Shootings In Baton Rouge, La.

[bobabode]

Two maybe three police officers killed in Baton Rouge.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/17/baton-rouge-mayors-office-at-least-2-officers-fatally-shot/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_mm-batonrouge-1113am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

[Wasillaguy]

I'm sure Mr. Half White Priviledge will honor these deaths by giving another racism lecture.

Every time a conservative suggests shrinking government, the libs immediately take it to the extreme, claiming you're talking about no government, and anarchy. Now here they are, from the top down, propping up those who are intent on marginalizing and threatening the very people who keep anarchy at bay.
Also, they tend to think every little problem in this country needs a societal solution from Washington DC, but in the case of cops they go straight to the worker rather than train their anger on the power people who dictate how the cops do their job.

[CarlV]

I'm sure Mr. Half White Priviledge will honor these deaths by giving another racism lecture.

Every time a conservative suggests shrinking government, the libs immediately take it to the extreme, claiming you're talking about no government, and anarchy. Now here they are, from the top down, propping up those who are intent on marginalizing and threatening the very people who keep anarchy at bay.
Also, they tend to think every little problem in this country needs a societal solution from Washington DC, but in the case of cops they go straight to the worker rather than train their anger on the power people who dictate how the cops do their job.

All that caused the retribution by the military gun rah rah in Dallas killed the cops?

Carl

[CarlV]

By Jon Ward - The Washington Times - Sunday, October 19, 2008

BIG GOVERNMENT SERIES: First of three parts

George W. Bush rode into Washington almost eight years ago astride the horse of smaller government. He will leave it this winter having overseen the biggest federal budget expansion since Franklin Delano Roosevelt seven decades ago.

Not since World War II, when the nation mobilized to fight a global war against fascism and recover from the Great Depression, has government spending played as large a role in the economy as it does today.

This time, it is a rapid mobilization against another global enemy — Islamist terrorism — that lies behind much of the growth. But rising spending on discretionary domestic programs has also played its part.

“We have now presided over the largest increase in the size of government since the Great Society,” said Sen. John McCain, the Republican candidate vying to replace Mr. Bush in the White House, during the first presidential debate.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/19/big-government-gets-bigger/

Big government belongs to the goppers. Simply repeating lies over and over won't make things true.


Carl

[CarlV]

Anyway, RIP innocent to the innocent officers, must be another proud bloodlust day for the NRA.


Carl

[finnbow]

Anyway, RIP innocent to the innocent officers, must be another proud blooidlust day for the NRA.

Carl

If the NRA and the GOP wanted to be intellectually honest/consistent, they'd applaud these murders as it represents citizens using their 2nd Amendment rights against an oppressive government.

[CarlV]

I wonder what part of No Justice No Peace these right wingers do not understand? Maybe we can get Nutandyahoo to draw some red lines.


Carl

[donquixote99]

We all need to keep our heads or we could be in for a bunch more of this.

[Pio1980]

The Fed's place in this is a universal accountable standard of professional training and professional practice. Letting the local frat boys wing it just isn't cutting it.

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[Wasillaguy]

If the NRA and the GOP wanted to be intellectually honest/consistent, they'd applaud these murders as it represents citizens using their 2nd Amendment rights against an oppressive government.

If you want to go after the government, then go after the government. I'm sure many in the GOP would join you. These cops are pawns. Blue collar guys trying to keep communities safe and feed their family.

[finnbow]

If you want to go after the government, then go after the government. I'm sure many in the GOP would join you. These cops are pawns. Blue collar guys trying to keep communities safe and feed their family.

I understand that completely. However, if wingnuts (such as Cliven Bundy as his crew of miscreants) were to have opened fire, they too would have opened fire on cops or Federal agents, also blue collar guys also trying to keep their communities safe and feed their families. The NRA and the GOP can't sell the 2nd Amendment as being a solution to tyranny while decrying people using guns as they prescribe.

"The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution isn't for just protecting hunting rights, and it's not only to safeguard your right to target practice. It is a Constitutional right to protect your children, your family, your home, our lives, and to serve as the ultimate check against governmental tyranny -- for the protection of liberty."

- Ted Cruz

[sheltiedave]

If you want to go after the government, then go after the government. I'm sure many in the GOP would join you. These cops are pawns. Blue collar guys trying to keep communities safe and feed their family.

