Keynes Still

[ebacon]

When I recall Keynes I have a romantic memory that he battled with his adversary over this common ground: The good of the people comes first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOEKannkLXM&t=1288s

[BlueStreak]

I only know enough German to know they're discussing the possible end of Capitalism, the rise of "Neoliberalism" and it possible consequences.

[ebacon]

I only know enough German to know they're discussing the possible end of Capitalism, the rise of "Neoliberalism" and it possible consequences.

I am in the same boat. It is interesting that you also picked up on "neoliberalism". From the little I understood it seemed that the speaker's neoliberalism is our neoconservatism. Wherever that hair gets split, I don't know. But the contrast in terms reminded me of how narrow the difference is between Keynsian and Austrian School economists as they battle.

IMO the difference is where the distortion is. In the US the money comes first. Outside the US the people come first. In other words Keynsians and Austrians have different debates depending on their venue.

I dunno. Still trying to figure this stuff out and hopefully get back to having fun with it.

[nailer]

I am in the same boat. It is interesting that you also picked up on "neoliberalism". From the little I understood it seemed that the speaker's neoliberalism is our neoconservatism. Wherever that hair gets split, I don't know. But the contrast in terms reminded me of how narrow the difference is between Keynsian and Austrian School economists as they battle.

IMO the difference is where the distortion is. In the US the money comes first. Outside the US the people come first. In other words Keynsians and Austrians have different debates depending on their venue.

I dunno. Still trying to figure this stuff out and hopefully get back to having fun with it.

All over the world wealth comes first, if you have it. Money is more important here than elsewhere because it's significantly easier to become wealthy here and the more money you make the better chance you have to become wealthy. In addition, Euro wealth shares more than US wealth because their working class is more likely to revolt than ours.

Frieden's Global Capitalism: Its Fall and Rise in the Twentieth Century was a fun read.

[ebacon]

All over the world wealth comes first, if you have it. Money is more important here than elsewhere because it's significantly easier to become wealthy here and the more money you make the better chance you have to become wealthy. In addition, Euro wealth shares than US wealth because their working class is more likely to revolt than ours.

Frieden's Global Capitalism: Its Fall and Rise in the Twentieth Century was a fun read.

Understood. The power of greed is an ongoing debate.

Where my mind locked up a year or two ago was in a pinhead sized space. Namely, how can we Americans persuade our own that we have enough? It is hard to be at the front of the line and put the brakes on the people behind you.

[nailer]

Understood. The power of greed is an ongoing debate.

Where my mind locked up a year or two ago was in a pinhead sized space. Namely, how can we Americans persuade our own that we have enough? It is hard to be at the front of the line and put the brakes on the people behind you.

Eliminating "you can never have enough ______" from our lexicon would be a good start. The problem with this though is that our genetic coding knows that "you can never have enough food" is all to true.

[donquixote99]

All over the world wealth comes first, if you have it. Money is more important here than elsewhere because it's significantly easier to become wealthy here and the more money you make the better chance you have to become wealthy. In addition, Euro wealth shares more than US wealth because their working class is more likely to revolt than ours.

Frieden's Global Capitalism: Its Fall and Rise in the Twentieth Century was a fun read.

Also, with not so much (historically) of an inherited class structure, the wealthy were our nobility. Another reason why wealth matters most in our culture. That said, the class has been getting more rigid here.

[nailer]

We are maturing culturally. I think class structure is innately human, especially when civilized. Also, the downward shift of our have/have not line resulting from Globalization and the continueing downward pressure on that line are further rigidifying our class structure. The haves are holding on more tightly to their actual and perceived wealth.

America doesn't have, nor due we need, a nobility. The rule of law has worked pretty well here.

[Dondilion]

That said, the class has been getting more rigid here.

How so?

[nailer]

How so?

It's getting harder to move up a class due to the downward pressure on our have/have not line. There is a corresponding upward pressure on some other nations have/have not line. Newton has a say in economics too. The 90's Globalization downward shift transformed and significantly reduced our middle class. A clear sign of this is how much more expensive in real terms a good college education is.

[BlueStreak]

Understood. The power of greed is an ongoing debate.

Where my mind locked up a year or two ago was in a pinhead sized space. Namely, how can we Americans persuade our own that we have enough? It is hard to be at the front of the line and put the brakes on the people behind you.

Eliminating "you can never have enough ______" from our lexicon would be a good start. The problem with this though is that our genetic coding knows that "you can never have enough food" is all to true.

