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Twodogs
07-10-2009, 05:44 PM
111111

noonereal
07-10-2009, 06:15 PM
I am of the opinion that had Obama not taken the steps he did to rescue the world economy and we entered a global depression there is a good chance a class war would have broken out in the US.

JJIII
07-10-2009, 07:26 PM
I am of the opinion that had Obama not taken the steps he did to rescue the world economy and we entered a global depression there is a good chance a class war would have broken out in the US.

I must be out of touch with reality. I don't understand at all how he rescued the world economy. ???

noonereal
07-10-2009, 07:47 PM
I must be out of touch with reality. I don't understand at all how he rescued the world economy. ???

he used your tax dollars so you should be aware ;)

Grumpy
07-10-2009, 08:19 PM
I am of the opinion that had Obama not taken the steps he did to rescue the world economy and we entered a global depression there is a good chance a class war would have broken out in the US.


Visit the metro Detroit area. These wars broke out when the city was left behind years ago.

noonereal
07-11-2009, 06:10 AM
I think this site should be renamed the "bitch and moan anti Obama forum."

noonereal
07-11-2009, 06:11 AM
Visit the metro Detroit area. These wars broke out when the city was left behind years ago.


Aren't you making my point?

Charles
07-11-2009, 09:31 AM
Obama hasn't done anything that our politicians haven't been doing for the last 100 yrs, which is transfer the wealth of the United States into the hands of the globalists. The only thing different is the AMOUNT of wealth that he, and the rest of our political leaders, have transferred.

A strong argument can be made that he hasn't prevented class warfare, but has hastened its arrival.

Now lets suppose that instead of "loaning" all of these trillions to the central bankers, that they would have divided the amount by the population of the United States, and "loaned" an equal amount to every citizen of the USA.

Talk about happy days are here again!!! Everybody could have paid off their overpriced mortgages, bought a new Suburban, all kinds of Chinese junk, hired a gardener, the sky's the limit. It would have been an inflationary move, but it is anyway.

This would have done more to stimulate the global economy than "loaning" it to the central bankers, who have paid a few bribes, stuck the rest in their hip pockets, and raised the interest rates on my credit cards.

I, for one, have no intention of borrowing, or spending, money at this time. If I do decide to borrow money, it won't be to buy a new car, or hire a couple of more carpenters and building a few houses, or to do anything which will benefit the economy. If I were to borrow now, it would be with the intention of stealing it, and hoping that I could leave a paper trail which would prevent me from being charged with fraud. That's the way the big boys do it.


Just a few random thoughts,

Chas

Grumpy
07-11-2009, 10:05 AM
I think this site should be renamed the "bitch and moan anti Obama forum."


I can understand why you say this but its a bit premature. You may not believe this but I hope some of his stuff works. Problem is I don't have anymore faith in him then the last or the last or the last..

merrylander
07-11-2009, 12:20 PM
People forget the (alleged) checks and balances of our form of government, any President with the best intentions in the world really gets no where without congress going along. As has been noted we have the best Congress money can buy and K street bought the lot of them years ago.

OvenMaster
07-11-2009, 02:20 PM
This reminds me of a little story from during the Bush administration.

High schoolers were asked what they thought of a law that would permit freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of the press. One third basically said "No way".

When told that was the first Amendment to the Constitution, they thought it went too far.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2005/Future-First-Amendment31jan05.htm

Charles
07-11-2009, 11:45 PM
People forget the (alleged) checks and balances of our form of government, any President with the best intentions in the world really gets no where without congress going along. As has been noted we have the best Congress money can buy and K street bought the lot of them years ago.

Point well taken.

Chas

merrylander
07-12-2009, 07:19 AM
I just ordered a book called Dangerous Games all about how people misuse history to achieve political ends. Written by Margaret MacMillan, ought to be interesting. The reviewer noted that she quoted Susan Jacoby about a story Ms. Jacoby recounted. Seems she was in a bar in New York the night of Sept. 11/ 2001 and overheard two men talking;
First mand "This is just like Pearl Harbor"
Second man "What is Pearl Harbor"
First man "That's when the Vietnamese dropped bombs in the harbor and started the Vietnam war"

I kid you not, is the teaching of history so abysmal as all that? No wonder that the pols can lead people around like sheep.