Unfortunately for the cops, to many people they are the first, and often the only branch of government, they interact with outside of court. As the leading edge, they are going to get hammered.

I could be like Trump, and gloat about these shooting murders, but I won't. I did see two years ago this would be coming soon, and now it has arrived. For some people who have little to lose, revolution is not something to be feared, or delayed. If it had happened with white ranchers rather than black shooters, it would have been welcomed in a more widespread community.

[nailer]

If the NRA and the GOP wanted to be intellectually honest/consistent, they'd applaud these murders as it represents citizens using their 2nd Amendment rights against an oppressive government.

Only if they see their government as an oppressive tyrant. They obviously don't. Do you?

[finnbow]

Only if they see their government as an oppressive tyrant. They obviously don't. Do you?

If cops out west were using excessive force and shooting wingnut ranchers in their pickup trucks during traffic stops, I can only surmise that the wingnuts would find this oppressive.

[nailer]

We all need to keep our heads or we could be in for a bunch more of this.

Too late. This schism's fault is too deep/wide. A product of American Fascism.

[Pio1980]

Ted is historically FOS on the last point and on shaky ground with the rest as to 2nd Amendment literacy, as none of that is mentioned.
FWIW, I'd be ok with a rewrite of the 2nd based on Heller and home protection, making provisions for hunting/game management and sport with nonmilitary class weaponry.

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[Wasillaguy]

I understand that completely. However, if wingnuts (such as Cliven Bundy as his crew of miscreants) were to have opened fire, they too would have opened fire on cops or Federal agents, also blue collar guys also trying to keep their communities safe and feed their families.

That's a lot of assumption you've piled up behind an "if".
I disagree that Bundy or any other nut would get supporting rhetoric from the CinC, or the media, or any sizable chunk of the population had they killed cops or agents.

[nailer]

If cops out west were using excessive force and shooting wingnut ranchers in their pickup trucks during traffic stops, I can only surmise that the wingnuts would find this oppressive.

Non responsive. You wrote GOP and NRA, not some small splinter group.

[Boreas]

We all need to keep our heads or we could be in for a bunch more of this.

I doubt there's much we can do to prevent it. The black community has been telling the rest of us about this for more than a century and we did nothing, would't even acknowledge the problem. Now the rest of us have seen the truth of this repeatedly and with our own eyes and still do nothing, some of us still refusing to acknowledge the problem or even blame it on the blacks themselves. Our black brothers and sisters have had enough and the fact that some of them have resorted to violence and murder is understandable. It won't be over any time soon. The chickens have come home to roost.

[Boreas]

The Fed's place in this is a universal accountable standard of professional training and professional practice. Letting the local frat boys wing it just isn't cutting it.

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Frat boys and returning vets with combat training and PTSD.

[Wasillaguy]

And if I remember correctly, fed agents had sniper rifles trained on the ranchers when they returned the gesture. I'm not hearing reports in any of these cases that the shooter's life was endangered when they assassinated these cops.

[CarlV]

If cops out west were using excessive force and shooting wingnut ranchers in their pickup trucks during traffic stops, I can only surmise that the wingnuts would find this oppressive.

Out west, not a wingnut rancher. :mad:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/dec/04/san-francisco-police-shooting-man-knife-video


Carl

[Pio1980]

And if I remember correctly, fed agents had sniper rifles trained on the ranchers when they returned the gesture. I'm not hearing reports in any of these cases that the shooter's life was endangered when they assassinated these cops.

Open carry, it's "supposed" to be a Constitutionally protected right, until someone shoots.

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[nailer]

The Constitution doesn't address open carry. It's a decision for each state's legislature or local governments if the legislature hasn't addressed it. FWIW, I've no desire to tote a long arm around town or strap a pistol to my hip.

[Boreas]

Out west, not a wingnut rancher. :mad:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/dec/04/san-francisco-police-shooting-man-knife-video


Carl

Not just in San Francisco. This was in my back yard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Andy_Lopez

[CarlV]

I remember that well. Then there was the time BART cops pull a guy off a train, not even resisting throw him face down and the cop, who proven to have an attitude from a previous incident, says he pulled his gun out by mistake when he shot the non-resisting guy who was face down, in the back.

Carl

BTW, I know he was drunk and disorderly and had a record, but that shouldn't be a death sentence

[CarlV]

Another BTW, I always have wondered if Oscar Grant was white if the BART cops would have just cuffed him when they took him off the train rather than roughing him up throwing him face down, and then the murder.


