FAKE NEWS EXPOSED: A Service of PoliticalChat.com

[whell]

LOL. The topic wasn't even economics. It was Trump's (proto)fascism. Once it became obvious that you lost the argument about Trump's (proto)fascism, you brought up Friedrich Hayek. And you accuse me of changing the subject. LOL. No matter. For the record, you lost both arguments.

You're lying again. The topic switched to economics when you accused me of not understanding the bullshit nuances of socializt eupemisms, which evolved from your use of a term that you have yet to define (semi-facist) which you lied about using.

For the record, the most recent instance I can find of someone notable using the term (semi-fascist) is Biden. So, now I guess I know where you got the term from. Too bad you don't have access to Biden to have him or his handlers tell you what the term means.

For the record, you're right. I can't win an argument against someone who keeps lying about their own posts.

[Rajoo]

A Semi-Fascist is someone who has not yet fully adopted the Nazi salute.

Here is a picture that explains it. The hand gesture does not look sincere, wimpish actually.

https://i.imgflip.com/10qwgx.jpg

Here is Trump trying to mimic Hitler and he too is failing. His tie needs to be cut in half.

https://i.imgflip.com/21qrps.jpg

Trump in a suit does not have the stage presence like Hitler in a real uniform. Wonder what a MAGA uniform will look like.

[Rajoo]

This is even worse.

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/03/11/ap_928181088538_slide-f3bb1d8ebd566adf803dc5275409f358cb2c564f-s600-c85.webp

[whell]

A Semi-Fascist is someone who has not yet fully adopted the Nazi salute.

Here is a picture that explains it. The hand gesture does not look sincere, wimpish actually.

https://i.imgflip.com/10qwgx.jpg

Here is Trump trying to mimic Hitler and he too is failing. His tie needs to be cut in half.

https://i.imgflip.com/21qrps.jpg

Trump in a suit does not have the stage presence like Hitler in a real uniform. Wonder what a MAGA uniform will look like.

Looks like something that anyone can do:

https://www.israelhayom.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/biden-wave-1-750x375.jpg

[finnbow]

You're lying again. The topic switched to economics when you accused me of not understanding the bullshit nuances of socializt eupemisms, which evolved from your use of a term that you have yet to define (semi-facist) which you lied about using...

Two things. You proved conclusively that you don't understand the difference between soci@lism and democratic soci@lism. That's now settled.

Secondly, I have used the term protofascism for months now and I provided you an article in Encyclopedia Britannica that showed that protofascism is indeed an ideology that also goes by the name semi-fascism. The article also stated that many renowned historians believe Trump to be a protofascist.

If you are truly interested in reading the parallels between Trump and Mussolini (the first fascist and coiner of the term itself), read this article citing the concerns of a number distinguished historians and the parallels to Mussolini (and this was before the Big Lie and Jan. 6, which cemented Trump's deserved reputation as a (proto)fascist).
https://www.businessinsider.com/historians-election-experts-warn-trump-behaving-like-mussolini-2020-9

I can't help it if you feel compelled to defend Trump from rightful charges of (proto)fascism. That's your choice. Also I haven't said you're stupid for doing so (though it helps). Smart people are also attracted to the allure of fascism. Josef Goebbels had a PhD in history from the oldest and most prestigious university in Germany, after all.

[RickeyM]

He calls the Democratic Party the Democrat Party as well as soci@list (both incorrect), but bristles at MAGA being called (proto)fascist (a true assertion). Dude lives in Bizarro World.
That sort of thing happens when you've been radicalized

[RickeyM]

Looks like something that anyone can do:

https://www.israelhayom.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/biden-wave-1-750x375.jpg

Not surprised that you can't tell the difference. Subtleties are often lost on the radicalized.

[whell]

Two things. You proved conclusively that you don't understand the difference between soci@lism and democratic soci@lism.

Bullshit. I just don't agree with your simplistic, euphemistic definition.

Secondly, I have used the term protofascism for months now and I provided you an article in Encyclopedia Britannica that showed that protofascism is indeed an ideology that also goes by the name semi-fascism. The article also stated that many renowned historians believe Trump to be a protofascist.

I don't care what term you've used for months. You asked me a direct question:

Are you really ready to argue that extreme elements of the MAGA movement aren't at least semi-fascist?

I've since repeatedly asked you to define the term you used, and I also asked for examples of who you believe these "semi-fascists" are. You've avoided answering these questions, then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

So, do one of the following or shut up and stop embarrassing yourself:
- Define what you and/or Biden mean when you use the term "semi-fascist".
- Admit that you were riffing on Biden and the term has no objective meaning.
- Admit that you want to talk about Trump all the time, 24/7, 365. This would at least match up with your constant mindless posts which are mostly copy/paste exercises from elsewhere in the lefty blogosphere, and put your question above in the correct context.

I can't help it if you feel compelled to defend Trump from rightful charges of (proto)fascism. That's your choice. Also I haven't said you're stupid for doing so (though it helps). Smart people are also attracted to the allure of fascism. Josef Goebbels had a PhD in history from the oldest and most prestigious university in Germany, after all.

Sure. And Putin has a Ph.D in Economics. I guess the smart folks are also attracted by the allure of socializm/communism.

[Rajoo]

Dana Milbank: “To call a person who endorses violence against the duly elected government a ‘Republican’ is itself Orwellian. More accurate words exist for such a person. One of them is ‘fascist.’”

Fascists/Semi-Fascists:

First and foremost Trump.
Ron DeSantis
Gregg Abbot


Gym Jordan
Matt Goest wants Russia to be invited to join NATO
MTG
Louis Gohmert
Paul Gosar
Tommy Tubes
Trump Junior

[finnbow]

Bullshit. I just don't agree with your simplistic, euphemistic definition.

It wasn't my definition. It was the definition provided by the Oxford English Language Dictionary. Don't like it? Take it up with them. While you're at it, you may wish to check out their definition for euphemism as you don't seem to know what it means either.

I've since repeatedly asked you to define the term you used, and I also asked for examples of who you believe these "semi-fascists" are. You've avoided answering these questions, then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

So, do one of the following or shut up and stop embarrassing yourself:
- Define what you and/or Biden mean when you use the term "semi-fascist".

WTF? I provided you an informative article from Encyclopedia Britannica that defined and explained protofascism (which they said was also known by the term semi-fascism). Don't like it? Take it up with them. If you don't like their definition pull up the Google search results (https://www.google.com/search?q=proto+fascism+definition&client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=cmOwZOHZA_Wl1QHbxbqQDg&ved=0ahUKEwjh2qzLx4yAAxX1UjUKHduiDuIQ4dUDCBA&oq=proto+fascism+definition&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiGHByb3RvIGZhc2Npc20gZGVm aW5pdGlvbkgAUABYAHAAeAGQAQCYAQCgAQCqAQC4AQzIAQDiAw QYACBB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) and dive in. In addition to Britannica, Merriam-Webster and Wikipedia also provide definitions- take your pick. For that matter, there are entire books on the subject. Here's (https://www.amazon.com/Legacy-History-Proto-Fascism-Americas-Greatest-ebook/dp/B0067O0ZY4/ref=sr_1_1?crid=6OMZFYNH215D&keywords=protofascism&qid=1689281731&s=books&sprefix=protofascism%2Cstripbooks%2C84&sr=1-1) one and here's (https://www.amazon.com/Proto-Fascism-America-Neoliberalism-Democracy-Intersections/dp/0873678524/ref=sr_1_2?crid=6OMZFYNH215D&keywords=protofascism&qid=1689281955&s=books&sprefix=protofascism%2Cstripbooks%2C84&sr=1-2) another.

Once again, just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
- Admit that you were riffing on Biden and the term has no objective meaning.
It has an objective meaning (see above) and I used the word protofascist long before Biden correctly used the term to describe "extreme MAGA" folks.

- Admit that you want to talk about Trump all the time, 24/7, 365.
Schadenfreude is a powerful force and I revel in watching your Dear Leader finally getting his comeuppance for a life of crime and for the damage he did to our country. Besides, he is the leading GOP candidate for the presidency and he happens to be under indictment for 71 felonies (with almost certainly many more to come). This is a political forum and I'd say that this is one of the most newsworthy stories in the history of the republic. Don't like it? Tell Trump to cop a plea and fade away.

Sure. And Putin has a Ph.D in Economics. I guess the smart folks are also attracted by the allure of socializm/communism.

Two things. He purchased and/or plagiarized his thesis. (https://www.rferl.org/a/1067113.html) Also, it is not leftists attracted to Putin. It's the MAGA crowd as Putin is no longer a communist, but a fascist/authoritarian. Hence the appeal of Putin to Trump and the MAGA crowd.

[Rajoo]

Schadenfreude is a powerful force and I revel in watching your Dear Leader finally getting his comeuppance for a life of crime and for the damage he did to our country. Besides, he is the leading GOP candidate for the presidency and he happens to be under indictment for 71 felonies (with almost certainly many more to come). This is a political forum and I'd say that this is one of the most newsworthy stories in the history of the republic. Don't like it? Tell Trump to cop a plea and fade away.


According Jennifer Rubin's column today, it certainly seems so. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy if you ask me.

Buckle up: The federal Jan. 6 indictment might be around the corner

Special counsel Jack Smith has been toiling away for months, calling witnesses before grand juries and litigating against claims of privilege in his investigation of twice-indicted former president Donald Trump. Given the accelerated pace of his investigation, the inner-circle witnesses from whom Smith has obtained testimony and the expected state indictment in Georgia on a portion of the plot to overthrow the 2020 election, some experienced prosecutors — including former Justice Department lawyers — think Smith is likely to bring an indictment before Fulton County, Ga., District Attorney Fani T. Willis pulls the trigger.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/13/jan-6-indictment-trump-prosecution-memo/

[finnbow]

According Jennifer Rubin's column today, it certainly seems so. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy if you ask me.

Buckle up: The federal Jan. 6 indictment might be around the corner

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/13/jan-6-indictment-trump-prosecution-memo/

Yeh, but Hunter Biden's laptop!!!

[whell]

Dana Milbank: “To call a person who endorses violence against the duly elected government a ‘Republican’ is itself Orwellian. More accurate words exist for such a person. One of them is ‘fascist.’”

Fascists/Semi-Fascists:

First and foremost Trump.
Ron DeSantis
Gregg Abbot


Gym Jordan
Matt Goest wants Russia to be invited to join NATO
MTG
Louis Gohmert
Paul Gosar
Tommy Tubes
Trump Junior

Let's just take a couple: Please describe the specific, documented actions that DeSantis and Abbot have taken that prompt you to place them on your list.

[Chicks]

An excellent piece on DeSatan's slide into Orban-style fascism here, but it's well above your comprehension level, sorry.

https://truthout.org/articles/floridas-ron-desantis-is-just-a-step-behind-hungarys-fascist-viktor-orban/

[whell]

It wasn't my definition. It was the definition provided by the Oxford English Language Dictionary. Don't like it? Take it up with them. While you're at it, you may wish to check out their definition for euphemism as you don't seem to know what it means either.

Keep it up and you'll reach "king butthole" status in no time.

Euphemism is used perfectly in this context: a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.

Socializm is unpleasant in any form. The myriad terms that are substituted for it, such as "Social Democrat" are used in an effort to make socializm sound more palatable. Hell, the word "socializm" itself is a euphemism for the less pleasant aspects and outcomes associated with its application.

Congratulations on finding a source that attempts to convince folks that there are degrees of "socializm", where one is "bad" - do you call it "pure socializm" - because an autocrat is in charge. This is contrasted with "less bad socializm" - you know, the type where folks are supposedly happy - like Social Democracy. I guess that's because - as you like to point out - the word "democracy" is part of the title. However, as you also like to point out, it doesn't mean that your source is right.

By the way, if socializm is so great, why did the intrepid admins set up the forum to do this when someone types the word: so************************m?

To test your definition of socializm, let me ask you very simple questions:

- Can socializm exist within a society absent an "authoritarian leader".
- Can democrat forms of citizen participation - such as voting or running for elections - exist under where a leader of a society is an "authoritarian"?

If you answered yes to both, then you understand why your simplistic definition is intellectually dishonest.


WTF? I provided you an informative article from Encyclopedia Britannica that defined and explained protofascism (which they said was also known by the term semi-fascism). Don't like it? Take it up with them. If you don't like their definition pull up the Google search results (https://www.google.com/search?q=proto+fascism+definition&client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=cmOwZOHZA_Wl1QHbxbqQDg&ved=0ahUKEwjh2qzLx4yAAxX1UjUKHduiDuIQ4dUDCBA&oq=proto+fascism+definition&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiGHByb3RvIGZhc2Npc20gZGVm aW5pdGlvbkgAUABYAHAAeAGQAQCYAQCgAQCqAQC4AQzIAQDiAw QYACBB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) and dive in. In addition to Britannica, Merriam-Webster and Wikipedia also provide definitions- take your pick. For that matter, there are entire books on the subject. Here's (https://www.amazon.com/Legacy-History-Proto-Fascism-Americas-Greatest-ebook/dp/B0067O0ZY4/ref=sr_1_1?crid=6OMZFYNH215D&keywords=protofascism&qid=1689281731&s=books&sprefix=protofascism%2Cstripbooks%2C84&sr=1-1) one and here's (https://www.amazon.com/Proto-Fascism-America-Neoliberalism-Democracy-Intersections/dp/0873678524/ref=sr_1_2?crid=6OMZFYNH215D&keywords=protofascism&qid=1689281955&s=books&sprefix=protofascism%2Cstripbooks%2C84&sr=1-2) another.

Once again, just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It has an objective meaning (see above) and I used the word protofascist long before Biden correctly used the term to describe "extreme MAGA" folks.

Good for you, you found a word you're happy with. A claim that it is "sometimes used interchangeably" with another word doesn't mean that the two words share the same definition. It simply means that the person using the term - in this case "semi-fascist" - is imputing or suggesting a possible meaning. The fact remains that there are a lot of opinions about what the term semi-fascist might mean, but no objective definition. And, to that end, you still have not provided specific examples of actual behavior.
Similarly, I can go to a thesaurus (https://www.thefreedictionary.com/so************************m) and look up "socializm". Here's what I get:

1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which the means of production are collectively owned but a completely classless society has not yet been achieved.

So "socializm" is an inclusive word that includes all the little euphemistic feel-good terms like "social democracy". Funny, I don't see a damn thing in that description about authoritarian leaders. But, I will allow that autocracy is one possible type of leadership in a socializtic society.

Schadenfreude is a powerful force...

Yep, it is. Its also usually exhibited or felt by small people who get their jollies by tearing other folks down.

[Chicks]

Keep it up and you'll reach "king butthole" status in no time.



Nope, your hold on that position has been clenched for a long, long time.

[Rajoo]

Let's just take a couple: Please describe the specific, documented actions that DeSantis and Abbot have taken that prompt you to place them on your list.

Yawn. I believe most of us except the MAGAt believe this to be true about DeSantis and Abbot. I will leave it at that since Meatball is pretty much out of the running for potus now.

[bobabode]

Whell asks, "By the way, if socializm is so great, why did the intrepid admins set up the forum to do this when someone types the word: so************************m?"

It's because the word c i a l i s is contained within the word, ya nitwit. (rolls eyes)
If you have cramps in your noggin for more than four hours? Delete your account.

[finnbow]

Let's just take a couple: Please describe the specific, documented actions that DeSantis and Abbot have taken that prompt you to place them on your list.

You don't get to make homework assignments. Figure it out for yourself.

[Rajoo]

You don't get to make homework assignments. Figure it out for yourself.

He will take every word and nitpick it and cloud the basic tenet which is MAGA is Fascism and MAGAts are Fascists. I don't feel compelled to prove anything, the internet is full of articles covering this topic from people who know a lot more and write for a living and can do it far far better than me. (or is it I?)

After all, DeSantis has earned the nickname DeFascist.

[finnbow]

Keep it up and you'll reach "king butthole" status in no time...

Look, I demolished your bullshit sophistry in defense of Dear Leader's dignity. Take the loss and move on. No need to get all butt hurt about it. Just take it as a learning experience.

[RickeyM]

Whell asks, "By the way, if socializm is so great, why did the intrepid admins set up the forum to do this when someone types the word: so************************m?"

It's because the word c i a l i s is contained within the word, ya nitwit. (rolls eyes)
If you have cramps in your noggin for more than four hours? Delete your account.
https://media.giphy.com/media/DBQUBwbv8hbwY/giphy.gif

Watching w try to prove himself right and everyone else wrong is getting more amusing by the day

[RickeyM]

Sure. And Putin has a Ph.D in Economics. I guess the smart folks are also attracted by the allure of soci@lism/communism.

... and theeerrre you go. Straight from Reich-wing media sources and politicians that love to (try and) foist those labels [onto] Democrats, to whell's noggin where it percolates around a bit then on to our digital pages here. 1-2-3

[finnbow]

... and theeerrre you go. Straight from Reich-wing media sources and politicians that love to (try and) attach those labels to Democrats, to whell's noggin, to our digital pages here. 1-2-3

What he failed to mention is that Putin plagiarized and/or bought his thesis and that it is the MAGA wing of the GOP that supports and admires Putin.

[Ike Bana]

- Can socializm exist within a society absent an "authoritarian leader".
- Can democrat forms of citizen participation - such as voting or running for elections - exist under where a leader of a society is an "authoritarian"?



Answer #1, yes.

Answer #2, typically no.

For mikey's information. Russia was not a communist or soci@list country. It was a totalitarian dictatorship, run by a small group of leadership. However, most of the post WWII leadership of the USSR qualified as absolute dictators.

[Rajoo]

Watching w try to prove himself right and everyone else wrong is getting more amusing by the day

Its like catching a young child in a lie and the child will keep repeating the same lie because they do not have another option other telling the truth, which very few ever do.

[Oerets]

Its like catching a young child in a lie and the child will keep repeating the same lie because they do not have another option other telling the truth, which very few ever do.

Or they have and continue to lie, doubling down getting deeper and deeper. To the point they can't remember what the truth was or care anymore.

Only being right...in there own mind. Making fun or ridiculing of any and all who see thru, not believing their lies.

[finnbow]

A 5th Circuit panel temporarily stays the district court order from the Whell's wingnut judge in Louisiana. Biden administration may continue to work with tech companies to protect the country from foreign disinformation until the case is heard by somebody other than a knuckle-dragging MAGA idiot.

[Rajoo]

A 5th Circuit panel temporarily stays the district court order from the Whell's wingnut judge in Louisiana. Biden administration may continue to work with tech companies to protect the country from foreign disinformation until the case is heard by somebody other than a knuckle-dragging MAGA idiot.

Great news. They probably will not have to make any calls to Truth Social since everyone there is already well immersed in MAGAverse.

Trump won, the J6 insurrection was instigated by the FBI, the MAL stolen documents had been declassified, defund the FBI, lockup Hunter, impeach Biden and all will be forgiven if Congress reinstates Trump as President (fuzzy on the details).

[Chicks]

‘You Don’t Accept My Answer!’ Mike Pence Hammers Tucker Carlson on Russian Invasion of Ukraine
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/you-dont-accept-my-answer-mike-pence-hammers-tucker-carlson-on-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/

Nice job Mikey! I didn’t think you had it in you. Striking back at Fucker, a Pootin stooge if there ever was one, thanks so much! Facts matter; Fucker never, ever sticks to facts.

[Rajoo]

^^In any other country, this evil person would be branded a traitor.

After reading this news report from another source, looks like Tucker was getting even with Pence for his certifying the election and branding him as Public enemy #1 for the MAGAts.

[whell]

What he failed to mention is that Putin plagiarized and/or bought his thesis and that it is the MAGA wing of the GOP that supports and admires Putin.

Sounds just like your hero and plagiarist in chief Biden.

