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piece-itpete
06-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Bet you never thought I'd say that! It's a big f'in deal lol.

Pete

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/07/gulf.oil.obama/index.html

Charles
06-08-2010, 02:48 PM
Bet you never thought I'd say that! It's a big f'in deal lol.

Pete

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/07/gulf.oil.obama/index.html

A longshoreman in another life?

Nah, just a metaphor for the great unwashed. Does anyone really thing he's gonna kick the asses of the people who hold the purse strings?

If he tries, he'll find out just what being a puppet is.

Chas

d-ray657
06-08-2010, 04:37 PM
A longshoreman in another life?

Nah, just a metaphor for the great unwashed. Does anyone really thing he's gonna kick the asses of the people who hold the purse strings?

If he tries, he'll find out just what being a puppet is.

Chas

It's a lot harder to buy the President than in it a congressman. Unless he is bought and sold before he enters the white house, he's already earned his stripes by getting in the oval office. I think most of his constituency harbors bad feelings toward BP, and their money is not going to change that.

Regards,

D-Ray

JJIII
06-08-2010, 07:15 PM
It's a lot harder to buy the President than in is a congressman. Unless he is bought and sold before he enters the white house

Regards,

D-Ray

Now there's a thought!

d-ray657
06-08-2010, 10:57 PM
Do any of you think Obama is beholden to BP - or to any oil giant for that matter.

I agree that the corporocrats have their hooks into most members of congress to one extent or another, but I think the way Obama went about his fundraising and campaigning left him somewhat free of special interest influence. You can see that the left, who were likely his biggest supporters have not had their wish list at the top of his agenda. He hasn't pushed the Free Choice bill, he compromised the health care bill nearly to death, he increased the troops in Afghanistan (a campaign promise that many of the supporters on the left probably ignored), and he hasn't moved with the speed expected in getting out of Iraq and Gitmo. Indeed, Obama is nowhere near that leftist that the right wing purveyors of misinformation portray him to be.

His walk down the middle of the road is the track he intended to travel all along. In no way, however, do I see it as obedience to corporate masters.

Regards,

D-Ray

piece-itpete
06-09-2010, 08:59 AM
If he's not beholden, why didn't he vet his enforcement agencies before he announced expanded 'drill baby drill' operations two weeks before the well went south?

Pete

piece-itpete
06-09-2010, 11:19 AM
OUCH!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/06/rahm-emanuel-bp-gul-oil-spill.html

Pete

Boreas
06-09-2010, 11:47 AM
I'm not happy admitting I'm reduced to this kind of argument but I am, to wit:

Would you rather have McCain and Palin in there?

Face it, folks, the system is broken. It's simply not possible to win elective office any more without selling out to the corporatocracy. It just takes too much money.

Of course, then you have candidates who actually are the corporatocracy like Bloomberg and now like Carly Fiorina. Fiorina, the former (fired) CEO of Hewlett Packard, just spent $80 million to win the Republican senatorial primary here in California. She raised only $9 million in contributions and coughed up $71 million of her own money.

John

piece-itpete
06-09-2010, 02:04 PM
Great post!

But yes I'd rather have McCain, and he's still alive :D

Money money money. On the one hand it's a nice thought, that having your own money frees them from special interest pressure.

On the other hand, what if they go off the reservation.

Pete

Boreas
06-09-2010, 08:24 PM
Great post!

Well, maybe almost a great post. I got it wrong. It wasn't Carly who spent 71 million of her own scratch to win her primary. It was Meg Whitman to win the gubernatorial primary. Whitman is the founder of that damned auction site.

But yes I'd rather have McCain, and he's still alive :D

McCain, in my opinion, has revealed himself to be utterly without principles. He has reversed himself on virtually every position he has ever held. Add to that the astounding lack of judgment he showed in selecting Palin as his Vee Pee and you have man who would have been a complete disaster as president.

Money money money. On the one hand it's a nice thought, that having your own money frees them from special interest pressure.

The people with that kind of scratch are the special interests

On the other hand, what if they go off the reservation.

Pete

General Crook?

John

BlueStreak
06-09-2010, 11:36 PM
Well, maybe almost a great post. I got it wrong. It wasn't Carly who spent 71 million of her own scratch to win her primary. It was Meg Whitman to win the gubernatorial primary. Whitman is the founder of that damned auction site.

