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Boreas
09-14-2010, 12:59 PM
Seems the Stimulus is actually reducing (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-13/budget-deficit-in-u-s-narrows-13-to-90-5-billion-on-rising-tax-receipts.html) the deficit. Who'd a thunk it!?!

John

d-ray657
09-14-2010, 07:55 PM
Seems the Stimulus is actually reducing (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-13/budget-deficit-in-u-s-narrows-13-to-90-5-billion-on-rising-tax-receipts.html) the deficit. Who'd a thunk it!?!

John

Ah, what does Bloomberg know about finance and economics.:rolleyes: The report by economists that I posted here earlier, showed a much higher deficit without the stimulus than has occurred with it. Obviously, there's not as much of a recovery as any of us want, I doubt that we could have expected much more - particularly with the limited ability to go full force with a stimulus plan.

Regards,

D-Ray

whell
09-14-2010, 08:04 PM
Did I miss somewhere in the posted article where the author attributed the marginal lowering of the deficit to the Stimulus?

If nothing else, we know that the Stimulus did teach some folks how to clean up after sex. I'm sure that they were feeling stimulated, anyway! :D

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/75198

d-ray657
09-14-2010, 08:12 PM
Did I miss somewhere in the posted article where the author attributed the marginal lowering of the deficit to the Stimulus?

If nothing else, we know that the Stimulus did teach some folks how to clean up after sex. I'm sure that they were feeling stimulated, anyway! :D

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/75198

The economic recovery has helped generate more tax revenue for the Treasury, even as the Congressional Budget Office forecasts the deficit this fiscal year will reach $1.34 trillion, the second-largest on record. The Obama administration faces the challenge of trying to limit the shortfall while stimulating an economy with joblessness close to 10 percent.

It is certainly a reasonable inference that the stimulus has aided the recovery.

If nothing else, we know that the Stimulus did teach some folks how to clean up after sex. I'm sure that they were feeling stimulated, anyway! :D

You mean the stimulus program provided a grant to a program attempting to find ways to prevent the spread of aids? It's all in the delivery.

Regards,

D-Ray

whell
09-14-2010, 08:15 PM
Sure. But wasn't the purpose of the stimulus to put federal dollars to work of advancing economic opportunities for U.S. workers?

d-ray657
09-14-2010, 08:21 PM
Sure. But wasn't the purpose of the stimulus to put federal dollars to work of advancing economic opportunities for U.S. workers?

Do you expect that the money was not used to hire research assistants and other workers in the course of the research?

Regards,

D-Ray

whell
09-14-2010, 08:30 PM
I don't know. It appears the study was conducted via the University of California. Typically, current faculty and students conduct such research.

whell
09-14-2010, 08:32 PM
It is certainly a reasonable inference that the stimulus has aided the recovery.

The sentence in the quote - "The Obama administration faces the challenge of trying to limit the shortfall while stimulating an economy with joblessness close to 10 percent" - looks future tense to me. If it was a reference to the success of the stimulus, I'd think it would be written in past tense. But, you could be right.

merrylander
09-15-2010, 07:05 AM
The latest reports are that the deficit will be lower than forecast because tax revenues are up. ALso, in Ruth Marcus' OpEd today she quotes recent studies that indicate the small business (<500 employees) are about par with big business (>500 employees) in job creation.

Dr.No won't vote for a bill to stimulate small business on one hand, yet wants tax cuts left as is because raising them will discourage small business - white man speak with forked tongue.

whell
09-15-2010, 08:22 AM
The latest reports are that the deficit will be lower than forecast because tax revenues are up. ALso, in Ruth Marcus' OpEd today she quotes recent studies that indicate the small business (<500 employees) are abour par with big business (>500 employees) in job creation.

I hope that's true, but I'm sure not seeing it. Could be that I service clients in the Midwest, and primarily in MI, where the economy still lags and where - at least the clients I work with - are still stifled by lack of available credit financing.

BlueStreak
09-15-2010, 09:49 AM
I hope that's true, but I'm sure not seeing it. Could be that I service clients in the Midwest, and primarily in MI, where the economy still lags and where - at least the clients I work with - are still stifled by lack of available credit financing.

Why are so many business folks always living on heavy debt? Always scraping by on someone elses dime? Or begging for bailouts? Or both? Bitching and whining about how everyone on the planet is responsible for their business suffering----well, everyone but them, of course. You'd think someone like that would have better personal responsibility and learn to be more self-reliant--damn Republicans.

Dave

whell
09-15-2010, 11:33 AM
Why are so many business folks always living on heavy debt? Always scraping by on someone elses dime? Or begging for bailouts? Or both? Bitching and whining about how everyone on the planet is responsible for their business suffering----well, everyone but them, of course. You'd think someone like that would have better personal responsibility and learn to be more self-reliant--damn Republicans.

Dave

Dave -

I suspect some of the above is tongue in cheek, but:

Its not an issue of "heavy debt". Business owners use credit as a business tool to support cash flow. Instead of tying up their cash assets, they use debt to finance expansion, replace equipment, even fund payroll if they need a bridge to get over some accounts receivable issues (slow payment is almost a way of life these days, unfortunately).