Sandy G
07-12-2009, 08:07 AM
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it..."

wajobu
07-12-2009, 09:06 AM
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it..." George Bush should have remembered that before he invaded Iraq under false pretenses. He didn't even listen to his father's advice and counsel...the reason that G. H. W. Bush didn't go to Baghdad during Desert Storm.

Anyway, I was holding my breath during the last 8 years on the topic of the OP. I understand that now the balance has changed and similar consequences could occur, but for different reasons.

I see one of the biggest problems facing a stable economy and Union is the breakdown in our healthcare system--it's broken. The Global Financial Crisis isn't helping this.

noonereal
07-12-2009, 04:03 PM
The reviewer noted that she quoted Susan Jacoby about a story Ms. Jacoby recounted. Seems she was in a bar in New York the night of Sept. 1/ 2001 and overheard two men talking;
First mand "This is just like Pearl Harbor"
Second man "What is Pearl Harbor"
First man "That's when the Vietnamese dropped bombs in the harbor and started the Vietnam war"

.

Clearly a conversation between two neocons. :D

Kamakiri
07-15-2009, 06:27 AM
From what I hear as rumor, there are already underground militias forming in some states that plan to take their small towns in the event that the economy gets to the point of apocalyptic. Nothing that I can substantiate, but it all makes perfect sense to me.

I for one am thoroughly convinced that by the year 2011, there will be little left of things as we know it today. Maybe it's just my own microcosm, based on the things that I'm seeing, who knows. The ironic thing is that I picture myself 40 years from now, a wizened old man, looking upon the world in a reverie of the way things in the world had changed in my lifetime, and looking at the young people, full of ideals and a new prosperity, thinking that the hard lessons that I learned growing up about the way things might be once again are now simply lost in a dusty history textbook, reduced to the facts and a few old photographs.....the lessons learned now gone.

Kind of how someone many years my senior, would look on things today.

merrylander
07-15-2009, 07:23 AM
Inspite of the LaPierres and the NRA I do not see any sort of public uprising happening any time soon. There is a great deal of talk but a distinct shortage of cojones.

What is most likely to happen is a very different lifestyle emerging. American consumerism is no longer sustainable, having credit card debt that exceeds one's yearly income will not happen again. As a result, the people whose livlihood depended on us buying, buying, buying are going to be out of luck. This is more likly to cause unrest in China and India than here.

Those of us who insisted on paying their card(s) in full each month are not too likely to see much of a change in lifestyle, barring runaway inflation. The value of our properties will stabilize but not reach the inflated number of recent days - but are still worth more than we put into them.

We have an oversupply of stores and sadly some will close and people will lose their jobs. Perhaps the vacant buildings can be put to some practical use or simply be torn down and the land left to grass.

It was a hell of a ride while it lasted but y'all knew it could not last.

Charles
07-15-2009, 09:01 PM
Well, the US has been down before. I'm just curious as to how long the politicians can continue to kick this particular Keynesian can down the road before the music stops.

I'd say you can count on inflation.

Chas

merrylander
07-16-2009, 07:08 AM
As long as it is not excessive inflation, my pension is indexed.

Brett A
07-18-2009, 02:11 PM
i think a revolution would be more likely to happen if a smaller and smaller percentage of the population were to acquire a larger and larger share of the resources. The have-nots would reach a breaking point at some time and revolt. (The Draft Riots are a relevant example)

This has been an accelerated trend through the Clinton and Bush eras.

If a government endeavors to take money from the wealthy and give it to the poor, i think the only way a revolution could happen is if the rich hired the unemployed to fight it for them.

So I actually think Obama's influence lessens the likelihood.

cabinover
07-18-2009, 07:52 PM
What difference does it make, we're all fucked. There is a certain percentage of working folks. The rich won't ever pay more taxes than they have to, regardless of the rate levied on them. They will pay folks to find loopholes.

The poor don't pay much in taxes.

So...that leaves the middle class, whether upper, lower, or dead in the middle wherever that is. When I pay more taxes than I take home I'm going to sign up for the welfare.

And when the money starts coming in I'm gonna be busy working for cash on the side and redoing my house. Let's see where the money is going to come from then.

Our country is in the toilet and we aren't coming out of this smelling like roses. It's OK though since we have the Chief Messiah in Charge who'll pay my mortgage.

Where do I sign up?

noonereal
07-18-2009, 08:04 PM
When I pay more taxes than I take home I'm going to sign up for the welfare.