Yep. Remember the fury from "that damned auction site(s)" sellers when she hiked their fees?

McCain, in my opinion, has revealed himself to be utterly without principles. He has reversed himself on virtually every position he has ever held. Add to that the astounding lack of judgment he showed in selecting Palin as his Vee Pee and you have man who would have been a complete disaster as president.

In other words, McCain is a reflection of the present day Republican Party as a whole.

The people with that kind of scratch are the special interests

Precisely.

General Crook?

Yep.

John

Great post, John.

Dave

piece-itpete
06-10-2010, 09:45 AM
I don't recall the left saying that about Kerry :hdscratch:

Pete

Boreas
06-10-2010, 10:17 AM
I don't recall the left saying that about Kerry :hdscratch:

Pete

Saying what about Kerry?

[EDIT] By the way, in case you're confused on this point, I'm not "the left". I'm me. I'm only responsible for what I say.

John

piece-itpete
06-10-2010, 10:58 AM
That Kerry was fantastically rich and therefore a special interest embodied in one person.

I said 'the left' because they didn't, and I don't know what you said back then.

Pete

Boreas
06-10-2010, 11:27 AM
That Kerry was fantastically rich and therefore a special interest embodied in one person.

I said 'the left' because they didn't, and I don't know what you said back then.

Pete

Kerry's worth about $200 million. Carly Fiorina is worth over $2 billion and Meg Whitman is worth around $1.5 billion, orders of magnitude different. Plus, Kerry didn't self-finance his campaign the way Whitman, Bloomberg and Romney did.

I didn't remark on Kerry's money at the time because I didn't see it as relevant to a race in which we had two multi-millionaire Skull and Bones Bohos running against each other.

John

piece-itpete
06-10-2010, 12:31 PM
"The richest U.S. presidents
It is difficult to compare personal wealth across historical periods, but below is our best estimate of the relative net worths of the richest five U.S. presidents. The rankings are based on our own calculations and extensive interviews with presidential historians.

The richest presidents
Rank Name Party Term
1. George Washington Federalist 1789-1797
2. John F. Kennedy Democrat 1961-1963
John F. Kerry* Democrat NA
3. Andrew Jackson Democrat 1829-1837
4. Lyndon B. Johnson Democrat 1963-1969
5. Herbert Hoover Republican 1929-1933

* Candidate. NA: not applicable.

Sen. Kerry, like the last JFK from Massachusetts to serve as commander in chief, is also extremely wealthy. We estimate his family fortune at $525 million, which would make him, if elected, the third-richest president ever. But the key word is "family." The Kerry money comes from his wife, Theresa Heinz Kerry, who inherited it from her late husband, Sen. John Heinz III of the Heinz food family."

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/extra/P74989.asp

That's one of many estimates. Still quite wealthy and raised as a wealthy kid.

Lets' see where Obama lands regarding personal wealth 10-20 years from now.

Pete

Boreas
06-10-2010, 12:52 PM
That's one of many estimates. Still quite wealthy and raised as a wealthy kid.

These guys are all richer than we are (http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/overview.php) but Forbes cracks me up. If Kerry had been the Republican candidate do you think they would have run that article?

Lets' see where Obama lands regarding personal wealth 10-20 years from now.

Oh, I'm sure you already know the answer to that. ;)

John

d-ray657
06-10-2010, 12:55 PM
I think the thing about the ladies from California is that they bring the CEO/corporate mindset with them -- The most important thing is the bottom line. I think there are more important priorities than the corporate bottom line. Corporate America does well enough protecting its bottom line without help from the Uncle.

Regards,

D-Ray

piece-itpete
06-10-2010, 12:56 PM
I don't know, because the sky is the limit. 50 mil? 100 mil? More?

If he breaks 10 I'd say that's pretty good for a down home community organiser ;)

Pete

d-ray657
06-10-2010, 01:07 PM
The GOP did a pretty good job of making sure that Clinton didn't leave office with as much money as he brought in.

Regards,

D-Ray

Charles
06-10-2010, 05:07 PM
I think the thing about the ladies from California is that they bring the CEO/corporate mindset with them -- The most important thing is the bottom line. I think there are more important priorities than the corporate bottom line. Corporate America does well enough protecting its bottom line without help from the Uncle.