[whell]

... and theeerrre you go. Straight from Reich-wing media sources and politicians that love to (try and) foist those labels [onto] Democrats, to whell's noggin where it percolates around a bit then on to our digital pages here. 1-2-3

Yeah, kinda like the word "fascist" is all the rage on the left right now.

[whell]

You don't get to make homework assignments. Figure it out for yourself.

Nice try. I love how you folks throw labels around yet can't attach them to any specific observable behavior.

[whell]

Look, I demolished your bullshit sophistry in defense of Dear Leader's dignity. Take the loss and move on. No need to get all butt hurt about it. Just take it as a learning experience.

You're such a practiced liar that I'm sure you've convinced yourself of that.

[whell]

Whell asks, "By the way, if socializm is so great, why did the intrepid admins set up the forum to do this when someone types the word: so************************m?"

It's because the word c i a l i s is contained within the word, ya nitwit. (rolls eyes)
If you have cramps in your noggin for more than four hours? Delete your account.

Really? Erectile dysfunction is a socializt problem? Figures...

[finnbow]

Nice try. I love how you folks throw labels around yet can't attach them to any specific observable behavior.


The word (proto)fascist is being used to describe specific observable behavior, unlike your use of soci@list. Indeed there is an entire thread devoted to MAGA fascist behavior. Try to keep up.

[finnbow]

Really? Erectile dysfunction is a socializt problem? Figures...


I guess you have forgotten about the Tucker Carlson ball-tanning device he was advocating for his wingnut audience.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230715/9a6cb692a115a992bbc1237d006a73ab.jpg

[Rajoo]

https://resistancememes.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/fintantrialrunfascismthree.png?w=800

[bobabode]

Really? Erectile dysfunction is a socializt problem? Figures...

Sad little man.

[Rajoo]

Trump and the Republican party exemplify these five elements of fascism

“In 2016, I declared I am your voice,” Trump said at his first 2024 campaign rally in Waco, Texas. “Today, I add I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution.”

How do we describe what Trump wants for America?

“Authoritarianism” isn’t adequate. It is fascism. Fascism stands for a coherent set of ideas different from – and more dangerous than – authoritarianism.

To fight those ideas, it’s necessary to be aware of what they are and how they fit together.

Borrowing from the cultural theorist Umberto Eco, the historians Emilio Gentile and Ian Kershaw, the political scientist Roger Griffin, and the former US secretary of state Madeleine Albright, I offer five elements that distinguish fascism from authoritarianism.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/17/trump-republican-party-fascism

[Rajoo]

Sad little man.

He is like a flat earther, someone who refuses to accept established facts.
If action and reaction are equal and opposite, how can one build a perpetual motion machine? He will claim it's possible.

[whell]

The word (proto)fascist is being used to describe specific observable behavior, unlike your use of soci@list. Indeed there is an entire thread devoted to MAGA fascist behavior. Try to keep up.

Or better put, it is an entire thread devoted to one of your core specialties: employing logical fallacies. In that thread's case, and like many of your arguments, it's an exercise in the deductive reasoning fallacy, where you provide the conclusion to an argument, and then invite like-minded folks to agree with you. Bravo.

However, when challenged to take your conclusion and use it to point out specifics, you can't do it, and then act all butt-hurt about it.

You cited Paxton at the outset of your article, maybe because he decided to "change his mind" about Trump after watching him waving to a cheering crowd. What, he forgot about the Obama 2008 European tour, where he gave the Berlin crowd the ol' Nazi salute?
https://www.politico.com/dims4/default/4dafadf/2147483647/strip/true/crop/297x223+0+0/resize/630x473!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs3-origin-images.politico.com%2F080724_obama_speech.jpg

Or the Chicago election night rally?
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/10/24/borally460.jpg?width=620&dpr=1&s=none

[Rajoo]

Obama's fans are doing the wave, Trump's cult is doing the one finger salute.
Every accusation is an admission.

Creepy, One-Finger Salute At Trump Rally Evokes 'Heil Hitler' Gesture

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/63272a572600003300052665.jpeg?cache=gkthxmTpkN&ops=crop_105_461_5395_3164%2Cscalefit_720_noupscal e&format=webp

Several supporters, some with heads bowed, stood quietly in the audience with a single finger raised above their heads. Some viewers speculated that it referred to the nationalist “America first” slogan, while others claimed it was a symbol of QAnon, which Trump is increasingly espousing. Some in the audience were employing a modified white supremacy “OK” hate sign with only the index finger extended.

[finnbow]

Or better put, it is an entire thread devoted to one of your core specialties: employing logical fallacies…
To everyone who knows me well, I am logical to a fault. A MS in Civil Engineering, an MBA and a successful 38 year worldwide engineering career are not the result of faulty logic and reasoning. What you see as faulty logic is an intolerance for bullshit, something learned from managing mega construction projects for decades (11 years of which was in Germany, a nation known for its slavish devotion to logic not to mention a passing fancy for fascism).

You, OTOH, are not swayed by facts, logic or reasoning. What better proof than you continuing to support and defend Trump and MAGA, a movement built on lies, bullshit and feral emotions?

[donquixote99]

[QUOTE=Rajoo;421327]Obama's fans are doing the wave, Trump's cult is doing the one finger salute.
Every accusation is an admission.

Creepy, One-Finger Salute At Trump Rally Evokes 'Heil Hitler' Gesture



One race, one nation, one leader!

Or, as they used to say, "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer!

[finnbow]

You're such a practiced liar that I'm sure you've convinced yourself of that.


Being called a liar by someone who believes in Trump is a compliment. Countering your MAGA bullshit with facts and reason must be jarring to your psyche. You are a guy who thinks award-winning journalism is fake news and Trumpian ramblings are gospel. Sad.

[RickeyM]

Really? Erectile dysfunction is a socializt problem? Figures...

Sad little man.

I would explain it to him but it's a waste of bandwidth.

Yeah, kinda like the word "fascist" is all the rage on the left right now.

The WHATABOUT! king strikes again, LOL.

https://i.imgflip.com/2ry2xl.jpg

Kinda reminds me of whell.

[RickeyM]

Or better put, it is an entire thread devoted to one of your core specialties: employing logical fallacies. In that thread's case, and like many of your arguments, it's an exercise in the deductive reasoning fallacy, where you provide the conclusion to an argument, and then invite like-minded folks to agree with you. Bravo.

However, when challenged to take your conclusion and use it to point out specifics, you can't do it, and then act all butt-hurt about it.

You cited Paxton at the outset of your article, maybe because he decided to "change his mind" about Trump after watching him waving to a cheering crowd. What, he forgot about the Obama 2008 European tour, where he gave the Berlin crowd the ol' Nazi salute?
https://www.politico.com/dims4/default/4dafadf/2147483647/strip/true/crop/297x223+0+0/resize/630x473!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs3-origin-images.politico.com%2F080724_obama_speech.jpg

Or the Chicago election night rally?
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/10/24/borally460.jpg?width=620&dpr=1&s=none
and you're STILL too dumb to understand the difference.

Or maybe it's just another case of TROLLIN' TROLLIN' TROLLIN'

[donquixote99]

Kelly Ann Conway explained it all years ago. We may have facts, but Whell has alternative facts. He feels entitled to keep them as long as he wants, Moynihan be damned.

[RickeyM]

Kelly Ann Conway explained it all years ago. We may have facts, but Whell has alternative facts. He feels entitled to keep them as long as he wants, Moynihan be damned.
He certainly entitled to keep them as long as he wants just as we are entitled to be amused by his feeble attempts at convincing us it's more than just malarkey.

[donquixote99]

He certainly entitled to keep them as long as he wants just as we are entitled to be amused by his feeble attempts at convincing us it's more than just malarkey.

He can't have any realistic expectation to convince us of anything whatsoever at this point. It's mainly just to enjoy waving his flag and bugging us.

[Rajoo]

Blame it on the “MAGA persecution complex” — the vast array of outlets in the right-wing media ecosystem that incentivizes GOP lawmakers to pander to conservative victimization and grievance. It’s feasting on so many claims of persecution that it’s essentially eating itself to death.

At last week’s hearing, Republicans alleged that the FBI investigated conservative parents at school board meetings. (That’s entirely baseless.) They insisted FBI Director Christopher A. Wray, a registered Republican, personally sicced the FBI on conservatives. (Wray called this “insane.”) They claimed the FBI has eagerly persecuted Trump. (The FBI has actually been rule-bound and cautious.) They railed that FBI plants incited the Jan. 6, 2021, attack. (The central evidence of this has collapsed.)

Here is a good summation.

“Good oversight may start with a theory, but it gathers facts before reaching conclusions,” Brendan Buck, a former senior House GOP leadership aide, told me. “These committees are starting with conclusions and then trying — and mostly failing — to find facts to support them.”

That is where Kellyanne's alternative facts come in, to us those are pure unadulterated BS. In logic there is a concept that if your primary premise is based on unfounded facts (aka alternate facts), argument is no longer valid.

The MAGA persecution complex is eating itself to death

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/17/jim-jordan-weaponization-hearing-wray-fbi-trump-maga/

[Rajoo]

This is from last week.

“I think saying that there were problems with 2020 is very real. I don’t think that’s election denying,” McDaniel told Wallace. “I’m from Wayne County [Michigan]. We had a woman send a note saying I’m being told to backdate ballots. We had to look into that. That’s deeply concerning. When you have friends who are poll-watching and being kicked out, that’s deeply concerning. We have every right to look at that.”

McDaniel, when pressed, conceded that Biden is the president, but she insisted there had been "lots of problems" with that election and so she didn't think "he won it fair."

Two and a half years, head of the RNC and she is still an election denier.

https://www.rawstory.com/ronna-mcdaniel-2662274703/

[RickeyM]

HORSE HOCKEY! Did they look into those alleged issues? Of course they did. Did they find any wrongdoing? Of course they didn't. The only "problems" (for them) were the majority of the votes were for Biden.

she didn't think "he won it fair"
The head of the Republican National Command would say nothing less.

[Rajoo]

HORSE HOCKEY! Did they look into those alleged issues? Of course they did. Did they find any wrongdoing? Of course they didn't. The only "problems" (for them) were the majority of the votes were for Biden.


The head of the Republican National Command would say nothing less.

Typical of fascism, the Central Command needs to make up truths to support their lies. All elections are closely monitored by both parties and very little fraud ever takes place un-noticed and they are always investigated.

Edit: Now that $45 is the front runner and presumptive nominee for 2024, the RNC is tacitly supporting his election fraud crap. Expect other Repubs to fall in line. Amazing that the Fox-Dominion settlement is not dissuading them propagating the BIG LIE.

[finnbow]

HORSE HOCKEY! Did they look into those alleged issues? Of course they did. Did they find any wrongdoing? Of course they didn't. The only "problems" (for them) were the majority of the votes were for Biden.


The head of the Republican National Command would say nothing less.


One of her best friends was indicted yesterday for attempting to steal the election for Trump. LOL.

[Rajoo]

One of her best friends was indicted yesterday for attempting to steal the election for Trump. LOL.

A Ronna McD's friend? Who?

[finnbow]

A Ronna McD's friend? Who?


Kathy Berden, close friend of Ronna and RNC committeewoman. Her subpoena by the J6 Committee helped get Liz Cheney censured (a move by the RNC that even McConnell objected to).

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/us/politics/republicans-censure-mcconnell.html

[Rajoo]

Thanks finn, after reading the article putting the January 6th insurrection and especially Trump's part in it is exactly what they did not want, "On Capitol Hill, there is little appetite among Republicans for talking about the riot."

And this is exactly what they are going to get now.

[finnbow]

It turned out that Whells IRS whistleblower hearing turned out to be a complete and utter shit show as expected. The witnesses admitted that in the course of a 5 year investigation, they saw zero evidence implicating Joe Biden and that 90% of their prosecutorial recommendations on other investigations have been rejected by prosecutors as well. At that point, MTG decided to show Hunter Biden dick pics to the assembled crowd. I shit you not.

[Rajoo]

^^

Rep. Robert Garcia later in the hearing used Greene’s move to take a jab at the House GOP majority.

“Today’s hearing is like most of the majority’s investigations and hearings: A lot of allegations, zero proof, no receipts – but apparently, some dick pics,” Garcia said.

I just could not believe that something like this happened in a Congressional committee hearing. Call me a believer. Can the fascists stoop any lower? Absolutely no sense of decorum and really wonder about the folks that actually vote slimeballs like MTG.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4106303-greene-displays-sexual-images-of-hunter-biden-at-irs-whistleblower-hearing/

[finnbow]

^^



I just could not believe that something like this happened in a Congressional committee hearing. Call me a believer. Can the fascists stoop any lower? Absolutely no sense of decorum and really wonder about the folks that actually vote slimeballs like MTG.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4106303-greene-displays-sexual-images-of-hunter-biden-at-irs-whistleblower-hearing/


Now she is using Hunter dick pics in a campaign mailer. No shit. Whell must be very proud.

[barbara]

Can you imagine the response if the Trump children were exposed in this way?
On the other hand, considering the reported things Trump has said about Ivanka, he probably would not mind if congress were treated to her nude photos.

[Oerets]

I also watch the "Hearings" yesterday afternoon.

Hunter did do a lot of illegal activities. And was investigated and charged. Did he do more then charged for? Looks so, is this so unusual though?

Most of the actions were during the Former Guys "leadership"...or appointees.

This could be a way of keeping Trump and kids from being investigated. Making any investigation into their activities. Seen as a tit for tat, you come after mine I go after yours.. Also a good way to tarnish Joe bloody him up for the upcoming election. Look at all the clips and sound bites ahead in campaign ads soon, if not already.

[finnbow]

Can you imagine the response if the Trump children were exposed in this way?
On the other hand, considering the reported things Trump has said about Ivanka, he probably would not mind if congress were treated to her nude photos.


Or Melania from her nudie picture days in congressional hearing about immigration, visas and chain migration (her visa application was dubious and her parents ended up coming here just as Trump was bitching about chain migration of immigrant families).

[Human]

I also watch the "Hearings" yesterday afternoon.

Hunter did do a lot of illegal activities. And was investigated and charged. Did he do more then charged for? Looks so, is this so unusual though?

Most of the actions were during the Former Guys "leadership"...or appointees.

This could be a way of keeping Trump and kids from being investigated. Making any investigation into their activities. Seen as a tit for tat, you come after mine I go after yours.. Also a good way to tarnish Joe bloody him up for the upcoming election. Look at all the clips and sound bites ahead in campaign ads soon, if not already.

I think Hunter also did some stuff that is legal, but probably shouldn't be.

Kind of like lavishing gifts upon members of the Supreme Court when you have cases before them...

[Rajoo]

I think Hunter also did some stuff that is legal, but probably shouldn't be.

Kind of like lavishing gifts upon members of the Supreme Court when you have cases before them...

You have any proof of this?

[Human]

You have any proof of this?

Fair question. I refer to https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2023/04/26/u-s-supreme-court-justices-take-lavish-gifts-then-raise-the-bar-for-bribery-prosecutions/

Excerpt:
************************************************** ***********
Thomas has been far from alone on the court in enjoying the largesse of the uber-wealthy.

Late liberal Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg in 2018 took a trip to Israel compliments of billionaire Morris Kahn, who had business before the court just a year earlier.

Late Justice Antonin Scalia took at least 258 subsidized trips while he was on the court and he was on one when he suddenly died in 2016.

Scalia’s more-liberal colleague, retired Justice Stephen Breyer, took at least 225 subsidized trips between 2004 and 2016. They include a 2013 trip to the exclusive island of Nantucket compliments of private-equity billionaire David Rubenstein, Gabe Roth, executive director of the group Fix the Court, reported.

Those were some of the 1,309 trips Supreme Court justices took compliments of others between 2004 and 2019, according to a list compiled by the watchdog group Open Secrets. That’s nine trips per justice, per year, and it’s unlikely they stayed at the Holiday Inn on most of them.

And those are just the ones that justices have disclosed. It’s unclear how many — like decades of Thomas’ travels — have been unreported, or whether the justices will suffer any consequences for not reporting them.

Disturbing examples of such non-disclosure continue to flow in — thanks to investigative reporters, not the justices themselves.

On Tuesday, Politico reported that Justice Neil Gorsuch had been trying for some time in 2017 to unload a 40-acre property he co-owned in Colorado. Nine days after he was confirmed to the Supreme Court, the property was purchased by the CEO of a law firm that has had numerous cases before the court — and whose clients Gorsuch has sided with much more often than not.

Gorsuch disclosed that he made between $250,000 and $500,000 off of the sale, but he left blank the box that would have informed the public of the identity of the person who paid the money, and who had a lot of lucrative business that Gorsuch would preside over, Politico reported.

Despite all the ethical lapses, at least some justices from across the ideological spectrum are indignant at the notion that their conduct should be scrutinized. When Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, in 2006 proposed an inspector general to keep an eye on the justices, liberal icon Ginsberg likened it to “Stalinism, saying that such oversight ‘is a really scary idea’ that ‘sounds to me very much like [how] the Soviet Union was,'” Roth of Fix the Court wrote.
************************************************** *******
Liberal or Conservative, I don't think this should be allowed

[Rajoo]

Thank you Human for the info, quite interesting and revealing.
Will look into this further because I am intrigued.

[RickeyM]

OH THE HORROR!

Fox News Flips Out Over Biden (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fox-news-flips-over-biden-200827146.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall)

I think I'll be buying a pair of Sketchers now.

[Chicks]

Faux "News" left confused by map that shows Republicans loving Barbie – despite conservative pundit backlash
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/fox-news-republicans-barbie-backlash-b2381103.html

The horror! ROFL. Goofballs of Whell's World occasionally won't be led around by their noses.

[RickeyM]

About that. This opinion piece on Salon lays bare the Reich-wing culture war and explains the Barbie Reaction.

The "Barbie" backlash isn't just cynical (https://www.salon.com/2023/07/25/the-barbie-backlash-isnt-just-cynical/?utm_source=ironsource)

Second, and more important, they use these cultural moments to reinforce a message of alienation and paranoia, separating their followers even further from the majority of everyday Americans and pushing them deeper into the world of hermetic right-wing nuttery.

IE, a cult.

[finnbow]

Trump lawyer claims bad headlines about him count as "election interference."

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-lawyer-claims-bad-headlines-172627394.html

This is what happens when you hire a lawyer whose most important previous work involved representing New Jersey parking garages.

[Rajoo]

https://youtu.be/50Q7tgb2OtQ?t=4

[RedTide]

I liked reading that Salon article. But if the intention of the right wing media is to radicalize and isolate people, how do you interact with people (for example on AK) to let them know that they are not isolated?

On AK, there is guy with a name like MuseChaser, who I think is a professional piano player, and fairly intelligent. But the guy overestimates his abilities as far as I can tell. Here he is in on an AI thread talking about being a hobbyist airplane pilot which makes him know more than the FAA folks: https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-artificial-intelligence-scared-yet.1014136/page-133#post-16525867.

On a Barbie thread he was ready to fight about a Barbie movie thread that the OP deleted: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/what-happened-to-the-oppenheimer-and-barbie-threads.1035642/#post-16533974

How do you make people like MuseChaser less radical?

[donquixote99]

I liked reading that Salon article. But if the intention of the right wing media is to radicalize and isolate people, how do you interact with people (for example on AK) to let them know that they are not isolated?

On AK, there is guy with a name like MuseChaser, who I think is a professional piano player, and fairly intelligent. But the guy overestimates his abilities as far as I can tell. Here he is in on an AI thread talking about being a hobbyist airplane pilot which makes him know more than the FAA folks: https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-artificial-intelligence-scared-yet.1014136/page-133#post-16525867.

On a Barbie thread he was ready to fight about a Barbie movie thread that the OP deleted: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/what-happened-to-the-oppenheimer-and-barbie-threads.1035642/#post-16533974

How do you make people like MuseChaser less radical?

Making a committed radical climb down is sometimes called deprograming. You aren't going to ever ever do it on a message board. Takes long term effort by someone who has a trusted in-person relationship. Only constructive thing you can do on a message board would be a brief contra message that shows the falseness of their beliefs, to help counter the effect of their messaging on third parties.

