Homeless love the US

[noonereal]

Does the US love them?

(I stole this from over at AK.)



http://news.yahoo.com/video/austinkvue-tv-15750583/homeless-man-rescues-american-flag-during-storm-20738426

The dear former mayor of new york had these folks removed from Manhattan and sent to a "camp" 50 miles north of the city. Swell guy that hero of 911.

[Boreas]

Bad link, Noone.

John

[noonereal]

try again it worked for me
http://news.yahoo.com/video/austinkvue-tv-15750583/homeless-man-rescues-american-flag-during-storm-20738426

let me know

[Charles]

Mike Royko claimed there wasn't a homeless problem until the do gooders tore down all of the flops.

He had a point.

And by the way Noon, how would you like to have some of them set up a hobo camp on your front lawn?

Chas

[Boreas]

try again it worked for me
http://news.yahoo.com/video/austinkvue-tv-15750583/homeless-man-rescues-american-flag-during-storm-20738426

let me know

Works now. Before I was getting a "404" from Yahoo.

John

[noonereal]

Mike Royko claimed there wasn't a homeless problem until the do gooders tore down all of the flops.

He had a point.

And by the way Noon, how would you like to have some of them set up a hobo camp on your front lawn?

Chas

Well when I had a small store in the Bronx I let a homeless guy in every night before I locked up. He slept in the basement.
But your question suggests that the homeless are predatory, I never found that.

[Boreas]

Touching story, Noone. Thanks for posting it. Seeing that guy folding our flag brought back memories. I had 2 jobs in the Army. I was a chauffeur at the Pentagon and before that a member of the US Army Honor Guard. Military funerals, including folding and presenting the flag, was a part of my duties.

John

[finnbow]

Touching story, Noone. Thanks for posting it. Seeing that guy folding our flag brought back memories. I had 2 jobs in the Army. I was a chauffeur at the Pentagon and before that a member of the US Army Honor Guard. Military funerals, including folding and presenting the flag, was a part of my duties.

John

And to think now you're a Commie Pinko.:D

BTW, my mom and dad are buried at Arlington Nat'l.

[Charles]

Well when I had a small store in the Bronx I let a homeless guy in every night before I locked up. He slept in the basement.
But your question suggests that the homeless are predatory, I never found that.

I must admit, you're a better man than me.

Chas

[Boreas]

Mike Royko claimed there wasn't a homeless problem until the do gooders tore down all of the flops.

He had a point.

And by the way Noon, how would you like to have some of them set up a hobo camp on your front lawn?

Chas

There was a homeless camp really near here. It consisted of 4 or 5 sites along a creek. The de facto mayor, "Hobo Rick", had been there for around 4 years, even getting written up in the paper a while back. Rick kept an eye on things. Basically, you couldn't move in unless he approved of you. As a result, there were never any problems.

A couple of weeks ago the city posted a notice that they had designated the area a "camp site", illegal under city law. Everyone had to be out by a certain date and any possessions found there after that date would be removed and disposed of.

The permanent residents have all gone, taking their few belongings with them. Now we have transients moving through, sleeping rough on the ground and leaving litter and garbage behind them. Somehow I don't see this as an improvement.

John

[Charles]

One can always set up a nonprofit.

http://www.content.hud.gov/offices/cpd/homeless/programs/esg/

Chas

[noonereal]

I must admit, you're a better man than me.

Chas

I don't think so. I think you have certain stereotypes in your head that make you think you would react different than you really would.
When confronted up close with poverty and hopelessness I'd bet you'd step right up. Most folks would.

Let me ask you this, if you wife's cousin's son neede a place to live by circumstance (say family sickness) would you take him in?
Of course you would.
A stranger is scary, until he's not a stranger.

[Boreas]

One can always set up a nonprofit.

http://www.content.hud.gov/offices/cpd/homeless/programs/esg/

Chas

But Chas, that's a gummint program!

John

[Charles]

I don't think so. I think you have certain stereotypes in your head that make you think you would react different than you really would.
When confronted up close with poverty and hopelessness I'd bet you'd step right up. Most folks would.

Let me ask you this, if you wife's cousin's son neede a place to live by circumstance (say family sickness) would you take him in?
Of course you would.
A stranger is scary, until he's not a stranger.

Well, we did take in my wife's brother's son for two years when we could afford it the least. She was in school and only worked two days a week while I held a 40 hr job and did remodeling every evening and weekend.

I was also approached to renovate an old house into a homeless shelter here in Bugtussell. Now this one I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

We don't have a homeless problem in Bugtussell, and the best way I can think to start one is to create a homeless shelter here.