Carl

[Pio1980]

The Constitution doesn't address open carry. It's a decision for each state's legislature or local governments if the legislature hasn't addressed it. FWIW, I've no desire to tote a long arm around town or strap a pistol to my hip.

Quite correct, emphasis on "supposed" and not specified.
A lot is assumed re "infringed".
Is not having the right to openly carry a suitcase nuke an infringement? Common sense goes wanting in discussions on where the 2nd applies in our world today.

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[Boreas]

I remember that well. Then there was the time BART cops pull a guy off a train, not even resisting throw him face down and the cop, who proven to have an attitude from a previous incident, says he pulled his gun out by mistake when he shot the non-resisting guy who was face down, in the back.

Carl

BTW, I know he was drunk and disorderly and had a record, but that shouldn't be a death sentence

Yup. Oscar Grant, killed by Johannes Mehserle at the Fruitvale BART station. Says he meant to grab his TASER which he was wearing on the side opposite his service weapon. Sure he did.

Mesherle was convicted of involuntary manslaughter, sentenced to 2 years and released after serving 11 months.

[Boreas]

Another BTW, I always have wondered if Oscar Grant was white if the BART cops would have just cuffed him when they took him off the train rather than roughing him up throwing him face down, and then the murder.


Carl

I think you know the answer to that one.

[Pio1980]

Us white guys can assume a certain level of trust with law enforcement, speed traps notwithstanding.
Others, including women, not so much.
This violent series of pushback reaction sadly doesn't suprize me.

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[CarlV]

A fine GOP nominee, has the deny and deflect down really well.

"We grieve for the officers killed in Baton Rouge today. How many law enforcement and people have to die because of a lack of leadership in our country?" Trump, the party's presumptive presidential nominee posted on Facebook. "We demand law and order."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-idUSKCN0ZX0RO?mod=related&channelName=domesticNews


Carl

[CarlV]

I think you know the answer to that one.

Sadly I do.


Carl

[donquixote99]

I doubt there's much we can do to prevent it. The black community has been telling the rest of us about this for more than a century and we did nothing, would't even acknowledge the problem. Now the rest of us have seen the truth of this repeatedly and with our own eyes and still do nothing, some of us still refusing to acknowledge the problem or even blame it on the blacks themselves. Our black brothers and sisters have had enough and the fact that some of them have resorted to violence and murder is understandable. It won't be over any time soon. The chickens have come home to roost.

You speak as if the situation of blacks reacting by shooting cops is stable, that it could go on for a while without further things happening. It is not. There would be reactions, and reactions to the reactions, and etc. This could spiral into really bad stuff.

The time for a 'step back' is right now. Keep cool heads, don't react.

[Boreas]

You speak as if the situation of blacks reacting by shooting cops is stable, that it could go on for a while without further things happening. It is not. There would be reactions, and reactions to the reactions, and etc. This could spiral into really bad stuff.

The time for a 'step back' is right now. Keep cool heads, don't react.

Channeling nailer here: no, I'm not and yes, it will.

And the cops will react in the only way they know.

[Pio1980]

You speak as if the situation of blacks reacting by shooting cops is stable, that it could go on for a while without further things happening. It is not. There would be reactions, and reactions to the reactions, and etc. This could spiral into really bad stuff.

The time for a 'step back' is right now. Keep cool heads, don't react.

I agree, but those needing to hear and heed this likely aren't listening.

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[icenine]

If you want to go after the government, then go after the government. I'm sure many in the GOP would join you. These cops are pawns. Blue collar guys trying to keep communities safe and feed their family.

Open carry for assault weapons is not helping the police obviously.

[icenine]

Too late. This schism's fault is too deep/wide. A product of American Fascism.

How can America be fascist if you can buy an assault weapon and attack whoever you want to? Seems like liberty taken to the extreme if you ask me.

[Pio1980]

Open carry for assault weapons is not helping the police obviously.

Sure, ask them.

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[icenine]

Non responsive. You wrote GOP and NRA, not some small splinter group.

I think their are elements of both the GOP and the NRA that see our government as oppressive so what is your point with Finnbow?

[Pio1980]

How can America be fascist if you can buy an assault weapon and attack whoever you want to? Seems like liberty taken to the extreme if you ask me.