Regards,

D-Ray

That's one way to look at it.

Another way is that they understand how to succeed at something. And they can count.

Chas

Boreas
06-10-2010, 05:20 PM
That's one way to look at it.

Another way is that they understand how to succeed at something. And they can count.

Chas

I wouldn't exactly call Carly Fiorina's tenure at HP a success. She sent thirty thousand jobs to China, sent HP's stock down the tubes and got her sorry ass fired. Her severance package is largely responsible for her being a billionaire.

John

Twodogs
06-11-2010, 06:52 PM
I think the thing about the ladies from California is that they bring the CEO/corporate mindset with them -- The most important thing is the bottom line. I think there are more important priorities than the corporate bottom line. Corporate America does well enough protecting its bottom line without help from the Uncle.

Regards,

D-Ray

I think in general women are easier to trust. In this atmosphere of corruption, I think women have an edge. Same as if we were in a "real" war, where our shores were at stake, men would have the edge politically. It certainly doesn't hurt either sex to have a truly amazing buisness resume right now. But like the liberal media, I won't give any credit to Palin.:D Some bimbo on MSNBC attributed their success to Hillary Clinton.:confused:

As far as Obama kicking ass, I can't even get a visual image of that after all the apologizing he has done for us. If anything at all good comes from this horrible tragedy, it will be that Obama gets outed for the incompetent boob that he is. I think it's hilarious when FOX News busts his balls for something and then he does whatever it is in the next day or two. I honestly believe that he has NO clue how to handle something this big.:(

westgate
06-11-2010, 07:06 PM
I honestly believe that he has NO clue how to handle something this big.:(

so whom do you think could handle something this big?

Twodogs
06-11-2010, 07:14 PM
so whom do you think could handle something this big?

I could name a number of politicians that I feel could be doing a much better job. What has Obama done? Has he even called BP's CEO yet? I just can't understand why comunicating with the CEO of this company would be a bad idea. Seriously though, what has Obama done now that we are approaching two months?:confused:

westgate
06-11-2010, 07:23 PM
I could name a number of politicians that I feel could be doing a much better job. :confused:

please name one.

Twodogs
06-11-2010, 09:05 PM
please name one.

I can guarentee that you would not approve of them.:D Let's try it this way. How would the left (and the mainstream media) be reacting if it was a republican sitting on his hands while the gulf coast is being destroyed. I truly believe that every move Obama makes has more to do with "him" than with anything else. I can imagine him pondering "How will this affect me and my ability to get my agenda through". I only hope that we can get to November before too much more damage is done.:( I can see the Democrats using this tragedy to help shove Cap and Trade through.

d-ray657
06-11-2010, 09:25 PM
I can guarentee that you would not approve of them.:D Let's try it this way. How would the left (and the mainstream media) be reacting if it was a republican sitting on his hands while the gulf coast is being destroyed. I truly believe that every move Obama makes has more to do with "him" than with anything else. I can imagine him pondering "How will this affect me and my ability to get my agenda through". I only hope that we can get to November before too much more damage is done.:( I can see the Democrats using this tragedy to help shove Cap and Trade through.

What else should he have done? Should he have taken over an oil company?

Regards,

D-Ray

merrylander
06-12-2010, 07:10 AM
Watching Newshour's Shields and Brooks (damn I wish that man would sit still) last night I can only conclude that as far as the media is concerned Obama can't win. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If I was in his shoes I would ask for airtime Monday night and tell the country "I quit, you can take the Presidency and shove it".

Charles
06-12-2010, 07:56 AM
What else should he have done? Should he have taken over an oil company?

Regards,

D-Ray

"Barack Petroleum" has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

For one, he could spend a little less time on the links and a little more time trying to expedite the cleanup. Myself, the first ass I would kick would be the EPA's for dragging their feet. Then I'd check my list.

And I have to agree with the Dogman...Obammy talking tough is laughable.

Chas

Twodogs
06-12-2010, 09:09 AM
If I was in his shoes I would ask for airtime Monday night and tell the country "I quit, you can take the Presidency and shove it".

Hmm, then we would have Biden. I'd take that swap in a minute.:)

BlueStreak
06-12-2010, 09:17 AM
Welcome back, TD.

