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Twodogs
03-13-2010, 10:04 AM
Gone forever. That's how much (to date) has already been forgiven on the GM bailout. It's just gone, vaporized, never to be seen again.:(

And while I'm bitching, the interest on the National debt (the money we actually have to pay) went up 65% last year. Hope and change my ass.:mad:

Charles
03-13-2010, 10:10 AM
Gone forever. That's how much (to date) has already been forgiven on the GM bailout. It's just gone, vaporized, never to be seen again.:(

And while I'm bitching, the interest on the National debt (the money we actually have to pay) went up 65% last year. Hope and change my ass.:mad:

Not to worry, my friend, you won't have to pay it back...unless you have assets.

Chas

Twodogs
03-13-2010, 10:13 AM
Not to worry, my friend, you won't have to pay it back...unless you have assets.

Chas

Doh! :o

Charles
03-13-2010, 10:18 AM
Doh! :o

But if it saves but one tiny little chile, it's worth it.

That way, he can work his entire life to pick up the tab.

Chas

Twodogs
03-13-2010, 10:24 AM
But if it saves but one tiny little chile, it's worth it.

That way, he can work his entire life to pick up the tab.

Chas

Isn't that sad?:( Have you noticed the young people now that have finally figured out they are getting the bill. We have apprentices in our Local that have been brainwashed democrats, that are starting to ask questions. You should see how quickly the Union brass get enraged by just a single question or two.

Boreas
03-13-2010, 10:32 AM
Hey, TD, I didn't hear about this. Got a link? Not so hot if it's true.

John

Twodogs
03-13-2010, 10:37 AM
It's the Obama administrations number http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100311/748/tbs-u-s-bailout-watchdog-criticizes-trea.html

Sandy G
03-13-2010, 10:58 AM
Screw it. I'm 53, w/diabetes, hi-blood pressure, yadda, yadda, yadda. I've got maybe 20 years left, tops. After that, I could really give a shit one way or another. I didn't make the mess, I wasn't asked my opinion in the 1st place, & they won't ask me how to clean it up, 'cause the feckin' politicos KNOW everything, anyway. But it IS a shame our generation is gonna leave stuff in such a cocked-up mess for someone else to straighten out...

Boreas
03-13-2010, 11:04 AM
It's the Obama administrations number http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20100311/748/tbs-u-s-bailout-watchdog-criticizes-trea.html

Thanks for the link, TD. Just in the interest of clarity, this isn't part of Obama's auto bailout. It's part of Bush's bank bailout from 2008. It's GMAC, not GM.

Yes, the Obama Administration doubled down and gave GMAC more money but the decisions that are criticized in the piece were Bush's. If GMAC had been put in bankruptcy, the article argues, and allowed to restructure the company and its debt, they might well be healthier today.

I wonder whether it's still possible to do that.

John

noonereal
03-13-2010, 11:06 AM
Gone forever. That's how much (to date) has already been forgiven on the GM bailout. It's just gone, vaporized, never to be seen again.:(

And while I'm bitching, the interest on the National debt (the money we actually have to pay) went up 65% last year. Hope and change my ass.:mad:

Curious, what would the cost have been had GM gone under?

I mean I understand that your $21 would have been kept in your pocket but what would the ramifications of this have been?

Boreas
03-13-2010, 11:07 AM
Screw it. I'm 53, w/diabetes, hi-blood pressure, yadda, yadda, yadda. I've got maybe 20 years left, tops. After that, I could really give a shit one way or another. I didn't make the mess, I wasn't asked my opinion in the 1st place, & they won't ask me how to clean it up, 'cause the feckin' politicos KNOW everything, anyway. But it IS a shame our generation is gonna leave stuff in such a cocked-up mess for someone else to straighten out...

A lot of us are on the downslope, myself included, but we're going to leave behind a lot of folks we care about. It matters to me what sort of country and world we give them to live in.

John

finnbow
03-13-2010, 11:08 AM
And now the fools on the Hill are dicking around with GM's restructuring (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/12/AR2010031204081.html). If Roger Smith, Rick Wagoner, etc. failed to make GM profitable, just think what our politicos can do to screw it up even further.

Boreas
03-13-2010, 11:14 AM
We shoulda let GM fail. What's the dif? Other companies woulda filled the gap. You know, like Toyota!