[barbara]

If Trump would keep his mouth shut it would eliminate most of the interfering headlines.

[Rajoo]

I liked reading that Salon article. But if the intention of the right wing media is to radicalize and isolate people, how do you interact with people (for example on AK) to let them know that they are not isolated?

On AK, there is guy with a name like MuseChaser, who I think is a professional piano player, and fairly intelligent. But the guy overestimates his abilities as far as I can tell. Here he is in on an AI thread talking about being a hobbyist airplane pilot which makes him know more than the FAA folks: https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-artificial-intelligence-scared-yet.1014136/page-133#post-16525867.

On a Barbie thread he was ready to fight about a Barbie movie thread that the OP deleted: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/what-happened-to-the-oppenheimer-and-barbie-threads.1035642/#post-16533974

How do you make people like MuseChaser less radical?

I am familiar with this guy, have tangled with him a few times on EV and alternate/reusable energy threads.

He has no formal technical training that I know of, yet puts up voluminous posts pretending to be Einstein. On technical topics if someone cannot tell me why, they are just bullshitting and I can spot them a mile away. He is either an idiot or a moron trying to come off as intelligent and well informed while failing badly. Ignore button is your friend.

If I am anti EV, anti solar, anti vaccine etc., I may let it be known that I am not a proponent and why. But I sure as hell don't get bent out of shape when you tell me that you love your EV or avoid going out in public without a mask. Its common sense.

And I agree with DQ, one cannot reason with a MAGAt. I have two close friends and an employee who are committed Trumpers. After five years, I don't bother discussing politics or any other informative topics. They will quote Faux till you are red in the face.

[RickeyM]

Making a committed radical climb down is sometimes called deprograming. You aren't going to ever ever do it on a message board. Takes long term effort by someone who has a trusted in-person relationship. Only constructive thing you can do on a message board would be a brief contra message that shows the falseness of their beliefs, to help counter the effect of their messaging on third parties.
I agree, we're not going to get through to them on message boards and social media. I have a family member that's gone down the rabbit hole. The recently made a comment about offshore windmills causing whale beachings. A couple of winters ago when Texas's power grid went tits-up she repeated the nonsense about windmill failures being the problem. I informed them that those sources gave a max of 10% of Texas's energy they seemed surprised. All this nuttery they heard on Reich-wing angertainment radio of course.
A question I have yet to get a straight answer for (ever since 2016) is if tRump is so great why does he lie so much? Not one straight answer.

[RedTide]

I agree, we're not going to get through to them on message boards and social media. I have a family member that's gone down the rabbit hole. The recently made a comment about offshore windmills causing whale beachings. A couple of winters ago when Texas's power grid went tits-up she repeated the nonsense about windmill failures being the problem. I informed them that those sources gave a max of 10% of Texas's energy they seemed surprised. All this nuttery they heard on Reich-wing angertainment radio of course.
A question I have yet to get a straight answer for (ever since 2016) is if tRump is so great why does he lie so much? Not one straight answer.

I wasn't sure how much I should push back on MuseChaser's BS. Call them out and they get further isolated, don't call them out and other like minded people take it as validation of the BS MuseChaser was saying. It's too easy for me to get too prickly in online discussion. There's a LateBoomer guy I've been pushing back on lately but I assume it is pointless.

I kind of had a fantasy that a Trump supporter and me being a lifelong Green Party supporter could find some common ground in a meaningless Barbie movie thread, but its never going to happen.

I usually don't participate in online discussions because they are too slow and easy to misinterpret. I got involved in that AI thread because loopstick was getting attacked, and it had gone on for 120 pages of blabbering nonsense. I couldn't believe that the OP then posted a video with a goldfish wearing a tinfoil hat as some kind of proof of the coming AI apocalypse. There was also some story about a "drone kills operator" story that was shown in the thread to be false, and the moderator and others kept talking about it as if the story were true. It was kind of eye opening how f*cked we are that there is no way these people are listening to any Faux news recants (like with this story: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/20/viral-story-migrants-displace-veterans-fake)

[finnbow]

Half the GOP doesn’t think Trump had sensitive documents at Mar-a-Lago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/27/trump-indictment-partisan/

Bizarro World

[RickeyM]

Not surprising, after all they still consider him a good president.

[Dondilion]

Not surprising, after all they still consider him a good president.

Sometimes it takes time to get the pluses and minuses together.

Check what Obama's university has concluded about him.

[init4fun]

There was also some story about a "drone kills operator" story that was shown in the thread to be false, and the moderator and others kept talking about it as if the story were true. )

Yeah, but then the moderator, when he realized the story was fiction, made a "oops, my bad" post" about mistakenly believing the story to be real. Do you remember any of this?


Your post;
"I don't think you are trolling me, but what are you talking about in post https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...ntelligence-scared-yet.1014136/post-16448694? The article states that the "drone kills operator" story was made up. And for a drone to turn against its operator means that the drone can reason through a problem independent of its programming. So the drone is able to reason and problem solve and a bunch of stuff that I've been trying to show AI is nowhere close to currently."


My reply;
"Yep, at first I thought it was an actual simulation of how the AI drone would act (or react), but then I saw what you pointed out back when that was posted, that it was actually a "mental exercise" and not an actual simulation. I must have forgotten to clarify my post back then :thumbsup:"

[RedTide]

Yeah, but then the moderator, when he realized the story was fiction, made a "oops, my bad" post" about mistakenly believing the story to be real. Do you remember any of this?


Your post;
"I don't think you are trolling me, but what are you talking about in post https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...ntelligence-scared-yet.1014136/post-16448694? The article states that the "drone kills operator" story was made up. And for a drone to turn against its operator means that the drone can reason through a problem independent of its programming. So the drone is able to reason and problem solve and a bunch of stuff that I've been trying to show AI is nowhere close to currently."


My reply;
"Yep, at first I thought it was an actual simulation of how the AI drone would act (or react), but then I saw what you pointed out back when that was posted, that it was actually a "mental exercise" and not an actual simulation. I must have forgotten to clarify my post back then :thumbsup:"

Poi's post literally in bold letters says: " Air Force Colonel Now Says Drone That Turned On Its Operator Was A “Thought Experiment”". Then the article in in huge letters says exactly the same thing. And you ignored both.

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-artificial-intelligence-scared-yet.1014136/page-107#post-16448694

It's good that you eventually acknowledge that it never happened.

I think the future is going to be full of examples of Fox News spreading untruths for days, and then issuing quick recants (that nobody sees) so that they don't get sued.

The AI thread is proof to me that the future is going to be a shitshow of misinformation.

I don't know if we are allowed to talk about gun laws on this site. In that AI thread, I can't tell if Brandon Mull is trolling everyone with a "why aren't you guys scared about real things like out of control guns" troll, or if he really thinks cell phones cause mass shootings.

[bobabode]

I don't know if we are allowed to talk about gun laws on this site..


Please do. I'm probably the only gun grabbing liberal hereabouts. Barge them out to the 500 fathom line and push them overboard. (grin)

[RedTide]

Please do. I'm probably the only gun grabbing liberal hereabouts. Barge them out to the 500 fathom line and push them overboard. (grin)

Lol - I searched for "gun" in this site and got zero search results. Mass shootings are probably the number one American issue in my estimation.

It sounds like you are pro guns. I'm 100% anti guns. America has 18 times more mass shootings than Canada. The only difference between Canada and the USA is gun control laws.

This Brandon Mull guy was worried that cell phone sensors were causing people to become mass shooters (or he is a great toller). Then Poi (who I think is on this site) posted something about maybe that is because of online radicalization, then a guy named spicer claimed it was because of prescription medication. By doing a comparison with Canada it is easy to disprove both ideas. It blows my mind how Americans don't see the obvious.

I was once on an American golf site, where guys were saying that they needed to carry guns while golfing in case of coyote attacks. I've run across 4 black bears camping and they have always run away. A 7 iron is a perfect weapon to a caveman for a coyote. It's such freaking BS.

The whole freaking "Gun Porn" thread on AK is an abomination. Good work normalizing something that is super f*cked up to the rest of the world.

Good work Americans in not accepting "gun control laws" as answer to anything. You are freaking exhausting.

[RedTide]

Yeah, but then the moderator, when he realized the story was fiction, made a "oops, my bad" post" about mistakenly believing the story to be real. Do you remember any of this?

It also seems to me from that thread that you and the OP spent zero effort in trying to disprove any "AI Apocalypse" ideas. Youtube is a huge echo chamber, so I get that maybe that's all you were fed. But holy smokes 120 pages later and you guys were pointing to a video with a goldfish with a tin foil hat, that had stories that you admit now were untrue, freaking science fiction poorly written by an AI that the OP accepted as truth, and you guys were and saying "what about this?" That video should have been embarrassing to anyone who actually looked into AI for 6 months. I was embarrassed for the OP.

120 pages and a goldfish with a tinfoil hat screams to me that we are f*cked.

[RedTide]

From page 1 of this thread: Now, in case there are some poor folks out there who believe this is true, as a service to our readers let me state that this is story is categorically false. The Trump folks have already stated that they will look to aggressively cut government spending. Since Mr. Christie insisted as a condition of acceptance for the ambassador role that the purchase of two adjacent seats for any government air travel to accommodate his girth was a requirement, Trump retracted the job offer.

I'm proud to support this effort to inform, and help counteract the corrosive impact of "fake news".

Keep blabbering USA.

[donquixote99]

Lol - I searched for "gun" in this site and got zero search results. Mass shootings are probably the number one American issue in my estimation.


Guns have been discussed bunches here. Search here has quirks, though. Won't search for short words like 'guns.' Try 'firearms.'

Here's a fairly recent thread:
https://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=13613

[init4fun]

It sounds like you are pro guns.

RedTide, you have totally misread Bob's post here, how can you possibly believe he's "pro gun" when he wants to dump ALL guns into the sea? Please read this clip from Bob's post and tell me what you think he means by this?

"Barge them out to the 500 fathom line and push them overboard."

It also seems to me from that thread that you and the OP spent zero effort in trying to disprove any "AI Apocalypse" ideas. Youtube is a huge echo chamber, so I get that maybe that's all you were fed. But holy smokes 120 pages later and you guys were pointing to a video with a goldfish with a tin foil hat, that had stories that you admit now were untrue, freaking science fiction poorly written by an AI that the OP accepted as truth, and you guys were and saying "what about this?" That video should have been embarrassing to anyone who actually looked into AI for 6 months. I was embarrassed for the OP.

120 pages and a goldfish with a tinfoil hat screams to me that we are f*cked.

Now, PLEASE, , , don't assign your beliefs onto my posts, you appear to be misunderstanding my position on the AI discussion, despite my making my position PERFECTLY clear during our last conversation on the subject. Do you remember this;


Redtide said:
"Here's another video for onwardjames and init4fun and whoever thinks we are headed for an "AI Apocalypse".

My response;

"Hi Redtide,

I'm firmly on the side of the discussion that believes AI can be good or evil, depending on what the humans who originate it desire.

Could be "AI Apocalypse" or "AI Eden", a 50 - 50 split on odds from where I sit ;)"




And lastly, the Man's name is "Pio" (Pio1980 to be exact) and not "Poi", , , in reading, both the devil, and complete understanding, are in the details......

"Then Poi (who I think is on this site) posted something about maybe that is because of online radicalization"

[Pio1980]

RedTide, you have totally misread Bob's post here, how can you possibly believe he's "pro gun" when he wants to dump ALL guns into the sea? Please read this clip from Bob's post and tell me what you think he means by this?

"Barge them out to the 500 fathom line and push them overboard."

8

Now, PLEASE, , , don't assign your beliefs onto my posts, you appear to be misunderstanding my position on the AI discussion, despite my making my position PERFECTLY clear during our last conversation on the subject. Do you remember this;


Redtide said:
"Here's another video for onwardjames and init4fun and whoever thinks we are headed for an "AI Apocalypse".

My response;

"Hi Redtide,

I'm firmly on the side of the discussion that believes AI can be good or evil, depending on what the humans who originate it desire.

Could be "AI Apocalypse" or "AI Eden", a 50 - 50 split on odds from where I sit ;)"




And lastly, the Man's name is "Pio" (Pio1980 to be exact) and not "Poi", , , in reading, both the devil, and complete understanding, are in the details......

"Then Poi (who I think is on this site) posted something about maybe that is because of online radicalization"

@RedTide, No offense taken.

[init4fun]

@RedTide, No offense taken.

Cool, I was just using it as an example of how easy it can be to misunderstand someone or be otherwise mistaken on online forums.

I never once said "Yep, that's it, AI is gonna kill us all for certain" and that's RedTide's accusation of me. He is misunderstood as to my belief, and hopefully now my previous post has set that straight.

[Rajoo]

Casino mogul Steve Wynn to pay $10M, cut gambling ties after Nevada sexual misconduct investigation

This guy was Finance Chairman for the RNC and why I am posting this here. As ususal he admitted to no wrongdoing and now lives in Florida where our other famous sexual predator lives. Florida may not be woke, but it certainly attracts the degenerates.

July 27, 2023, 5:40 PM PDT
By The Associated Press

LAS VEGAS — Casino mogul Steve Wynn has ended a yearslong legal fight with Nevada gambling regulators that started with claims of workplace sexual misconduct, agreeing to pay a $10 million fine and cut ties to the industry he helped shape in Las Vegas.

The Nevada Gaming Commission accepted a settlement Thursday to end the state’s look at allegations that led to Wynn’s resignation from his corporate empire in February 2018. Wynn admitted no wrongdoing. The decision was 4-0. Commission Chairwoman Jennifer Togliatti abstained from voting, citing a conflict arising from her previous work as a state court mediator.

The fine is the largest ever imposed by the commission, second only to $20 million paid in February 2019 by Wynn’s former company, Wynn Resorts Ltd., for failing to investigate the sexual misconduct claims made against Wynn.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/casino-mogul-steve-wynn-pay-10m-cut-gambling-ties-nevada-sexual-miscon-rcna96780

[RedTide]

RedTide, you have totally misread Bob's post here, how can you possibly believe he's "pro gun" when he wants to dump ALL guns into the sea? Please read this clip from Bob's post and tell me what you think he means by this?

"Barge them out to the 500 fathom line and push them overboard."



Now, PLEASE, , , don't assign your beliefs onto my posts, you appear to be misunderstanding my position on the AI discussion, despite my making my position PERFECTLY clear during our last conversation on the subject. Do you remember this;


Redtide said:
"Here's another video for onwardjames and init4fun and whoever thinks we are headed for an "AI Apocalypse".

My response;

"Hi Redtide,

I'm firmly on the side of the discussion that believes AI can be good or evil, depending on what the humans who originate it desire.

Could be "AI Apocalypse" or "AI Eden", a 50 - 50 split on odds from where I sit ;)"




And lastly, the Man's name is "Pio" (Pio1980 to be exact) and not "Poi", , , in reading, both the devil, and complete understanding, are in the details......

"Then Poi (who I think is on this site) posted something about maybe that is because of online radicalization"

My bad - I totally misinterpreted bobabode. I interpreted "gun grabbing liberal" as "proud liberal gun owner" and then something about an offshore confrontation that didn't make sense.

I remember your good/evil post. It seems like you think artificial general intelligence has already happened and drones can creatively come up with their own solutions: "I can totally understand the drone's thinking, it's mission was to destroy missile silos"

Do you think AGI has happened?

I'm polluting this thread, but it's kind of related to the "drone kills operator" fake news, and the lack of effort we put into disproving our beliefs.

[RedTide]

Cool, I was just using it as an example of how easy it can be to misunderstand someone or be otherwise mistaken on online forums.

I never once said "Yep, that's it, AI is gonna kill us all for certain" and that's RedTide's accusation of me. He is misunderstood as to my belief, and hopefully now my previous post has set that straight.


I'm not accusing you of thinking "AI will kill us". I'm worried that you and others in that thread think that AI and AGI are the same thing, and that AGI already exists. Once people believe something like "AGI exists" they don't make much of an effort to disprove that.

[init4fun]

I'm not accusing you of thinking "AI will kill us". I'm worried that you and others in that thread think that AI and AGI are the same thing, and that AGI already exists. Once people believe something like "AGI exists" they don't make much of an effort to disprove that.

Thank You RedTide for wanting to know my thoughts on this, and also thank you for forcing me to think about, and do some reading about, the status of this technology today. I have learned that the tech is not nearly as mature as we're being led to believe, most likely by the people who want us to invest money into it.

[Chicks]

Greg Gutfeld Suggests Trump Can Destroy Surveillance Video For Dumbfounding Reason
https://news.yahoo.com/greg-gutfeld-suggests-trump-destroy-133302335.html

Faux "News" host Greg Gutfeld on Friday severely downplayed new charges alleging that former President Donald Trump attempted to destroy evidence in his classified documents case.

“What’s wrong with that?” Gutfeld said on “The Five.”

Um, because you can't destroy evidence? Whell's World. :rolleyes:

[Rajoo]

^^I am beginning to see what Ricky has posted and this I believe is intentional. This has nothing to do with laws covering investigations and evidence. I am certain that the FBI informed Trump and his staff what not to do.

But for Fox, all they care about is protecting and championing Trump. So as long as enough people repeat that Trump had every right to delete the tapes, that is all that matters.

[RickeyM]

Greg Gutfeld Suggests Trump Can Destroy Surveillance Video For Dumbfounding Reason
https://news.yahoo.com/greg-gutfeld-suggests-trump-destroy-133302335.html



Um, because you can't destroy evidence? Whell's World. :rolleyes:
Oh great, now well have a week (or more) of MAGAt's repeating that nonsense that tRump had every right to destroy the evidence.

[Rajoo]

^^Like when the MAGAts claimed that the papers he took were his since he had planned on declassifying them. This was not Faux, but Trump himself IIRC who made the claim.

[Chicks]

'Real consequences': Report warns Trump could use Truth Social to 'inflict real-world damage'
https://www.rawstory.com/amp/truth-social-2662618207-2662618207

Yes. There are many MAGAMorons out there far more deranged than even Whell, who will do whatever this fascist tells them to do.

[Rajoo]

I am not sure he can mobilize his cult strictly via Truth Social since it only has 2 million active users, But if other alt-right outlets pick up and amplify his rants and cries for help, that is a different matter, but I still don't see it. Very few showed up for his cuffing ceremony in Miami Federal court though he asked for a show of power.

https://www.searchlogistics.com/learn/statistics/truth-social-statistics/

[finnbow]

Former Democratic FCC commissioner and PBS President Ervin Duggan and onetime Weekly Standard editor and Fox News contributor Bill Kristol have teamed up to back a Federal Communications Commission inquiry into whether Fox has the character qualifications to hold its 29 TV station licenses.

The Media and Democracy Project (MAD), citing Fox’s settlement of the Dominion Voting Systems lawsuit over election misinformation, earlier this month challenged the renewal of Fox’s WTFX Philadelphia, and by extension the company’s character qualifications for holding any TV station licenses at all.

https://www.nexttv.com/news/ervin-duggan-bill-kristol-back-fox-license-challenge-inquiry

[finnbow]

91% who trust Fox don't think Trump committed serious crimes

85% who trust Fox say Republicans must stand by Trump

83% who trust Fox don't see wrongdoing on 1/6

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/31/fox-trump-indictment-poll-desantis/

This is the kind of shit that should help making the case that the FCC broadcast for Fox should be revoked.

[whell]

91% who trust Fox don't think Trump committed serious crimes

85% who trust Fox say Republicans must stand by Trump

83% who trust Fox don't see wrongdoing on 1/6

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/31/fox-trump-indictment-poll-desantis/

This is the kind of shit that should help making the case that the FCC broadcast for Fox should be revoked.