Do you know how much a welfare recipient receives a month?

painter
07-18-2009, 08:34 PM
Do you know how much a welfare recipient receives a month?


Guess it depends on the amount of kids. There are agencies to provide extras...school breakfasts, free lunches, summer lunch programs, childcare, christmas presents, health care, paid utilities, food stamps....
Welfare was never meant to be a lifestyle. There are those who really worked at making it work for them and still others use it as a lifestyle gleaned from a couple generations. All too sadly with the economy and lost jobs...I feel we will soon see the numbers rise.
OH...one more thing...when you hear about the jobless rate going down...it's because those on unemployment have exhausted their benefits.

cabinover
07-19-2009, 05:23 AM
Do you know how much a welfare recipient receives a month?

I can honestly say no I don't. Having said that I'm sure I could make up the difference when I no longer have to pay for health insurance, or some of my food. Just a little cash sidework wrenching on cars, mowing lawns, becoming the local steel man.

I guess I could get used to staying up until midnight if I didn't have a job to be at by 6:30AM every morning.

Oh yeah, I could go fishing more often. I have acquaintenances that do just that. Both very capable of working, hell the guy built my garage! Won't hold a job though since it interrupts fishing and all. His wife used to work with me for the same company. She all of a sudden has multiple personalities the same as her husband. It's OK though, all of them like fishing as well.:rolleyes:

noonereal
07-19-2009, 06:07 AM
I can honestly say no I don't. Having said that I'm sure I could make up the difference when I no longer have to pay for health insurance, or some of my food. Just a little cash sidework wrenching on cars, mowing lawns, becoming the local steel man.

I guess I could get used to staying up until midnight if I didn't have a job to be at by 6:30AM every morning.

Oh yeah, I could go fishing more often. I have acquaintenances that do just that. Both very capable of working, hell the guy built my garage! Won't hold a job though since it interrupts fishing and all. His wife used to work with me for the same company. She all of a sudden has multiple personalities the same as her husband. It's OK though, all of them like fishing as well.:rolleyes:

About $400 a month. You will get used to nothing on that.
As to your acquaintances, you claim he is milking the system and you hire him illegally to build your garage?:confused:
What's wrong with this picture?

noonereal
07-19-2009, 12:00 PM
Read the above posts dude. It's 400 +++++++++.

Check this out http://pumabydesign001.wordpress.com/2009/05/08/obama%E2%80%99s-welfare-state-given-free-cars/

If you care to and can live on $400 a month be my guest.

No one is on welfare because they are "getting over."

This is a silly stereotype.

As to the free car story, it makes more sense than letting the police confiscate cars and then put them to personal use.

JJIII
07-19-2009, 01:00 PM
he used your tax dollars so you should be aware ;)

It doesn't appear to me that the world ecomomy has been rescued. :(

noonereal
07-19-2009, 01:14 PM
It doesn't appear to me that the world ecomomy has been rescued. :(

has their been a global depression?

You know why?

JJIII
07-19-2009, 02:37 PM
has their been a global depression?

You know why?

You tell me.

noonereal
07-19-2009, 07:03 PM
Where do you live, in a church basement or something. The world is full of people getting over on welfare. The mamma don't work, the daddybaby don't marry mamma. Mamma don't tell that she knows who the daddybaby is (if in fact she does), so he can't be held responsible. She sits home watching Oprah and Springer while he hangs out on the corner doing whatever with his pants around his ankles. Drive around any major city during the day and count them. They ain't workin nightshift my man. Hang out in a grocery store at the first of the month and see how much steak is bought with food stamps. Then there's the WIC program which also gives a nice incentive to crank out da babies. You absolutely can not believe the quoted statement above, and if you do, there's nothing I can say about it.

Lived most my life in major US cities and I am very familiar with the disadvantages the poor cope with. I can honestly say I have been exposed to the "real" underbelly of society.

The stereotype you elude to is fiction.

Wics provides very basic food to young children. To say that Wics, " gives a nice incentive to crank out da babies" is inaccurate. A dozen extra eggs does not cover the cost of a child.

noonereal
07-19-2009, 07:06 PM
You tell me.

It was a rhetorical question.

Charles
07-19-2009, 07:30 PM
Lived most my life in major US cities and I am very familiar with the disadvantages the poor cope with. I can honestly say I have been exposed to the "real" underbelly of society.

The stereotype you elude to is fiction.

