eyes wide open, right before the fall

[GWAR]

The mayans, gone
The byzantines, gone
The romans, gone
The aztecs, gone

If a man as simple as I can see it, why doesnt everyone else?
Is it too late?

[Charles]

I never figured on sticking around forever anyway.

Chas

[Zeke]

The mayans, gone
The byzantines, gone
The romans, gone
The aztecs, gone

If a man as simple as I can see it, why doesnt everyone else?
Is it too late?

Even if it is, we've got another 300 years. :D

[BlueStreak]

The mayans, gone
The byzantines, gone
The romans, gone
The aztecs, gone

If a man as simple as I can see it, why doesnt everyone else?
Is it too late?


They all elected a black Democratic President?
Oh, I know! It was healthcare reform that did them in?
Ahh, I got it! They worshipped the wrong God(s)?
Legalized Gay Marriage? That's it, they let their queers run amok! Ha, ha, I knew it!
Teletubbies?
Dixie Chicks?
No religious icons in public buildings? That'll do it every time!

Or, maybe.....just maybe.....They all tried to maintain a vast military empire, maintaining standing armies in far flung lands forcing other people to give up natural resources on the cheap?

Hmmm? I'll have to ponder this for a while.............

Dave

[BlueStreak]

I never figured on sticking around forever anyway.

Chas

Me neither.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Oh, BTW. Welcome back, GWAR! Long time, no see. How ya been?

Dave

[noonereal]

The mayans, gone
The byzantines, gone
The romans, gone
The aztecs, gone

If a man as simple as I can see it, why doesnt everyone else?
Is it too late?

what the hell are you talking about?
that all great civilizations come to an end?
not big news to me and i'm way simple.

But I got a feeling this post is more about a black man having you spooked.
Is it?

[Zeke]

Or, maybe.....just maybe.....They all tried to maintain a vast military empire, maintaining standing armies in far flung lands forcing other people to give up natural resources on the cheap?

Hmmm? I'll have to ponder this for a while.............

Dave

Why?

Sounds to me like you've got it!!! :(

[d-ray657]

They all elected a black Democratic President?
Oh, I know! It was healthcare reform that did them in?
Ahh, I got it! They worshipped the wrong God(s)?
Legalized Gay Marriage? That's it, they let their queers run amok! Ha, ha, I knew it!
Teletubbies?
Dixie Chicks?
No religious icons in public buildings? That'll do it every time!

Or, maybe.....just maybe.....They all tried to maintain a vast military empire, maintaining standing armies in far flung lands forcing other people to give up natural resources on the cheap?

Hmmm? I'll have to ponder this for a while.............

Dave

I see you been doing your ancient history homework.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Combwork]

Quote Bluestreak.

"Or, maybe.....just maybe.....They all tried to maintain a vast military empire, maintaining standing armies in far flung lands forcing other people to give up natural resources on the cheap?"

The Romans yes and 1000 years later the British, but one reason they fell was reaction time. Something goes wrong in a colony, it takes months to alert the capital and get instructions so the colony leader had to make his own decision as to how to deal with it.

"Things fall apart, the center does not hold" I guess some colonial leaders could think on the fly and some couldn't.

[merrylander]

Like the Charge of the Light Brigade or the invasion of Iraq, or maybe Tora Bora?

[BlueStreak]

Quote Bluestreak.

"Or, maybe.....just maybe.....They all tried to maintain a vast military empire, maintaining standing armies in far flung lands forcing other people to give up natural resources on the cheap?"

The Romans yes and 1000 years later the British, but one reason they fell was reaction time. Something goes wrong in a colony, it takes months to alert the capital and get instructions so the colony leader had to make his own decision as to how to deal with it.

"Things fall apart, the center does not hold" I guess some colonial leaders could think on the fly and some couldn't.

Combwork,

My point is that some of our conservative friends are so in love with maintaining our "vast miltary empire" that they would sacrifice anything to keep it. $708,000,000,000 per annum, in the last budget (Signed by Mr. Obama.) and growing. I will soon be assailed for being "anti-military". I am not, I am a proud veteran myself. I just happen to believe our military should be restructured more towards protecting our own borders and shores, and less toward trying to be "World Police". We would be safer and have the money to pay for other things, such as our massive debt.

Dave

[Charles]

Combwork,

My point is that some of our conservative friends are so in love with maintaining our "vast miltary empire" that they would sacrifice anything to keep it. $708,000,000,000 per annum, in the last budget (Signed by Mr. Obama.) and growing. I will soon be assailed for being "anti-military". I am not, I am a proud veteran myself. I just happen to believe our military should be restructured more towards protecting our own borders and shores, and less toward trying to be "World Police". We would be safer and have the money to pay for other things, such as our massive debt.