BlueStreak
06-12-2010, 09:20 AM
I wouldn't exactly call Carly Fiorina's tenure at HP a success. She sent thirty thousand jobs to China, sent HP's stock down the tubes and got her sorry ass fired. Her severance package is largely responsible for her being a billionaire.

John

Sounds almost as abysmal as GWs business running history. Just the kind of incompetent boob the Republicans love.

Dave

BlueStreak
06-12-2010, 09:29 AM
Here's what I see going on here;

For the first couple of weeks we let private industry handle the disaster they created. BP says; "That's quite alright, mate, we've got it."

So we let private industry handle it. (Reagan would have been proud.)

How'd that work out?

Regards,
Dave

BlueStreak
06-12-2010, 09:30 AM
Hmm, then we would have Biden. I'd take that swap in a minute.:)

Because he's white?

Regards,
Dave

Twodogs
06-12-2010, 10:38 AM
Damn! You lefties are getting faster and faster with that race card. Sort of like a quick draw gun slinger I guess, the more you practice the faster you get.:D

Ask yourself this, and be honest. Would twodogs like a white guy with the same political agenda? Why is it always the left that brings up the whole race issue, but it is the right that is racist?:confused: As I have stated time and again, I am guilty of stereotyping, but I am not a racist. Allow me to bloviate; If the local news guy starts a story about a car jacking in Kansas City, Kansas, I'm 99% sure that the suspect picture will be that of a black dude. It's percentages and reality, not racism. If I see 10 Mexican dudes loytering in the parking lot of Home Depot, I will wager money (and lots of it) that at least some of them cannot produce any type of legal papers. To think otherwise would be like the guy that drinks a fifth of whisky a day, but says he doesn't have an alcohol problem. That guy is eventually going to destroy everything good in his life, just like ignoring other "obvious" problems that we face in America, is eventually going to cost us dearly. I could go on and on with other examples, but if you don't get these very basic, and common sense concepts, you will never understand me. I think liberals think with their hearts, while conservatives look at real facts, then make a decision based on those.

BlueStreak
06-12-2010, 10:50 AM
Bidens "agenda" isn't the same, or dang close to it, as Obamas?

"I think liberals think with their hearts, while conservatives look at real facts, then make a decision based on those."

"Real Facts"? Really? So the shit Beck spews are "Real Facts"? The things we see and hear coming from the Tea Partiers are "Real Facts"?

Did you even read my other two posts?

Dave

Charles
06-12-2010, 11:11 AM
Happiest person I know has the IQ of a child.

At times I envy him.

Chas

merrylander
06-12-2010, 11:15 AM
Happiest person I know has the IQ of a child.

At times I envy him.

Chas

Know what you mean.:(

d-ray657
06-12-2010, 11:15 AM
Here's some facts for us. Corporate America has outsourced our way of life. They make moves for short-term profit, without respect to the effect on the communities in which they do - or did - business. And they were getting tax breaks for doing it! :mad:

The facts are that them that's got will get more, and they'll take it form those who have less. Can we change the law so we avoid paying for injuries to our workers? Can we pay our workers less by busting their union? Can we save a few thousand dollars by using a cheaper design for our offshore well? Can we let the sucker who bought our bad loans foreclose on homeowners after we've taken our slice? Can we bribe doctors to fill their patients up with so many medications that no one knows what the patient's real problem is? Should we pour all of our resources in to a hard-on drug because that's where the profits are? Is making sure we get our bonus and commissions by raising the premiums more important than providing everyone with access to health care? Screw government regulations, but bail us out when we screw up.

Neither the right nor the left leave emotion out of the equation. The right has been quite successful at manipulating fear and hate to sell their agenda.:(

Regards,

D-Ray

westgate
06-12-2010, 11:19 AM
Quote:

Hmm, then we would have Biden. I'd take that swap in a minute.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Because he's white?
=================================================
i wondered the same thing.
a lot of these righties still can't get over having a black man in the white house, imo.
i think their daddies told them it would be the end of the world if that ever happened.

Charles
06-12-2010, 11:22 AM
I think this forum is far more effective than ANY hard on pill.

No offense Don, but the left is just as beholding to the corporations as the right. At least in my estimation.