More like armed anarchy.

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[donquixote99]

How can America be fascist if you can buy an assault weapon and attack whoever you want to? Seems like liberty taken to the extreme if you ask me.

As long as the elite is protected, and they are, they don't care. Civilian arms pose no risk to them.

[icenine]

Armed anarchy.

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America is hardly a fascist society.

[nailer]

Channeling nailer here: no, I'm not and yes, it will.

And the cops will react in the only way they know.

One of your most coherent posts ever!

[icenine]

As long as the elite is protected, and they are, they don't care. Civilian arms pose no risk to them.

In a Walmart America the elite can be seen as guys with pensions and good jobs like you and me...and the police fall in that category also.

[donquixote99]

America is hardly a fascist society.

It's been getting more fascist, and I fear now we are within days of it getting a LOT more fascist.

BTW, anyone recall that I said a long time ago the political violence is what would hand the election to Trump?

[Boreas]

How can America be fascist if you can buy an assault weapon and attack whoever you want to? Seems like liberty taken to the extreme if you ask me.

You clearly have a poor understanding of fascism and having thousands or even millions of lightly armed civilians (by military standards) running around screaming "Freedom!" is no threat to the government. Our ability to "protect ourselves from tyranny" is completely illusory deigned to keep the yobs content.

[nailer]

How can America be fascist if you can buy an assault weapon and attack whoever you want to? Seems like liberty taken to the extreme if you ask me.

I didn't say it was. It's the red/blue schism over this and a few other overly divisive issues that are products of American Fascism.

[Pio1980]

You clearly have a poor understanding of fascism and having thousands or even millions of lightly armed civilians (by military standards) running around screaming "Freedom!" is no threat to the government. Our ability to "protect ourselves from tyranny" is completely illusory deigned to keep the yobs content.

The threat of arms is mainly to ourselves by ourselves.

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[Boreas]

I didn't say it was. It's the red/blue schism over this and a few other overly divisive issues that are products of American Fascism.

Now you are.

[nailer]

As long as the elite is protected, and they are, they don't care. Civilian arms pose no risk to them.

QFT and neither will the coming civil war amongst the well armed have-nots. (I hope this doesn't come to be.)

Law and order are everywhere - the law and order which protect the established hierarchy. H. Marcuse

[nailer]

Now you are.

No I'm not because we're not there yet. Hope springs eternal.

[Boreas]

No I'm not because we're not there yet. Hope springs eternal.

If the Left/Right divide exists, and it does, and if it and other things come to us via American fascism as you maintain, then it follows that American fascism is here already and in a position to influence society.

[donquixote99]

QFT and neither will the coming civil war amongst the well armed have-nots. (I hope this doesn't come to be.)

Law and order are everywhere - the law and order which protect the established hierarchy. H. Marcuse

Anything close to a civil war will disrupt business, and the elite will care about that. The guard will be mobilized.

[nailer]

Only to contain it. In addition, some disruption to business will be accepted as a means to an end.

[Boreas]

Anything close to a civil war will disrupt business, and the elite will care about that. The guard will be mobilized.

Race war. How many heavily armed "patriots" do you suppose there are who subscribe to the ideas expressed by Joe Walsh, a former US Congressman from a blue state? How many are now planning reprisals against the BLM Protesters whom people like Walsh blame for the killing of the Dallas and Baton Rouge police officers? It'll be the good old "kill one of us and we kill ten of you" thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/07/08/former-congressman-promises-war-warns-obama-to-watch-out-after-dallas-shootings/

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/23592-attacks-on-police-national-conspiracy

[donquixote99]

That's the sort of obvious bad sceneario.

[Boreas]

That's the sort of obvious bad sceneario.

It will happen. The only question is on what scale will it occur.

[Boreas]

Another possibility, if a little far fetched, is a massacre at one or both of the two political conventions. There will be BLM protests at both. I can envision this as a perfect twofer for white supremacist. They'd get to kill some blacks and at the same time take a swipe at ZOG.

[bobabode]

"One of the slain officers was identified by his family as Montrell L. Jackson, an officer in Baton Rouge since June 2006, according to city records.

In the days after the killing of Alton B. Sterling, as well as the police deaths in Dallas, Officer Jackson used his Facebook page to speak out about his own experiences patrolling Baton Rouge.