John

merrylander
03-13-2010, 11:20 AM
We shoulda let GM fail. What's the dif? Other companies woulda filled the gap. You know, like Toyota!

John

Right, and as long as we all carry good life insurance our grandkids would be able to pay off the national debt and have change left over.

Toyota - moving forward - out of control:eek:

d-ray657
03-13-2010, 11:22 AM
Taking an optimistic outlook, we are about due for another exceptional generation. I at least have hope that this generation can break out of the MTV, ,mp3, fox, thc, mickey d, AIM - induced fog to achieve some great things. Who knows, this upcoming generation might come up with dependable alternative energy sources; might begin to adjust their lifestyles away from a mass-consumption-based economy; might place family values (in a more generic, non-Dan Quale defined meaning) ahead of corporate values; might find ways to bridge cultural/religious differences within and between nations; and might even solve the military industrial complex.

You know, if they do one or two of those things, they should qualify as a great generation.

Regards,

D-Ray

rickr15
03-13-2010, 11:31 AM
Taking an optimistic outlook, we are about due for another exceptional generation. I at least have hope that this generation can break out of the MTV, ,mp3, fox, thc, mickey d, AIM - induced fog to achieve some great things.

You know, if they do one or two of those things, they should qualify as a great generation.

Regards,

D-Ray

If they don't they will be toiling under new masters. All these bills are going to come due one day.

BlueStreak
03-13-2010, 12:03 PM
Isn't that sad?:( Have you noticed the young people now that have finally figured out they are getting the bill. We have apprentices in our Local that have been brainwashed democrats, that are starting to ask questions. You should see how quickly the Union brass get enraged by just a single question or two.

Yeah, damn those "Union brass" people. Maybe if we can kick the legs out from under those "lefty" pricks then we can bust your union and cut your pay down to what you're really worth, Jay? Isn't that what Boortz likes to say all of the time? "Your wages have been artificially inflated for all of these years." Just think of all the money the customers would save if you could be forced to work for less? Man, that sounds like a GREAT idea! I think I'll send a couple hundred bucks to the GOP?:D

Dave

merrylander
03-13-2010, 12:58 PM
Gergen had an article in the Parade mag today where he claimed that our rise to wealth after WW II was due to an educated generation. I would not argue that point with him but that generation got their education on the GI Bill for the most part. Back then the universities wanted to educate Americans, now they have jacked their prices through the roof and seem to only want foreign students. So where is this new educated generation to come from?

noonereal
03-13-2010, 01:58 PM
If they don't they will be toiling under new masters. All these bills are going to come due one day.

do you known another song?

JCricket
03-13-2010, 03:16 PM
Hitler did one thing right - he cancelled the debt of the german people.

There is a point when no one can fix it. Are we there yet?

Now it is just time before the walls crumble.

Will my kids fix it? Not likely. Will they rebuild it? Probably.

Will it be at great cost to life and limb? Hope not. Painful I am sure.

Charles
03-13-2010, 03:45 PM
Screw it. I'm 53, w/diabetes, hi-blood pressure, yadda, yadda, yadda. I've got maybe 20 years left, tops. After that, I could really give a shit one way or another. I didn't make the mess, I wasn't asked my opinion in the 1st place, & they won't ask me how to clean it up, 'cause the feckin' politicos KNOW everything, anyway. But it IS a shame our generation is gonna leave stuff in such a cocked-up mess for someone else to straighten out...

Funny, but I grew in the greatest nation in the history of mankind. Now we've went to shit and the hogs are eating us.

Somebody needs their ass kicked.

And like Sandy, I didn't make the rules.

Chas

Twodogs
03-13-2010, 07:40 PM
Curious, what would the cost have been had GM gone under?

I mean I understand that your $21 would have been kept in your pocket but what would the ramifications of this have been?

The capitalist system would have ratcheted, just like it's supposed to. Since when did it become a good idea to reward failure and punish success. Think about it man, that's fucked up.:(

Twodogs
03-13-2010, 07:41 PM
If they don't they will be toiling under new masters. All these bills are going to come due one day.

Amen brother.