Chas

Charles
06-12-2010, 11:23 AM
Quote:

Hmm, then we would have Biden. I'd take that swap in a minute.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Because he's white?
=================================================
i wondered the same thing.
a lot of these righties still can't get over having a black man in the white house, imo.
i think their daddies told them it would be the end of the world if that ever happened.

Leave my daddy out of it!!!!!!

Chas

d-ray657
06-12-2010, 11:53 AM
I think this forum is far more effective than ANY hard on pill.

No offense Don, but the left is just as beholding to the corporations as the right. At least in my estimation.

Chas

I will agree with you that too many Democrats are beholden to corporations, but there are very few in congress who are very leftist at all. The problem is that the corporations have far too much influence in the power structure. I don't see us having a real democracy until we find a way to get corporate money out of the hands of the politicians.

You might say I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one . . .

Regards,

D-Ray

Twodogs
06-12-2010, 11:53 AM
I just can't argue with true leftist. If they can't see how their own posts prove the points I'm trying to make, then I will never be able to convince them. I will respond to D-Rays posts because it is the most frightening to me.

It sounds like what you want is; "Take from each according to their ability, give to each according to their need." I think that it's been proven plenty of times that all that gets you is more needy folks, while it strangles visionaries. Freedom is just that my friend, free to spend every dime I make on hard pills if I choose to. Free to fake a long term work related injury, and srew up the system for legitimate claims. Free to sink into the gutter and live off the scraps of society. Free to pull myself up out of that gutter and become a millionaire. Freedom to hate people only because of their skin color. Free to hate folks that hate folks only because of their skin color. Free to put on my seatbelt, or leave it off. I don't want the US government, who happens to be the largest and most corrupt buisness on the planet, to regulate me, and other "Free" Americans. Trust me when I say that, even though Utopia seems like a great idea, the government is not the way. There is greed, hate, and plenty of misplaced anger in the world just like there is charity, love, and forgivness. All I want is the freedom to decide these things for myself, and freedom for you to do the same.:)

d-ray657
06-12-2010, 12:22 PM
If the tea partiers really wanted to cut government spending, they would hold their rallies in front of major weapons manufacturers. I would defy you to find anyone more dependent on the government tit - and more capable of grabbing it.

Regards,

D-Ray

Boreas
06-12-2010, 12:57 PM
I think this forum is far more effective than ANY hard on pill.

No offense Don, but the left is just as beholding to the corporations as the right. At least in my estimation.

Chas

I would agree that many elected Democrats are in the pockets of big business but the problem isn't as pervasive among Democrats as it is among Republicans. The problem is the amount of money required to win an election these days. Unless you yourself are a billionaire it's impossible to win without "corporate sponsorship".

As to the "left", there is no left to speak of where our representation is concerned. Aside from Bernie Sanders and maybe Russ Feingold, there's nobody from the left holding elected office at the national level.

John

merrylander
06-12-2010, 01:14 PM
Loved a letter to the editor in Time. "I agree with Rand Paul and if he or his daddy came into my restaurant I would say "I'm sorry we don't serve your kind in here"".:p

BlueStreak
06-12-2010, 01:46 PM
Freedom is just that my friend, free to spend every dime I make on hard pills if I choose to. Free to fake a long term work related injury, and srew up the system for legitimate claims. Free to sink into the gutter and live off the scraps of society. Free to pull myself up out of that gutter and become a millionaire. Freedom to hate people only because of their skin color. Free to hate folks that hate folks only because of their skin color. Free to put on my seatbelt, or leave it off. I don't want the US government, who happens to be the largest and most corrupt buisness on the planet, to regulate me, and other "Free" Americans. Trust me when I say that, even though Utopia seems like a great idea, the government is not the way. There is greed, hate, and plenty of misplaced anger in the world just like there is charity, love, and forgivness. All I want is the freedom to decide these things for myself, and freedom for you to do the same.:)

You're not free to fail or succeed now? There are no rich or poor people living in America?:confused:

Maybe the government shouldn't (can't) stop us from hating, or hating those who hate. But it should be there to keep us from deliberately bringing harm to each other. Anything less is anarchy. Sorry TD, I just can't see how a society without law enforcement would do anything but degenerate into bloody chaos. And how do you make and enforce laws without strong government? Seatbelts again, oh the oppression! Stalin himself could have never conceived of such tyranny.:rolleyes:

