Let the tax breaks begin

[whell]

Jeff Bezos and Amazon are looking to build a 2nd HQ facility. Amazon has placed this page (https://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/?node=17044620011) on their web site instructing interested cities to submit RFP's for potential locations.

This is a fine opportunity for Amazon to continue to build its company on the backs of the working poor by getting cities cough up tax breaks in hopes of landing the new HQ. Granted the HQ will spur additional economic growth and development in the city that ultimately lands the new HQ. But Bezos, who is one of the worlds richest, should certainly be able to afford to build his new HQ without shaking down cities for tax breaks, right?

But this is what Amazon has always done. According to Inc Magazine (https://www.inc.com/monique-claiborne/bill-gates-warren-buffet-and-jeff-bezos-all-take-advantage-of-these-little-known.html):

Amazon has not been around nearly as long as Berkshire Hathaway, yet has been successful securing 100 percent of its tax credits and incentives from state and locals governments, according to Good Jobs First. Jeff Bezos has led Amazon to secure over a half of billion dollars in local incentives. State and local assistance are being used to subsidize constructing and expanding fulfillment facilities (allowing Prime-shipments to arrive faster).

In fact, the progressive group Citizens for Tax Justice (http://www.taxjusticeblog.org/archive/2013/08/washington_post_owner_jeff_bez.php#.WbEx5dIrKM9) calls Bezos someone who does not believe is taxes.

Looks like whatever city is successful in bidding for Amazon's new HQ site better be ready to bend over and....well...give 'til it hurts.

[donquixote99]

But Amazon advertises on Brietbart. You're supposed to love them for that. Sounds like they aren't getting what they're paying for there.

[finnbow]

And how is this different from what just about every major company and sports team in the country does? I don't remember you posting about how Gov. Scott Walker gave away $3 billion to attract Foxconn to Wisconsin.

[d-ray657]

Jeff Bezos and Amazon are looking to build a 2nd HQ facility. Amazon has placed this page (https://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/?node=17044620011) on their web site instructing interested cities to submit RFP's for potential locations.

This is a fine opportunity for Amazon to continue to build its company on the backs of the working poor by getting cities cough up tax breaks in hopes of landing the new HQ. Granted the HQ will spur additional economic growth and development in the city that ultimately lands the new HQ. But Bezos, who is one of the worlds richest, should certainly be able to afford to build his new HQ without shaking down cities for tax breaks, right?

But this is what Amazon has always done. According to Inc Magazine (https://www.inc.com/monique-claiborne/bill-gates-warren-buffet-and-jeff-bezos-all-take-advantage-of-these-little-known.html):

Amazon has not been around nearly as long as Berkshire Hathaway, yet has been successful securing 100 percent of its tax credits and incentives from state and locals governments, according to Good Jobs First. Jeff Bezos has led Amazon to secure over a half of billion dollars in local incentives. State and local assistance are being used to subsidize constructing and expanding fulfillment facilities (allowing Prime-shipments to arrive faster).

In fact, the progressive group Citizens for Tax Justice (http://www.taxjusticeblog.org/archive/2013/08/washington_post_owner_jeff_bez.php#.WbEx5dIrKM9) calls Bezos someone who does not believe is taxes.

Looks like whatever city is successful in bidding for Amazon's new HQ site better be ready to bend over and....well...give 'til it hurts.

It sounds to me like the exercise to too much concentrated economic power. This is the kind of thing that the anti-monopoly laws were intended to address. To bad the powers that be will not enforce those laws.

[whell]

It sounds to me like the exercise to too much concentrated economic power. This is the kind of thing that the anti-monopoly laws were intended to address. To bad the powers that be will not enforce those laws.

You never know. Bezos and Trump are not exactly best buddies.

[whell]

And how is this different from what just about every major company and sports team in the country does? I don't remember you posting about how Gov. Scott Walker gave away $3 billion to attract Foxconn to Wisconsin.

Its not, but simply wondering if folks are concerned that Amazon is reaping these types of tax benefits.