What about this "kind of shit" from the NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/08/01/us/elections/times-siena-poll-registered-voters-crosstabs.html):

(Asked of Democratic primary voters) Regardless of who you prefer in the Democratic primary, do you think the Democratic Party should renominate Joe Biden as the party's candidate for president in 2024, or do you think the party should nominate a different candidate for president in 2024?

Nominate Joe Biden as 2024 presidential candidate: 45%
Nominate a different person as 2024 presidential candidate: 50%

Or this "kind of shit":

Thinking about the investigations into Donald Trump, do you think that Donald Trump has or has not committed any serious federal crimes?

Trump has committed serious federal crimes: 51%
Trump has not committed serious federal crimes: 35%
Don't know/Refused: 14%

I find it fascinating that even a NY Times poll doesn't find a plurality of folks who are convinced that the DOJ is making its case (when the "Not committed a serious crime" responses are paired with the "Don't know" responses), particularly the way this process has played out in the national press.

[Rajoo]

What about this "kind of shit" from the NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/08/01/us/elections/times-siena-poll-registered-voters-crosstabs.html):

(Asked of Democratic primary voters) Regardless of who you prefer in the Democratic primary, do you think the Democratic Party should renominate Joe Biden as the party's candidate for president in 2024, or do you think the party should nominate a different candidate for president in 2024?

Nominate Joe Biden as 2024 presidential candidate: 45%
Nominate a different person as 2024 presidential candidate: 50%

Or this "kind of shit":

Thinking about the investigations into Donald Trump, do you think that Donald Trump has or has not committed any serious federal crimes?

Trump has committed serious federal crimes: 51%
Trump has not committed serious federal crimes: 35%
Don't know/Refused: 14%

I find it fascinating that even a NY Times poll doesn't find a plurality of folks who are convinced that the DOJ is making its case (when the "Not committed a serious crime" responses are paired with the "Don't know" responses), particularly the way this process has played out in the national press.

What is wrong with the first question? Its Dem voters who are going to vote in the primary and asking them a pointed question is quite legitimate.

As to the second question/poll, that's opinion of the people, not based on evidence gathered by the investigating agencies. Now you want to conflate the two together, take a legal question and make this into a popular one. Only a court of law, not a court of public opinion can determine if he is guilty.

Your arguments are as dishonest as they can be.

[bobabode]

What is wrong with the first question? Its Dem voters who are going to vote in the primary and asking them a pointed question is quite legitimate.

As to the second question/poll, that's opinion of the people, not based on evidence gathered by the investigating agencies. Now you want to conflate the two together, take a legal question and make this into a popular one. Only a court of law, not a court of public opinion can determine if he is guilty.

Your arguments are as dishonest as they can be.

That's our Whell. He's never found a bad faith argument that he didn't love.

[Rajoo]

That's our Whell. He's never found a bad faith argument that he didn't love.

Polls are opinions and guess what they say about opinions?

Here is an example from Scientific American.

Do People Really Think Earth Might Be Flat?

A poll says lots of Millennials evidently do—and it’s not entirely clear why

“Just 66 percent of millennials firmly believe that the Earth is round,” read the summary from the pollster YouGov. Kids today, right? But it’s not only curmudgeons eager to complain about the younger generation who ought to find the survey of interest. For despite the recent prominence of flat-earthery among musicians and athletes, YouGov’s survey seems to have been the first systematic attempt to assess the American population’s views on the shape of the Earth.


Now there is irrefutable scientific proof from NASA that the earth is round, yet 34% of the millennials believe otherwise. So much for polls and people's opinions on science or the law. Best is, leave this to the experts and judiciary.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/do-people-really-think-earth-might-be-flat/

[bobabode]

Polls are opinions and guess what they say about opinions?

Here is an example from Scientific American.

Do People Really Think Earth Might Be Flat?



Now there is irrefutable scientific proof from NASA that the earth is round, yet 34% of the millennials believe otherwise. So much for polls and people's opinions on science or the law. Best is, leave this to the experts and judiciary.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/do-people-really-think-earth-might-be-flat/

Earth is an oblate spheroid.

[whell]

What is wrong with the first question? Its Dem voters who are going to vote in the primary and asking them a pointed question is quite legitimate.

Nothing. I just find it interesting that while Finn is laser-focused on Trump, the Dem's aren't that crazy about the current leader of their party.

As to the second question/poll, that's opinion of the people, not based on evidence gathered by the investigating agencies.

Yep, just like Finn's polling data was.

[finnbow]

Nothing. I just find it interesting that while Finn is laser-focused on Trump, the Dem's aren't that crazy about the current leader of their party.



Yep, just like Finn's polling data was.


I am not wild about some of the Biden policies, but unlike Trump he believes in democracy and that is the most important policy of all.

As for me being laser focused on Trump, he is the greatest internal threat to our democracy in over 150 years and he remains the prohibitive favorite to win the GOP nomination despite likely being out on bail for felonies in 4 jurisdictions during their convention.

[Rajoo]

Nothing. I just find it interesting that while Finn is laser-focused on Trump, the Dem's aren't that crazy about the current leader of their party.



Yep, just like Finn's polling data was.

Since we are questioning each other, how the h/f*ck did you get politicalchat.com instead of politicalchat.org

If I were Grumpy, I would sue you for defamation. (grin)

Btw, when I went to the politicalchat.com url, I got this is response.

POLITICALCHAT.COM IS NO LONGER FOR SALE ON BRANDBUCKET

[RickeyM]

What about this "kind of shit" from the NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/08/01/us/elections/times-siena-poll-registered-voters-crosstabs.html):
A NY Times poll. So what?

[whell]

Since we are questioning each other, how the h/f*ck did you get politicalchat.com instead of politicalchat.org


HA! Never noticed that. I think in all the years that this thread has been active, you're the only one to mention it. Just tried to fix it, but I don't think I can after all this time.

[whell]

A NY Times poll. So what?

Would you prefer an Associated Press poll?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/04/21/2024-election-biden-democrats-poll/11714259002/#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20%E2%80%93%20As%20President%2 0Joe%20Biden,for%20Public%20Affairs%20Research%20p oll

A couple months older, but the result is the same.

Only half of Democrats, or 47%, think Biden should run again in 2024, according to The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll. Overall, just 26% of Americans want him to run.

[whell]

I am not wild about some of the Biden policies, but unlike Trump he believes in democracy and that is the most important policy of all.

As for me being laser focused on Trump, he is the greatest internal threat to our democracy in over 150 years and he remains the prohibitive favorite to win the GOP nomination despite likely being out on bail for felonies in 4 jurisdictions during their convention.

I think the evidence is mounting that Biden might have Trump beat in terms of an "internal threat to our democracy". Biden likely cares about Democracy to the extent that he's able to profit from it.

[finnbow]

I think the evidence is mounting that Biden might have Trump beat in terms of an "internal threat to our democracy". Biden likely cares about Democracy to the extent that he's able to profit from it.


There is exactly zero evidence supporting your assertion. If you are pinning your hopes on James Comer and Gym Jordan, we will yet again get the last laugh at your expense. Their hearings so far have been laughably incompetent and just plain stupid and if they have proven anything at all it is that Joe Biden did not do a thing they said he did.

While Donald Trump stole our national secrets and attempted to steal an election by invalidating the votes of citizens in 7 states, the worst thing Joe Biden did was to answer phone calls from his troubled son.

[Rajoo]

I think the evidence is mounting that Biden might have Trump beat in terms of an "internal threat to our democracy". Biden likely cares about Democracy to the extent that he's able to profit from it.

All I can say is, cheap shot. Least I can say is no indictments.

[Human]

Polls are opinions and guess what they say about opinions?

Here is an example from Scientific American.

Do People Really Think Earth Might Be Flat?



Now there is irrefutable scientific proof from NASA that the earth is round, yet 34% of the millennials believe otherwise. So much for polls and people's opinions on science or the law. Best is, leave this to the experts and judiciary.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/do-people-really-think-earth-might-be-flat/

I think a lot if not most millennials who answered that way were answering a stupid question with a stupid answer, tongue in cheek.

[whell]

There is exactly zero evidence supporting your assertion. If you are pinning your hopes on James Comer and Gym Jordan, we will yet again get the last laugh at your expense. Their hearings so far have been laughably incompetent and just plain stupid and if they have proven anything at all it is that Joe Biden did not do a thing they said he did.

While Donald Trump stole our national secrets and attempted to steal an election by invalidating the votes of citizens in 7 states, the worst thing Joe Biden did was to answer phone calls from his troubled son.

The worst thing Biden did was put his troubled son in the position of point man for an influence-pedaling operation. Joe is "the brand".

As far as no evidence, there is no evidence if you're fully committed to ignoring it. I have no doubt that you're fully invested in ignoring the evidence in this case.

[finnbow]

The worst thing Biden did was put his troubled son in the position of point man for an influence-pedaling operation. Joe is "the brand".

As far as no evidence, there is no evidence if you're fully committed to ignoring it. I have no doubt that you're fully invested in ignoring the evidence in this case.

Discredited allegations are not evidence. The latest witness, Devon Archer, testified under oath that Hunter Biden had no business deals whatsoever with his father. I don't doubt that a drug-addled Hunter was trying to capitalize on his father's name, but there is zero evidence of criminality by Joe Biden.

If you were truly interested in influencing peddling and using one's name as a brand, one would think you should have jumped up and down about the Trump family's non-stop grifting from Ivanka's trademarks in China, Kushner's $2 billion from Saudi Arabia and Trump's hotel deal with Russia while welcoming their help in the 2016 election (not to mention Trump steaks, Trump water, Trump University, his bilking of the base with his "Stop the Steal" lies, etc.).

You're too dimwitted to realize that this entire Hunter Biden brouhaha is nothing but an attempt to distract people like you from Trump's rampant criminality with a lame attempt at whataboutism. Your willingness to believe (and propagate) this bullshit says volumes about your continuing fealty to a narcissistic sociopath, rapist and career criminal.

[finnbow]

The worst thing Biden did was put his troubled son in the position of point man for an influence-pedaling operation. Joe is "the brand".

As far as no evidence, there is no evidence if you're fully committed to ignoring it. I have no doubt that you're fully invested in ignoring the evidence in this case.

Here's a succinct article discussing why people like you embrace and propagate the Hunter Biden bullshit:

From Mr. Trump’s team to conservative media to the Republican Party leadership, the reaction to the latest blockbuster indictment accusing the former president of nothing short of trying to subvert democracy focused not on the evidence against him so much as the foibles and scandals of President Biden’s son.

The real outrage, Mr. Trump’s defenders maintained, is Hunter Biden’s shady business dealings. The Justice Department, they claimed, is only going after the former president to cover up for the current president. Mr. Trump is a victim persecuted by his enemies, so the argument goes, while Hunter Biden is a one-man crime wave who personifies the Washington swamp.

The wave of whataboutism from Trump world crested with this week’s indictment but has been building for months, a way of shifting attention from the former president’s kaleidoscopic legal troubles. The strategy provides the former president’s hard-core base a narrative to embrace that absolves him of any misconduct while muddying the waters enough to cause at least some independents and swing voters to throw up their hands out of a sense that, well, they all do it.

Never mind that Hunter Biden was not and is not seeking to be the president of the United States and that no hard evidence has emerged indicating that his father used his office improperly. Never mind that Mr. Trump’s family has intertwined personal business and public life for years. Or that the worst accusations against Hunter Biden, even if true, are hardly comparable to a plot by a sitting president to overturn an election and hold onto power...

J. Michael Luttig, a conservative former appeals court judge who was once a top Supreme Court candidate for President George W. Bush, said the Hunter Biden discussion was a political non sequitur.

“Trump committed the gravest crimes against the United States possible, save, possibly, treason,” he said. “There is simply no comparison whatsoever between the case against Trump and the case against Hunter Biden. It is silly even to speak of the two in the same breath.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/us/politics/trump-indictment-hunter-biden.html

[RickeyM]

I think the evidence is mounting that Biden might have Trump beat in terms of an "internal threat to our democracy". Biden likely cares about Democracy to the extent that he's able to profit from it.
At least you covered yourself with a qualifier on that one.

As far as no evidence, there is no evidence if you're fully committed to ignoring it. I have no doubt that you're fully invested in ignoring the evidence in this case.
How's the weather on your planet?

Discredited allegations are not evidence.
In whell's world they are.

If you were truly interested in influencing peddling...
He isn't, unless it includes the word Biden.

You're too dimwitted to realize that this entire Hunter Biden brouhaha is nothing but an attempt to distract people like you from Trump's rampant criminality with a lame attempt at whataboutism. Your willingness to believe (and propagate) this bullshit says volumes about your continuing fealty to a narcissistic sociopath, rapist and career criminal.
At least he isn't defending tRump (wink-wink).

Whell, congratulations on becoming the forum laughingstock. Your pitiful attempts at "owning da' libs" have become hilarious. Before I leave you to post a comical verbose defensive reply of all you do. I'll leave you with one last wish for today.

HAPPY ARRAIGNMENT DAY
4188

[finnbow]

Donald Trump desecrated the sacrifices and patriotism of the men and women who laid down their lives so America could endure and survive. He tried to take America away from all of us. Donald Trump isn’t just a failed and seditious president and an accused criminal, he is an abomination and every loyal citizen should be enraged by what he did. He assaulted our ancestors and our descendants, while trying to burn down our way of life and taking our right to choose our leaders from us. It cannot be forgiven, excused, rationalized or minimized. The propaganda of Fox News and all of its derivative media cannot hide the simple truth. Trump tried to destroy the United States. He is a domestic enemy.

https://steveschmidt.substack.com/p/what-he-did

[whell]

Discredited allegations are not evidence. The latest witness, Devon Archer, testified under oath that Hunter Biden had no business deals whatsoever with his father. I don't doubt that a drug-addled Hunter was trying to capitalize on his father's name, but there is zero evidence of criminality by Joe Biden.

If you were truly interested in influencing peddling and using one's name as a brand, one would think you should have jumped up and down about the Trump family's non-stop grifting from Ivanka's trademarks in China, Kushner's $2 billion from Saudi Arabia and Trump's hotel deal with Russia while welcoming their help in the 2016 election (not to mention Trump steaks, Trump water, Trump University, his bilking of the base with his "Stop the Steal" lies, etc.).

You're too dimwitted to realize that this entire Hunter Biden brouhaha is nothing but an attempt to distract people like you from Trump's rampant criminality with a lame attempt at whataboutism. Your willingness to believe (and propagate) this bullshit says volumes about your continuing fealty to a narcissistic sociopath, rapist and career criminal.

I love how you think I'm taking your seriously when you:

- complain about "whataboutism" while engaging in it yourself
- tell me that I'm "dimwitted" because I'm not obsessed with Trump like you are.
- tell me that I have "continuing fealty" to Trump when I've already told you I have no interest in voting for the guy.
- completely mischaracterize what Devon Archer said under oath.

As far as Archer's testimony, you'd have to be pretty dimwitted to assume that Joe Biden was not involved in closing the deal.

From the AP (https://apnews.com/article/hunter-biden-congress-oversight-republicans-devon-archer-4b706443a04e0c40a80c65e24d7d69dc#:~:text=Both%20Re publican%20and%20Democratic%20lawmakers,spoke%20ab out%20any%20business%20dealings.%E2%80%9D):

Both Republican and Democratic lawmakers inside the closed-door interview said Archer testified that over the span of 10 years, Hunter Biden put his father on the phone around 20 times while in the company of associates but “never once spoke about any business dealings.”

New York Rep. Dan Goldman, who was representing Democrats inside the room, told reporters after the interview that Archer testified that Hunter sold the “illusion of access” to his father by taking credit for things his father did as vice president that he had no part in.

These calls were meant to prove to the potential buyer that Hunter could get his dad on the phone any time he wanted. You can spin this and say that Joe was just taking a friendly call from his son.

But that would discount the fact that it is extraordinarily difficult to get to the President or Vice President of the United States. The Secret Service must plan and coordinate all of the President's or VP's activities, including routing incoming calls through a secure line.

To assume that the senior Biden did not know the purpose of these calls and who was on the phone with Hunter and why, you'd have to be pretty dimwitted.

[finnbow]

I love how you think I'm taking your seriously when you:

- complain about "whataboutism" while engaging in it yourself
- tell me that I'm "dimwitted" because I'm not obsessed with Trump like you are.
- tell me that I have "continuing fealty" to Trump when I've already told you I have no interest in voting for the guy.
- completely mischaracterize what Devon Archer said under oath.

As far as Archer's testimony, you'd have to be pretty dimwitted to assume that Joe Biden was not involved in closing the deal.

From the AP (https://apnews.com/article/hunter-biden-congress-oversight-republicans-devon-archer-4b706443a04e0c40a80c65e24d7d69dc#:~:text=Both%20Re publican%20and%20Democratic%20lawmakers,spoke%20ab out%20any%20business%20dealings.%E2%80%9D):

Both Republican and Democratic lawmakers inside the closed-door interview said Archer testified that over the span of 10 years, Hunter Biden put his father on the phone around 20 times while in the company of associates but “never once spoke about any business dealings.”

New York Rep. Dan Goldman, who was representing Democrats inside the room, told reporters after the interview that Archer testified that Hunter sold the “illusion of access” to his father by taking credit for things his father did as vice president that he had no part in.

These calls were meant to prove to the potential buyer that Hunter could get his dad on the phone any time he wanted. You can spin this and say that Joe was just taking a friendly call from his son.

But that would discount the fact that it is extraordinarily difficult to get to the President or Vice President of the United States. The Secret Service must plan and coordinate all of the President's or VP's activities, including routing incoming calls through a secure line.

To assume that the senior Biden did not know the purpose of these calls and who was on the phone with Hunter and why, you'd have to be pretty dimwitted.

Even if Joe Biden knew exactly what Hunter was up to (for which there is no hard evidence), there also has been no evidence of any criminality of any type on the part of Joe Biden. Your Dear Leader, OTOH, will soon be facing felony indictments in 4 jurisdictions for very serious crimes, indeed the most serious crimes ever perpetrated by any American politician ever.

As the esteemed Judge Luttig states, your argument is silly.

[Chicks]

The worst thing Biden did was put his troubled son in the position of point man for an influence-pedaling operation. Joe is "the brand".

As far as no evidence, there is no evidence if you're fully committed to ignoring it. I have no doubt that you're fully invested in ignoring the evidence in this case.

You sound as idiotic as Donny’s election denial lawyers, who, BTW, lost every single one of their lolsuits, and will almost certainly be disbarred, if not already disbarred.

[Rajoo]

In my opinion, just refuting the so called influence peddling operation that is being raised here is in itself giving the topic credibility. If there was one, should have been identified a long time ago. There was none identified.

[RickeyM]

In my opinion, just refuting the so called influence peddling operation that is being raised here is in itself giving the topic credibility. If there was one, should have been identified a long time ago. There was none identified.
When the tRumpenfurer is really in deep shit they grab at any straws they can in the attempt to deflect. Notice how the very same ones who clung to the lie that the 2020 election wa stolen from tRump now are harping on Biden's "supposedly" criminal behavior/activities. Frustrating times for those folks. If tRump is prevented from holding office look who their alternatives are.

https://i.redd.it/fvk4d4w2sll91.jpg

[RickeyM]

Even if Joe Biden knew exactly what Hunter was up to (for which there is no hard evidence), there also has been no evidence of any criminality of any type on the part of Joe Biden. Your Dear Leader, OTOH, will soon be facing felony indictments in 4 jurisdictions for very serious crimes, indeed the most serious crimes ever perpetrated by any American politician ever.

As the esteemed Judge Luttig states, your argument is silly.
They got nothing on him! They've been trying to get him ever since he put on his shoes the morning he came down the escalator. Whaaa-whaaaa

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/940/347/125.jpg

[RickeyM]

As far as Archer's testimony, you'd have to be pretty dimwitted to assume that Joe Biden was not involved in closing the deal.