Dave

Agreed.

We're broke, we must get a handle on spending, and that includes cutting the military. The Federal budget needs to be cut across the boards. Our currency needs to be stabilized.

But I don't see that happening. Too many people at the top have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are.

I'd like to say that we need to get people back to work...but doing what? Modern methods of production are so efficient that we need fewer workers. Even with unemployment as high as it is, does anyone want for anything? May not be able to afford it, but it's there if you can.

I'm not so sure that anything can be done at this point. The ship's going down. You can pump water from one side of the bilge to the other to maintain an even keel, but we get closer to the waterline every day.

No wonder people are hot.

Chas

[BlueStreak]

Agreed.

But I don't see that happening. Too many people at the top have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are.

And at the bottom and some of us in the middle as well.

I'd like to say that we need to get people back to work...but doing what? Modern methods of production are so efficient that we need fewer workers. Even with unemployment as high as it is, does anyone want for anything? May not be able to afford it, but it's there if you can.

By government and Private sector investing together to build industry.

I'm not so sure that anything can be done at this point. The ship's going down. You can pump water from one side of the bilge to the other to maintain an even keel, but we get closer to the waterline every day.

The ship can be saved, but it probably won't. Because the answer would mean every American, one way or the other, even wealthy Americans, would have to make painful sacrifices. Something we have grown completely unaccustomed to. Remember, Walt Disneys employees worked FOR FREE until the movie "Fantasia" was released because he didn't have the money to pay them. Could you imagine something like that happening today? The workers would never do it, and the employer would never make that big of a gamble, he would just shut down. It's kinda sad, but that's how it is.

No wonder people are hot.

Fuck'em, Chas. Sometimes you have to run them hot to get them off their asses.

Chas

Regards,
Dave

[Combwork]

Combwork,

My point is that some of our conservative friends are so in love with maintaining our "vast miltary empire" that they would sacrifice anything to keep it. $708,000,000,000 per annum, in the last budget (Signed by Mr. Obama.) and growing. I will soon be assailed for being "anti-military". I am not, I am a proud veteran myself. I just happen to believe our military should be restructured more towards protecting our own borders and shores, and less toward trying to be "World Police". We would be safer and have the money to pay for other things, such as our massive debt.

Dave

Good points all, but the curious thing is that if the bulk of that money is spent within the 'States, doesn't it go round in circles? Without that level of spending, what would happen to unemployment? Having said that, just imagine what spending even a fraction of that money on research into a stable fusion reactor, or space exploration could achieve.

I know the latter is thorny; "Why send people; it's not worth the money when we can send robot probes that are almost as good?". It's the 'almost' that gets me; how can we know what's there if we don't look?

As for "World Police", with the possible exception of China the U.S.A. is the only country rich enough to do it and even then, I doubt it could do it on its own.

[merrylander]

Hate to put a damper on things, but according to this morning's paper;

Greece has a deficit at 15% of GDP with no prospects of growth.

We have a deficit of 10% of GDP projected to fall to 5% in four years and we do have growth . Even the Chinese have resumed buying treasuries as are several other countries looking for a safe place for their money.

Go figure.

[finnbow]

We have a deficit of 10% of GDP projected to fall to 5% in four years and we do have growth . Even the Chinese have resumed buying treasuries as are several other countries looking for a safe place for their money.

Go figure.


I guess as bad as we are, everybody else is worse. The Chinese need to invest their money somewhere. I suppose buying US treasuries is better than stuffing it under the futon, as it were.

[piece-itpete]

Combwork,

My point is that some of our conservative friends are so in love with maintaining our "vast miltary empire" that they would sacrifice anything to keep it. $708,000,000,000 per annum, in the last budget (Signed by Mr. Obama.) and growing. I will soon be assailed for being "anti-military". I am not, I am a proud veteran myself. I just happen to believe our military should be restructured more towards protecting our own borders and shores, and less toward trying to be "World Police". We would be safer and have the money to pay for other things, such as our massive debt.

Dave

If you put aside the Dems false rhetoric and examine actions they're as deep as the GOP, no use singling us out.

There is a couple things many empires have in common in the end. A fixation on appearance (check), a preponderance of wealth (check), a breakdown of the family unit (check), an entrenched interest with vast land holdings (check), a widely held belief that they can freeze things or at least that nothing will change (check).

It'll be a sad day for the world when we finally end the experiment that began after ww2 and withdraw into our own borders.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

If you put aside the Dems false rhetoric and examine actions they're as deep as the GOP, no use singling us out.