Sandy G
03-13-2010, 08:20 PM
I think THAT'S what ticks me off about The Left more than anything else-Their incessant scolding. Look, Hoss, I was born in '57. I never kicked a black kid's ass, never kept him/her from attending school, was always respectful to women, elders of ANY color...I never polluted rivers, streams or the air-Well, except when I "Cut One", & that's not really by choice. Never prevented anyone from voting, If I knew of anyone who needed a ride to the polling place, if they asked, I'd be more than happy to take them. I never begrudged anyone who made more money than I did, & was always happy to see when somebody who wasn't as well off as I was "Do well". I suppose I can be held responsible for things that happened since 1975, when I turned 18, but to hold me responsible for enslaving blacks, disenfranchising women, Native Americans, polluting rivers & streams, all this other stuff- ESPECIALLY way before I was even born, or old enuff to KNOW about it- Fuggeddaboutit !!

Twodogs
03-13-2010, 08:40 PM
I think THAT'S what ticks me off about The Left more than anything else-Their incessant scolding. Look, Hoss, I was born in '57. I never kicked a black kid's ass, never kept him/her from attending school, was always respectful to women, elders of ANY color...I never polluted rivers, streams or the air-Well, except when I "Cut One", & that's not really by choice. Never prevented anyone from voting, If I knew of anyone who needed a ride to the polling place, if they asked, I'd be more than happy to take them. I never begrudged anyone who made more money than I did, & was always happy to see when somebody who wasn't as well off as I was "Do well". I suppose I can be held responsible for things that happened since 1975, when I turned 18, but to hold me responsible for enslaving blacks, disenfranchising women, Native Americans, polluting rivers & streams, all this other stuff- ESPECIALLY way before I was even born, or old enuff to KNOW about it- Fuggeddaboutit !!

POST OF THE YEAR!

That gave me goosebumps Sandy.

d-ray657
03-13-2010, 09:11 PM
I think THAT'S what ticks me off about The Left more than anything else-Their incessant scolding. Look, Hoss, I was born in '57. I never kicked a black kid's ass, never kept him/her from attending school, was always respectful to women, elders of ANY color...I never polluted rivers, streams or the air-Well, except when I "Cut One", & that's not really by choice. Never prevented anyone from voting, If I knew of anyone who needed a ride to the polling place, if they asked, I'd be more than happy to take them. I never begrudged anyone who made more money than I did, & was always happy to see when somebody who wasn't as well off as I was "Do well". I suppose I can be held responsible for things that happened since 1975, when I turned 18, but to hold me responsible for enslaving blacks, disenfranchising women, Native Americans, polluting rivers & streams, all this other stuff- ESPECIALLY way before I was even born, or old enuff to KNOW about it- Fuggeddaboutit !!

I follow what you are saying, but don't quite follow what you were responding to. Were you pointing to any particular "scolding" in this thread.

As far as the responsibility for polluting rivers and streams, we all probably buy products from companies that pollute. We are at least indirectly "benefiting" from the pollution to the extent that the price of the products does not reflect the cost of cleaning up the mess that the manufacturers make. Somewhere along the line, someone will bear that cost. In the long run, we will either pay higher prices because of the cost of cleanup, pay higher taxes because of the cost of cleanup, consume less, or sit back and watch people die from the effects of the pollution - or all of the above. It's not all your fault, it's not all my fault, but the problem belongs to all of us.

I am proud to be an American, but that doesn't mean that we can't make this place a cleaner, more just, more peaceful, and even a happier place to live. Just one of the many ways we can make that happen will be to conclude that we don't become happier by having more stuff.

Regards,

D-Ray

Sandy G
03-13-2010, 10:33 PM
Wasn't necessarily responding to ANY particular post or person. I'll "Man-up" to stuff I did, but don't go layin' a guilt trip on me for stuff I had no part in. The only thing any of us can change is stuff in the future-try to do better on a go-forward basis.

Charles
03-14-2010, 01:28 PM
I'll be the first to admit, I've got more "stuff" than I know what to do with. I need to work up the gumption to unload a bunch of it on Fleabay.

Chas

d-ray657
03-14-2010, 02:02 PM
Wasn't necessarily responding to ANY particular post or person. I'll "Man-up" to stuff I did, but don't go layin' a guilt trip on me for stuff I had no part in. The only thing any of us can change is stuff in the future-try to do better on a go-forward basis.