“I’m tired physically and emotionally,” he wrote on July 8, the morning after the ambush in Dallas. Officer Jackson sometimes posted pictures on Facebook in support of other departments after officers died in the line of duty.

He added, “I swear to God I love this city, but I wonder if this city loves me. In uniform, I get nasty hateful looks, and out of uniform some consider me a threat. I’ve experienced so much in my short life and these last 3 days have tested me to the core.”

Referring to Baton Rouge, he said, “This city MUST and WILL get better. I’m working in these streets so any protesters, officers, friends, family or whoever, if you see me and need a hug or want to say a prayer. I got you.”" NYTimes
http://www.nytimes.com/live/police-shooting-in-baton-rouge/

Rest in Peace and condolences to his family, friends and co-workers. :(

[Pio1980]

Race war. How many heavily armed "patriots" do you suppose there are who subscribe to the ideas expressed by Joe Walsh, a former US Congressman from a blue state? How many are now planning reprisals against the BLM Protesters whom people like Walsh blame for the killing of the Dallas and Baton Rouge police officers? It'll be the good old "kill one of us and we kill ten of you" thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/07/08/former-congressman-promises-war-warns-obama-to-watch-out-after-dallas-shootings/

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/23592-attacks-on-police-national-conspiracy

Fringe nut job conspiracy theory bullshit.

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[Boreas]

Fringe nut job conspiracy theory bullshit.

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Absolutely but we're a country chock full of fringe nut job conspiracy theorists.

[Oerets]

Absolutely but we're a country chock full of fringe nut job conspiracy theorists.

Soon to have their Candidate named in Cleveland.:D



Barney

[HarmanKardon]

"One of the slain officers was identified by his family as Montrell L. Jackson, an officer in Baton Rouge since June 2006, according to city records.

In the days after the killing of Alton B. Sterling, as well as the police deaths in Dallas, Officer Jackson used his Facebook page to speak out about his own experiences patrolling Baton Rouge.

“I’m tired physically and emotionally,” he wrote on July 8, the morning after the ambush in Dallas. Officer Jackson sometimes posted pictures on Facebook in support of other departments after officers died in the line of duty.

He added, “I swear to God I love this city, but I wonder if this city loves me. In uniform, I get nasty hateful looks, and out of uniform some consider me a threat. I’ve experienced so much in my short life and these last 3 days have tested me to the core.”

Referring to Baton Rouge, he said, “This city MUST and WILL get better. I’m working in these streets so any protesters, officers, friends, family or whoever, if you see me and need a hug or want to say a prayer. I got you.”" NYTimes
http://www.nytimes.com/live/police-shooting-in-baton-rouge/

Rest in Peace and condolences to his family, friends and co-workers. :(

What a marvellous person, what a wonderful man. He was amongst the best paranoid America still has to offer. Rest in peace strange friend...

[whell]

Race war. How many heavily armed "patriots" do you suppose there are who subscribe to the ideas expressed by Joe Walsh, a former US Congressman from a blue state? How many are now planning reprisals against the BLM Protesters whom people like Walsh blame for the killing of the Dallas and Baton Rouge police officers? It'll be the good old "kill one of us and we kill ten of you" thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/07/08/former-congressman-promises-war-warns-obama-to-watch-out-after-dallas-shootings/

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/23592-attacks-on-police-national-conspiracy

What an interesting little world you live in.

On one hand, a dirtbag ex congressman posts an ill-advised comment on Twitter, and you're concerned about how many folks might be planning reprisals against BLM.

On the other, you actually have BLM taking to the news, internet, etc. and ginning up hatred against cops, you've got a President that has expressed solidarity with the BLM folks, and you've got several actual, real incidents that have involved cop killings or attempted cop killings.

What do you choose to focus on? The Twitter post. :rolleyes:

[Boreas]

What an interesting little world you live in.

On one hand, a dirtbag ex congressman posts an ill-advised comment on Twitter, and you're concerned about how many folks might be planning reprisals against BLM.

On the other, you actually have BLM taking to the news, internet, etc. and ginning up hatred against cops, you've got a President that has expressed solidarity with the BLM folks, and you've got several actual, real incidents that have involved cop killings or attempted cop killings.

What do you choose to focus on? The Twitter post. :rolleyes:

"Ill advised"? Why not call it what it is?

Can you quote for me any statement from BLM as vile as that from Walsh? Can you find a statement from the President calling for violence against the police?