Wics provides very basic food to young children. To say that Wics, " gives a nice incentive to crank out da babies" is inaccurate. A dozen extra eggs does not cover the cost of a child.

Well, we're not dealing with the sharpest implements in the rack. And after a while, once they become dependent on a Government check, dependency is all they know.

Now I'm not in favor of leaving the poor starving in the streets, but there has to be a better way.

No doubt, things are different down here in Bugtussell than they are in NYC. You can be pretty poor and still live pretty good in Missouri.

Case in point. One of my wife's sisters was drawing food through some gov't program. She would take what she didn't want to her folks (net worth 6-800K with good retirements), they would pick through it, and give us the leftovers. We would pick through it, and I'd take the rest of it out to my buddies, a couple of whom are bonafide millionaires...which is a lot of money in central Missouri. They really went nuts when I showed up with a bunch of Ben & Jerry's ice cream...they'd never see it before.

Another time I walked out my door, the renters across the street said, "Mister, Mister, you want some of this food?" Gave me app 40 lbs of ham and 100 lbs of potatoes...gave it to my crew. They had more than they knew what to do with.

Like my mentor told me years ago,"You can't starve to death in America, unless you've got pride."

Chas

noonereal
07-19-2009, 07:40 PM
Now I'm not in favor of leaving the poor starving in the streets, but there has to be a better way.



I agree that
"there has to be a better way."
I also agree that once they "become dependent on a Government check, dependency is all they know."

What we need to do is establish a way for the poor to help themselves that leeds to independence.

Charles
07-19-2009, 07:57 PM
I agree that
"there has to be a better way."
I also agree that once they "become dependent on a Government check, dependency is all they know."

What we need to do is establish a way for the poor to help themselves that leeds to independence.

Thank you, Sir.

The devil is in the details...ain't no easy solution.

Chas

JJIII
07-20-2009, 05:49 AM
It was a rhetorical question.

As in ? :)

rhetorical
adjective 1. oratorical, verbal, linguistic, stylistic
adjective 2. high-flown, flamboyant, windy, flashy, pompous, pretentious, flowery, showy, florid, bombastic, hyperbolic, verbose, oratorical, grandiloquent, high-sounding, declamatory, arty-farty (informal) silver-tongued, magniloquent
Collins Essential Thesaurus 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2005, 2006

cabinover
07-20-2009, 06:30 AM
About $400 a month. You will get used to nothing on that.
As to your acquaintances, you claim he is milking the system and you hire him illegally to build your garage?:confused:
What's wrong with this picture?

Let me address your issues one at a time. I didn't hire him. He needed a car and I had one. He needed a framing gun and I had one of those as well. It's called barter. We both walked away happy without paying taxes on our barter, win for everyone except the government.

I guess I'd be guilty of milking the system in your eyes since I had exchanged goods without paying taxes right?

And I don't believe the $400.00 a month amount. Want to know why? This acquaintance and his wife bought a $90K+ house. There is no possible way that they could do this with only $400/month.

noonereal
07-20-2009, 06:40 AM
JJIII

"A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question posed for its persuasive effect without the expectation of a reply"


In other words reflect on why the world economy did not decay into a global depression and you will have your answer.

I am not sure what your post above is supposed to mean but if you were looking for a definition of rhetorical it is:
1 a: of, relating to, or concerned with rhetoric b: employed for rhetorical effect ; especially : asked merely for effect with no answer expected <a rhetorical question>
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

The definition for "Rhetorical question" I gave above was taken from Wikipedia.

noonereal
07-20-2009, 07:09 AM
Let me address your issues one at a time. I didn't hire him. He needed a car and I had one. He needed a framing gun and I had one of those as well. It's called barter. We both walked away happy without paying taxes on our barter, win for everyone except the government.

I guess I'd be guilty of milking the system in your eyes since I had exchanged goods without paying taxes right?

And I don't believe the $400.00 a month amount. Want to know why? This acquaintance and his wife bought a $90K+ house. There is no possible way that they could do this with only $400/month.

I don't pass judgment, not my job but I do find it hypocritical that you speak so disgustingly about your neighbor then do business with him. If the guy is breaking the law why are you enabling him? Honestly, seems you are both sides of the street on this one.

Some facts:

"The amount of AFDC benefits ranges from $923 per month in Alaska to $120 in Mississippi. The national average is $399 a month."
If you are content to live on this, I have no problem providing them through my tax monies.