If my name would have wound up being attached to that notion I would have been tared, feathered, and ridden out of town on a rail.

BTW, the homeless shelter wasn't about the homeless, it was about someone who wanted Government funding to pay themselves to be the administrator.

The Salvation Army has one about 25 miles away in the State Capitol. They make you stay sober and off drugs, get you up every morning, and require that you go to work or school every day. My favorite charity, by the way.

There are resources available for the homeless.

Chas

[Charles]

But Chas, that's a gummint program!

John

No kidding!!!! See post #14 on this thread.

As I've said before, the poor are a commodity. A lot of people do very well administering them peanuts.

Chas

[Fast_Eddie]

Irony: making it illegal to be homeless. We can round them up as "gang members" and put the white ones in jail 10 times longer than the black ones.

We could have saved a lot of effort on the health care issue by outlawing sickness. Make it a capitol offense. Then anyone who gets cancer can be dealt with in accordance with the common good.

[noonereal]

Well, we did take in my wife's brother's son for two years when we could afford it the least. She was in school and only worked two days a week while I held a 40 hr job and did remodeling every evening and weekend.

I knew it, I absolutely knew it.;)


BTW, the homeless shelter wasn't about the homeless, it was about someone who wanted Government funding to pay themselves to be the administrator.

That's generally the case, nothing new.

The Salvation Army has one about 25 miles away in the State Capitol. They make you stay sober and off drugs, get you up every morning, and require that you go to work or school every day.

Attaching strings like that is not being very charitable. I know I stand alone on this.

There are resources available for the homeless.



Yes there are but most do not allow the homeless to maintain their dignity.

[Fast_Eddie]

Yes there are but most do not allow the homeless to maintain their dignity.

How to deal with homeless folks is a really sticky issue.

On one hand, imagine a world where you were given decent shelter, three square meals, maybe a TV and a bed at night for no charge. Would some number of able-bodied people rather live in this condition than work? Sure they would. Yes, you and I would pay their way. Not a big deal to me, but a legitimate gripe, I suppose, for some. It’s a free country and I shouldn’t be forced to pay for someone else. Fair enough.

But on the other hand, what if I don’t want to work? What if I want to “live off the land”? It’s a free country, right? What if I chose to be a homeless, drug addicted, alcoholic? How can you make it illegal for me to live however I like? What if I *want* to build a shack in a park. Shouldn’t a fee society allow for that? We pay for a place for kids to play baseball. We pay for a place for families to ride their bikes. Here in Denver I run on a running trail around a park in my neighborhood that is just outstanding. We all pay to provide resources for those choices. But if I chose not to work and live as best I can without money, there is no where in our society to do it.

And what about freedom of speech? Isn’t it my right to ask anyone for anything I may feel like asking them for? I hate it when bums ask me for money, but if you support my right to speak out against political issues I disagree with, don’t you have to support their right to ask?

We have a pretty decent sized Mormon population here in Denver. As part of their tradition, the young men walk or ride around on bicycles asking you if you’d like to talk about God. They’ll sometimes come to your neighborhood and ring your door bell. I don’t really care to have them ask me if I’ve accepted Christ as my personal savior, but it’s a free country. If we make it illegal to ask for a quarter, don’t we have to make it illegal to ask me about God?

If I’m dressed for work and chose to walk to the office, I may get hot and tired along the way. If I chose to stop on the corner and lean against the lamp post for a while I am quite sure we would all agree that is my right. I may chose to exercise my right to free speech while I’m there. I may tell someone I disagree with the political views they express on a T shirt for instance. But some cities have made it illegal for a homeless person to do the same. Standing on a corner exercising their right to free speech.

Denver is absolutely riddled with homeless folks and I can tell you, it can be a nuisance. I lived in San Francisco for a while in a dang expensive rental flat. About once a week I’d have to step over a homeless guy sleeping in the stoop on my way out the door in the morning. Both cities have a lot of homeless folks because they are tolerant of them. So I see both sides of it and I don’t pretend to have the answer. But kicking them all out of your city doesn’t feel right to me. If we want to stand up and defend freedom, we have to defend everyone’s freedom. Yeah, I pay taxes to maintain my city and they do not. But I don’t think the Constitution guarantees freedom for those who pay. I think it guarantees freedom for everyone.

Damn I’m wordy lately.

Take care,


Ed

[Charles]

We have a little town six miles away from Bugtussell where you can rent a trailer for $20 and a promise to pay the rest. And there's employment too, if you don't mind stealing lawn mowers or cooking meth.

