Vigilantes Run Amok at The Border

[bobabode]

"The FBI on Saturday arrested a man described as a commander of an armed group that has been detaining migrants in New Mexico, the state attorney general’s office said.

Larry Mitchell Hopkins, 69, of Flora Vista, New Mexico, was arrested for allegedly being a felon in possession of firearms and ammunition, New Mexico Attorney General Hector Balderas and the FBI said.

The arrest comes after New Mexico Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham, a Democrat, demanded that members of a militia group, some of whom are armed, stop detaining migrants at the New Mexico-Mexico border.

Balderas said in a statement that Hopkins is "a member of the armed group of individuals reportedly detaining migrants near Sunland Park, New Mexico." "This is a dangerous felon who should not have weapons around children and families," Balderas said. "Today's arrest by the FBI indicates clearly that the rule of law should be in the hands of trained law enforcement officials, not armed vigilantes." Jim Benvie, a spokesman for United Constitutional Patriots, said Hopkins is their "national commander."

In a letter Thursday to Lujan Grisham and Balderas, the American Civil Liberties Union of New Mexico said United Constitutional Patriots had arrested nearly 300 people Tuesday near Sunland Park, a city about 10 miles from El Paso, Texas." NBC

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fbi-arrests-member-of-armed-group-stopping-migrants-in-new-mexico/ar-BBW8xz1?ocid=spartandhp

What the hell?

[Chicks]

Taking bets that Whell’s idiot master will call these morons “patriots” and pardon them.

[d-ray657]

Taking bets that Whell’s idiot master will call these morons “patriots” and pardon them.

If there are state charges involved, Trump will be powerless. (Isn't that a compelling phrase?) Laws advancing public safety are generally with the police powers of the state, so the presence of state law charges is likely. Trump can only pardon those charged with federal crimes.

[finnbow]

I suppose this is what the NRA has in mind when it defends the need for a "well-regulated militia." :rolleyes:

[nailer]

Vigilante justice on our southern border. MAGA! ;)

[nailer]

If there are state charges involved, Trump will be powerless. (Isn't that a compelling phrase?) Laws advancing public safety are generally with the police powers of the state, so the presence of state law charges is likely. Trump can only pardon those charged with federal crimes.

If arrested and tried their defense strategy will be citizen's arrest in defense of the homeland.

[donquixote99]

I suppose this is what the NRA has in mind when it defends the need for a "well-regulated militia." :rolleyes:

It's the sort of mischief militias are always up to. The founder's faith in them was highly misplaced.

[nailer]

It's the sort of mischief militias are always up to. The founder's faith in them was highly misplaced.

Although these militias are unconstitutional. The constitutional state militias are now known as the National Guard.

[donquixote99]

Then the claims of the border bullies based on the Constitution should fail. Good.

[nailer]

Then the claims of the border bullies based on the Constitution should fail. Good.

Depends on the jury. I see a mistrial because with a good defense one jurer will see these migrants as illegal immigrants who should be arrested.

Your BB will be tried as individuals before a state judge. My strategy is based on common, not constitutional, law

[donquixote99]

You know, the BB, it seems to me, are a big challenge to the whole idea of 'rational anarchy.' Unless the 'rational' part includes some way of getting them to stop all that shit....

[Pio1980]

Depends on the jury. I see a mistrial because with a good defense one jurer will see these migrants as illegal immigrants who should be arrested.

Your BB will be tried as individuals before a state judge. My strategy is based on common, not constitutional, law
We've seen jury nullification recently in Utah with Cliven Bundy et Al.

[nailer]

You know, the BB, it seems to me, are a big challenge to the whole idea of 'rational anarchy.' Unless the 'rational' part includes some way of getting them to stop all that shit....

As a rational anarchist I'm pretty confident our system can handle the BB. What is rational anarchy? Never heard of it. Sounds oxymoronic.

[nailer]

We've seen jury nullification recently in Utah with Cliven Bundy et Al.

If the BB go to trial I don't think they will be aquitted.

[Dondilion]

As a rational anarchist I'm pretty confident our system can handle the BB. What is rational anarchy? Never heard of it. Sounds oxymoronic.

Is 'Sanctuary City' rational anarchy?

[donquixote99]

Is 'Sanctuary City' rational anarchy?

Why are you asking Nailer? He's never heard of it.

[donquixote99]

As a rational anarchist I'm pretty confident our system can handle the BB. What is rational anarchy? Never heard of it. Sounds oxymoronic.

The question, for you, was not whether 'our system' can handle it. I was sort of claiming 'rational anarchy' could not be a serious suggestion. Are you saying I was right about that?

BTW, if so, fine, and my apologies for not picking up on the irony sooner.

[nailer]

Is 'Sanctuary City' rational anarchy?

It's not anarchy and appears rational. The opposite of Sancturary City may be rational anarchy.