There is a couple things many empires have in common in the end. A fixation on appearance (check), a preponderance of wealth (check), a breakdown of the family unit (check), an entrenched interest with vast land holdings (check), a widely held belief that they can freeze things or at least that nothing will change (check).

It'll be a sad day for the world when we finally end the experiment that began after ww2 and withdraw into our own borders.

Pete

True. But, I would say the left would probably have less of a problem, pschologically, with a loss of empire. Telling a right winger he's no longer "number one" always seems akin to chopping his manhood off with a rusty hatchet. I'm guessing it stems from their love of competition?

Oh, and on your last sentence; It sure will. Because it will mean they'll have to defend themselves and stop sucking on Uncle Sams teet. I would think the conservative mind would be looking forward to that day?

A little irony in these points, Eh?

Dave

[Charles]

I guess as bad as we are, everybody else is worse. The Chinese need to invest their money somewhere. I suppose buying US treasuries is better than stuffing it under the futon, as it were.

Yup, we're the healthiest mule at the glue factory.

Chas

[BlueStreak]

Good points all, but the curious thing is that if the bulk of that money is spent within the 'States, doesn't it go round in circles? Without that level of spending, what would happen to unemployment? Having said that, just imagine what spending even a fraction of that money on research into a stable fusion reactor, or space exploration could achieve.

I know the latter is thorny; "Why send people; it's not worth the money when we can send robot probes that are almost as good?". It's the 'almost' that gets me; how can we know what's there if we don't look?

As for "World Police", with the possible exception of China the U.S.A. is the only country rich enough to do it and even then, I doubt it could do it on its own.

This used to be true Combwork. It was a big part of the massive growth during and for about 35-40 years after WW2. The problem is most of that heavy manufacturing capacity is gone. The military just doesn't order hardware in the numbers it did during the Cold War and the various "Hot" Wars. The price tag is high because of the price per unit cost of the goods, not the volume. Therefore increased spending doesn't always mean more jobs. This is the double edge sword of efficiency and high tech manufacturing.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Hate to put a damper on things, but according to this morning's paper;

Greece has a deficit at 15% of GDP with no prospects of growth.

We have a deficit of 10% of GDP projected to fall to 5% in four years and we do have growth . Even the Chinese have resumed buying treasuries as are several other countries looking for a safe place for their money.

Go figure.

Stop it, Rob. Good news is forbidden. Well, until November, of course. And even then only if the country moves right again.:D

Dave

[piece-itpete]

Yup, we're the healthiest mule at the glue factory.

Chas

Lmao!! Or is that :cry:


True. But, I would say the left would probably have less of a problem, pschologically, with a loss of empire. Telling a right winger he's no longer "number one" always seems akin to chopping his manhood off with a rusty hatchet. I'm guessing it stems from their love of competition?

Oh, and on your last sentence; It sure will. Because it will mean they'll have to defend themselves and stop sucking on Uncle Sams teet. I would think the conservative mind would be looking forward to that day?

A little irony in these points, Eh?

Dave

Somebody has to be on top. If not us, who? Europe is nutless. China is the only real possibility at this point, and people say we're bad...

The anachy or near-anachy that will follow our demise will be a sad day for just about the entire world population.

Consider just one facet: the aid the free world sends to Africa will be one of the first things to go. Millions dead, a horrible starvation death.

Pete

[merrylander]

Lmao!! Or is that :cry:




Somebody has to be on top. If not us, who? Europe is nutless. China is the only real possibility at this point, and people say we're bad...

The anachy or near-anachy that will follow our demise will be a sad day for just about the entire world population.

Consider just one facet: the aid the free world sends to Africa will be one of the first things to go. Millions dead, a horrible starvation death.

Pete


Really? Gee I thought it was the right that said "to hell with too big to fail let them fail." So if the Somalis, Zimbabweans, etc. want to slaughter each other, let them. Why should we stand between the Sunnis or Shia in Iraq, let them have at it. Karzai and the Taliban? be my guest.

Starving in Africa? Of course they are and until they stop screwing themselves out of a seat at the dinner table they always will. Look what Pax Romana bought the Romans, and Pax Americana will be no different, a lot of young men and women sacrificed because a bunch of old men can't get their shit together.:mad:

[piece-itpete]

I get'cha Rob, but our standard of living (and degree of freedom) would suffer mightly as well.

So we have a decision I think.

Pete

[merrylander]

I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be.
Thomas Jefferson

Peace and friendship with all mankind is our wisest policy, and I wish we may be permitted to pursue it.
Thomas Jefferson