I always wanted to open up a degenerate trailer park there and call it "Pair-a-Dice Estates". Figured I could let people live there for free and make my money out of a little 7-11 selling cheap liquor, porno mags, and small caliber handgun ammunition.

But I was afraid they'd elect me mayor.

Chas

PS: I was joking about the mayor part.

[noonereal]

How to deal with homeless folks is a really sticky issue.

On one hand, imagine a world where you were given decent shelter, three square meals, maybe a TV and a bed at night for no charge. Would some number of able-bodied people rather live in this condition than work? Sure they would. Yes, you and I would pay their way. Not a big deal to me, but a legitimate gripe, I suppose, for some. It’s a free country and I shouldn’t be forced to pay for someone else. Fair enough.

But on the other hand, what if I don’t want to work? What if I want to “live off the land”? It’s a free country, right? What if I chose to be a homeless, drug addicted, alcoholic? How can you make it illegal for me to live however I like? What if I *want* to build a shack in a park. Shouldn’t a fee society allow for that? We pay for a place for kids to play baseball. We pay for a place for families to ride their bikes. Here in Denver I run on a running trail around a park in my neighborhood that is just outstanding. We all pay to provide resources for those choices. But if I chose not to work and live as best I can without money, there is no where in our society to do it.

And what about freedom of speech? Isn’t it my right to ask anyone for anything I may feel like asking them for? I hate it when bums ask me for money, but if you support my right to speak out against political issues I disagree with, don’t you have to support their right to ask?

We have a pretty decent sized Mormon population here in Denver. As part of their tradition, the young men walk or ride around on bicycles asking you if you’d like to talk about God. They’ll sometimes come to your neighborhood and ring your door bell. I don’t really care to have them ask me if I’ve accepted Christ as my personal savior, but it’s a free country. If we make it illegal to ask for a quarter, don’t we have to make it illegal to ask me about God?

If I’m dressed for work and chose to walk to the office, I may get hot and tired along the way. If I chose to stop on the corner and lean against the lamp post for a while I am quite sure we would all agree that is my right. I may chose to exercise my right to free speech while I’m there. I may tell someone I disagree with the political views they express on a T shirt for instance. But some cities have made it illegal for a homeless person to do the same. Standing on a corner exercising their right to free speech.

Denver is absolutely riddled with homeless folks and I can tell you, it can be a nuisance. I lived in San Francisco for a while in a dang expensive rental flat. About once a week I’d have to step over a homeless guy sleeping in the stoop on my way out the door in the morning. Both cities have a lot of homeless folks because they are tolerant of them. So I see both sides of it and I don’t pretend to have the answer. But kicking them all out of your city doesn’t feel right to me. If we want to stand up and defend freedom, we have to defend everyone’s freedom. Yeah, I pay taxes to maintain my city and they do not. But I don’t think the Constitution guarantees freedom for those who pay. I think it guarantees freedom for everyone.

Damn I’m wordy lately.

Take care,


Ed

excllent post, you made some of my points

[BlueStreak]

Homeless people can be a nuisance around here, too. We have quite a few of them. The thing I've learned is never give them money. I had a couple roll up to me on bicycles with bags of clothes hanging off of the bikes. The guy truly seemed to hate to ask me, but he did ask for money. He said they were "broke and hungry, I'd be happy if you could just give me enough to feed my wife.", and that they'd been out of work for over a year. I said, "How about I buy each of you a meal from that Burger King over there instead of cash. "Man, that would be great, thank you so much." So that's what I did, and they were very appreciative of that.

Sometime later a man asked me for money, saying he was "starving". I made the same offer. He said; "Can't you just give me money?"
"If you're hungry, I'll give you some food, but that's it."
"F**k that", he says and walks away.

I don't mind feeding someone who is honestly struggling and hungry, but I refuse to feed anyones drug or alcohol habits.

Dave

[noonereal]

Homeless people can be a nuisance around here

I have never found them a nuisance and I moved past them daily for decades.


The thing I've learned is never give them money.

that's ashame


I had a couple roll up to me on bicycles with bags of clothes hanging off of the bikes. The guy truly seemed to hate to ask me, but he did ask for money. He said they were "broke and hungry, I'd be happy if you could just give me enough to feed my wife.", and that they'd been out of work for over a year. I said, "How about I buy each of you a meal from that Burger King over there instead of cash. "Man, that would be great, thank you so much." So that's what I did, and they were very appreciative of that.

I know if I needed to ask for money and you did this I would likely stay hungry.