Yes Alaska is the biggest pay out per person , a beacon for good old America values as per their Governor, your leader.
Again, hypocritical??? Just listen to one of her "independent Alaskan" speech's.



Stick to facts, not impressions and your views may change.



That being said it is imperative that we teach people to take care of themselves and welfare for healthy Americans should be used as a last resort.
The answer is not to throw people off the program but rather giving them an opportunity. Most people I have interacted with would take a $20 an hour job over welfare any day.

I can't speak to your neighbors house but I would suggest that sometimes things are not as cut and dry as they appear. maybe under someone else's name? Maybe it was bough with inheritance or directly inherited? Could be allot of things, legal and illegal.

JJIII
07-20-2009, 07:23 AM
Your rhetorical question did nothing to persuade me to believe that O's actions had anything to do with slowing or stopping a global depression. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

As for the definition of rhetorical, I too can Google. I posted what I did in my (according to my wife) endless practice of "smart-assery". I have always believed that a little humor thrown into a serious discussion helped to grease the skids. No disrespect intended. :)

noonereal
07-20-2009, 07:36 AM
Your rhetorical question did nothing to persuade me to believe that O's actions had anything to do with slowing or stopping a global depression. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

As for the definition of rhetorical, I too can Google. I posted what I did in my (according to my wife) endless practice of "smart-assery". I have always believed that a little humor thrown into a serious discussion helped to grease the skids. No disrespect intended. :)

Humor good, me stupid.

Yes we will need to disagree.

JJIII
07-20-2009, 09:07 AM
Stupid? I hardly think so.

cabinover
07-20-2009, 11:02 AM
I don't pass judgment, not my job but I do find it hypocritical that you speak so disgustingly about your neighbor then do business with him. If the guy is breaking the law why are you enabling him? Honestly, seems you are both sides of the street on this one.

Some facts:

"The amount of AFDC benefits ranges from $923 per month in Alaska to $120 in Mississippi. The national average is $399 a month."
If you are content to live on this, I have no problem providing them through my tax monies.

Yes Alaska is the biggest pay out per person , a beacon for good old America values as per their Governor, your leader.
Again, hypocritical??? Just listen to one of her "independent Alaskan" speech's.



Stick to facts, not impressions and your views may change.



That being said it is imperative that we teach people to take care of themselves and welfare for healthy Americans should be used as a last resort.
The answer is not to throw people off the program but rather giving them an opportunity. Most people I have interacted with would take a $20 an hour job over welfare any day.



I don't see myself on both sides of the street. I work for my money. I bartered with someone for their skills. I did not pay him. He had knowledge I did not. So in effect he taught me. I don't recall speaking disgustingly of him other than to say he is capable but won't become a producing member of society. How do you see it that I enabled him?

As for his house it was bought by them, under some special program, while she was working. Shortly afterwards she becomes "disabled". Hmmm....must be a coincidence. There was no other names used, no inheritance other than the "disability" of how to play the system. I know both sides of the family and neither are more than working folks.

Both of these folks cry rivers about money. Maybe they don't make as much as I do but I'll tell you what, I'm not going to feel bad for them. The gent could very well be. They made their bed.

Nice pull from Google on the 1996 AFDC numbers. I have a question. What are the numbers today? Vermont's is $902/month for a family of three. Also, being that these folks have labeled themselves disabled that also gives them SSI.

Hmmm...now we've got to be talking something reasonable to live on between food stamps, welfare, SSI, cheap mortgage interest rates, free (or nearly) health care with dental, WIC, the list keeps going.

How do we teach folks to take care of themselves when the government keeps telling them that they'll be taken care of, just sit back and wait for the check? I'm sure many would take a $20/hr. paycheck. The problem is they want to start on the top rather than take the time to get there. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

We agree that it's better to teach someone to fish than give them a fish, however they need to bring their own fishing pole and dig for the worms. At least we can agree on something. ;)

cabinover
07-20-2009, 11:04 AM
Sorry for the off-topic guys, feel free to give me crap about it.

noonereal
07-20-2009, 11:27 AM
How do we teach folks to take care of themselves when the government keeps telling them that they'll be taken care of, just sit back and wait for the check? I'm sure many would take a $20/hr. paycheck. The problem is they want to start on the top rather than take the time to get there. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.