These calls were meant to prove to the potential buyer that Hunter could get his dad on the phone any time he wanted. You can spin this and say that Joe was just taking a friendly call from his son.

To assume that the senior Biden did not know the purpose of these calls and who was on the phone with Hunter and why, you'd have to be pretty dimwitted.

https://i.imgflip.com/2hzgi2.jpg

[finnbow]

Devon Archer said the opposite of what Republicans claimed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/03/devon-archer-transcript-biden/

Whell and his fellow travelers believe that concocting and propagating lies about Hunter Biden (and by extension Joe Biden) somehow discredits/undermines the criminal charges Trump faces. Hunter Biden's guilt or innocence have exactly zero bearing or relevance to Trump's myriad crimes.

[RickeyM]

Devon Archer said the opposite of what Republicans claimed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/03/devon-archer-transcript-biden/

Whell and his fellow travelers believe that concocting and propagating lies about Hunter Biden (and by extension Joe Biden) somehow discredits/undermines the criminal charges Trump faces. Hunter Biden's guilt or innocence have exactly zero bearing or relevance to Trump's myriad crimes.
What, isn't everyone as crooked as the tRump crime family?

[finnbow]

I suppose Whell feels an obligation to defend Trump because Trump purposely got indicted for him.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230803/3c0ac68d19335384d1a53e08915c9a45.jpg

[Rajoo]

For a MAGAt Trumper which is worse?
That Trump lost the election in 2020 or that he lost the election to Joe Biden?
Obviously the stolen election story did not pass muster in our justice system. Every lawsuit summarily got thrown out of court. So what is left?
So who can they go after, because fight they must to keep the Orange brat happy.
The Biden family of course.

I cannot wait till the J6 case begins in DC and actual facts are laid out to show the world who the real crook in our midst is. Perhaps TIME will release a special issue titled "Crook of The Year".

And MAGA my ass.

[Chicks]

Devon Archer said the opposite of what Republicans claimed
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/03/devon-archer-transcript-biden/

The Repube "bombshell" is a dud. Only the morons of Whell's World believe otherwise.

[Chicks]

Here It Is, Folks: The Most Unhinged Reaction to Trump’s Jan. 6 Indictment
‘I NEED REINFORCEMENTS!’
Take a deep breath, Steve Deace, former NeverTrumper, it’s going to be OK. But maybe not for Trump.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/here-it-is-folks-the-most-unhinged-reaction-to-trumps-jan-6-indictment

Believe it or not, there are people out there more demented than Whell.

[finnbow]

Devon Archer said the opposite of what Republicans claimed
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/03/devon-archer-transcript-biden/

The Repube "bombshell" is a dud. Only the morons of Whell's World believe otherwise.

Yep, and the transcript is now out.

Hunter tried to sell family name but Joe Biden never talked business, says ex-associate. Devon Archer’s testimony to House Oversight investigators included his assertion that Hunter Biden was not able to influence his father’s actions or policy decisions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/03/hunter-biden-influence-probe/

Per Philip Bump: The just-released transcript of the Devon Archer testimony just completely eviscerates what Comer and Jordan were saying on TV. Totally embarrassing.

So much for Whell's fever dreams of influence peddling. Meanwhile, Dear Leader gets the OJ treatment as news helicopters hover over his motorcade to and from the courthouse for his arraignment on 3 conspiracies associated with efforts to steal the election (plus another for witness tampering).

[RickeyM]

Yep, and the transcript is now out.

Hunter tried to sell family name but Joe Biden never talked business, says ex-associate. Devon Archer’s sworn testimony to House Oversight investigators included his assertion that Hunter Biden was not able to influence his father’s actions or policy decisions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/03/hunter-biden-influence-probe/

Per Philip Bump: The just-released transcript of the Devon Archer testimony just completely eviscerates what Comer and Jordan were saying on TV. Totally embarrassing.

So much for Whell's fever dreams of influence peddling. Meanwhile, Dear Leader gets the OJ treatment as news helicopters hover over his motorcade to and from the courthouse for his arraignment on 3 conspiracies associated with efforts to steal the election (plus another for witness tampering).
Tut-tut, a boy can have his dreams. Who are we to tell him not everyone behaves like the DJT Crime Klan. Current events are tough a nut in whell's world.

[finnbow]

Tut-tut, a boy can have his dreams. Who are we to tell him not everyone behaves like the DJT Crime Klan. Current events are tough a nut in whell's world.

Comey and Jordan will throw out another squirrel for him to chase. It beats having to face the fact that the cult of Trump is imploding.

[whell]

Even if Joe Biden knew exactly what Hunter was up to (for which there is no hard evidence), there also has been no evidence of any criminality of any type on the part of Joe Biden.


If Joe Biden knew exactly what Hunter was up to, he was then a willing partner in an influence-pedaling enterprise. As far as "no evidence", there's plenty of it. For example: https://nypost.com/2021/05/26/hunter-biden-arranged-secret-dinner-with-business-partners-and-vp-joe/

[finnbow]

If Joe Biden knew exactly what Hunter was up to, he was then a willing partner in an influence-pedaling enterprise. As far as "no evidence", there's plenty of it. For example: https://nypost.com/2021/05/26/hunter-biden-arranged-secret-dinner-with-business-partners-and-vp-joe/

Pro tip: The NY Post is not a newspaper. It's a wingnut scandal sheet for those who also trust the National Enquirer to bring them the news.

I predicted that we would have the last laugh at your expense when it became clear that the Comer/Jordan follies again struck out. I just didn't know it would happen so quickly.

Comer knew before his latest hearing that it would be a bust. He didn't even show up for it, but then went on Hannity that night to spew the same lies you're spewing as if they were just revealed in the hearing when, in fact, the hearing clearly contradicted his (and your) breathless assertions.

[bobabode]

If Joe Biden knew exactly what Hunter was up to, he was then a willing partner in an influence-pedaling enterprise. As far as "no evidence", there's plenty of it. For example: https://nypost.com/2021/05/26/hunter-biden-arranged-secret-dinner-with-business-partners-and-vp-joe/

If that's your idea of evidence, you are worse off than I imagined, Mike. No where in that NY Post writer's hackneyed fever dream was there anything remotely like evidence. (rolls eyes)

The next time you're called for jury duty do the state of Michigan a solid and show them the above claim you've made.

[Chicks]

If Joe Biden knew exactly what Hunter was up to, he was then a willing partner in an influence-pedaling enterprise. As far as "no evidence", there's plenty of it. For example: https://nypost.com/2021/05/26/hunter-biden-arranged-secret-dinner-with-business-partners-and-vp-joe/

Evidence is what Jack Smith has against your Dear Leader, dipstick. A biased, poorly written article in a scandal sheet like the ridiculous NY Pissed isn’t remotely “evidence”.

[finnbow]

Evidence is what Jack Smith has against your Dear Leader, dipstick. A biased, poorly written article in a scandal sheet like the ridiculous NY Pissed isn’t remotely “evidence”.

No shit. Now at least we know where Whell gets his news and how it informs his ridiculous counterfactual takes on events of the day.

Whell seems completely oblivious to the notion that "the truth will set you free." He seems more than willing to remain inside the fictional bubble that Trump and his compliant media handmaids have created to convince people like him that the Cheeto Benito is still "a very stable genius." He simply doesn't grasp that breaking away from this echo chamber of wingnut propaganda, while uncomfortable in the moment, will ultimately prove liberating.

[RickeyM]

If Joe Biden knew exactly what Hunter was up to, he was then a willing partner in an influence-pedaling enterprise. As far as "no evidence", there's plenty of it.

Pro tip: The NY Post is not a newspaper. It's a wingnut scandal sheet for those who also trust the National Enquirer to bring them the news.

I predicted that we would have the last laugh at your expense when it became clear that the Comer/Jordan follies again struck out. I just didn't know it would happen so quickly.

Evidence is what Jack Smith has against your Dear Leader, dipstick. A biased, poorly written article in a scandal sheet like the ridiculous NY Pissed isn’t remotely “evidence”.

Fear not dear whell, Jim & Gym will get to the bottom of this...

4189

[donquixote99]

He seems more than willing to remain inside the fictional bubble that Trump and his compliant media handmaids have created to convince people like him that the Cheeto Benito is still "a very stable genius.

Whell denies being so convinced, and that is one point on which I believe him. That of course means that he just acts like a true believer, a lot, in order to aggravate people around here, which is his sick pay-off.

[Rajoo]

If Joe Biden knew exactly what Hunter was up to, he was then a willing partner in an influence-pedaling enterprise. As far as "no evidence", there's plenty of it. For example: https://nypost.com/2021/05/26/hunter-biden-arranged-secret-dinner-with-business-partners-and-vp-joe/

Why didn't the previous administration investigate this?

It was one party rule the first two years, Trump had nothing to do other than tweeting insults and lining his pockets, so why now? That alone loses 99% of credibility and these wild accusations are just to throw some dirt at the current president while the previous one is busy collecting indictments.

Georgia, where are yours?

[RickeyM]

He seems more than willing to remain inside the fictional bubble that Trump and his compliant media handmaids have created to convince people like him that the Cheeto Benito is still "a very stable genius."

A "fictional bubble" you say?

https://i.imgflip.com/1op6r8.jpg

[donquixote99]

A "fictional bubble" you say?

https://i.imgflip.com/1op6r8.jpg

LOL!

But I've edited my post to make clear that the part you highlighted was a quote from Finn. :)

[whell]

Pro tip: The NY Post is not a newspaper. It's a wingnut scandal sheet for those who also trust the National Enquirer to bring them the news.

Pro-tip: If you're going to post links to articles from Media Matters, as you did earlier in this thread, as if Media Matters is a credible news source, you should also assume that your critiques of other news outlets will not be taken seriously, laughed at, deemed hypocritical, or all of the above.

I predicted that we would have the last laugh at your expense when it became clear that the Comer/Jordan follies again struck out. I just didn't know it would happen so quickly.

Comer knew before his latest hearing that it would be a bust. He didn't even show up for it, but then went on Hannity that night to spew the same lies you're spewing as if they were just revealed in the hearing when, in fact, the hearing clearly contradicted his (and your) breathless assertions.

What "breathless assertions" of mine did the hearing contradict? Did you even read the transcript of Archer's testimony? Or are you getting your "interpretation" of Archer's testimony from Media Matters? (insert eye roll here).

[finnbow]

Pro-tip: If you're going to post links to articles from Media Matters, as you did earlier in this thread, as if Media Matters is a credible news source, you should also assume that your critiques of other news outlets will not be taken seriously, laughed at, deemed hypocritical, or all of the above.

What "breathless assertions" of mine did the hearing contradict? Did you even read the transcript of Archer's testimony? Or are you getting your "interpretation" of Archer's testimony from Media Matters? (insert eye roll here).

Last time I checked Media Matters didn't settle the largest media defamation lawsuit in history like the owner of the NYPost recently did (with another large defamation payout likely in store). The NYPost is Fox News for those who can (barely) read.

Also, the links I posted discrediting Comer's nonsense were from the Pulitzer Prize winning Washington Post, not some wingnut scandal sheet like the NYPost (something you characterized as "evidence."). LOL.

Another pro tip: You would not be laughingly discredited so frequently if you got your news from the WashPost instead of the NYPost.

[RickeyM]

Last time I checked Media Matters didn't settle the largest media defamation lawsuit in history like the owner of the NYPost recently did (with another large defamation payout likely in store). The NYPost is Fox News for those who can (barely) read.

Also, the links I posted discrediting Comer's nonsense were from the Pulitzer Prize winning Washington Post, not some wingnut scandal sheet like the NYPost (something you characterized as "evidence."). LOL.

Another pro tip: You would not be laughingly discredited so frequently if you got your news from the WashPost instead of the NYPost.
Ahhh that leftist rag the Washington Post (eyeroll). It's a good thing for folks like you that this thread was created. The old "my source is credible and yours is not" argument. That he will go to great lengths to find a source who's opinion agrees with his narrative. At least he's consistent. Consistently the forum laughingstock that is.

[Rajoo]

Ahhh that leftist rag the Washington Post (eyeroll). It's a good thing for folks like you that this thread was created. The old "my source is credible and yours is not" argument. That he will go to great lengths to find a source who's opinion agrees with his narrative. At least he's consistent. Consistently the forum laughingstock that is.

A while back a MAGAt on AK was arguing with the Mod that his quotes from Fox News should be respected since they are the most watched cable News channel. They have a viewership of 1.1 Million in a country of 300+ Million. (double eye roll).

[whell]

Last time I checked Media Matters didn't settle the largest media defamation lawsuit in history like the owner of the NYPost recently did (with another large defamation payout likely in store). The NYPost is Fox News for those who can (barely) read.

Also, the links I posted discrediting Comer's nonsense were from the Pulitzer Prize winning Washington Post, not some wingnut scandal sheet like the NYPost (something you characterized as "evidence."). LOL.

Another pro tip: You would not be laughingly discredited so frequently if you got your news from the WashPost instead of the NYPost.

Finn, apparently getting your facts straight is about as important to you as it is to Media Matters. I quote from the Washington Post and the NY Times. In fact, one of your fellow travelers on this forums recently commented "So what?" when I posted from a NY Times poll.

Please try to at least get something right if you're going to comment about it. LOL.

As far as Bump's article in WaPo, Bump is an absolute tool. And if you're going to take Bump's characterization of Archer's testimony at face value, I can only conclude that you didn't actually read the transcipt of the testimony. You're simply parrotting what a spinmeister like Bump is telling you.

Let me help you a bit. Here's a link to the transcript. You might want to have a look at it: https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Devon-Archer-Transcript.pdf

Here's just one of the many interesting comments Archer made. This one is interesting because it came from a part of Archer's testimony where Goldman was questioning him. In context, Archer kept making references to "the brand". At one point, Archer was asked to confirm who or what exactly was he talking about when he referred to "the brand". It wasn't just the Biden family name. Specifically, Archer was referring to Joe Biden. You can see this on page 30 of the transcipt of you're remotely interested.

Any, back to Goldman and Archer's exchange, this on page 105:

A No. My only thought is that I think Burisma would have gone out of
25 business if it didn't have the brand attached to it. That's my, like, only honest opinion.

1 But I have no basis for any -- never heard any conversations --
2 Mr. Goldman. But that's different than Joe Biden's action.
3 Mr. Archer. Right.
4 Mr. Goldman. You're just talking about that Hunter was on the board.
5 Mr. Archer. Right. And I think that's why --
6 Mr. Goldman. And so --
7 Mr. Archer. -- it was able to survive for as long as it did.
8 Mr. Goldman. By -- because of additional capital or --
9 Mr. Archer. Just because of the brand.
10 Mr. Goldman. Well, I don't understand. How does that have an impact?
11 Mr. Archer. Well, the capabilities to navigate D.C. that they were able to, you
12 know, basically be in the news cycle. And I think that preserved them from a, you know,
13 from a longevity standpoint. That's like my honest -- that's like really what I -- that's like
14 how I think holistically.
15 Mr. Goldman. But how would that work?
16 Mr. Archer. Because people would be intimidated to mess with them.
17 Mr. Goldman. In what way?
18 Mr. Archer. Legally.

So, "the brand's" association from Burisma acted as a legal shield. Intimidation. Were they intimidated by Hunter? No. They were intimidated by "the brand": Joe Biden.

Now, here's why actually reading the transcript, rather than taking a fool like Bump at face value, might be important. Bump, in the article you linked to, said:

Archer agreed that the fact that “Shokin did not pursue corruption investigations against Burisma’s owner, effectively shielding the owner from prosecution,” as Goldman articulated it, meant that Shokin’s ouster put Burisma and Zlochevsky at more risk, not less.

The problem, Finn, is that's not really what Archer said. This starting on page 106:

Mr. Archer. That was like -- that was a narrative that was -- that was told to me
3 by various of the D.C. team, that the firing of Shokin was bad for Burisma because he was
4 under control.
5 Mr. Goldman. What did you understand "under control" to mean?
6 Mr. Archer. Meaning that they were going to maybe give a slap on the wrist as
7 opposed to --
8 Mr. Goldman. Okay.
9 Mr. Archer. -- you know, seize all his assets.
10 Mr. Goldman. Because there was a lot of characterizations by the Republicans in
11 the first part about a Ukrainian investigation.
12 Mr. Archer. Uh-huh.
13 Mr. Goldman. But you're not actually aware of any investigation by the
14 prosecutor general in Ukraine into Burisma which is different from the
15 British investigation.
Mr. Archer. Right. The British investigation I was aware of. I think in the
17 early stages, like the visa and the British, I was made aware of. And then it kind of
18 my -- I had other responsibilities and I was less informed as we moved forward and Blue
19 Star kind of was more involved.
20 Mr. Goldman. Was taken over on that --
21 Mr. Archer. Yeah.
22 Mr. Goldman. -- on that angle of things.
23 Mr. Archer. I was, like, an FYI at first, and then I became less FYI as time
24 progressed.
25 Mr. Goldman. So was it -- Shokin was ultimately removed from office.


107
1 Mr. Archer. Right.
2 Mr. Goldman. Was that a bad thing for -- and the Burisma leaders felt like that
3 would be bad for them?
4 Mr. Archer. That was what I was told.
5 Mr. Goldman. Okay. Maybe go to the --
6 Mr. Schwartz. Not by the Burisma leaders.
7 Mr. Archer. Exactly. Not by the Burisma leaders. I was told by the D.C. team.

The key here, and the part that Bump is mischaracterizing - likely on purpose - is that Archer didn't, as Bump claims: agree that the fact that “Shokin did not pursue corruption investigations against Burisma’s owner, effectively shielding the owner from prosecution." We was simply restating what he heard from someone else.

So, Goldman states that "Shokin did not pursue corruption investigations against Burisma’s owner, effectively shielding the owner from prosecution", and Bump wants that to be the story. So, Bump finds a way to say that Archer confimed it, which is a lie, when all Archer did was say that this wasn't what he heard from Burisma leadereship, it was what the "D.C. team" told him.

Now, if you're really up for a dose of reality, do a Google search on Archer's testimony and see what comes up. Many of the articles lead with a statement like "Hunter Biden sold the "illusion of access to his father". What's fascinating to me is that Archer never used those words. That phrase came from a question that Goldman asked Archer. Have a look at page 116 and you can confirm this:

Q So when you talk about selling the brand --
21 A Uh-huh.
22 Q -- it's not about selling access to his father. It's about selling the illusion of
23 access to his father. Is that fair?
24 A Is that fair? IA Because there -- there is -- there are touch points and contact points that I 2 can't deny that happened, but nothing of material was discussed. But I can't go on
3 record saying that there was -- there was communications. mean, yeah, that is -- I think that's -- that's almost fair.

Throughout the transcript, you can also confirm that Archer never said that Hunter never spoke to Joe Biden about the business. What Archer says is that he never heard Hunter speak to Joe about it. That doesn't mean that such conversations never happened.

The Pultizer Prize winning Washington Post apparently doesn't care that they employee a lying sack of crap like Bump.
25 Q Almost fair. Why almost fair?

[Chicks]

Whell, you have some sort of psychological issue. OCD, perhaps? Get yourself diagnosed, please, for your own good.

[Chicks]

Republicans’ big Biden bombshell: 'He doesn’t have much expertise in the world of business'
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/republicans-big-biden-bombshell-he-doesnt-have-much-expertise-in-the-world-of-business-143919739.html

Republicans keep salivating over so-called witnesses who might link President Biden with corruption involving his troubled son Hunter. Well, they finally found a whopper.

“He doesn’t have much expertise in the world of business,” Devon Archer, former business partner of Hunter Biden, admitted in white-hot testimony before Congress this week.

“Joe Biden, that is?” a staff lawyer asked.

“Right,” Archer confirmed.

It’s not exactly the graft Republicans were hoping for, but hey, it’s bad enough. Former President Donald Trump, who could be Biden’s opponent in the 2024 campaign, claims to be an ace businessman, with six bankruptcies to prove it. For those who prefer criminality in a candidate, like half the Republican Party, Trump’s cornering that market, too.