Sometime later a man asked me for money, saying he was "starving". I made the same offer. He said; "Can't you just give me money?"
"If you're hungry, I'll give you some food, but that's it."
"F**k that", he says and walks away.

I would say the same thing.

I don't mind feeding someone who is honestly struggling and hungry, but I refuse to feed anyones drug or alcohol habits.



I certainly understand the sentiment and I applaud that however many of the homeless are more desperate for drugs than food. Personally if I were to donate money and were concerned about what it were used for I would donate it to a food pantry.
If someone asks you for money I figure I ought to give it to them or not rather than further erode their self worth.
I give money to everybody that I pass who is homeless, the amount is dictated by what's in my pocket. I have bought food as well but only when asked directly for food as in your example above.
The most gratifying time was once when I gave (what appeared to be a crack whore) $20. She reached right into my car (I was stopped at a light in Newark) and gave me a hug and kiss on the cheek. That money did not go for food but it was "needed" far worse than food.

[merrylander]

What is most disturbing is the number of homeless veterans.

[noonereal]

excellent point

(as always)

[piece-itpete]

.. And there's employment too, if you don't mind stealing lawn mowers or cooking meth.....

ROTFLMAO!!!!! Chas for mayor!!

Homeless people can be a nuisance around here, too. We have quite a few of them. The thing I've learned is never give them money. I had a couple roll up to me on bicycles with bags of clothes hanging off of the bikes. The guy truly seemed to hate to ask me, but he did ask for money. He said they were "broke and hungry, I'd be happy if you could just give me enough to feed my wife.", and that they'd been out of work for over a year. I said, "How about I buy each of you a meal from that Burger King over there instead of cash. "Man, that would be great, thank you so much." So that's what I did, and they were very appreciative of that.

Sometime later a man asked me for money, saying he was "starving". I made the same offer. He said; "Can't you just give me money?"
"If you're hungry, I'll give you some food, but that's it."
"F**k that", he says and walks away.

I don't mind feeding someone who is honestly struggling and hungry, but I refuse to feed anyones drug or alcohol habits.

Dave

A few years back around Christmas, when I was still on the road for work, I pulled out of McDonalds and saw a guy with a 'will work for food' sign. I stopped and offered him my lunch. He said, 'no thanks, I just ate' :rolleyes:

Looking at him more closely, his Nikes undoubtably cost more than my wingtips did.

I've given bums money before, it's a judgement call. Some are/can be violent though.

Pete

[Zeke]

What is most disturbing is the number of homeless veterans.

The obvious question, is "why?" :confused:

[BlueStreak]

What is most disturbing is the number of homeless veterans.

It's usually because of psychological disorders picked up from being exposed to the horrors of war. In my family we learned the hard way that some of wars deepest wounds are invisible. My brother couldn't stand 4th of July fireworks for many years after Vietnam. And NO, it wasn't because he "hates America"...........................

Dave

[Zeke]

And it's usually because of mental disorders picked up from being exposed to the horrors of war.

Dave

And were these frontline guys, I'd buy that.

But, in general, the guy screaming most for his veteran benefits spent a peacetime tour, typing... :rolleyes:

[BlueStreak]

And were these frontline guys, I'd buy that.

But, in general, the guy screaming most for his veteran benefits spent a peacetime tour, typing... :rolleyes:

......and probably votes Republican.

Dave

[finnbow]

......and probably votes Republican.

Dave

... and crows about the necessity/wisdom of huge defense budgets and overseas military adventures.

[piece-itpete]

Well he sure wouldn't vote for a ferrin muslim terr'ist! lol

Pete

[Boreas]

And were these frontline guys, I'd buy that.

But, in general, the guy screaming most for his veteran benefits spent a peacetime tour, typing... :rolleyes:

Really? That's quite surprising. Can you direct me to the statistical research on that?

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak
......and probably votes Republican.

... and crows about the necessity/wisdom of huge defense budgets and overseas military adventures.

Those would be the people who never actually served, particularly those who gut 5 deferments.

John

[Boreas]

Well he sure wouldn't vote for a ferrin muslim terr'ist! lol

Pete

I did.

John

[piece-itpete]

Why do you hate America John?

:D

Pete

[noonereal]

Really? That's quite surprising. Can you direct me to the statistical research on that?

John

I don't think Zeke meant the post literal, I believe it was just his cynical charm.:)

[noonereal]

Why do you hate America John?

:D

Pete


why else, he must be a lazy government dependent druggie.

Probably doesn't even live in a trailer. :D

[piece-itpete]

Lol!

Pete