As I see it, most Americans don't have a clue what real tyranny is. They have never, ever experienced it, not even now. And I believe that's a good thing. However, this also means they don't know it when they see it. I personally don't see how government making ethanol regulation for gasoline, or the amount of fat in fast food (for example) is tyranny. Some people are all wound up about it. I worry more about a bunch of self-appointed "True Patriots" armed to the teeth and thinking they have a Constitutional right to force their will upon the rest of us. Most of the ones I know personally are hate filled idiots just itching for an excuse to vent their anger. (And that's no one here, to my knowledge.) But, THAT, I worry about. If it takes a strong government to keep people like that at bay----I'm all for it, and I always will be.

Guess that's just the difference between us, TD.

Regards,
Dave

merrylander
06-12-2010, 05:05 PM
Well now Dave, if we were truly free we would be free to build our own roads,. Fording the Potomace might be fun but you could always build a raft I guess.

Wood stoves have a certain charm as do whale oil lamps. I guess we could get all our friends and family to learn Morse code and get one of the hand crank generators you gripped between your knees a la WW II.

Of course I realize that the lamps would be unnecessary as there would likely be no newspapers or books. Oh there may be some up north but without roads and transportation how would we get them down here?

Ah yes, the good old days are here at last, the good old days can kiss my . . .:rolleyes:

Charles
06-12-2010, 05:08 PM
Isn't there a point when government intervention into all aspects of one's life becomes a bit much.

As far as I'm concerned, they've reached that point long ago.

Chas

Boreas
06-12-2010, 05:12 PM
Isn't there a point when government intervention into all aspects of one's life becomes a bit much.

As far as I'm concerned, they've reached that point long ago.

Chas

I'd be curious to learn some examples of government intrusion into your life.

John

Twodogs
06-12-2010, 05:23 PM
Isn't there a point when government intervention into all aspects of one's life becomes a bit much.

As far as I'm concerned, they've reached that point long ago.

Chas

No, no Charles, if you want roads, you have to have a Nanny State.:p

I swear, it's not even fun debating with the extreme left anymore. They don't have any valid argumenmts, so they just post nonsense.

Boreas
06-12-2010, 05:34 PM
No, no Charles, if you want roads, you have to have a Nanny State.:p

TD, I'll ask you more or less the same question I asked Chas. What are some of the things government is doing that put it in the role of a "nanny state"?

John

merrylander
06-12-2010, 05:40 PM
No, no Charles, if you want roads, you have to have a Nanny State.:p

I swear, it's not even fun debating with the extreme left anymore. They don't have any valid argumenmts, so they just post nonsense.

Not a nanny state but someone to acquire the land, design the road's path and build the effing roads, or are all you libertatrians going to band together and do it. I can just see the fun when you run into some liberal's farm who tells you to f**k off.:p

Used to see that in Quebec even with government, when the road would hit the farm of some chap who was known to have voted for the other party there would be a 90 degree bend until the road reach a loyal voter's farm, then another 90 degree turn and the road progress onward.:rolleyes:

Maybe I need to post a copy of the letter that accompanied the Constitution to all of the state governments asking for ratification, t'would kinda shoot holes in a lot of this libertarian BS.:D

Next they will be proposing Scientology, oh sorry Angle has already done that. Ay Dios Mio.

Exits left humming a couple of choruses of Me and Bobby McGee.

Twodogs
06-12-2010, 06:14 PM
Loved a letter to the editor in Time. "I agree with Rand Paul and if he or his daddy came into my restaurant I would say "I'm sorry we don't serve your kind in here"".:p

And Rand Paul would love to give him that right.:)

BlueStreak
06-12-2010, 08:11 PM
And Rand Paul would love to give him that right.:)

And Rand Paul can go to hell.:D

Why is it so important to you that racist business owners regain the right to refuse customers based strictly upon their race? I couldn't give a shit less whether a good ol' boy bigot gets his will broken. As a matter of fact, I rather enjoy it.:)

Dave

BlueStreak
06-12-2010, 08:14 PM
TD, I'll ask you more or less the same question I asked Chas. What are some of the things government is doing that put it in the role of a "nanny state"?