[catswiththum]

Well, from my perspective, the vast majority of us here in the USA are not either A: employed by the media and paid to hunt down any alarming, frightening, race baiting story available - and if there isn't one make one up, or B: spending the majority of our time reading/watching the 90% tripe manufactured by said media and arguing about it on an internet forum.

Most of us get up, go to work, take care of business and our families, and look forward to the future we are working for.

No one has time for a race war - except the minuscule # of nutbags who will use any excuse not to work and the media who would love nothing better.

[Wasillaguy]

What a smug little delusional self-aggrandizing piece of shit this murderer was. Look at his pictures. Every one has the same fucked up "I'm a bad ass" attitude that would turn off an employer in a second.
Says he was a member of Nation of Islam, and called himself an "alpha-preneur", lifestyle coach, freedom strategist, mental game coach, nutritionist, author and spiritual advisor".
Well, now he's an alpha-corpse, deathstyle coach, hellbound strategist, mental flatline. I bet the hot lead knocked that stupid ass look right off his face.

[whell]

"Ill advised"? Why not call it what it is?

Can you quote for me any statement from BLM as vile as that from Walsh? Can you find a statement from the President calling for violence against the police?

Sorry, its too late for comparative morality. Its particularly late to debate it with someone like you who "has a hard time giving a fuck" about dead cops.

[Boreas]

Sorry, its too late for comparative morality. Its particularly late to debate it with someone like you who "has a hard time giving a fuck" about dead cops.

I'm not asking you do draw comparisons, I'm asking you to defend your post if you can.

[whell]

I'm not asking you do draw comparisons, I'm asking you to defend your post if you can.

The post doesn't need "defense." Its your comments on this topic that are typically indefensible.

But if you're asking for examples, it must be because you're too blind of filled with hate too see a President who has been pouring gasoline on this particular fire since 2009, starting with his "The police behaved stupidly" remark, and spiraling down from there.

Today is another example: last week, another cup full of gasoline thrown on the file by Obama:

"There are legitimate issues that have been raised, and there’s data and evidence to back up the concerns that are being expressed by these protesters.

And if police organizations and departments acknowledge that there’s a problem and there’s an issue, then that, too, is going to contribute to real solutions. And, as I said yesterday, that is what’s going to ultimately help make the job of being a cop a lot safer. It is in the interest of police officers that their communities trust them and that the kind of rancor and suspicion that exists right now is alleviated."

So, its the cop's fault that there some asshole ambushed and killed police officers in Dallas. Really? This is the President talking, and he's blaming cops for this.

Then you've got the comments a day after the Dallas shootings:

...I would hope that police organizations are also respectful of the frustration that people in these communities feel and not just dismiss these protests and these complaints as political correctness, or as politics or attacks on police. There are legitimate issues that have been raised, and there’s data and evidence to back up the concerns that are being expressed by these protesters.

And if police organizations and departments acknowledge that there’s a problem and there’s an issue, then that, too, is going to contribute to real solutions. And, as I said yesterday, that is what’s going to ultimately help make the job of being a cop a lot safer. It is in the interest of police officers that their communities trust them and that the kind of rancor and suspicion that exists right now is alleviated.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/07/10/remarks-president-obama-and-prime-minister-rajoy-spain-after-bilateral

So, yeah, the right time to suggest that the BLM folks might have a point and that they need to be listened to is the day after cops get killed at a BLM rally in Dallas. Another day, another cup of gasoline.

The community organizer in chief continues to talk about "data" that supports BLM's position. Let's see it? Let's see Whitehouse.gov, or the DOJ post the data so that everyone can see it and assess it. The links to studies I've posted here, and the link that Nailer just posted, doesn't appear to support Obama's take on "the data".

In fact, from the info Nailer posted, here's THE pull quote, IMHO:

Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police. Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.

Another statistic: A black man is 16 more likely to be killed by a cop than kill a cop. A white man is 20 times more likely.

Yet, BLM, Obama, Eric Holder when he was in office, seem to want to continue pushing this narrative. Keep it up, folks. Let's keep stirring the pot and see how many other whack jobs you'll inspire to shoot at police.

[Pio1980]

So, you are spinning something the POTUS never said into an anti Obama rant. He is right about a lack of trust, that needs attention to establish a constructive relationship between LEOs and all those they are supposed to serve and protect.