[nailer]

The question, for you, was not whether 'our system' can handle it. I was sort of claiming 'rational anarchy' could not be a serious suggestion. Are you saying I was right about that?

What do mean by rational anarchy? Based on your post, I can see it is not part of Professor De La Paz's concept of being a rational anarchist. :cool:

BTW, you did not ask me a question until the one above.

[finnbow]

What do mean by rational anarchy? Based on your post, I can see it is not part of Professor De La Paz's concept of being a rational anarchist. :cool:

Rational anarchy is kinda like libertarianism on steroids, or better yet Ayn Rand on acid.

[bobabode]

Rational anarchy is kinda like libertarianism on steroids, or better yet Ayn Rand on <brown> acid.

Fixed that for you. ;)

[nailer]

Rational anarchy is kinda like libertarianism on steroids, or better yet Ayn Rand on acid.

Wasn't she?

[donquixote99]

What do mean by rational anarchy? Based on your post, I can see it is not part of Professor De La Paz's concept of being a rational anarchist. :cool:

BTW, you did not ask me a question until the one above.

Ah. A clue. I should research Professor De La Paz's concept. Doubtless easier to check references than to drag much discussion out of you....

[donquixote99]

I find he is a fictional source, created by Robert A. Heinlein. So a work of art, not of philosophy. Will report further....

[donquixote99]

An appreciation of 'Rational Anarchy' from a fan is here: http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/RatAnarch/

I'm tempted to trivialize Mr. H's creation. Heinlein, though, had an absolute genius for sounding good. It's why he has fans, which included me in the past, and I'm not immune to his powers now. I will not trivialize his genius, there is doubtless some meat there.

But people aren't rational, to begin with. Rational Anarchy was created to justify what H. (and a great many others) want, and what is wanted is determined subconsciously, by the not-necessairly rational processes that create our emotional motivations.

This is where I'm coming from fundementally, but I will study David Wright's page more closely.

[nailer]

Ah. A clue. I should research Professor De La Paz's concept. Doubtless easier to check references than to drag much discussion out of you....

This subject was covered shortly after I joined. I suggest you not waste your time and go right to the source: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

[nailer]

An appreciation of 'Rational Anarchy' from a fan is here: http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/RatAnarch/

I'm tempted to trivialize Mr. H's creation. Heinlein, though, had an absolute genius for sounding good. It's why he has fans, which included me in the past, and I'm not immune to his powers now. I will not trivialize his genius, there is doubtless some meat there.

But people aren't rational, to begin with. Rational Anarchy was created to justify what H. (and a great many others) want, and what is wanted is determined subconsciously, by the not-necessairly rational processes that create our emotional motivations.

This is where I'm coming from fundementally, but I will study David Wright's page more closely.

David read a different book than I did. He also read it with an agenda in mind. The professor was indeed an anarchist as a young man and was exiled to the moon for it. As a much older man he has accepted that he will always be surrounded by authority and was still willing to fight for a just cause against oppressive authority. He was still an anarchist, but a rational one. Heinlein was also having fun with words and an idea.

[finnbow]

The leader of an armed group that is stopping undocumented migrants who cross into the US from Mexico once boasted about training to assassinate Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and George Soros, an FBI agent said in court papers on Monday.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/22/armed-militia-leader-us-border-assassination-training-fbi

[bobabode]

The leader of an armed group that is stopping undocumented migrants who cross into the US from Mexico once boasted about training to assassinate Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and George Soros, an FBI agent said in court papers on Monday.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/22/armed-militia-leader-us-border-assassination-training-fbi

Trumpers gone cray - cray. I hope the next administration cracks down on this behavior. Put 'em to work raking up our National Forests and picking up trash on the interstates.

[donquixote99]

David read a different book than I did. He also read it with an agenda in mind. The professor was indeed an anarchist as a young man and was exiled to the moon for it. As a much older man he has accepted that he will always be surrounded by authority and was still willing to fight for a just cause against oppressive authority. He was still an anarchist, but a rational one. Heinlein was also having fun with words and an idea.

As presented by David, it's a recipe for a violent society in which bands of 'friends' (it would of course become clans) battle and pursue vendettas, with leadership decided by duels. In a word, Klingons.

[nailer]

As presented by David, it's a recipe for a violent society in which bands of 'friends' (it would of course become clans) battle and pursue vendettas, with leadership decided by duels. In a word, Klingons.

The professor is a member of the revolution's leadership cell. Three members per cell. The oppressed win and nothing really changes except they are citizens. You would probably like the professor.

[donquixote99]

I've completely forgotten the plot of that, I will have to reread it.

[nailer]

I've completely forgotten the plot of that, I will have to reread it.

I put The Moon is a Harsh Mistress right up there with The Mote in God's Eye, Dune and a few others.