John

Yeah, what about that? Do you feel oppressed by food labels too? Think you have a constitutional right to eat the plastic overwrap and block your colon?

Dave

BlueStreak
06-12-2010, 08:18 PM
Well now Dave, if we were truly free we would be free to build our own roads,. Fording the Potomace might be fun but you could always build a raft I guess.

Wood stoves have a certain charm as do whale oil lamps. I guess we could get all our friends and family to learn Morse code and get one of the hand crank generators you gripped between your knees a la WW II.

Of course I realize that the lamps would be unnecessary as there would likely be no newspapers or books. Oh there may be some up north but without roads and transportation how would we get them down here?

Ah yes, the good old days are here at last, the good old days can kiss my . . .:rolleyes:

Are you suggesting a "backwardness" is evident, Rob?

Dave

BlueStreak
06-12-2010, 08:21 PM
Exits left humming a couple of choruses of Me and Bobby McGee.

"Freedoms just another word for nuthin' left to lose............"

Hmmmmm......Maybe Kristofferson could see the "race to the bottom" coming way back then? Now, that's visionary.

Dave

merrylander
06-13-2010, 07:46 AM
Are you suggesting a "backwardness" is evident, Rob?

Dave

I think that I am beginning to feel that the majorities on both left and right are too busy singing Jingo Bells and not enough time in deep thought, but then what do I know.:confused:

Charles
06-13-2010, 09:30 AM
I'd be curious to learn some examples of government intrusion into your life.

John

The Federal Tax Code.

No Knock Warrants and Asset Forfeiture, not personally affected, but horribly abused by our masters.

Mandated ethanol gasoline, plays hell with older 2 stroke outboards and fiberglass fuel tanks.

RRP legislation, my current sore spot. If you live in a house built before 1978, there's a good chance it's going to become your current sore spot as well.

I'll even throw in The Patriot Act as well.

Now get out there and mow your yard, before Code Enforcement shows up and hands you some paper.

Chas

BTW, I never said I was against ALL regulations.

BlueStreak
06-13-2010, 09:30 AM
I agree, Rob. This country will continue to to fall until someone gets serious about moving forward. All either side seems to give a damn about is holding on to power.

We have one side that has people thinking the answer to every problem is government. And the other side thinking the government is entirely evil....well, except when they ARE the government, of course.

And then there is the public, stuck in the middle, dazed and confused, wondering; "How will I pay for my healthcare when I am unable to work?", "Is my government protecting us from terrorism?", "When is America gonna start building industry again?" and other issues that directly and deeply affect our future. As the politicians squabble about queers, religious artifacts in public buildings, the latest sex scandals, and a host of other things that don't really matter at all when you get right down to it.

Rock On,
Dave

Charles
06-13-2010, 09:44 AM
I agree, Rob. This country will continue to to fall until someone gets serious about moving forward. All either side seems to give a damn about is holding on to power.

We have one side that has people thinking the answer to every problem is government. And the other side thinking the government is entirely evil....well, except when they ARE the government, of course.

And then there is the public, stuck in the middle, dazed and confused, wondering; "How will I pay for my healthcare when I am unable to work?", "Is my government protecting us from terrorism?", "When is America gonna start building industry again?" and other issues that directly and deeply affect our future. As the politicians squabble about queers, religious artifacts in public buildings, the latest sex scandals, and a host of other things that don't really matter at all when you get right down to it.

Rock On,
Dave

Dazed and confused?

Not this cowpoke, I know when I'm being bent over the bar.

Chas

Sandy G
06-13-2010, 10:23 AM
The ones that chap my azz are the stuff like mandatory seatbelt laws, & the outrageous intrusions on privacy when you go to an airport...I KNOW the seatbelt stuff is For My Own Good, but dammit, I STILL don't like being told what to do-it's MY neck, after all, if I don't wanna "buckle up", I shouldn't be hectored by a bunch of silly-ass bongs & chimes in the car, or have to worry about some jerkwater cop trying to pay for his salary. The airport business-Again, yeah, I guess its necessary after 9/11 & all, but...I REALLY wonder if we're all that much more safe w/25 morbidly obese, somnolent black women sitting around every airport gimlet-eyed, perusing every passenger...Or is it simply a HUGE make-work project, & get that many more people on the Gummint teat...Most of the people you see as TSA agents are either the aforementioned weighty waddlers, or weaselish types who REALLY get into it & dearly love tossing their authority around over the helpless sheeple. And Janet Big Sis, doesn't she remind you of the snarky gal who was the student gov't big shot, but who never had a date, or many friends in the 1st place, because she WAS so snarky & disagreeable ?