Also, with not so much (historically) of an inherited class structure, the wealthy were our nobility. Another reason why wealth matters most in our culture. That said, the class has been getting more rigid here.

In America we have come to equate material wealth with righteousness. It has even become part of our religious culture. "Prosperity Gospel" relentlessly advances the notion that God rewards the righteous with earthly riches.

[BlueStreak]

We are maturing culturally. I think class structure is innately human, especially when civilized. Also, the downward shift of our have/have not line resulting from Globalization and the continueing downward pressure on that line are further rigidifying our class structure. The haves are holding on more tightly to their actual and perceived wealth.

America doesn't have, nor due we need, a nobility. The rule of law has worked pretty well here.

Excellent post, and I concur.

[Dondilion]

Frieden's Global Capitalism: Its Fall and Rise in the Twentieth Century was a fun read.

Thanks for the heads up. I will order a copy.

I have a deep interest in the globalist phenomena.

In the last 50 years especially globalism has worked havoc on the American middle. It is disheartening to observe how totally international the top has become.

[icenine]

Thanks for the heads up. I will order a copy.

I have a deep interest in the globalist phenomena.

In the last 50 years especially globalism has worked havoc on the American middle. It is disheartening to observe how totally international the top has become.

If you have read any amount of literature you will understand the upper classes have long had more in common with each other across international boundaries than with those within their own countries. That is why Tolstoy's War and Peace has French dialog in it...the rich families spoke French not Russian.

You sort of sound like an old man that doesn't like how the world is changing.
We are all going to die, and the world will go on less white, less Christian, less homogenous...but that is ok. Get over it.

[Dondilion]

If you have read any amount of literature you will understand the upper classes have long had more in common with each other across international boundaries than with those within their own countries. That is why Tolstoy's War and Peace has French dialog in it...the rich families spoke French not Russian.

You sort of sound like an old man that doesn't like how the world is changing.
We are all going to die, and the world will go on less white, less Christian, less homogenous...but that is ok. Get over it.

Not OK if Patriotism, National Identity and Paying Dues are pushed as very valuable traits and then conveniently discarded. Moreover my feelings are not based on raced or ethnicity.

Black Americans suffer too from rampant globalism. British workers find themselves suddenly under pressure from the massive influx of Polish, Lithuanian workers; wagers are pushed down, British jobs are advertised in Poland and Polish workers are given preference and people who have not paid into the safety nets are allotted benefits.

Hence the pressure is on for Brexit. The British prime minister recently made attempt to renegotiate with the EU for a base period for the payment of benefits to new immigrants.

I suspect that opening of Germany to over a million people in a short space of time, despite being largely not vetted males and coming from savage conflict zones, has more to do with economic global instincts that humanitarian ones.
Thus the rough shod over consensus and the imposition of dictates.

[nailer]

If you have read any amount of literature you will understand the upper classes have long had more in common with each other across international boundaries than with those within their own countries. That is why Tolstoy's War and Peace has French dialog in it...the rich families spoke French not Russian.

You don't need to read literature, let alone understand it, to know that. One of the Hornblower novels takes place on the northern Russian coastline.

[nailer]

I suspect that opening of Germany to over a million people in a short space of time, despite being largely not vetted males and coming from savage conflict zones, has more to do with economic global instincts that humanitarian ones.
Thus the rough shod over consensus and the imposition of dictates.

The German people are not behind the refugee program? I'm thinking German Christian guilt is a driver in Germany accepting the refugees. As a nation they've a lot. However I can see how those not yet 40 would not be feeling near as guilty.

[ebacon]

In America we have come to equate material wealth with righteousness. It has even become part of our religious culture. "Prosperity Gospel" relentlessly advances the notion that God rewards the righteous with earthly riches.

This, and the three posts cited in its source, are roots of my anxiousness in discussing politics online anymore. It seems that the fight can bet bigger by adding people, but it can't get more focused.

In old Comcast advertising terms, the value of wealth evangelism has reached the end of the internet. Now is the time admit that we have enough or fight for more. I am firm footed in the enough camp.

At the same time I am convinced that we have at least a century of honest work ahead of us with cleaning up after our wealth party. Europeans have done it a few times. We have done it once before, but never with so many machines on each side. I think the most honorable way to do it is by unwinding our overwound clockspring on our own and giving teaching credit to our ancestors overseas.