Justice Department Sues Arizona [Archive]

Charles

07-06-2010, 05:42 PM

I think when this whole thing blew up several months ago I said it would never fly because Arizona was usurping the Federal authority to control immigration. Seems the Justice Department sees it the same way.

John

The DOJ is playing politics.

From what I've read, Missouri has had the same law in place for five years. Why isn't the DOJ suing Missouri?

Because there's a good chance they'll drive Missouri firmly into the Red column. Arizona is already there, so it doesn't matter.

Politics as usual. And if you look at the polls on illegal immigration, the Obama administration is picking the wrong fight at the wrong time.

And while it's become only a side note, why in the hell isn't the Obama administration controlling the borders? Isn't that their job?

Chas

Charles

07-06-2010, 05:44 PM

give him some time, he's not as quick as some of those dueling banjo guys

Maybe he needs to quit hanging out at the down low club!!!

Chas

noonereal

07-06-2010, 05:51 PM

Maybe he needs to quit hanging out at the down low club!!!

Chas

could be worse, he could have fallen in with the right guys

Charles

07-06-2010, 05:58 PM

could be worse, he could have fallen in with the right guys

Guess he has enough sense to stay out of public toilets!!!

Chas

Boreas

07-06-2010, 06:01 PM

The DOJ is playing politics.

I'm shocked! Shocked to learn that there's politics going on here!

From what I've read, Missouri has had the same law in place for five years. Why isn't the DOJ suing Missouri?

It might be that the Missouri statute is crafted somewhat differently and isn't subject to the same sort of Constitutional challenge. It also might be that it's similar enough that if the AZ atatute is struck down that it will set a precedent that can be used to get rid of Missouri's.

Because there's a good chance they'll drive Missouri firmly into the Red column. Arizona is already there, so it doesn't matter.

As long as Missouri produces Democrats like the Carnahans, to say nothing of Truman, and keeps producing Republicans like Ol' "Let the Eagle Soar" Ashcroft there will always be a home for Dems there.

Politics as usual. And if you look at the polls on illegal immigration, the Obama administration is picking the wrong fight at the wrong time.

I don't disagree with you entirely but they have a sworn responsibility to protect the Constitution from encroachment by the states. They really have no viable option.

And while it's become only a side note, why in the hell isn't the Obama administration controlling the borders? Isn't that their job?

Chas

What makes you think they're not?

John

Charles

07-06-2010, 06:14 PM

If Missouri were to cede St Louis to Illinois we would have a pretty decent state.

And for what it's worth, I don't mention Truman and Carnahan in the same breath.

Harry was all right.

Chas

Boreas

07-06-2010, 06:37 PM

If Missouri were to cede St Louis to Illinois we would have a pretty decent state.

And for what it's worth, I don't mention Truman and Carnahan in the same breath.

Harry was all right.

Chas

And anyone who can win an election after he's dead is alright in my book too.

John

djv8ga

07-06-2010, 07:29 PM

We should get a pool up and running on this one. This bill was written very carefully...trust me. Who will hold the money?

djv8ga

07-06-2010, 07:34 PM

What makes you think they're not?

John
If you roll on down here, I will show you FIRST HAND that the feds don't give a damn! WTF makes you think they are?

Boreas

07-06-2010, 08:13 PM

If you roll on down here, I will show you FIRST HAND that the feds don't give a damn! WTF makes you think they are?

I can roll down to the border here in CA if I really want to but I'm really without a frame of reference. All I'd be able to tell is that there is still a problem. I couldn't tell whether it was better or worse than it has been in the recent past. Crime statistics, on the other hand, would lead one to believe that things are improving.

John

djv8ga

07-06-2010, 08:40 PM

I can roll down to the border here in CA if I really want to but I'm really without a frame of reference. All I'd be able to tell is that there is still a problem. I couldn't tell whether it was better or worse than it has been in the recent past. Crime statistics, on the other hand, would lead one to believe that things are improving.

John
OK...you don't know what you're talking about. We aren't talking about Cali's little border...remember? I can take you out on a little shooting/camping weekend and SHOW YOU! Bring your favorite rifle and join me and me friends on a little camping trip. You will have TONS of fun as well as get an education. Make no mistake, IT'S NOT BETTER!

Boreas

07-06-2010, 08:57 PM

OK...you don't know what you're talking about. We aren't talking about Cali's little border...remember? I can take you out on a little shooting/camping weekend and SHOW YOU! Bring your favorite rifle and join me and me friends on a little camping trip. You will have TONS of fun as well as get an education. Make no mistake, IT'S NOT BETTER!

Gee, that sounds like fun! So, what's the bag limit on Mexicans? Any minimum size? What's the best rifle/ammunition?