[whell]

But Amazon advertises on Brietbart. You're supposed to love them for that. Sounds like they aren't getting what they're paying for there.

Do they really? Wonder if the NAACP will boycott Amazon now for advertising on that racist rag.

The local chapter of the NAACP is going to be boycotting Little Caesars Pizza since the formerly confederate - flag waving Kid Rock (who was given an award by the national NAACP just a couple years ago) who will be performing a concert at the new Little Caesars Arena in Detroit. :rolleyes: Since they've got their boycott game all warmed up, they should have at Amazon too. That'll likely assure that no Detroit tax money will be given away to Amazon to locate a HQ here.

[MrPots]

It sounds to me like the exercise to too much concentrated economic power. This is the kind of thing that the anti-monopoly laws were intended to address. To bad the powers that be will not enforce those laws.

And this is the biggest problem facing the people of United State today. Banks hold so much economic power that they are virtually un-prosecutable. The 2008 recession was no accident, it was a collusion between US regulators and banks. And look at our healthcare system. No meaningful legislation will ever be passed restricting pricing, price gouging and insurance regulation because the industry is so powerful, and the worst economic power, our military industrial complex, it virtually rules our foreign policy ensuring were constantly at war. Today we are fighting 6 wars and our military budget overshadow all other spending. The USA has been at war for 93% of it's history and war profiteers are a mighty powerful force.

The only entity that has no power? The people, the 90% of our population who have no voice. Why? because if we use that voice, industry will cut our throats. We can't even get effectual consumer protections in this country.

[CarlV]

So, he can play politicians just as good as walmart can. It's the American way to fleece the public and their tax doillars, telling them it will make them rich. :)

[Rajoo]

No one can serve two masters. Thanks to unlimited campaign coffers provided by the rich and powerful including corporations, politicians now serve them and people have been left out of the equation permanently.

This is why I believe America has little to no credibility selling democracy to the rest of the world. Unfettered capitalism has triumphed over democracy.

[BlueStreak]

So, what is so new about this? Like companies haven't been trying to leverage communities for lower wage and tax burdens since forever?

I thought Conservatives support and encourage this sort of thing?

[BlueStreak]

No one can serve two masters. Thanks to unlimited campaign coffers provided by the rich and powerful including corporations, politicians now serve them and people have been left out of the equation permanently.

This is why I believe America has little to no credibility selling democracy to the rest of the world. Unfettered capitalism has triumphed over democracy.

Sad, but true.

[finnbow]

So, what is so new about this? Like companies haven't been trying to leverage communities for lower wage and tax burdens since forever?

I thought Conservatives support and encourage this sort of thing?

They do, from Boeing moving to South Carolina to scads of auto manufacturers moving to the South. I think what has Whell's panties in a twist is that Amazon, owned by the same guy who owns the WashPost (and publishes articles unfavorable to his Dear Leader), is the recipient of the state's largess.

One of Whell's first posts after Trump was elected was him crowing about Carrier keeping a handful of jobs in Indiana after they were bribed by the state with $7 million in tax breaks (and which it appears they're going to lose anyway). In other words, his problem is with someone who is critical of Trump getting tax breaks from a state, not the tax breaks themselves.

[BlueStreak]

They do, from Boeing moving to South Carolina to scads of auto manufacturers moving to the South. I think what has Whell's panties in a twist is that Amazon, owned by the same guy who owns the WashPost (and publishes articles unfavorable to his Dear Leader), is the recipient of the state's largess.

One of Whell's first posts after Trump was elected was him crowing about Carrier keeping a handful of jobs in Indiana after they were bribed by the state with $7 million in tax breaks (and which it appears they're going to lose anyway). In other words, his problem is with someone who is critical of Trump getting tax breaks from a state, not the tax breaks themselves.

Yeah, I know. Thing is........ Operating in the South really isn't much of a bonanza for them, either. That's why so many just keep going and leave the country altogether.