Well at minimum wage you cannot take care of yourself. So what do we do?
Seems to me there should be an option at all Welfare offices for people to make a decent wage rather than take assistance.

As to your neighbor, sounds like they have a hard life, I begrudge them nothing. The idea that you lost your job you don't deserve your house I don't personally agree with.

This country is plenty rich enough to offer minimal food and shelter to all it's members.

cabinover
07-20-2009, 02:41 PM
I agree.

Grumpy
07-20-2009, 03:15 PM
That being said it is imperative that we teach people to take care of themselves and welfare for healthy Americans should be used as a last resort.
The answer is not to throw people off the program but rather giving them an opportunity. Most people I have interacted with would take a $20 an hour job over welfare any day.



I could not agree with you more on the point of teaching people to fend for themselves. The problem is so many do not want to. They are products of a corrupt system and only know how to milk it for all they can get. They neither wish to work nor earn their own way. Only to take. There needs to be incentives for those who will not do whats needed to earn a living and that incentive is being tossed out on their butts from the programs.

Offering unlimited assistance to everyone is not the answer. it only breeds laziness.

noonereal
07-20-2009, 03:41 PM
I could not agree with you more on the point of teaching people to fend for themselves. The problem is so many do not want to. They are products of a corrupt system and only know how to milk it for all they can get. They neither wish to work nor earn their own way. Only to take. There needs to be incentives for those who will not do whats needed to earn a living and that incentive is being tossed out on their butts from the programs.

Offering unlimited assistance to everyone is not the answer. it only breeds laziness.

Some of the laziest people I have ever met are among the richest.


I have never seen the correlation between "lazy and poor" or "industrious and rich."
What is distasteful demeaning work to one is rewarding to another.
Painting a room to me is torturous, making deals on the phone makes me wake early to prepare for. If I was I painter I might be considered a lazy bum.
I have found this correlation between enjoying work and industriousness or loathing a particular job and the slur, lazy to be consistent.
When people feel there is fair compensation then tend to produce well, poor compensation and they just don't care.
I really think we are all more alike than different.

merrylander
07-21-2009, 07:08 AM
I worked up until the age of 73, not really because I had to but because I enjoyed what I was doing. The small software company was a great place to ork, then it got bought up by a large semiconductor company - we used their ICs and their marketing folks thought they could sell more product if they practically gave away the software.

Well of course they had to re-make us in their corporate image and they pleasant atmosphere soon became much different. In the end work became WORK and all the fun went away so I retired. Why do large companies do this, they buy a successful smaller company and then screw it up beyond belief. You would think that they might study the successful company and see what they could learn to their advantage.

painter
07-21-2009, 10:23 AM
I don't pass judgment, not my job but I do find it hypocritical that you speak so disgustingly about your neighbor then do business with him. If the guy is breaking the law why are you enabling him? Honestly, seems you are both sides of the street on this one.

Some facts:

"The amount of AFDC benefits ranges from $923 per month in Alaska to $120 in Mississippi. The national average is $399 a month."
If you are content to live on this, I have no problem providing them through my tax monies.

Yes Alaska is the biggest pay out per person , a beacon for good old America values as per their Governor, your leader.
Again, hypocritical??? Just listen to one of her "independent Alaskan" speech's.



Stick to facts, not impressions and your views may change.



That being said it is imperative that we teach people to take care of themselves and welfare for healthy Americans should be used as a last resort.
The answer is not to throw people off the program but rather giving them an opportunity. Most people I have interacted with would take a $20 an hour job over welfare any day.

I can't speak to your neighbors house but I would suggest that sometimes things are not as cut and dry as they appear. maybe under someone else's name? Maybe it was bough with inheritance or directly inherited? Could be allot of things, legal and illegal.


http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/community/welfare/new_york.html :eek:

http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34439 NY STATE will soon follow California!

Grumpy
07-21-2009, 01:57 PM
http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/community/welfare/new_york.html :eek:

http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34439 NY STATE will soon follow California!


If whats in that post is true it does not surprise me as I have always considered NY to be a Cali wannabe..

merrylander
07-21-2009, 02:45 PM
Y'all realize this whole discussion is moot as even people who want to work can't find jobs.

merrylander
07-21-2009, 03:51 PM
Well until we manage full 100&#37; employment what are people to do? And you know damn well the Fed will never let full employment happen as that would drive up wages.

noonereal
07-21-2009, 04:21 PM
If whats in that post is true it does not surprise me as I have always considered NY to be a Cali wannabe..