ROFL.

[Rajoo]

As a Businessman, Trump Was the Biggest Loser of All

Last October, the New York Times published a monumental exposé of how Donald Trump and other members of the Trump family engaged in sham financial schemes during the nineteen-nineties, including what the newspaper described as “instances of outright fraud,” to avoid paying hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes on the real-estate fortune that Fred Trump passed on to his children. Last month, the three reporters who wrote the story—David Barstow, Susanne Craig, and Russ Buettner—were awarded the Pulitzer Prize in explanatory reporting.

On Tuesday evening, the Times dropped another story that delved into the President’s financial past. Written by Buettner and Craig, and based upon “printouts from Mr. Trump’s official Internal Revenue Service transcripts” that the reporters obtained, the story further undermined the assiduously promoted fiction that Trump, before he became a reality-television star and entered politics, was a highly successful self-made businessman. He was anything but.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/as-a-businessman-trump-was-the-biggest-loser-of-all

[finnbow]

Finn, apparently getting your facts straight is about as important to you as it is to Media Matters. I quote from the Washington Post and the NY Times. In fact, one of your fellow travelers on this forums recently commented "So what?" when I posted from a NY Times poll.

Please try to at least get something right if you're going to comment about it. LOL.

As far as Bump's article in WaPo, Bump is an absolute tool. And if you're going to take Bump's characterization of Archer's testimony at face value, I can only conclude that you didn't actually read the transcipt of the testimony. You're simply parrotting what a spinmeister like Bump is telling you.

Let me help you a bit…

Damn, fella. You are truly obsessed with Hunter Biden. In an effort to assuage your concerns, I promise not to vote for him as president.

Watching you swallow the latest GOP attempt to distract the base away from the ongoing legal troubles of Trump and his criminal accomplices is truly a sight to behold. Your mind is a terrible thing to lose and your long-winded post confirms my assertion that the longer a post of yours is, the more desperate you are to recover from an embarrassingly stupid position.

Get back with me when Joe Biden is indicted for multiple felonies. Meanwhile, I will stick with watching your Dear Leader go down in flames.

[RickeyM]

Whell, you have some sort of psychological issue. OCD, perhaps? Get yourself diagnosed, please, for your own good.
Wow, that's the whellian "Because they don't have proof it didn't happen means it did happen." logic. I the real world, the one the courts operate in, it's proof (evidence) or it didn't happen. In MAGA-land it's guilty unless you can prove you're innocent.

[RickeyM]

Damn, boy. You are truly obsessed with Hunter Biden. I’ll make sure not to vote for him as president.

Watching you swallow the latest GOP attempt to distract the base away from the ongoing legal troubles of Trump and his MAGA minions across the country is truly a sight to behold. Your mind is a terrible thing to lose.

Get back with me when Joe Biden is indicted for multiple felonies. Meanwhile, I will stick with watching your Dear Leader go down in flames.
Pass the popcorn Finn

https://media.tenor.com/images/e834b4eea4b3f48e0f80c6d93cdef8ad/tenor.gif

[whell]

Whell, you have some sort of psychological issue. OCD, perhaps? Get yourself diagnosed, please, for your own good.

As a Businessman, Trump Was the Biggest Loser of All


https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/as-a-businessman-trump-was-the-biggest-loser-of-all

Damn, fella. You are truly obsessed with Hunter Biden. In an effort to assuage your concerns, I promise not to vote for him as president.

Watching you swallow the latest GOP attempt to distract the base away from the ongoing legal troubles of Trump and his criminal accomplices is truly a sight to behold. Your mind is a terrible thing to lose and your long-winded post confirms my assertion that the longer a post of yours is, the more desperate you are to recover from an embarrassingly stupid position.

Get back with me when Joe Biden is indicted for multiple felonies. Meanwhile, I will stick with watching your Dear Leader go down in flames.

You guys are hillarious. Following the typical pattern for your responses:

1) Insult the poster.
2) Ignore the facts.
3) Mischaracterize the poster's comments.
4) Change the topic.

Bravo.

[RickeyM]

You guys are hillarious. Following the typical pattern for your responses:

1) Insult the poster.
2) Ignore the facts.
3) Mischaracterize the poster's comments.
4) Change the topic.

Bravo.
This from the forum laughingstock. Say what you will, he never disappoints.

[whell]

This from the forum laughingstock. Say what you will, he never disappoints.

See post 3414, item 1.

[donquixote99]

You guys are hillarious. Following the typical pattern for your responses:

1) Insult the poster.
2) Ignore the facts.
3) Mischaracterize the poster's comments.
4) Change the topic.

Bravo.

You are the expert in all the above. You do it constantly. You did it when you posted the above.

Here, by item:

1. Insulted the posters and others by calling them hilarious.

2. You ignore that, despite long investigation by a Trump-appointed special prosecutor, Joe Biden has been indicted for nothing, and Hunter Biden has been indicted only for things totally unrelated to alleged influence peddling. Your facts in your long post that quoted Archer testimony transcripts do not even allege any wrongdoing by President Biden. A theory from a witness that some third party might feel intimidated is a million miles even from evidence that they were, much less that the President intended such result and took illegal action to produce it.

3. You mischaracterize the posts by insinuating that they wrongly disregard good arguments from you. Except the good arguments were never made (see point 2).

4. You have changed the topic, from allegations of wrongdoing by President Biden, to allegations of bad posting practices by others here.

[RickeyM]

You are the expert in all the above. You do it constantly. You did it when you posted the above.

Here, by item:

1. Insulted the posters and others by calling them hilarious.

2. You ignore that, despite long investigation by a Trump-appointed special prosecutor, Joe Biden has been indicted for nothing, and Hunter Biden has been indicted only for things totally unrelated to alleged influence peddling. Your facts in your long post that quoted Archer testimony transcripts do not even allege any wrongdoing by President Biden. A theory from a witness that some third party might feel intimidated is a million miles even from evidence that they were, much less that the President intended such result and took illegal action to produce it.

3. You mischaracterize the posts by insinuating that they wrongly disregard good arguments from you. Except the good arguments were never made (see point 2).

4. You have changed the topic, from allegations of wrongdoing by President Biden, to allegations of bad posting practices by others here.
As I said, he never fails to disappoint.
EDIT: Or should that be never disappoints to fail?

[Rajoo]

I am shameless and unprincipled. So how about Javanka, who it seems is slithering back intt Trump's orbit again. Can't be family loyalty nor the weather, so what is it? A grifting opportunity would be my guess. And how about this?

Ivanka might be forgiven for her conflicted relationship with Trump. He’s Daddy, after all. But familial attachments do not — and did not — qualify her or Kushner to serve as senior advisers to the president of the United States. When Kushner was denied security clearance by career intelligence officers because of concerns about foreign influence, outside business interests and personal conduct, Trump overrode them.

As for Kushner’s credulity-straining role as impromptu diplomat to the Middle East, we can only wonder what other conversations took place as he persuaded leaders in Israel, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan and Morocco to recognize Israel’s sovereignty and normalize relations among them. The Abraham Accords are widely viewed as a landmark development toward building relationships and mitigating tensions in the Persian Gulf region. But it is also increasingly clear that Kushner was simultaneously securing his own financial future via massive investments in his pop-up private equity firm, Affinity Partners, by many of the very same countries that signed the accords. Quelle coincidence.

Kushner’s biggest financial backer, however, was Saudi Arabia, which declined to sign the accords. This was of no consequence to Kushner, who was already pals with Mohammed bin Salman, commonly known as MBS, before joining the Trump White House. The two “princes,” both then in their 30s and eager to establish themselves on the international stage, reportedly bonded as only the born elite can.

Less than six months after leaving the White House, Kushner secured a $2 billion commitment from the Saudi sovereign wealth fund, which MBS controls, despite opposition from the fund’s board of directors because of Kushner’s lack of experience in private equity. Other countries followed suit, including signatories to the accords — the UAE, Qatar, Sudan and Morocco. Today, Affinity’s investment commitments have reached at least $3 billion, which is not a bad haul for a young adviser to a twice-impeached president who, recently arrested for the third time, faces several fresh indictments.

So if any First Son needs to be investigated, its Kushner and he very well may be a national security risk. And why didn't the Saudis sign the accord? Suspicious minds want to know.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/04/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-corruption-return/

[RickeyM]

See post 3414, item 1.
See post 3375, second paragraph. I said congratulations, it was a compliment (smile).

[whell]

You are the expert in all the above. You do it constantly. You did it when you posted the above.

Here, by item:

1. Insulted the posters and others by calling them hilarious.

2. You ignore that, despite long investigation by a Trump-appointed special prosecutor, Joe Biden has been indicted for nothing, and Hunter Biden has been indicted only for things totally unrelated to alleged influence peddling. Your facts in your long post that quoted Archer testimony transcripts do not even allege any wrongdoing by President Biden. A theory from a witness that some third party might feel intimidated is a million miles even from evidence that they were, much less that the President intended such result and took illegal action to produce it.

3. You mischaracterize the posts by insinuating that they wrongly disregard good arguments from you. Except the good arguments were never made (see point 2).

4. You have changed the topic, from allegations of wrongdoing by President Biden, to allegations of bad posting practices by others here.

Oh bullshit.

1. There is no question that NO ONE has yet to respond to the substance of the post above.

2. Investigations into Biden's handling of documents is still ongoing, though I would be surprised if it goes anywhere. There is whistleblower testimony that calls into question whether or not the DOJ is politicized. If true, Biden may have nothing to worry about.

The posts from the testimony were selected to address comments by Finn, where he relied on a WaPo article by Bump. If you'd read my post in context, you'd know this. Instead, you relied on tactic 3 listed above, since that post was not intended to be an effort to "allege wrong-doing by Biden". It was more of a commentary and counterpoint about Bump's factually challenged reporting, which Finn apparently holds in high regard.

3. As noted in #2 above, you're mischaracterizing my post, so I'm not worried about your critique of the arguments I was making.

4. How is pointing out that no one has responded substantively to my post "changing the subject"? Answer - it isn't It's an observation, but also a challenge to respond in a more engaging manner. A challenge that you apparently have decided to pass on.

[Rajoo]

^^Was DOJ politicized under Trump?
Hint: Look up Bill Barr and the Mueller Report

On Biden's retaining of classified documents, totally different category. He discovered them and voluntarily returned them, just like Pence did. Don't hold your breath though, chance are that since they were left unattended, looking into who else may have had access to them which of course will implicate Biden. And if its anything like the Durham investigation, it will take four years to find nothing.

[RickeyM]

Whell, you have some sort of psychological issue. OCD, perhaps? Get yourself diagnosed, please, for your own good.
HUNTER HUNTER HUNTER Aaargh!

https://media1.giphy.com/media/H8bzCgnzMVgWs/giphy.gif

[Rajoo]

Hunter is broke, a friend had to loan him money to pay his back taxes.
Kushner has $3 Billion in the bank (his VC fund).
So should we investigate, Kushner or Hunter?
Depends, if you are a Repugnant.

[RickeyM]

Oh bullshit.

1. There is no question that NO ONE has yet to respond to the substance of the post above.

4. How is pointing out that no one has responded substantively to my post "changing the subject"? Answer - it isn't It's an observation, but also a challenge to respond in a more engaging manner. A challenge that you apparently have decided to pass on.

https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/arguing-with-idiotsis-like-playing-chess-with-a-pigeon-no-14033992.png

[Chicks]

Oh bullshit.

1. There is no question that NO ONE has yet to respond to the substance of the post above.


...because there is no substance there. Doh!

How much money have you spent on your Dear Leader's con so far?

[finnbow]

Oh bullshit.

1. There is no question that NO ONE has yet to respond to the substance of the post above....

Have you ever considered that outside of the wingnut echo chamber where you get your "news," nobody gives a shit about the indiscretions of Biden's wayward son?

If you have a hard time grasping the simple fact that the entire Hunter Biden brouhaha is nothing but an effort to distract MAGAMorons from Trump's legal troubles, consider for a moment that during this week when Trump was indicted and arraigned for very serious crimes associated with trying to steal an election "Fox News and Fox Business have spent nearly as much time talking about Hunter Biden and his former business partner Devon Archer this week as they have Trump and the word “indictment.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/04/trump-indictment-hunter-biden/

[whell]

Have you ever considered that outside of the wingnut echo chamber where you get your "news," nobody gives a shit about the indiscretions of Biden's wayward son?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/04/trump-indictment-hunter-biden/

I'm sure you and your fellow travelers care to the extent that you need to deflect and distract.

No one cares what President's family does? Then why did you get all charged up about the activites of Jared Kushner?

[whell]

Hunter is broke, a friend had to loan him money to pay his back taxes.

Please post your source regarding Hunter Biden's financial condition.

[finnbow]

I'm sure you and your fellow travelers care to the extent that you need to deflect and distract.

No one cares what President's family does? Then why did you get all charged up about the activites of Jared Kushner?

Because he and his wife served in official positions in the Trump White House. If you recall, he was the point man for the US-Mexico border wall, ending the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, solving the opioid crisis, managing the nation’s medical stockpile amid the coronavirus crisis, overhauling the Republican Party platform, and providing cover for Khashoggi's murderer among other things.

Are you really this stupid? Hunter has exactly zero role in the Biden administration while Jared was the most important person in Trump's White House other than the Orange Shitgibbon himself.

As for us deflecting and distracting from Hunter's criminality, that's utter bullshit. I (and others) have said that we don't give a shit one way or the other about Hunter's investigation and prosecution by the US Attorney in Delaware. What we object to is the GOP concocting a false conspiracy to cover for Dear Leader's rampant criminality.

[RickeyM]

Now Finn how else can he deflect from his Dear Leader's rampant criminality without flinging mud at the Biden's? It's the only programming they give him on Reich-wing media.

[whell]

Because he and his wife served in official positions in the Trump White House. If you recall, he was the point man for the US-Mexico border wall, ending the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, solving the opioid crisis, managing the nation’s medical stockpile amid the coronavirus crisis, overhauling the Republican Party platform, and providing cover for Khashoggi's murderer among other things.

Are you really this stupid? Hunter has exactly zero role in the Biden administration while Jared was the most important person in Trump's White House other than the Orange Shitgibbon himself.

Are you really this stupid? Biden, the elder, has been making money using his political connections for years and years. This is nothing new. The fact that Hunter has never served "politcally" under Joe is irrelevant. The fact that Joe Biden has been doing this kind of crap for years and made the decision to bring his son in on the caper is what is relevant.

Check this out from The Nation (https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/biden-delaware-way-graft/). It lays out how long the Biden family has been at it, often risking taxpayer money to back their ventures. And when those ventures failed, the taxpayer got stuck.

When other Biden-related investments turned sour, Chinese investors were ready to help. In 2009, Joe Biden announced more than $500 million in Energy Department financing and $21.5 million from the state of Delaware for a California start-up, Fisker Automotive (which at the time was backed by future Biden donor John Doerr’s venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins), so it could manufacture electric cars at a factory 3,000 miles from its headquarters—and just five miles from Biden’s Greenville home. Addressing more than 1,000 laid-off GM employees at the plant site, Biden presented the funding as payback for years of autoworkers’ union support.

But the Delaware plant never opened. (It has since been leveled to make room for warehouses.) One blow was the 2012 bankruptcy of Fisker’s battery supplier, which was sold at auction to the Wanxiang Group of Shanghai in a deal that required approval from the Obama-Biden administration. Despite borrowing $300 million from the Energy Department, Fisker itself filed for bankruptcy the next year. Wanxiang bought the firm’s remaining assets.

The Fisker fiasco has always been one of my Biden favorites. Here's more detail on it here: https://investigativeresearchcenter.org/hunter-biden-listed-as-fisker-creditor-raising-questions-about-green-energy-boondoggle/. Hunter was attached to this one too.

You geniuses love to call Trump a grifter. To the extent that the allegation is correct, the Bidens makesTrump look like a rank ametuer in the art of grift.

I'm not exonerating Trump by focusing on Biden. Quite the opposite. If he's found guilty then he'll pay the price for it.

Contrast this with your absolute unwillingness to see your political heros as anything but "the good guys" is nuts. And you're not alone. I still laugh everytime I think of Chicks making the point the "Joe Biden is an honest guy." Either you folks look at Washington DC through rose colored glasses, or your definition of "an honest guy" is defined by the least common denominator among us.

[finnbow]

Are you really this stupid? Biden, the elder, has been making money using his political connections for years and years. This is nothing new. The fact that Hunter has never served "politcally" under Joe is irrelevant. The fact that Joe Biden has been doing this kind of crap for years and made the decision to bring his son in on the caper is what is relevant.

For which there is no evidence. When and if Biden is indicted for specific crimes, I'll read the indictment and opine appropriately. Until then, I think it's wise to ignore James Comer and Gym Jordan, both of whom have no interest whatsoever in the actual truth. They're only interested in obfuscation and confusion. To wit, here is Gym Jordan's recent statement on all of Trump's indictments.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230806/d195ae77a6a0de65533ca7f8edfca13f.jpg

Check this out from The Nation (https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/biden-delaware-way-graft/). It lays out how long the Biden family has been at it, often risking taxpayer money to back their ventures. And when those ventures failed, the taxpayer got stuck.

A MAGAMoron citing The Nation??? The Nation is way too far left for most Democrats and their editor Katrina vanden Heuvel (and her deceased husband) were Putin-huggers of the first order.

[Rajoo]

Please post your source regarding Hunter Biden's financial condition.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/10/us/politics/hunter-biden-kevin-morris-lawyer.html

Now tell me, why did Kushner get $3 Billion stuffed into his pockets by the Saudis and their friends, and isn't that a bribe considering he used his position in the WH to extort these funds? How much of that did Trump get?

[Rajoo]

The New York Times Proves President Trump Is a Crook

The New York Times has published a massive investigation of President Trump’s finances, revolving around two important revelations. First, Trump was given far more financial support by his father than previously known — at least $413 million in today’s dollars, not the measly $1 million he claims to have received. Second, the mechanisms by which he received these transfers often crossed the line from aggressive or creative maneuvering into illegality. That the Times presents these conclusions so baldly — accusing him of “outright fraud” in the first sentence — in the face of Trump’s famous litigiousness, is a testament to the power and clarity of its findings.

That is to say, Trump was in the money-inheriting business. And that business was essentially, and not just incidentally, illegal. The Times found 295 income streams created by Fred Trump for his son, many of them illegal on their face. The English language has terms for people who make large sources of money from illegal activity: criminals.

http://www.politicalchat.org/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=11234

[Rajoo]

Netanyahu and Trump: Two Criminal Defendants, Two Coups Against Democracy

The political circumstances of Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump may be different, but they have uncanny similarities: Cult followings, conspiracy theories about an 'elite' out to get them - and an overwhelming urge to burn down the country if they can’t control it

Both are righteous, bigger-than-their-countries, innocent victims of a vile, conniving deep state elite out to get them in a vicious witch hunt. Both have been indicted on multiple counts, yet both say they embody the will of the “real people.” They both tragically suffer for our sins and, in fact, qualify for political asylum status in Norway or Denmark.

They have managed to persuade enough people that a lawful, liberal democracy with effective checks and balances is deficient and bad. It’s an elite thing, from the “real” people.

Short and worth a read, comparisons are on the mark.

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2023-08-03/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-and-trump-two-criminal-defendants-two-coups-against-democracy/00000189-bb8c-ddac-a3cd-bffde7db0000

[bobabode]

I wonder if Mike Whell ever tires of having his ass handed to him here at PoliticalChat.org?

[Rajoo]

I wonder if Mike Whell ever tires of having his ass handed to him here at PoliticalChat.org?

When Nixon said "I am not a crook", no one believed him.