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[ZeroJunk]

Not sure what this has to do with anything. But, as far as occupational deaths go police as well as fireman are way down the list. While topped by loggers and fisherman, even farmers are more likely to be killed in deaths per 100,000.


And no, I am not trying to make any point, just thought it was interesting.

[nailer]

So, you are spinning something the POTUS never said into an anti Obama rant. He is right about a lack of trust, that needs attention to establish a constructive relationship between LEOs and all those they are supposed to serve and protect.

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First or second quote?

[Pio1980]

Sound bites really don't adequately serve the situation as a basis of discourse, the issues involved are too deep and long standing. There is a historical well known basis for distrust based on unequal treatment.

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[Boreas]

The post doesn't need "defense." Its your comments on this topic that are typically indefensible.

But if you're asking for examples, it must be because you're too blind of filled with hate too see a President who has been pouring gasoline on this particular fire since 2009, starting with his "The police behaved stupidly" remark, and spiraling down from there.

In the episode he referred to, they did. This was the Skip Gates episode.

Today is another example: last week, another cup full of gasoline thrown on the file by Obama:

"There are legitimate issues that have been raised, and there’s data and evidence to back up the concerns that are being expressed by these protesters.

And if police organizations and departments acknowledge that there’s a problem and there’s an issue, then that, too, is going to contribute to real solutions. And, as I said yesterday, that is what’s going to ultimately help make the job of being a cop a lot safer. It is in the interest of police officers that their communities trust them and that the kind of rancor and suspicion that exists right now is alleviated.[/quote]

There are indeed legitimate issues and concerns. Do you deny it?

So, its the cop's fault that there some asshole ambushed and killed police officers in Dallas. Really? This is the President talking, and he's blaming cops for this. .

He's saying no such thing and you know it.

Then you've got the comments a day after the Dallas shootings:

...I would hope that police organizations are also respectful of the frustration that people in these communities feel and not just dismiss these protests and these complaints as political correctness, or as politics or attacks on police. There are legitimate issues that have been raised, and there’s data and evidence to back up the concerns that are being expressed by these protesters.

And if police organizations and departments acknowledge that there’s a problem and there’s an issue, then that, too, is going to contribute to real solutions. And, as I said yesterday, that is what’s going to ultimately help make the job of being a cop a lot safer. It is in the interest of police officers that their communities trust them and that the kind of rancor and suspicion that exists right now is alleviated.

So, yeah, the right time to suggest that the BLM folks might have a point and that they need to be listened to is the day after cops get killed at a BLM rally in Dallas. Another day, another cup of gasoline.

He's not suggesting that BLM "might have a point". He's saying that they do have a point. Again, do you deny it?

The community organizer in chief continues to talk about "data" that supports BLM's position. Let's see it? Let's see Whitehouse.gov, or the DOJ post the data so that everyone can see it and assess it. The links to studies I've posted here, and the link that Nailer just posted, doesn't appear to support Obama's take on "the data".

In fact, from the info Nailer posted, here's THE pull quote, IMHO:

Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police. Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.

Another statistic: A black man is 16 more likely to be killed by a cop than kill a cop. A white man is 20 times more likely.

Yet, BLM, Obama, Eric Holder when he was in office, seem to want to continue pushing this narrative. Keep it up, folks. Let's keep stirring the pot and see how many other whack jobs you'll inspire to shoot at police.

So you do deny that there's a problem. I thought so.

[donquixote99]

In the episode he referred to, they did. This was the Skip Gates episode.

There are indeed legitimate issues and concerns. Do you deny it?

He's saying no such thing and you know it.

He's not suggesting that BLM "might have a point". He's saying that they do have a point. Again, do you deny it?

So you do deny that there's a problem. I thought so.

Good work. Thanks for taking the time.

[nailer]

The president saying "the police behaved stupidly" is a poor choice of words especially if Gates was killed or severely injured. It's like Dubya describing the War on Terror a crusade. But presidents are people too and will say stupid things.

[Boreas]

The president saying "the police behaved stupidly" is a poor choice of words especially if Gates was killed or severely injured. It's like Dubya describing the War on Terror a crusade. But presidents are people too and will say stupid things.

But, since Gates wasn't killed, it's okay. How else would you have had him describe the cop's actions? As racist? Note: they were.

[nailer]

But, since Gates wasn't killed, it's okay. How else would you have had him describe the cop's actions? As racist? Note: they were.