Most businesses have / had a line of credit with their banks to provide easy access to credit funding when needed. Many banks have been forced to change their underwriting terms, in some cases whether they wanted to or not. Many of the clients that I've spoken with have had their lines of credit restricted or shut off. Therefore, they have to change the way they do business to accommodate this new reality.

BlueStreak
09-15-2010, 11:43 AM
The entire post was tongue-in-cheek.

On a slightly more serious note; Maybe it's good that some of them have had their lines of credit restricted or shut off? After all, risky loans going to people who fail to repay is what caused this whole mess in the first place, isn't it?

Dave

BlueStreak
09-15-2010, 11:46 AM
Instead of tying up their cash assets, they use debt to finance expansion, replace equipment, even fund payroll if they need a bridge to get over some accounts receivable issues (slow payment is almost a way of life these days, unfortunately).



Precisely. A "bridge loan". Kind of like a mini-bailout, right?

Dave

whell
09-15-2010, 11:50 AM
Bailout = saddle the tax payers if the bailee (Bail Outee? As opposed to an Inee?) fails to pay.

Line of credit = short term financing from a bank.

Yeah, they're the same in a different kind of way.

whell
09-15-2010, 11:52 AM
The entire post was tongue-in-cheek.

On a slightly more serious note; Maybe it's good that some of them have had their lines of credit restricted or shut off? After all, risky loans going to people who fail to repay is what caused this whole mess in the first place, isn't it?

Dave

Risky loans were generally in the housing market, not business loans. Separate from the housing mess, I think the banks were generally satisfied with their relationships and underwriting requirements for most of their business clients. And that book of business for banks has been generally quite lucrative.

BlueStreak
09-15-2010, 12:10 PM
Okay, Dude. I enjoyed todays bantor. But, now I must go "grease the wheels of capitalism" with my proletarian blood.:)

Have a great day!

Dave

merrylander
09-15-2010, 01:19 PM
Some years back Florence had her own Temp/Placement agency with some 80 employees. With the placement side you would be surprised at the names of some of the big corporations that tried to cheat her out of the finders fee.

So all of the business bashing has some basis in reality.

noonereal
09-15-2010, 01:43 PM
Some years back Florence had her own Temp/Placement acency with some 80 employees. With the placement side you would be surprised at the names of some of the big corporations that tried to cheat her out of the finders fee.

So all of the business bashing has some basis in reality.

big business = big thieves

piece-itpete
09-16-2010, 09:15 AM
Gotta love temps - when you're done with them you just toss'em in the dumpster :)

So, we spent 800 billion to lower the deficit how much?

Heard this morning that foreclosures hit a record.

Pete

merrylander
09-16-2010, 10:01 AM
Gotta love temps - when you're done with them you just toss'em in the dumpster :)

So, we spent 800 billion to lower the deficit how much?

Heard this morning that foreclosures hit a record.

Pete

Not really, so you don't get all the bennies, you do get $$$ BTDT.:D

We spent it to avoid running over the cliff like a bunch of lemmings.

Of course they hit a record, because bankers are by and large witless. They would rather have a house stand empty, pay for grounds upkeep, risk property destruction, etc. than come to an arrangement with the former tenants.

noonereal
09-16-2010, 11:00 AM
The governments approach to the mortgage crisis was ass backwards.

Everyone victimized by the sud prime mortgages should have had their home refinanced by the government. This would have not only saved the banks but also the little guy. Instead look at what has happened. The little guy is homeless and the bank is paying dividends as high as ever and still at the roulette table.

The handling of the sub prime mess was a terrible mistake.

d-ray657
09-16-2010, 02:23 PM
Gotta love temps - when you're done with them you just toss'em in the dumpster :)

So, we spent 800 billion to lower the deficit how much?

Heard this morning that foreclosures hit a record.

Pete

Come on Pete, you're in business. You know you have to spend money to make money. Balancing the books is a function of both revenue and expenses. The report I linked to a few weeks ago indicated that the deficit would have been half again higher this year if the stimulus package and Tarp had not been enacted. That would have resulted from even lower revenue than has been collected in the past 18 mos. As the report in this thread indicates, revenues are increasing, thus the deficit is smaller than this point last year. Of course that doesn't mean that we are back yet, but that we would have had higher unemployment, greater demands on the unemployment system, greater deficits by the states (and less money for the corporations to hoard:mad:).

Regards,

D-Ray

piece-itpete
09-16-2010, 02:25 PM
I do realize it isn't neccessarily a zero sum game. Just pointing out it's a little early in the game to call it.

And unemployment is above 8%.

Anyone have any savings? Quit hoarding!

Pete

merrylander
09-16-2010, 02:46 PM
I do realize it isn't neccessarily a zero sum game. Just pointing out it's a little early in the game to call it.

And unemployment is above 8%.

Anyone have any savings? Quit hoarding!

Pete

Let's see, $7500 for a new roof, $8000 for new patio doors, $2000 to get a new floor and railings on the deck, and $500 for the front sidewalk, not to mention what it cost to get the kitties fixed. So what have you done?

BlueStreak
09-17-2010, 01:26 AM
I gave the Swiss economy a little boost on tuesday.

Dave

piece-itpete
09-17-2010, 08:44 AM
Rob, I stimulated the heck out of everything, back when my house was worth something :(

Now I've only stimulated car parts suppliers ;)

Pete