[whell]

They do, from Boeing moving to South Carolina to scads of auto manufacturers moving to the South. I think what has Whell's panties in a twist is that Amazon, owned by the same guy who owns the WashPost (and publishes articles unfavorable to his Dear Leader), is the recipient of the state's largess.

One of Whell's first posts after Trump was elected was him crowing about Carrier keeping a handful of jobs in Indiana after they were bribed by the state with $7 million in tax breaks (and which it appears they're going to lose anyway). In other words, his problem is with someone who is critical of Trump getting tax breaks from a state, not the tax breaks themselves.

...and your posts in response was how this practice was "not sustainable". I suspect that Mr. Bezos would take issue with your characterization of "sustainability". :rolleyes:

No, my problem is with folks like you and your selective indignation.

[Rajoo]

...and your posts in response was how this practice was "not sustainable". I suspect that Mr. Bezos would take issue with your characterization of "sustainability". :rolleyes:

No, my problem is with folks like you and your selective indignation.

Amazon, Bezos and by extension Washington Post seems to be your problem. FWIW, any number of states though financially imprudent, would welcome Amazon lavishing tax breaks just for bragging rights.

BTW, are you OK with Trump owning his hotel in DC while in office?
Or should we be thanking him for employing immigrant workers?
And I confess to whataboutery. :)

[Rajoo]

Speaking of tax breaks, the love triangle of Pelosi, Schumer and Trump is beginning to make sense. Trump and Schumer want to do away with the annual food fight ritual to raise the debt ceiling. It's now going to be automatic and guess what, tax breaks for Trump and his pals.

No more tax and spend, just borrow and spend. Ceiling is limited to whatever the budget calls for.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/07/trump-schumer-agree-to-pursue-plan-to-repeal-the-debt-ceiling/?utm_term=.c2f82307016d

[finnbow]

No, my problem is with folks like you and your selective indignation.

I guess you don't get irony. The practice described in the OP is commonplace across the nation and you've not criticized it whatsoever until Bezos became a likely beneficiary. Hell, you even started a thread praising the wonders of Trump when the same thing happening with Carrier in Indiana. You were again silent about the Scott Walker/Foxconn deal in Wisconsin. So, it seems you're the one guilty of selective indignation.

[Chicks]

You would think someone living in a shithole like Detroit would be screaming for Amazon to bring its high paying white collar HQ jobs. Pretty safe bet that city leaders will be responding to Amazon's RFP.

[Dondilion]

No one can serve two masters. Thanks to unlimited campaign coffers provided by the rich and powerful including corporations, politicians now serve them and people have been left out of the equation permanently.

This is why I believe America has little to no credibility selling democracy to the rest of the world. Unfettered capitalism has triumphed over democracy.

Can we call Bezos an Oligarch? :D

[bobabode]

I guess you don't get irony. The practice described in the OP is commonplace across the nation and you've not criticized it whatsoever until Bezos became a likely beneficiary. Hell, you even started a thread praising the wonders of Trump when the same thing happening with Carrier in Indiana. You were again silent about the Scott Walker/Foxconn deal in Wisconsin. So, it seems you're the one guilty of selective indignation.

Poor Whell, thought he had an argument but then shot his load prematurely. Same old shit, new day.

[whell]

I guess you don't get irony. The practice described in the OP is commonplace across the nation and you've not criticized it whatsoever until Bezos became a likely beneficiary. Hell, you even started a thread praising the wonders of Trump when the same thing happening with Carrier in Indiana. You were again silent about the Scott Walker/Foxconn deal in Wisconsin. So, it seems you're the one guilty of selective indignation.

You're the one who apparently doesn't get irony. The entire OP in this thread was ironic, since its chocked full of every lefty argument against these subsidies that the left has every made. For example, from the OP (does this really sound like something I'd say without my tongue firmly planted in my cheek?):

But Bezos, who is one of the worlds richest, should certainly be able to afford to build his new HQ without shaking down cities for tax breaks, right?