John

BlueStreak

07-07-2010, 01:13 AM

Harry was all right.

Chas

Harry was a tough bird.

Boreas

07-07-2010, 01:21 AM

Harry was a tough bird.

Tough? I'll give you tough! Mel Carnahan beat John Ashcroft for the US Senate from Missouri in 2000......... after he was dead!

John

BlueStreak

07-07-2010, 01:45 AM

If you roll on down here, I will show you FIRST HAND that the feds don't give a damn! WTF makes you think they are?

They're not. The Feds have never given a damn. When I lived in San Diego in the early eighties the place was awash with illegal Mexicans, nearly thirty years ago.

I don't think they ever will do much, other than continue to fight any states attempt to close their borders.

Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution gives the Federal Government no expressed authority to close the borders. The closest it comes is giving the congress (Federal Government) the authority to "Raise the militia" to "repel invasion".
But, what constitutes "invasion"? (A) Illegal immigration, or (B) An armed attack sanctioned and supported by a foreign government?
I would bet it's choice (B).

I don't know what to tell you, DJ. I know you've got a mess over there, but I don't see that the Feds will ever do much about it, regardless of who Arizona (Or anybody else for that matter.) votes for.

Dave

BlueStreak

07-07-2010, 01:47 AM

Tough? I'll give you tough! Mel Carnahan beat John Ashcroft for the US Senate from Missouri in 2000......... after he was dead!

John

I suppose if dead people can vote, they can win elections as well.

Dave

Charles

07-07-2010, 08:32 AM

Tough? I'll give you tough! Mel Carnahan beat John Ashcroft for the US Senate from Missouri in 2000......... after he was dead!

John

Actually, it was the vidder.

Ashcroft suspended his campaign after the airplane wreck (dumb asses should have known better to take off for a fundraiser in a storm). Wilson (acting Governor) said he would appoint the vidder to St. Mel's seat should he win. They they kept the polls open in St. Louis so people could keep voting after hours.

Ashcroft conceded as opposed to filing a lawsuit, unlike some Democrats I could mention.

Then, when Ashcroft was nominated for Attorney General, the vidder voted against him.

Real class act, them Carnahans. Of course, the vidder wasn't around for very long.

Of course Talent wasn't around for very long either. Looking like the pasty faced Nazi in "Raiders of the Lost Ark" didn't help him any, and the fact that McKaskill could defeat him showed just to what a degree 2008 was the Democrat's year.

I don't think she'll be around for very long either. And if I were Robin, I wouldn't give up my day job.

Unless they keep the polls open in St Louis again.

Chas

Zeke

07-07-2010, 08:36 AM

WTF makes you think they are?

Because we're not going to let the tail wag the dog over an issue we are unable to control, anyway: unless you're willing to make our borders a militarized zone. :rolleyes:

That's much better.

Boreas

07-07-2010, 08:56 AM

Actually, it was the vidder.

Don't think so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Carnahan#2000_Senate_election_and_death), Chas.

John

Charles

07-07-2010, 09:11 AM

Don't think so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Carnahan#2000_Senate_election_and_death), Chas.

John

What did I get wrong?

Chas

Boreas

07-07-2010, 09:25 AM

What did I get wrong?

Chas

Nothing, really. I was just pulling your chain. By law, Mel's name had to stay on the ballot so people were technically voting for him. Officially he won but everyone who voted for Mel knew they were voting for Jean. (I guess. As SC just proved, voters can be really stupid.)

John

hillbilly

07-07-2010, 09:26 AM

Because we're not going to let the tail wag the dog over an issue we are unable to control, anyway: unless you're willing to make our borders a militarized zone. :rolleyes:

That's much better.

First, who's '' we're ''?

And we may as well. Just think about it. Our government has no problems with telling the rest of the world what they can or cannot do AND ENFORCING IT .... so why the hell let mexkin's do any fuckin' thing they wanna on OUR GROUND. :mad:

Charles

07-07-2010, 09:45 AM

Nothing, really. I was just pulling your chain. By law, Mel's name had to stay on the ballot so people were technically voting for him. Officially he won but everyone who voted for Mel knew they were voting for Jean. (I guess. As SC just proved, voters can be really stupid.)

John

Setting me up, huh?

You prick!!!

I didn't have a problem with the vidder running on St. Mel's ticket, but I did have a problem with this:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_26_17/ai_76698286/

Maybe a partisan hack job, maybe not. Nothing ever came of it, as far as I know.

Chas

PS: Like I said before, if Missouri were to cede St. Louis to Illinois we'd have a pretty decent state.

finnbow

07-07-2010, 09:51 AM

PS: Like I said before, if Missouri were to cede St. Louis to Illinois we'd have a pretty decent state.