merrylander
06-13-2010, 10:43 AM
Considering that I installled both seatbelts and a dash pad in a 1962 Ford Falcon what I resent was whoever decided that air bags shouls protect a 150 male who was too effing stupid to wear a setbalt. Said airbag will kill a short woman sitting close toe the wheel. Let the 150 pound male die, darwinism in action.

BTW the seatbelts prolly saved my ass when I rolled that Falcon.

Boreas
06-13-2010, 10:48 AM
The Federal Tax Code.

All of it or just certain parts?

No Knock Warrants and Asset Forfeiture, not personally affected, but horribly abused by our masters.

Agree on "No Knock". I have since Reagan. Asset forfeiture for what? Back taxes or criminal activity?

Mandated ethanol gasoline, plays hell with older 2 stroke outboards and fiberglass fuel tanks.

I have no problem with that but my Bultaco Metralla feels differently about it.

RRP legislation, my current sore spot. If you live in a house built before 1978, there's a good chance it's going to become your current sore spot as well.

As a general statement, I think mandating safe work practices is a good idea when they protect the customer from incompetent or unscrupulous workmen. RRP seems to be an example of that. I just wish California would adopt the less strict Federal standard.

[/QUOTE]I'll even throw in The Patriot Act as well.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely!

Now get out there and mow your yard, before Code Enforcement shows up and hands you some paper.

Can't mow redwood needles. ;)

John

Charles
06-13-2010, 12:13 PM
All of it or just certain parts?



Agree on "No Knock". I have since Reagan. Asset forfeiture for what? Back taxes or criminal activity?



I have no problem with that but my Bultaco Metralla feels differently about it.



As a general statement, I think mandating safe work practices is a good idea when they protect the customer from incompetent or unscrupulous workmen. RRP seems to be an example of that. I just wish California would adopt the less strict Federal standard.

I'll even throw in The Patriot Act as well.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely!



Can't mow redwood needles. ;)

John[/QUOTE]

The tax code is so bloated and onerous that it need to be simplified. I also understand that I will be required to send a 1099 to everyone who I spend $600 with during the tax year, including suppliers. Before, it only applied to subcontractors who weren't incorporated. May be wrong, I don't pay that much attention as I have a CPA who does.

Asset forfeiture when the government can seize your vehicle if you have an illegal squirrel in your possession or little nimrod gets caught smoking a joint in it. Out and out theft.

A Buccitocca Merto...is that some kind of murdercycle???

RRP. I've been tearing out trim, plaster, etc with lead paint on it for close to 40 years, and no one has ever got sick, much less died. Everyone knows about lead paint by now and I don't mind telling the few who don't that it can be a hazard. But the opt out clause expires on 7-6-10, so from then on it's plastic barriers, moon suits, respirators, EPA certified HEPA vacs, etc...plus a shitload of paperwork. Why not inform everyone of the dangers and let them make their own decision? Must every law be aimed at the lowest common denominator?

BTW, the gubbmitt did a costs analysis and came up with a figure that it will only add something like $167 to each job. This was done by either idiots or liars.

BTW, you CAN mow redwood needles...I used to mow rocks in Texas!!!

Chas

Boreas
06-13-2010, 01:24 PM
A Buccitocca Merto...is that some kind of murdercycle?

http://www.nydesmo.com/images/bul_DSCN1244.jpg

John

Charles
06-13-2010, 02:11 PM
http://www.nydesmo.com/images/bul_DSCN1244.jpg

John

Good lookin' murdercycle.

I'd be plumb proud to kill myself with one of them (I'm scared to death of mudercycles).

Chas

Boreas
06-13-2010, 02:42 PM
Good lookin' murdercycle.

Yes, it is. I only wish it was really mine ;) It's just one of several classic bikes I'd love to have but it would probably just end up collecting rust and dust waiting for restoration like the Yamaha. :(

John