I've defended these programs multiple times as a way for cities to lure business, provided they're used intelligently. I just wonder why when Trump is involved you suggest that such programs as "not sustainable". Hmmmm???

You would think someone living in a shithole like Detroit would be screaming for Amazon to bring its high paying white collar HQ jobs. Pretty safe bet that city leaders will be responding to Amazon's RFP.

And I certainly hope they are. And if they did, they would be doing it likely with the active support and assistance of another rich guy: Dan Gilbert. Gilbert and his real estate development outfit have invested a lot of money in Detroit, so much so that one wonders if the name of the city shouldn't be changed to Gilbertville. And Gilbert has helped himself to a few of these types of tax incentives as well.

[whell]

Poor Whell, thought he had an argument but then shot his load prematurely. Same old shit, new day.

Try again, Wile E.

[d-ray657]

You're the one who apparently doesn't get irony. The entire OP in this thread was ironic, since its chocked full of every lefty argument against these subsidies that the left has every made. For example, from the OP (does this really sound like something I'd say without my tongue firmly planted in my cheek?):

But Bezos, who is one of the worlds richest, should certainly be able to afford to build his new HQ without shaking down cities for tax breaks, right?

I've defended these programs multiple times as a way for cities to lure business, provided they're used intelligently. I just wonder why when Trump is involved you suggest that such programs as "not sustainable". Hmmmm???



And I certainly hope they are. And if they did, they would be doing it likely with the active support and assistance of another rich guy: Dan Gilbert. Gilbert and his real estate development outfit have invested a lot of money in Detroit, so much so that one wonders if the name of the city shouldn't be changed to Gilbertville. And Gilbert has helped himself to a few of these types of tax incentives as well.

Stupid me - I was giving you credit for finally identifying a legitimate issue, even if the issue was with a person with whom your Dear Leader has an axe to grind. The positions advanced by a publication owned by Bezos do not motivate me to justify his abuse of economic power. He is just another capitalist whose highest moral purpose is pursuit of profit.

[Oerets]

I'm in for eliminating ALL TAX BREAKS PUBLIC FUNDS going to any business factory or sports team anywhere anytime!

It would have to be all in compassing in scope. Due to local and state governments are run by back stabbing cut throats who would sell their citizens out in a heart beat. With the false claims of jobs that never materialize the benefits promised.



Barney

[Dondilion]

Bezos probably studied Post Soviet-Russia.

[finnbow]

You're the one who apparently doesn't get irony. The entire OP in this thread was ironic, since its chocked full of every lefty argument against these subsidies that the left has every made. For example, from the OP (does this really sound like something I'd say without my tongue firmly planted in my cheek?):

But Bezos, who is one of the worlds richest, should certainly be able to afford to build his new HQ without shaking down cities for tax breaks, right?

You confuse sarcasm with irony.

I've defended these programs multiple times as a way for cities to lure business, provided they're used intelligently. I just wonder why when Trump is involved you suggest that such programs as "not sustainable". Hmmmm???

My "not sustainable" comment in reference to the much-ballyhooed Carrier deal supposedly somehow delivered by Trump it was an unsustainable model for a national job growth strategy (Trump showed up to take credit for the retained Carrier jobs while Pence's state of Indiana tried to obfuscate the $7 million tax break they gave Carrier (http://washingtonjournal.com/2017/07/03/indiana-just-got-sued-helping-trump-pence-hide-shady-carrier-deal/) in order to allow Trump to stroke his ego (and impress Trumpster simpletons like you)).

Not only isn't this a sustainable model for national economic policy, it simply isn't national policy. It's local, done at a city or state level without national funds/involvement (other than Trump jetting in and trying to take credit).:rolleyes:

[whell]

You confuse sarcasm with irony.