...and the collective IQ of both states would go up.

Zeke

07-07-2010, 10:18 AM

First, who's '' we're ''?

The Feds.

And we may as well. Just think about it. Our government has no problems with telling the rest of the world what they can or cannot do AND ENFORCING IT .... so why the hell let mexkin's do any fuckin' thing they wanna on OUR GROUND. :mad:

Because we NEED the labour and the cure is worse than the disease. :rolleyes:

Where did your family immigrate from?

finnbow

07-07-2010, 10:29 AM

This whole thing should provide some interesting political drama. I have some mixed feelings on the matter. I don't like xenophobic responses to complex problems, but then again, the problems (as well as some of the benefits) of illegal immigration in Arizona are undeniable.

I guess the folks in AZ will need to get used to meatloaf and fried chicken instead of chimichangas and burritos.

d-ray657

07-07-2010, 10:31 AM

Officially he won but everyone who voted for Mel knew they were voting for Jean.

John

That is a huge assumption. I'm sure many voted knowing that Jean would be appointed, but you can't assume everyone knows the news. Of course, there are many of us who would vote for a yellow dog before we would vote for a republican. I dead man is just as good.

Regards,

D-Ray

merrylander

07-07-2010, 11:11 AM

The Feds.

Because we NEED the labour and the cure is worse than the disease. :rolleyes:

Where did your family immigrate from?

Not the whole family, just me - legally, guess that was pretty stupid, right?:rolleyes:

Need the labour? Funny thing they have pretty much replaced union labour in the housing area but I don't see the price of the houses coming down.

Zeke

07-07-2010, 11:21 AM

Not the whole family, just me - legally, guess that was pretty stupid, right?:rolleyes:

That's for you to decide.

Need the labour? Funny thing they have pretty much replaced union labour in the housing area but I don't see the price of the houses coming down.

That's labour's fault?

hillbilly

07-07-2010, 11:34 AM

The Feds.

Because we NEED the labour and the cure is worse than the disease. :rolleyes:

Like the ' local ' farmers say here. '' I don't need 'em and I wouldn't ask fer 'em if I did need 'em ''. In case your wondering. A shitload of mexicans came to our county in the 80's, but for some reason, most of them didn't stay. Guess they got hungry or somethin'.

Where did your family immigrate from?

Indians being here first is something I ( and everyone else here ) am/are aware of. Yes, they got a shitty damn deal ... I AGREE. And I respect the fact that the Indians at least had the balls to try to stop us from moving in on them.

What I cannot respect is Americans that want to see AZ get it's ass kicked.

Charles

07-07-2010, 11:35 AM

That is a huge assumption. I'm sure many voted knowing that Jean would be appointed, but you can't assume everyone knows the news. Of course, there are many of us who would vote for a yellow dog before we would vote for a republican. I dead man is just as good.

Regards,

D-Ray

Come on Don, the Donks had a huge "I'm Still for Mel" campaign going while Ashcroft had suspended his.

And that doesn't bother me, but leaving the polls open in St. Louis does.

Chas

Charles

07-07-2010, 11:38 AM

...and the collective IQ of both states would go up.

That's what they say about giving Southern Missouri to Arkansas.

No doubt St. Louis isn't going to Illinois...the crooks in Chicago don't want the competition!!!

Chas

Charles

07-07-2010, 11:43 AM

The Indians did it all wrong.

They spent too much on bows and arrows and not enough on sending their kids to law school.

We'd still be slugging it out in court had they done so.

Chas

Zeke

07-07-2010, 11:53 AM

We'd still be slugging it out in court had they done so.

You still are, but the deck is stacked: which is yet another reason why Arizona was foolish to take on the Feds.

merrylander

07-07-2010, 11:55 AM

That's for you to decide.

That's labour's fault?

No. just the usual screwing by corporate America.

Twodogs

07-08-2010, 05:31 PM

The DOJ is playing politics.

From what I've read, Missouri has had the same law in place for five years. Why isn't the DOJ suing Missouri?

Chas

or the sanctuary cities? If you look at the lawsuit, those cities are way out of line too, as pointed out to Gibbs yesterday. I lived in Tempe AZ for a little over a year once while the Missus was getting her Master of Theatre degree at ASU. Stinkin illegals at every corner. The same work I was making 40 bucks an hour for at the time in KC paid 13 there. But they're assholes for wanting to enforce federal imigration law.:p People wonder why this country's going to hell in a bucket.:rolleyes:

Charles

07-08-2010, 05:58 PM

or the sanctuary cities? If you look at the lawsuit, those cities are way out of line too, as pointed out to Gibbs yesterday. I lived in Tempe AZ for a little over a year once while the Missus was getting her Master of Theatre degree at ASU. Stinkin illegals at every corner. The same work I was making 40 bucks an hour for at the time in KC paid 13 there. But they're assholes for wanting to enforce federal imigration law.:p People wonder why this country's going to hell in a bucket.:rolleyes:

They do drive wages down.