Joe Biden does not have to say I am not a crook. He was a US Senator from 1973-2009, President Obama's VP from 2009-2017 and now President since 2021. Fifty years in public service and never a hint of corruption till the Freedumb Caucus grabbed McCarthy by his balls? This is an investigation looking for a crime and they cannot even cook one up like the BIG LIE.

And if Trump ever says "I am not a crook", the entire human race will laugh.

[Chicks]

When Nixon said "I am not a crook", no one believed him.


Oh, little Stephie Miller believed him. One of Whell's favorite "heroes", no doubt.

‘Of Course!’ Former Trump Advisor Stephen Miller Says Watergate Was ‘Obviously’ a ‘Deep State Coup Against Richard Nixon’
https://www.mediaite.com/podcasts/of-course-former-trump-advisor-stephen-miller-says-watergate-was-obviously-a-deep-state-coup-against-richard-nixon/

[RickeyM]

I wonder if Mike Whell ever tires of having his ass handed to him here at PoliticalChat.org?
He just can't accept that not everyone is as criminally corrupt as tRump & co. while ignoring how criminally corrupt tRump & co. are. A magnificent display of mental gymnastics if I ever saw one.

[finnbow]

I wonder if Mike Whell ever tires of having his ass handed to him here at PoliticalChat.org?

I suspect he believes that Jack Smith is violating Trump‘s First Amendment right to ask people to conspire with him to commit crimes.

[Rajoo]

I am shameless and unprincipled. So how about Javanka, who it seems is slithering back intt Trump's orbit again. Can't be family loyalty nor the weather, so what is it? A grifting opportunity would be my guess. And how about this?



So if any First Son needs to be investigated, its Kushner and he very well may be a national security risk. And why didn't the Saudis sign the accord? Suspicious minds want to know.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/04/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-corruption-return/

I'm sure you and your fellow travelers care to the extent that you need to deflect and distract.

No one cares what President's family does? Then why did you get all charged up about the activites of Jared Kushner?

I am the one who has brought Kushner of Javanka.con into this conversation since the thread was getting monotonous and boring. Hunter has his share of problems and demons, perhaps more than the average person because of his long term substance addiction, not that this gives him a pass if convicted of any criminal activities.

But if you want to include finn in this, be my guest. He is far better at factoiding than me and you will be the worse for it.

[whell]

For which there is no evidence.
If you pretend hard enough that there's no evidence then I guess you can make that claim.


A MAGAMoron citing The Nation??? The Nation is way too far left for most Democrats and their editor Katrina vanden Heuvel (and her deceased husband) were Putin-huggers of the first order.

Yeah, I guess that's a bit shocking for a Demwit. It also, once again, puts the lie to your constant claim that I only get news from Fox. But it also presents additional evidence...oh, but you're ignoring that.

By the way, Putin-hugger Katrina vanden Heuvel's Putin-hugging words grace your favorite newpaper - WaPo - from time to time.

[whell]

I am the one who has brought Kushner of Javanka.con into this conversation since the thread was getting monotonous and boring. Hunter has his share of problems and demons, perhaps more than the average person because of his long term substance addiction, not that this gives him a pass if convicted of any criminal activities.

But if you want to include finn in this, be my guest. He is far better at factoiding than me and you will be the worse for it.

Missed your earlier post, but feel free to take credit.

[Rajoo]

Missed your earlier post, but feel free to take credit.

That's Ok, hard to read when taking out your frustrations the QWERTY board.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/H8bzCgnzMVgWs/giphy.gif TY, Ricky.

[finnbow]

If you pretend hard enough that there's no evidence then I guess you can make that claim.

There is indeed no evidence. There are plenty of lies and innuendo though (the GOP's currency). Get back to me when Joe Biden is indicted.

Yeah, I guess that's a bit shocking for a Demwit. It also, once again, puts the lie to your constant claim that I only get news from Fox. But it also presents additional evidence...oh, but you're ignoring that.

By the way, Putin-hugger Katrina vanden Heuvel's Putin-hugging words grace your favorite newpaper - WaPo - from time to time.

As do those of George Will, Marc Thiessen, Henry Olsen and Hugh Hewitt. It just goes to show that the editorial page of the WashPost is not beholden to any political ideology (unlike that of the WSJ, the NYPost or The Nation). She is a guest columnist who has not had a piece in the Post for 8 months, whereas these 4 conservatives (who are paid columnists) appear pretty much every week.

BTW, The Nation is not a source of news. It is a source of far left political commentary. As such, it was a strong supporter of Bernie's 2020 candidacy and an outspoken critic of Biden's. (https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/endorsement-2020-bernie-sanders/)And I don't believe for a minute that you're a regular reader of that lefty rag.

[RickeyM]

There is indeed no evidence...
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cDihnh1FxJY/WabNLh0DswI/AAAAAAAAIPo/5GLyW0x2GUkhNg0e2oVfStQSl4fOFvI6gCLcBGAs/s1600/Listen%2B3.jpg

THERE IS TOO! - THERE IS TOO! JIM and GYM SAY SO!

[whell]

BTW, The Nation is not a source of news. It is a source of far left political commentary.

So is Media Matters, but that doesn't stop you from quoting from there.

[Rajoo]

The fact that Joe Biden has been doing this kind of crap for years and made the decision to bring his son in on the caper is what is relevant.

If there are facts, the should have been indictments, trials or at the very least an expose like the NYT expose of Trump that I linked, a crook.

Trump OTOH,

Trump charity, slush fund, shut down. For that matter that family of crooks cannot even be part of any charity.

Financial fraud with his company, NY state, 34 indictments
Steal classified documents, 37 indictments.
Insurrection, 4 indictments.
Election fraud, GA indictments forthcoming.

Let me ask you this, disregarding these indictments for a moment, why does your party wholeheartedly support him for the 2024 nomination since he was convicted of sexual assault (rape in my mind)? A crook, an adulterer and a philanderer who writes with a Sharpie with a mental age of 2, how is he even fit for office?

And you guys are dumb enough to harp on Biden being senile while he has been showing up the GOP as inept and corrupt every day since he became president.

[finnbow]

So is Media Matters, but that doesn't stop you from quoting from there.

It is not an outlet for political commentary, per se. Its entire reason for being is to expose and rebut the Fox News lies you believe and often dutifully regurgitate here. It keeps them (and me) quite busy.

Moreover, you cited The Nation (the furthest left of all long-standing political journals) as "evidence." Coming from you, that was simply too rich to let pass.

[Rajoo]

Mr Whell, may I suggest this graphic for your avatar here. (GRIN)

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cDihnh1FxJY/WabNLh0DswI/AAAAAAAAIPo/5GLyW0x2GUkhNg0e2oVfStQSl4fOFvI6gCLcBGAs/s1600/Listen%2B3.jpg

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by whell View Post
The fact that Joe Biden has been doing this kind of crap for years and made the decision to bring his son in on the caper is what is relevant.
What caper would that be sir? That whell considers Biden a bigger grifter than the

4191

solidifies him as T.F.L. above all others.

[Rajoo]

The GOP mantra:

Biden is an illegitimate president, only MAGAts bought that.
Biden and Dems are Radical Soshialists, that did not work either and wonder why.
Then the Biden economy, the next pandemic. This really made the Repugnants look bad. Some of them even took credit for the turnaround.
Hunter Biden.....well the JD offered a plea bargain deal and that ended this circus.
Joe Biden, criminal, corrupt politician. But nothing there.

So what is the Repugnant Goppers' next move? Begin attacking Kamala and why not? She is a black woman and 1st in line for the presidency. Not kidding, Trump groupie Nikki Haley brought this up specifically in a campaign speech, "do not vote for Kamala Harris" and we know what she is implying. Not a verbatim quote, but from memory.

[whell]

Trump OTOH,



Changing the topic as usual...

[whell]

It is not an outlet for political commentary, per se. Its entire reason for being is to expose and rebut the Fox News lies...

Bull shit. It's a 501(c)3 lobbying and disinformation outlet. Right on the home page today of MM is the same story that P Bump was lying about in WaPo, and you cited:

https://www.mediamatters.org/daily-caller/testimony-hunter-biden-associate-devon-archer-directly-contradicts-right-wing-hype

It's probably where Bump got his talking points from, and demonstrates that MM is a lie factory for the left. Probably why you like them so much.

[Rajoo]

Changing the topic as usual...

I am comparing and contrasting between the current POTUS and the former POS. Quite legitimate if you ask around.

[bobabode]

It is not an outlet for political commentary, per se. Its entire reason for being is to expose and rebut the Fox News lies you believe and often dutifully regurgitate here. It keeps them (and me) quite busy.

Moreover, you cited The Nation (the furthest left of all long-standing political journals) as "evidence." Coming from you, that was simply too rich to let pass.

It's an admission on Mike's part that he's incapable of discerning between horseshit and facts. He trots out the Nation so he can play some adolescent 'gotcha' game while he regurgitates Newsmax and other far right sources.

Maybe his bullshit detector needs recapping and calibrating?

[finnbow]

Bull shit. It's a 501(c)3 lobbying and disinformation outlet. Right on the home page today of MM is the same story that P Bump was lying about in WaPo, and you cited:

https://www.mediamatters.org/daily-caller/testimony-hunter-biden-associate-devon-archer-directly-contradicts-right-wing-hype

It's probably where Bump got his talking points from, and demonstrates that MM is a lie factory for the left. Probably why you like them so much.

Their mission is to serve as a "research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media."

Correcting wingnut media's lies is not disinformation, Kellyanne, even if you credulously buy into all their bullshit. Your link provides an excellent example of this, providing chapter and verse of the lies by wingnut media and the testimony that refutes them.

In any event, I still don't give a shit about Biden's wayward son. My interest in his erstwhile debauched lifestyle interests me about as much as the latest happenings in the Kardashian family.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F2tSo2TXAAsVImH?format=jpg&name=small

[finnbow]

George Conway (ex-husband of Ms. Alternative Facts (and apparent inspiration for Whell's non-stop spewing of alternative facts)):

They’ve addicted themselves to these lies. They live off of these lies, the conservative media profits off of these lies, the political consultants profit off of these lies. The congressmen basically make a living selling these lies to the American people for contributions and funding—they’re lining their pockets or providing for their necessities of life through their PACs and whatever. There’s no way out, because they basically locked in a certain number of people to these lies. Ultimately, you’re going to end up with a core of the party that kind of eats itself up, and the rest of the party is just going to fall off and become independent to the extent it hasn’t already.


https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/republican-party-gop-is-beyond-repair

[whell]

Their mission is to serve as a "research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media."

Correcting wingnut media's lies is not disinformation, Kellyanne, even if you credulously buy into all their bullshit. Your link provides an excellent example of this, providing chapter and verse of the lies by wingnut media and the testimony that refutes them.

Again, is originating and repeating their own lies part of Media Matters' process for "correcting disinformation"? I linked to an article that is clearly based on misinformation right on Media Matters' website. But I see you ignored that and stuck to your BS talking points.

In any event, I still don't give a shit about Biden's wayward son. My interest in his erstwhile debauched lifestyle interests me about as much as the latest happenings in the Kardashian family.

Well, my disinterested friend, there's a lot of lying going on. Lying is part and parcel of politics, so you have to learn to parse through the BS that is dished out from folks on both sides of the aisle.

So, here's some parsing. During the 2020 debates:

Kristen Welker: “Vice President Biden, there have been questions about the work your son has done in China and for a Ukrainian energy company when you were vice president; in retrospect, was anything about those relationships inappropriate or unethical?”

Joe Biden: “Nothing was unethical. … My son has not made money in terms of this thing about, what are you talking about, China. I have not had … the only guy who made money from China is this guy [Donald Trump]. He’s the only one. Nobody else has made money from China.”

Here's WaPo's four Pinocchio take (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/01/biden-said-his-son-earned-no-money-china-his-son-says-otherwise/)on that, albeit almost 3 years later:

But the fact remains that Biden, during the debate, denied his son had made money in China. In court last week, his son said he earned hundreds of thousands of dollars from Chinese business deals.

The "in court last week" reference was to the "plea deal" that blew up. The plea agreement document was filed with the court and therefore became available for public scrutiny. In that document, the US Gov't lays out Hunter's involvement with Chinese "investors" and "conglomerates.

So, Joe lied. You can stop your inquiry there and claim that "Joe wasn't lying. He simply didn't know because he claims that he was never involved with his son's business. OK, stipulated.

But then again, Joe's a liar. How do we know this? Well, for one thing, he's a politician, so it kind of comes with the territory. But there's a lot of ink being spilled and internet bandwidth consumed documenting Joe's lying. Here are just a few examples:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?category=&ruling=false&speaker=joe-biden

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/biden-fact-checker-100-days/

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/10/us/politics/biden-exaggeration-falsehood.html

https://www.axios.com/2019/08/29/joe-biden-war-story-false-2020-president

So, if he's a documented and very capable liar, then its reasonable to assume that there's a possibility he's lying about not being involved in his son's business affairs. Is there any evidence to support this?

Sure there is. We heard that Hunter, in the midst of meeting with potential clients, would call his dad and put him on speakerphone. According to D Archer, they'd discuss nothing specifically related to any business deals. But Hunter would tell his data who he was with. Now, I've been a part of a number of meetings with prospective clients. Never once did it ever occur to me to call my dad. But, if the "brand" for your business is Joe Biden, as Archer confirmed, then calling dad to close the deal is the perfect way to demonstrate your business's capabilities.

Then, of course, there are the photographs of Joe and Hunter smiling in photos with Hunter's business partners.

And there was Archer's testimony, where he carefully phrased that he couldn't rule out Joe's involvement.

17 Q So is it fair to say that Hunter Biden was selling the illusion of access to his
18 father?
19 A Yes.
20 Q So when you talk about selling the brand --
21 A Uh-huh.
22 Q -- it's not about selling access to his father. It's about selling the illusion of
23 access to his father. Is that fair?
A Is that fair? I mean, yeah, that is -- I think that's -- that's almost fair.
25 Q Almost fair. Why almost fair?
Because there -- there is -- 1 there are touch points and contact points that I
2 can't deny that happened, but nothing of material was discussed. But I can't go on
3 record saying that there was -- there was communications.
4 Mr. Goldman. You mean --
5 Mr. Archer. Yeah, yeah.
6 Mr. Goldman. -- hello and --
7 Mr. Archer. Yeah, there were communications.

He was careful in his testimony that he never was part of any business communications between Hunter and Joe. But his testimony also states that he was aware that they occurred.

So, Joe lied about money from China. Over time, evidence accumulated to the point were even WaPo had to confirm Biden was lying. Could be be lying about his involvement in those business deals, some of which were with businesses with direct ties to the Chinese Communist Party? The evidence above, and there's much more, shows that: 1) your constant claim of "there's no evidence" is false, and 2) it can't be ruled out that Joe Biden was involved in Hunter's influence-pedaling scheme.

[whell]

Yeah, I know Finn. Another long and fact-laden post. You probably will complain about it and not read it, but it's fun documenting how your comments lack merit.

[Rajoo]

The new round of Hunter Biden headlines is wrenching open a division within the GOP about how to prosecute the case against Biden ahead of 2024. Former President Donald Trump lamented the leveling of a “traffic ticket instead of a death sentence” against Hunter Biden, and he and others are calling for the president’s impeachment. But a vocal segment of the party is signaling trepidation, worried about focusing too heavily on a political scandal and not pocketbook issues.

Here it is, the constant badgering of Hunter is something TFG wants, so the Repugnants are happy to oblige.


“If anybody deserves to be impeached, I believe it’s Biden for what he has done. At the same time, we’ve got to look to 2024,” said Rep. Roger Williams (R-Texas). “We’ve got to get this White House back. We’ve got to get the Senate back.”


Can't get at the son, impeach the father but for what is still in the works. Chances of an impeachment proceeding are zero and wonder why? Eighteen Repugnant members of Congress in districts Biden won, most of them in CA and NY are being targeted by the Democrats in the 2020 elections. Good luck guys.


He added, “If I was running for president I would focus on what I can do for 2024 and get this economy going again.”

The economy is fine, doing great actually and now hand this to the GOP?
Are you guys nuts??
Let me take a guess, another round of tax cuts for the wealthy???

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/27/republican-hunter-biden-focus-00108406

[finnbow]

Yeah, I know Finn. Another long and fact-laden post. You probably will complain about it and not read it, but it's fun documenting how your comments lack merit.

I'm simply not interested enough in Hunter's travails to read your tome, nor do I plan to tune in to "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" tonight on Hulu. I'll wait until Joe Biden is implicated/indicted in formal court documents.

Until then, there's simply nothing you can do or say to peak my interest in l'affaire Hunter. I'm content to wait on the courts in Delaware to sort out his legal problems, though it is admittedly amusing to watch James Comer keep stepping on rakes.

https://clipart.coolclips.com/480/vectors/tf05087/CoolClips_cart1970.png

[whell]

I'm simply not interested enough in Hunter's travails to read your tome, nor do I plan to tune in to "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" tonight on Hulu.

In other words, with apologies to RickyM:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cDihnh1FxJY/WabNLh0DswI/AAAAAAAAIPo/5GLyW0x2GUkhNg0e2oVfStQSl4fOFvI6gCLcBGAs/s1600/Listen%2B3.jpg

For context, here's a comment (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/analysis-hunter-bidens-hard-drive-shows-firm-took-11-million-2013-2018-rcna29462) from one of the left's favorite former FBI guys about the person you're just not interested in:

Frank Figliuzzi, the FBI’s former assistant director for counterintelligence, said there is a national security risk when foreign powers like China see an opportunity to get close to someone like Biden. “It’s all about access and influence, and if you can compromise someone with both access and influence, that’s even better,” said Figliuzzi, now an NBC News contributor. “Better still if that target has already compromised himself.”

[RickeyM]

So, if he's a documented and very capable liar, then its reasonable to assume that there's a possibility he's lying about not being involved in his son's business affairs. Is there any evidence to support this?

So, Joe lied about money from China. Over time, evidence accumulated to the point were even WaPo had to confirm Biden was lying. Could be be lying about his involvement in those business deals, some of which were with businesses with direct ties to the Chinese Communist Party? The evidence above, and there's much more, shows that: 1) your constant claim of "there's no evidence" is false, and 2) it can't be ruled out that Joe Biden was involved in Hunter's influence-pedaling scheme.

Coulda' shoulda' woulda', meanwhile the documented and very capable liar, with the aid of his Republican cohorts...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F2tSo2TXAAsVImH?format=jpg&name=small

[finnbow]

Frank Figliuzzi, the FBI’s former assistant director for counterintelligence, said there is a national security risk when foreign powers like China see an opportunity to get close to someone like Biden. “It’s all about access and influence, and if you can compromise someone with both access and influence, that’s even better,” said Figliuzzi, now an NBC News contributor. “Better still if that target has already compromised himself.”

Still not interested. If this truly concerns you, however, you must have been absolutely catatonic when you learned about Trump and his 2016 campaign's myriad contacts with Russians and their intelligence services. Oh, wait ...

As for Chinese intelligence, I seem to recall that the Comer Star Witness was himself a Chinese spy while Trump, the current GOP front runner, continues to heap praise and adulation upon Xi.

[RickeyM]

Frank Figliuzzi, the FBI’s former assistant director for counterintelligence, said there is a national security risk when foreign powers like China see an opportunity to get close to someone like Biden. “It’s all about access and influence, and if you can compromise someone with both access and influence, that’s even better,” said Figliuzzi, now an NBC News contributor. “Better still if that target has already compromised himself.”
Gee, that sounds exactly like what Russia did with tRump and the Saudi's did with the Boy Prince.