I think we agree. To a certain extent, that what my last trial was about - people wanting to hold the union responsible for things that had happened 20-30 years ago. Even with respect to the environmental issues, economic issues, etc., the only option we have is to try to do better on a go-forward basis.

How we go about it affected a lot by politics, but I think we agree that taking personal responsibility is a large part as well. For example, I already suggested that I need to take some personal responsibility by consuming less. Two desired results from that are to borrow less and save more (as well as creating less waste for the environment and more room behind my belt). While spending less doesn't exactly pump up the economy, saving more at least provides funds for investments.

Regards,

D-Ray

Charles
03-14-2010, 04:12 PM
I've noticed that no debt and money in the bank has a calming effect on me far in excess of a Blue Valium.

And I'm of no intention of taking on any debt unless I can calculate a way to turn a profit on it. Perhaps I should give up on construction and develop a different way to leverage myself.

Chas

BlueStreak
03-16-2010, 12:41 AM
I'll be the first to admit, I've got more "stuff" than I know what to do with. I need to work up the gumption to unload a bunch of it on Fleabay.

Chas

Last weekend, I went out and bought two more of those wire racks from Walmart to store more of my crap on. And I still have stuff just stacked on the floor.

Dave

d-ray657
03-16-2010, 01:50 AM
Last weekend, I went out and bought two more of those wire racks from Walmart to store more of my crap on. And I still have stuff just stacked on the floor.

Dave

I have so many projects that need some work, that I sometimes spend more time figuring out what gets priority than I do with the screwdriver and soldering iron. But as I make progress, more stuff will go out the door. I will eventually cut my stash in half - which is still more than twice as much as I can use, but It's always nice to have a little in reserve to be able to set a friend up with a system.

Regards,

D-Ray

BlueStreak
03-16-2010, 02:09 AM
Man, all of the sudden there was a rash of cool turntables on my local CL. B&O, ReVox, Yamaha....... I went nuts and bought them all. Now I have a rack full of turntables, but I can only use one at a time, until I get that HK preamp working...........................

Oh, my head!

Dave

d-ray657
03-16-2010, 02:15 AM
Man, all of the sudden there was a rash of cool turntables on my local CL. B&O, ReVox, Yamaha....... I went nuts and bought them all. Now I have a rack full of turntables, but I can only use one at a time, until I get that HK preamp working...........................

Oh, my head!

Dave

Dad-gummed enablers everywhere aren't there. I picked up a Sony PS X5, put a Grado Silver on it - now I'm just digging it.

You listened to your birthday present yet?

Regards,

D-Ray

Charles
03-17-2010, 08:07 PM
Last weekend, I went out and bought two more of those wire racks from Walmart to store more of my crap on. And I still have stuff just stacked on the floor.

Dave

I know what you mean. A coupe of years back I couldn't take it any more. Sold maybe six turntables, couple of valve amps, some speakers, some misc. misc., gave some stuff away, and I've still got more stuff than I can deal with.

A lot of it is pretty nice, and I like it, but it's gotta go. Just don't use it.

Chas

Charles
03-17-2010, 08:12 PM
Dad-gummed enablers everywhere aren't there. I picked up a Sony PS X5, put a Grado Silver on it - now I'm just digging it.

You listened to your birthday present yet?

Regards,

D-Ray

You're a Grado fan? I sold all of mine after I started using a Super 40.

I just damn near bought a set of Vandersteen's a month ago, but common sense prevailed.

Chas

d-ray657
03-17-2010, 08:32 PM
Tell me about the Super 40.

Regards,

D-Ray

Sandy G
03-17-2010, 08:33 PM
Boo Hoo Hoo...All I gots is a POS RCA/Ratshak tinkertoy table I've had for years...Was always gonna score an Empire for chickenfeed, but never did...I HAD a B&O tangental one & the Lightning got it in Y2K...Before that I had a Philips 312 that I shoulda kept, it got old, & I wanted sumpin' new, so I sprung for the B&O...My system ain't nothin' to what some of 'em have, but it ain't bad, neither...A Yammy RX-V1, 4 WSC-1As, H/K recordable CD deck, Yammy dual cassette, & one of them Kenwood audio scope thingies I got at The Fest in 206. I THINK I gave the 312 to Celt years ago, that was BS-Before Stroke, & some things are hazy... (grin)

Charles
03-17-2010, 10:15 PM
Tell me about the Super 40.