Funny thing is, the US and Canada are prosperous nations, but once you go south of the Rio Grande, it's one big shithole all of the way to the Straights of Magellan.

Anyone care to elaborate on why that is?

Chas

Twodogs

07-08-2010, 06:53 PM

I dunno, the last time I was across the border it smelled more like piss than shit.:D

Boreas

07-08-2010, 07:33 PM

They do drive wages down.

Funny thing is, the US and Canada are prosperous nations, but once you go south of the Rio Grande, it's one big shithole all of the way to the Straights of Magellan.

Anyone care to elaborate on why that is?

Chas

First, would you care to elaborate as to what makes each one of those countries a shithole? Been to all of them, have you? Formed first-hand educated opinions about each and every one? This must be the case. Otherwise, I'm certain you wouldn't make such a statement.

John

finnbow

07-08-2010, 07:43 PM

Funny thing is, the US and Canada are prosperous nations, but once you go south of the Rio Grande, it's one big shithole all of the way to the Straights of Magellan.

Actually, southern Mexico is quite nice as are a number of places in central America, particularly Costa Rica. Ecuador is very interesting, as is Peru, Chile and Argentina. Granted there are plenty of shitholes, but we have a few ourselves. I'll take Buenos Aires or San José, Costa Rica over Detroit, Oakland, or St. Louis any day of the week.

Zeke

07-08-2010, 10:09 PM

The same work I was making 40 bucks an hour for at the time in KC paid 13 there.

That would seem to be capitalism at work, not due to immigration: legal or otherwise. :rolleyes:

Charles

07-08-2010, 10:54 PM

First, would you care to elaborate as to what makes each one of those countries a shithole? Been to all of them, have you? Formed first-hand educated opinions about each and every one? This must be the case. Otherwise, I'm certain you wouldn't make such a statement.

John

I'm a bigot.

Chas

BlueStreak

07-09-2010, 12:17 AM

That would seem to be capitalism at work, not due to immigration: legal or otherwise. :rolleyes:

Right, that's the free market at work. You would think a Republican would celebrate the fact that businesses in Tempe are getting off cheap?
Hooray!!! Low wages and disposable workers makes for a favorable business atmosphere! Yee haw! Woot, woot!!!!:rolleyes:

Hey, maybe Arizona could ship some illegals to KC and get rid of those damn $40 an hour electricians and make KC more business friendly? AWESOME!!!! Yee haw!!!! Low wages in KC, Boys!!!! Kick them damned expensive white boys out and get some nice low wage nonunion wetback labor going on! Woot! Woot! That's free market capitalism, baby! The Great American way!!::rolleyes:

Hey TD, I hear McDonalds is hiring!:p

Dave

Grumpy

07-09-2010, 06:33 AM

Zeke

07-09-2010, 08:21 AM

Kick them damned expensive white boys out and get some nice low wage nonunion wetback labor going on!

What's that I smell?

Sniff... Sniff... [Head tilt, thinking...]

Is it racism? :rolleyes:

Or, maybe, just fear...

Or, maybe, just sarcasm? :)

d-ray657

07-09-2010, 08:28 AM

What's that I smell?

Sniff... Sniff... [Head tilt, thinking...]

Is it racism? :rolleyes:

Or, maybe, just fear...

Or, maybe, just sarcasm? :)

I think it was a paraphrase of the position taken by the corporate masters.

Regards,

D-Ray

Zeke

07-09-2010, 09:41 AM

I think it was a paraphrase of the position taken by the corporate masters.

Regards,

D-Ray

Which I took as liberal sarcasm. :D

BlueStreak

07-09-2010, 10:04 AM

What's that I smell?

Sniff... Sniff... [Head tilt, thinking...]

Is it racism? :rolleyes:

Or, maybe, just fear...

Or, maybe, just sarcasm? :)

Sarcasm.:)

Dave

BlueStreak

07-09-2010, 10:09 AM

I had to leave Arizona long ago. Got tired of getting paid in Sunshine.

Every time I went to my boss, over ther period of four years, he told me the same thing. You want a raise ?. get the fuck outta here !, jose will do your job for half your pay..

Isn't this what we've all been hearing for the last, oh thirty years or so? Really, a bit longer than that, but it seemed to pick up a lot of steam when His High Exalted Holiness fired the PATCO workers, didn't it?

Stand by, there's more to come................

Dave