[RickeyM]

https://orig00.deviantart.net/d239/f/2013/122/6/7/ass_handed_to_meme_by_sweetom888-d63uqou.png

[Rajoo]

In other words, with apologies to RickyM:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cDihnh1FxJY/WabNLh0DswI/AAAAAAAAIPo/5GLyW0x2GUkhNg0e2oVfStQSl4fOFvI6gCLcBGAs/s1600/Listen%2B3.jpg

For context, here's a comment (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/analysis-hunter-bidens-hard-drive-shows-firm-took-11-million-2013-2018-rcna29462) from one of the left's favorite former FBI guys about the person you're just not interested in:

Frank Figliuzzi, the FBI’s former assistant director for counterintelligence, said there is a national security risk when foreign powers like China see an opportunity to get close to someone like Biden. “It’s all about access and influence, and if you can compromise someone with both access and influence, that’s even better,” said Figliuzzi, now an NBC News contributor. “Better still if that target has already compromised himself.”

If this is an example of your marketing experience, the product will be doomed before its launch.

[whell]

Gee, that sounds exactly like what Russia did with tRump and the Saudi's did with the Boy Prince.

1) Trump's allegations about the 2016 election, not influence pedaling. These allegations were thoroughly investigated for years and no evidence was found of Russian collusion.

2) Interesting. Maybe you can get Finn to see whatever contrasts there may be between Kushner and Biden. Right now, he's just not interested.

[whell]

Still not interested. If this truly concerns you, however, you must have been absolutely catatonic when you learned about Trump and his 2016 campaign's myriad contacts with Russians and their intelligence services. Oh, wait ...

As for Chinese intelligence, I seem to recall that the Comer Star Witness was himself a Chinese spy while Trump, the current GOP front runner, continues to heap praise and adulation upon Xi.

I thought you disdained "whataboutism".

"Heaping praise" is quite a bit different from taking money from guys like these, as Hunter and possibly Joe Biden did:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/patrick-ho-former-head-organization-backed-chinese-energy-conglomerate-convicted

[RickeyM]

1) Trump's allegations about the 2016 election, not influence pedaling. These allegations were thoroughly investigated for years and no evidence was found of Russian collusion.

2) Interesting. Maybe you can get Finn to see whatever contrasts there may be between Kushner and Biden. Right now, he's just not interested.
Any president that believes V. Putin over our own intelligence agencies is a security threat. Any president that grants someone a security clearance over the recommendations of intelligence experts is a security threat as much as the person issued that security clearance. Young Biden was never issued a top secret security clearance nor appointed to a position with any president's administration nor involved in any dealings with such.

"Heaping praise" is quite a bit different from taking money from guys like these, as tRump & family definitely did.

Whell you don't need to keep proving how stupid you are. We already believe you.

https://media.tenor.com/images/083bd633a579ec21257818ac412491b6/tenor.gif

[Rajoo]

Since the title of this thread begins with the word Fake, how about talking about Trump's Fake Elector scheme.

This in seven states participating on this scam and wonder how Lauro is planning spin this this off. Two of the states PA and LA had disclaimers but the other five went all in. MI is the only state looking to take their Fake Electors to the wood shed, so what about the other states? Is this state election violation and the Feds have no authority to pursue. Here is a picture of the two leaders of the Fake Elector scam.

Giuliani got disbarred in NY I believe and Eastman is soon to follow suit in CA. Wonder if Gui is still smiling?

Advice to Lauro, claim the fake electors were Saving America. (LOL)


https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https%3A%2F%2Farc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost%252Es3%252Eamazonaws%252Ecom%2Fpublic%2FP FLAK5YZPRE44ZB65CV6JRNLV4%252EJPG&w=992&h=662

[Chicks]

"Heaping praise" is quite a bit different from taking money from guys like these, as Hunter and possibly Joe Biden did:


Anyone else remember when this moron wasn't going to comment on his Dear Leader's blatantly obvious criminality because he hadn't been charged with a crime?

[RickeyM]

In my view Rajoo the violations may have occurred in the states but they were a part of defrauding a federal election. Hang the bastards, after convictions of course. Punishments should also serve as deterrents.

[RickeyM]

Anyone else remember when this moron wasn't going to comment on his Dear Leader's blatantly obvious criminality because he hadn't been charged with a crime?
https://media.giphy.com/media/RLV1VDzcmLqTWpO9GI/giphy.gif

[Rajoo]

In my view Rajoo the violations may have occurred in the states but they were a part of defrauding a federal election. Hang the bastards, after convictions of course. Punishments should also serve as deterrents.

I doubt it's Federal since the states have total control over holding elections. Fake electors were only submitted to each individual states, not to Pence at the Capitol in DC. But I feel certain that a group of citizens in each individual state can claim an attempt was made to invalidate their votes by these Fake Electors or scabs as they were called in the NFL.

As many legal challenges that can be thrown at Trump and his co-conspirators, the better off we would be to expose their treason.

[Rajoo]

https://media.giphy.com/media/RLV1VDzcmLqTWpO9GI/giphy.gif

Now that I recall, I too remember.

Hypocrisy is a common trait among Repugnants and especially Trumpers.
Note the post by TFG asking for a change of venue and the judge's recusal (no reason given) whereas total silence on his Florida case where Trump Groupie Cannon is presiding and she already has shown for favoritism to Trump officially in a precursor to this case.

[finnbow]

I thought you disdained "whataboutism".

"Heaping praise" is quite a bit different from taking money from guys like these, as Hunter and possibly Joe Biden did:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/patrick-ho-former-head-organization-backed-chinese-energy-conglomerate-convicted


I was just pointing out the intellectual bankruptcy of your argument (that the Comer/Jordan follies have anything at all to do with national security (as opposed to their obvious intent to distract from the troubles of Trump)).

There remains no evidence that Joe Biden did anything illegal and until I see court documents detailing his involvement in an illegal conspiracy (something that Jack Smith has showed in spades), I am not interested whatsoever in your ongoing harangue about Hunter. As Judge Luttig so eloquently stated, it is just plain silly.

[Oerets]

How can anyone in reality argue facts with those who refuse to consider them at all?
They who choose so willingly to suspend rational reality in favor of feeling good in ignorance.

There is no way anything will get thru to them. So far down the brain washed. Polluted with innuendo conspiracies misdirection half truths and most of all projection used effectively by their masters....


They will still be around years after this current master is long gone. We are still fighting the Civil War it now seems for God sake!

[whell]

Any president that believes V. Putin over our own intelligence agencies is a security threat. Any president that grants someone a security clearance over the recommendations of intelligence experts is a security threat as much as the person issued that security clearance. Young Biden was never issued a top secret security clearance nor appointed to a position with any president's administration nor involved in any dealings with such.

You're right that Hunter was never given a security clearance. God forbid. But there's little doubt he was acting as a foreign agent as defined by the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA). Devin Archer testified to this, and email records support it. Example here (https://www.scribd.com/document/480001185/Email-from-Vadim-Pozharskyi-to-Devon-Archer-and-Hunter-Biden#). Pretty sure that Hunter was not registered, and that matter is under DOJ investigation. Joe Biden would not have been registered either, and if he was involved as it appears he may have been, that opens up some very troubling scenarios.


Whell you don't need to keep proving how stupid you are. We already believe you.

Post 3414, item 1.

[finnbow]

You're right that Hunter was never given a security clearance. God forbid. But there's little doubt he was acting as a foreign agent as defined by the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA). Devin Archer testified to this, and email records support it. Example here (https://www.scribd.com/document/480001185/Email-from-Vadim-Pozharskyi-to-Devon-Archer-and-Hunter-Biden#). Pretty sure that Hunter was not registered, and that matter is under DOJ investigation. Joe Biden would not have been registered either, and if he was involved as it appears he may have been, that opens up some very troubling scenarios.




Post 3414, item 1.


So, are you alleging that Joe Biden was a foreign agent while he was VP (your linked email was from 2014)? I think you have completely lost your grasp on reality. The concocted Burisma story referenced therein (of Joe Biden's intervention to halt a Burisma investigation) has been completely and thoroughly debunked and the guy (Guiliani) who concocted it is facing imminent indictment in both DC and GA. You really should give it a rest and let the Trump-appointed US Attorney in Delaware complete his work before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

Maybe you should go back to your role as a loyal Trump defender. He's now facing 78 felony charges and 641 years in prison (and counting). He needs credulous people like you to parrot his whiny whataboutisms and claims of persecution. Get to it, Sparky.

[Rajoo]

Let's talk about real cases shall we? As Chicks has pointed out, allegations do not count according to you, so why do you keep harping on it? Here are some facts and indictments.

For the first 234 years of the nation’s history, no American president or former president had ever been indicted. That changed this year. Former President Donald Trump has been charged in three criminal cases and may soon be charged in a fourth. In New York, he faces 34 felony counts in connection with hush money payments to a porn star. In Florida, he faces 40 felony counts for hoarding classified documents and impeding efforts to retrieve them. In Washington, D.C., he faces four felony counts for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. And in Georgia, a local prosecutor is investigating 2020 election interference in that state.

Now that is a record Trump and his minions should be proud of and there is lot to talk about here. Hunter, lock him up for all we care. And about Joe, get a life. Or investigate Santos. He seems to be a more accomplished though less fortunate a crook than Trump.

[finnbow]

Let's talk about real cases shall we? As Chicks has pointed out, allegations do not count according to you, so why do you keep harping on it? Here are some facts and indictments.



Now that is a record Trump and his minions should be proud of and there is lot to talk about here. Hunter, lock him up for all we care. And about Joe, get a life. Or investigate Santos. He seems to be a more accomplished though less fortunate a crook than Trump.

Indeed. Santos has taken in hundreds of thousands of dollars from Chinese followers of Steve Bannon's partner-in-crime, Miles Guo (recently indicted in a $1 billion fraud case (https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/ho-wan-kwok-aka-miles-guo-arrested-orchestrating-over-1-billion-dollar-fraud-conspiracy)). Whassup with that, Whell? He is a sitting member of Congress.

[RickeyM]

Whell you don't need to keep proving how stupid you are. We already believe you.

Post 3414, item 1.

When it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... What can I say? You earned it TFL.

https://i.imgflip.com/1cblmq.jpg

[RickeyM]

Indeed. Santos has taken in hundreds of thousands of dollars from Chinese followers of Steve Bannon's partner-in-crime, Miles Guo (recently indicted in a $1 billion fraud case (https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/ho-wan-kwok-aka-miles-guo-arrested-orchestrating-over-1-billion-dollar-fraud-conspiracy)). Whassup with that, Whell? He is a sitting member of Congress.

He'll just say you're deflecting from the Biden criminality which is ironic because that is a deflection from tRump's criminality.

[RickeyM]

So, are you alleging that Joe Biden was a foreign agent while he was VP (your linked email was from 2014)? I think you have completely lost your grasp on reality. The concocted Burisma story referenced therein (of Joe Biden's intervention to halt a Burisma investigation) has been completely and thoroughly debunked and the guy (Guiliani) who concocted it is facing imminent indictment in both DC and GA. You really should give it a rest and let the Trump-appointed US Attorney in Delaware complete his work before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

Maybe you should go back to your role as a loyal Trump defender. He's now facing 78 felony charges and 641 years in prison (and counting). He needs credulous people like you to parrot his whiny whataboutisms and claims of persecution. Get to it, Sparky.

whell
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/09/b2/fa/09b2fa531824b37f92a56d994337a793.jpg



(this is fun)

[whell]

So, are you alleging that Joe Biden was a foreign agent while he was VP (your linked email was from 2014)? I think you have completely lost your grasp on reality. The concocted Burisma story referenced therein (of Joe Biden's intervention to halt a Burisma investigation) has been completely and thoroughly debunked and the guy (Guiliani) who concocted it is facing imminent indictment in both DC and GA. You really should give it a rest and let the Trump-appointed US Attorney in Delaware complete his work before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

Maybe you should go back to your role as a loyal Trump defender. He's now facing 78 felony charges and 641 years in prison (and counting). He needs credulous people like you to parrot his whiny whataboutisms and claims of persecution. Get to it, Sparky.

Looks like I struck a nerve. You're all spun up now because I suggested it was possible that Joe Biden might have lied? That's rich!

[whell]

Indeed. Santos has taken in hundreds of thousands of dollars from Chinese followers of Steve Bannon's partner-in-crime, Miles Guo (recently indicted in a $1 billion fraud case (https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/ho-wan-kwok-aka-miles-guo-arrested-orchestrating-over-1-billion-dollar-fraud-conspiracy)). Whassup with that, Whell? He is a sitting member of Congress.

Beyond the fact that this is a whataboutism of the highest order, I agree. Santos needs to be investigated. Not only is there a DOJ probe, there's a House Ethics committee investigation. Lest you allege the the House investigation is a facade, they've actually expanded it and issued subpoenas. So, let the chips fall where they may.

[bobabode]

Poor Whell has lost it.

[finnbow]

Looks like I struck a nerve. You're all spun up now because I suggested it was possible that Joe Biden might have lied? That's rich!

Spun up because you struck a nerve? You flatter yourself. Unlike you, I'm start enough to realize that any story contrived and pushed by Guiliani and then further propagated by Jordan and Comer is almost certainly bullshit from the get-go.

You do realize that Guiliani got disbarred for his lies and it is likely to be indicted soon for conspiracy to defraud the USA and racketeering, eh? And that Jordan helped cover up nearly two hundred sexual assaults and that Comer beat up his college girlfriend? I tend not to treat claims from such cretins as gospel. The fact that you do says more about you than your breathless allegations say about Joe Biden.

[RickeyM]

Poor Whell has lost it.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ju7xz4Dry9Q/T3uBCDtqC6I/AAAAAAAAA2M/oPSeR0PT8mg/s1600/a-mind.jpg

[RickeyM]

Is it my imagination but do whell's deflections coincide with news of Donny's troubles getting a lot of attention? Reich-wing media goes berserk and whell responds does he?

[finnbow]

Is it my imagination but do whell's deflections coincide with news of Donny's troubles getting a lot of attention? Reich-wing media goes berserk and whell responds does he?

He can be relied upon to parrot wingnut media's outrage du jour. He is just one small node in their echo chamber and baffled that we're not as credulous as he is.

[whell]

You do realize that Guiliani got disbarred for his lies and it is likely to be indicted soon for conspiracy to defraud the USA and racketeering, eh? And that Jordan helped cover up nearly two hundred sexual assaults and that Comer beat up his college girlfriend? I tend not to treat claims from such cretins as gospel. The fact that you do says more about you than your breathless allegations say about Joe Biden.

Speaking of lying, you're doing a fine job of it.

1) Guiliani was not disbarred. A disciplinary panel of the DC bar voted to recommend disbarment. It now goes to a larger disciplinary board of the DC bar for further deliberations. Ultimately, if Guiliani and the DC bar cannot agree on a pathway to settle the case, his status to practice law in DC would be decided by the DC Court of Appeals. So, that's lie number 1.

2) There is no proof that Jordan covered up anything. Both he and the OSU head coach state that neither of them were aware of Dr. Strauss's conduct. The MOST you could say is that it is alleged that Jordan was aware, but to state conclusively as you did that "Jordan helped cover up nearly two hundred sexual assaults" is certainly not factual. That's lie number 2.

3) Rumors about Comer's college relationship are old news. The allegations surfaced during Comer's run for KY governor. They remain allegations. Such allegations are coincidentally the weapon of choice, as we saw more recently with Justice Cavenaugh's confirmation hearings. Regardless, you stated conclusively that "Comer beat up his girlfriend". That's lie number 3.

4) You stated: "I tend not to treat claims from such cretins as gospel.". Your track record indicates that you actually do. You take at face value the words of known, serial liars like Joe Biden. I was tempted to suggest that this was lie number 4, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and simply chalk it up to bad judgment.

[whell]

Is it my imagination but do whell's deflections coincide with news of Donny's troubles getting a lot of attention? Reich-wing media goes berserk and whell responds does he?

I suppose it never occurred to consider that both sides might be dirty here? This is Washington DC we're talking about, and the city is certainly not populated with angels.

[finnbow]

I suppose it never occurred to consider that both sides might be dirty here? This is Washington DC we're talking about, and the city is certainly not populated with angels.

And it never seems to have occurred to you that this is precisely the objective of the Comer-Jordan Follies - to give the impression that Joe Biden is as morally and criminally corrupt as Trump. It takes a special dimwit like you to buy into it.

[finnbow]

Speaking of lying, you're doing a fine job of it.

1) Guiliani was not disbarred. A disciplinary panel of the DC bar voted to recommend disbarment. It now goes to a larger disciplinary board of the DC bar for further deliberations. Ultimately, if Guiliani and the DC bar cannot agree on a pathway to settle the case, his status to practice law in DC would be decided by the DC Court of Appeals. So, that's lie number 1.

Guiliani law license was suspended in NY while further disbarment proceedings occurred in NY and DC. In any event, he was identified as a conspirator in Trump's effort to defraud the USA and deprive citizens of 7 states of their civil rights.

2) There is no proof that Jordan covered up anything. Both he and the OSU head coach state that neither of them were aware of Dr. Strauss's conduct. The MOST you could say is that it is alleged that Jordan was aware, but to state conclusively as you did that "Jordan helped cover up nearly two hundred sexual assaults" is certainly not factual. That's lie number 2.


A denial by Jordan means nothing. OTOH, six former OSU athletes said that Jordan did indeed know and thereby enable their abuse. As for "no proof," the Supreme Court recently ruled that there is indeed a worthy case that should move forward.

3) Rumors about Comer's college relationship are old news. The allegations surfaced during Comer's run for KY governor. They remain allegations. Such allegations are coincidentally the weapon of choice, as we saw more recently with Justice Cavenaugh's confirmation hearings. Regardless, you stated conclusively that "Comer beat up his girlfriend". That's lie number 3.

His girlfriend says that he did indeed beat her and also compelled her to get an abortion (despite his "pro-life" stance).

4) You stated: "I tend not to treat claims from such cretins as gospel.". Your track record indicates that you actually do. You take at face value the words of known, serial liars like Joe Biden. I was tempted to suggest that this was lie number 4, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and simply chalk it up to bad judgment.

A MAGAt accusing the current president of being a serial liar while reflexively defending a guy who told an average of 21 documented lies per day for every day of his presidency. I didn't say I believed Joe Biden's personal take on Burisma. I do believe, however, the sworn testimony of Marie Jovanovitch, Kurt Volker, Fiona Hill, George Kent, Gordon Sondland, and Bill Taylor, all of whom said Rudy's Burisma conspiratorial fantasy was bullshit.

Leave it to you to defend a coup conspirator, an enabler of sexual abuse and a "pro-lifer" who assaulted his girlfriend and compelled her to get an abortion. I guess it makes sense because your Dear Leader resides in similar cesspool of amorality, immorality and dishonesty.

[Rajoo]

3) Rumors about Comer's college relationship are old news. The allegations surfaced during Comer's run for KY governor. They remain allegations. Such allegations are coincidentally the weapon of choice, as we saw more recently with Justice Cavenaugh's confirmation hearings. Regardless, you stated conclusively that "Comer beat up his girlfriend". That's lie number 3.


It did not surface, she actually wrote a letter to the newspaper in her name. And the abortion allegation was also stated. Wo where is the "devastating lawsuit" which is a weapon of choice for Repugnants.

As for Cavenaugh, why did the Repugnants refuse to investigate the allegations by the FBI? the accusation was more than credible.

"Did Jamie Comer ever hit me? Yes," wrote Marilyn Thomas, who attended Western Kentucky University with Comer in the early 1990s.

Comer's lawyer, Dick Plymale, of Lexington, said in an interview that Comer "profusely denies" all the allegations in the letter and promised a "devastating lawsuit" against the newspaper if it published the story.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/elections/kentucky/2015/05/04/james-comer-domestic-violence/26901137/

[RickeyM]

Is it my imagination but do whell's deflections coincide with news of Donny's troubles getting a lot of attention? Reich-wing media goes berserk and whell responds does he?

I suppose it never occurred to consider that both sides might be dirty here? This is Washington DC we're talking about, and the city is certainly not populated with angels.

aaannnd he replies about his deflections with a deflection. That's whell, that's...

https://c.tenor.com/Q1-G4aEqnFsAAAAC/classic-youre-classic.gif