Regards,

D-Ray

Lively, bright, and detailed. Will track a dinner plate, has a Fritz Geiger stylus. Biggest downside is your records have to be clean or the stylus will dig out a bunch of crud and sound like hell. A vacuum is almost a necessity. The 2M Blue is almost as good and isn't as particular about perfectly clean LP's.

If you want to borrow one, send me a PM. All I ask is don't break it and pay shipping back. I'll even mount your choice on a headshell so you don't have to worry so much about breaking it.

It's the least I can do for a lib.

Chas

d-ray657
03-18-2010, 01:32 AM
Boo Hoo Hoo...All I gots is a POS RCA/Ratshak tinkertoy table I've had for years...Was always gonna score an Empire for chickenfeed, but never did...I HAD a B&O tangental one & the Lightning got it in Y2K...Before that I had a Philips 312 that I shoulda kept, it got old, & I wanted sumpin' new, so I sprung for the B&O...My system ain't nothin' to what some of 'em have, but it ain't bad, neither...A Yammy RX-V1, 4 WSC-1As, H/K recordable CD deck, Yammy dual cassette, & one of them Kenwood audio scope thingies I got at The Fest in 206. I THINK I gave the 312 to Celt years ago, that was BS-Before Stroke, & some things are hazy... (grin)

I'm still enough of a newb at audio that I'm not past experimenting, but I think I've found something pretty nice in the Sony. I paid ten bucks for it because it had no feet and no headshell/cart. I spent about ten bucks on some spiked feet until I can find some originals. The Grado Silver came off of a TT I paid 20 bucks for. All told, then I have forty bucks in it. Don't think I would take 300 for it right now, it just sounds so good.

If I get snobbish about audio, it's based on how little I paid to get it to sound good, but I'm getting past that and just trying to enjoy the best I can afford, which means standing pat for now.

Regards,

D-Ray

merrylander
03-18-2010, 07:52 AM
As John noted it was GMAC not GM, and in this morning's Post their (GM's) CFO is predicting that GM will make a profit this year if things keep going the way they have been. If so, all things being equal, the could make an IPO next year and repay the government.

I would suggest that y'all find a copy of the latest Atlantic Monthly, it would cheer some and irritate others because the articles all say Obama was right, and the bailout was cheap at twice the price.

BlueStreak
03-18-2010, 09:54 AM
You're a Grado fan? I sold all of mine after I started using a Super 40.

I just damn near bought a set of Vandersteen's a month ago, but common sense prevailed.

Chas


Screw common sense, you should have picked up those Vandies.

Dave

BlueStreak
03-18-2010, 10:02 AM
As John noted it was GMAC not GM, and in this morning's Post their (GM's) CFO is predicting that GM will make a profit this year if things keep going the way they have been. If so, all things being equal, the could make an IPO next year and repay the government.

I would suggest that y'all find a copy of the latest Atlantic Monthly, it would cheer some and irritate others because the articles all say Obama was right, and the bailout was cheap at twice the price.


Yeah, well.....The Altlantic Monthly is a Liberal Rag.:rolleyes:

There are no good signs, even those that appear good, really aren't. And if anything should appear to be getting better, it really aint it's just a build up to the final crash and utter chaos and destruction. And if the crash and destruction doesn't happen, then we'll make one up. And if no one buys that, then, then, then..................we'll just pout and blame it all on the queers and Al Gore!:rolleyes:

Regards,
Dave

Charles
03-18-2010, 02:21 PM
Screw common sense, you should have picked up those Vandies.

Dave

They're still there, 2CE's I think with the stands and easy driving distance.

Craigslist, can audition, wants $550. Bet he would take five. Think it's worth it?

Looks to me that if they're in good condition and I could locate some factory cartons, they would go for maybe seven or a bit more on Audiogon.

Chas

d-ray657
03-18-2010, 02:38 PM
They're still there, 2CE's I think with the stands and easy driving distance.

Craigslist, can audition, wants $550. Bet he would take five. Think it's worth it?

Looks to me that if they're in good condition and I could locate some factory cartons, they would go for maybe seven or a bit more on Audiogon.

Chas

Flipper.

Regards,

D-Ray

Charles
03-18-2010, 02:42 PM
Flipper.

Regards,

D-Ray

Eek, eek, eek!!!

Chas