My "not sustainable" comment in reference to the much-ballyhooed Carrier deal supposedly somehow delivered by Trump it was an unsustainable model for a national job growth strategy (Trump showed up to take credit for the retained Carrier jobs while Pence's state of Indiana tried to obfuscate the $7 million tax break they gave Carrier (http://washingtonjournal.com/2017/07/03/indiana-just-got-sued-helping-trump-pence-hide-shady-carrier-deal/) in order to allow Trump to stroke his ego (and impress Trumpster simpletons like you)).

Not only isn't this a sustainable model for national economic policy, it simply isn't national policy. It's local, done at a city or state level without national funds/involvement (other than Trump jetting in and trying to take credit).:rolleyes:

Nice try, but no one ever said that the Carrier deal was ever intended to be a blueprint for a national model to spur job growth. Try agian.

[Oerets]

Nice try, but no one ever said that the Carrier deal was ever intended to be a blueprint for a national model to spur job growth. Try agian.



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-announces-celebrates-carrier-deal-in-indiana/



Barney

[finnbow]

Nice try, but no one ever said that the Carrier deal was ever intended to be a blueprint for a national model to spur job growth. Try agian.

Bullshit. Pence's Indiana withheld information on the $7 million tax break given to Carrier in order to give the impression that Trump was responsible for the retained jobs (a scam you bought into as evidenced by the thread you started) and that this represented the beginning of Trump's inspirational jobs program. You bought into it hook, line and sinker. I didn't.

[whell]

Bullshit. Pence's Indiana withheld information on the $7 million tax break given to Carrier in order to give the impression that Trump was responsible for the retained jobs (a scam you bought into as evidenced by the thread you started) and that this represented the beginning of Trump's inspirational jobs program. You bought into it hook, line and sinker. I didn't.

You're the one pedaling the bullshit Finn. This info was right in the NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html?_r=0) article from my post on 11/30/16, the day after the deal was announced.

The state of Indiana also plans to give economic incentives to Carrier as part of the deal to stay, according to local officials.

Your biggest problem is that you believe your own bullshit.

[finnbow]

You're the one pedaling the bullshit Finn. This info was right in the NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html?_r=0) article from my post on 11/30/16, the day after the deal was announced.

The state of Indiana also plans to give economic incentives to Carrier as part of the deal to stay, according to local officials.

Your biggest problem is that you believe your own bullshit.

You fail to understand that your link makes my point. The "deal" was announced, Trump given the credit, and the price tag for it was concealed as long as possible in order to make it appear that Trump's policies were responsible (which you bought into). This is the model I said was unsustainable (other than your buying into it).

[finnbow]

https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/ac7717d/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F0d%2F54%2F f6dc4dda4d2ba5fd62f598e07883%2F12-matt-davies-newsday-and-andrews-mcmeel-syndicate.jpg

[bobabode]

You're the one pedaling the bullshit Finn. This info was right in the NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html?_r=0) article from my post on 11/30/16, the day after the deal was announced.

The state of Indiana also plans to give economic incentives to Carrier as part of the deal to stay, according to local officials.

Your biggest problem is that you believe your own bullshit.

Sounds like your problem is you screw those blinkers down tighter and tighter when confronted with evidence that contradicts your preconceptions, Mike.

Open your eyes, man.

[Chicks]

Even fixing Wisconsin’s Foxconn deal won’t fix it, says state-requested report

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/8/6/20747166/wisconsin-foxconn-deal-state-report-lcd-factory-innovation-centers

The report, which was conducted by Tim Bartik of the Upjohn Institute for Employment Research, finds that the smaller facility raises the already unusually high cost per job even further. If the subsidy levels in the current contract are kept, each Foxconn job would cost taxpayers about $290,000, Bartik found, compared to $172,000 if Foxconn built the original $10 billion, 13,000-job facility. For comparison, Bartik estimated the subsidies Virginia offered Amazon for its second headquarters amounted to between $10,000 and $13,000 per job.

The Foxconn deal, which was signed by Walker and touted by President Trump, was supposed to be transformational for Wisconsin.


So much winning! So much bullshit from Whell and his racist, ignorant, bigoted heroes.