Was he injured?

Something not as stupid as stupid. Calling it racist would've been stupid too.

[Boreas]

Was he injured?

Something not as stupid as stupid. Calling it racist would've been stupid too.

It's not stupid to characterize the stupid actions of an individual cop as stupid. It's entirely warranted. Telling someone that they acted stupidly isn't the same as canning them stupid. Here is the entire quote that whell so judiciously edited.

"I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home, and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

[whell]

There are indeed legitimate issues and concerns. Do you deny it?


I absolutely agree there are issues, but I suspect you and I won't agree on what the issues actually are.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20160717/daytona-police-car-firebombed-outside-islamic-center

He's saying that and I know it.

Fixed it for you.


He's not suggesting that BLM "might have a point". He's saying that they do have a point. Again, do you deny it?

So you do deny that there's a problem. I thought so.

Wrong again. I said I want to see the data. He keeps referring to it. Let's see it. By the way, do you deny this?

"Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police. Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.

Another statistic: A black man is 16 more likely to be killed by a cop than kill a cop. A white man is 20 times more likely."

[Boreas]

I absolutely agree there are issues, but I suspect you and I won't agree on what the issues actually are.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20160717/daytona-police-car-firebombed-outside-islamic-center



Fixed it for you.




Wrong again. I said I want to see the data. He keeps referring to it. Let's see it. By the way, do you deny this?

"Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police. Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.

Another statistic: A black man is 16 more likely to be killed by a cop than kill a cop. A white man is 20 times more likely."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/police-shootings-ferguson-race-data

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.1f86248969c7

[nailer]

It's not stupid to characterize the stupid actions of an individual cop as stupid. It's entirely warranted. Telling someone that they acted stupidly isn't the same as canning them stupid. Here is the entire quote that whell so judiciously edited.

Based on the quote you provided President Obama accused the Cambridge police of acting stupidly, not a sole officer. Whose the greater editing sinner, you or whell?

[Boreas]

Based on the quote you provided President Obama accused the Cambridge police of acting stupidly, not a sole officer. Whose the greater editing sinner, you or whell?

I don't know. Probably not me since I didn't edit anything. And, since Gates' confrontation was with a single officer and not the entire Cambridge police department, one would have to be pretty, um, stupid to think Obama was referring to them all.

[nailer]

Correct! One would indeed have to be stupid not know what the words they are using mean.

police (noun) - the civil force of a national or local government, responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the maintenance of public order. (Google definition.)

Obama was pointing the presidential finger at the civil force of a local government, not an individual officer. He's smarter than that.

[Pio1980]

Is this historical SOP for that dept?

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[Pio1980]

OK, let's go with this:
http://harvardmagazine.com/2009/09/arrest-of-henry-louis-gates

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[donquixote99]

OK, let's go with this:
http://harvardmagazine.com/2009/09/arrest-of-henry-louis-gates

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Meh. Exonerates the Harvard Magazine staffer, but few other details.

[Pio1980]

I think it shows that poor communications all around made this happen.
The Harvard staffer didn't know that a distinguished scholar was her neighbor for starters.

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[whell]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/police-shootings-ferguson-race-data

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.1f86248969c7

You're suggesting that these are the stats that Obama is referring to? A study by the Guardian UK News? Some info pieced together by Mother Jones that starts with a conclusion and then finds disjointed data to support that conclusion? An article in WaPo that draws no real conclusions?

Yeah, that explains a lot. And while you're at it, I'm sure you can confirm that its these exact source that Obama is relying on when he refers to "the data"? Can't help but notice no mention of the Harvard study that I posted.

So Obama reads Mother Jones? Figures. :rolleyes:

[ZeroJunk]

You're suggesting that these are the stats that Obama is referring to? A study by the Guardian UK News? Some info pieced together by Mother Jones that starts with a conclusion and then finds disjointed data to support that conclusion? An article in WaPo that draws no real conclusions?

Yeah, that explains a lot. And while you're at it, I'm sure you can confirm that its these exact source that Obama is relying on when he refers to "the data"? Can't help but notice no mention of the Harvard study that I posted.

So Obama reads Mother Jones? Figures. :rolleyes:

Sort of reminds me of a saying my boss had, figures don't lie but liars figure.

[Pio1980]

That pretty much covers the fact averse hot air buffoon and the dumpster fire of lies that's backing him.

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