NY is no wannabe anything.

Grumpy
07-21-2009, 04:23 PM
This brings up the point as to why is it the gooberments responsibility as to who works. I will admit there are exceptions such as retired folks and those that are disabled but if theres an able body whose sitting on their behinds when they could be working for a living then why is it our resposibility to enable this poor behavior.

Before noon tries to bust my balls for being morally irresponcible know that I am not advocating tossing everyone off welfare. Only those that wont work unless you cut off their free pass. Now I know your going to argue that how do I know they wont work and just are not able.

Let me tell you a little about where I come from. Born on the south side of chicago. Went to a public school were I was one of less then a handful of white kids. Some of my best friends were not white. I witnessed conversations first hand, directly in front of me where these people flat out refused to work cause someone else is willing to do that for them.

Well I work hard to support my family. Give nearly every extra dollar to support many of the programs my kids public school cut. I try to give to many different charity's several times a year. Why ? because I feel its the right thing to do.

I do NOT feel its the right thing to do when it comes to supporting entire inner cities who can but wont work. Am I generalizing ? Yes to some extent but not as much as you would think

Grumpy
07-21-2009, 04:24 PM
NY is no wannabe anything.


What about that stupid law they came up with about no trans fat. Why is it NY's job to say ?

noonereal
07-21-2009, 04:34 PM
http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/community/welfare/new_york.html :eek:

http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34439 NY STATE will soon follow California!

What bogus crap.

Assuming the numbers are not bogus (hard to believe given the other intent of the author), still few qualify for all the benefits.
2nd, I am the only sap that pays his own health care, take that out and it is only 18,907.
3rd who the hell do you know that earns $45,000 and after food, rent and home heating only has $2,856 cash a year for EVERYTHING ELSE?

The numbers are twisted, the analogy is convoluted and the purpose is divisive.

Thanks for the Crap link.

noonereal
07-21-2009, 04:39 PM
What about that stupid law they came up with about no trans fat. Why is it NY's job to say ?

So NY is a Cali wannabe because it enacted a long over do trans fat law?

OK you win.

:rolleyes: makes me wonder how you'd describe a progressive state like Louisiana then

noonereal
07-21-2009, 04:41 PM
Typical liberal denying facts and living in fantasy land. Just because you folks don't believe something, does not necessarily make it a lie. BTW, there ain't no tooth fairy neither.

how about a comeback with fact?

(and just once, don't refer to people with views other than your own with a generic stereotype)

Grumpy
07-21-2009, 07:06 PM
So NY is a Cali wannabe because it enacted a long over do trans fat law?

OK you win.

:rolleyes: makes me wonder how you'd describe a progressive state like Louisiana then


Depends. If were talking New Orleans then I would describe it as a town full of imbeciles who taunted Mother nature and lost. Never been down to the state in my life so I cant really comment much further.

Fast_Eddie
07-21-2009, 07:20 PM
Main Entry:
trea·son
Pronunciation:
\ˈtrē-zən\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English tresoun, from Anglo-French traisun, from Latin tradition-, traditio act of handing over, from tradere to hand over, betray — more at traitor
Date:
13th century
1 : the betrayal of a trust : treachery
2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

painter
07-22-2009, 11:43 AM
Lived most my life in major US cities and I am very familiar with the disadvantages the poor cope with. I can honestly say I have been exposed to the "real" underbelly of society.

The stereotype you elude to is fiction.

Wics provides very basic food to young children. To say that Wics, " gives a nice incentive to crank out da babies" is inaccurate. A dozen extra eggs does not cover the cost of a child.



Ever eat a lard sandwich? Mom and Pop were too proud for welfare. Those people had character. Families stuck together and helped one another. No government handouts for them. But thanks to conditions beyond their control NOW...MANY families will soon make the welfare lines. Have you heard about tent cities now being erected?

I think what most people are angry about are those on the dole who have been for years. Certainly there are circumstances where its needed...but only should be for a limited time making room for others who could fill the gap for the same amount of time. Thats progress. The bigger a program gets...the less efficient.

merrylander
07-22-2009, 01:15 PM
Not lard but dripping, the fat and jelly from around a pork roast. Bread and milk was also quite popular back in the dirty '30s. The best part was growing up in a small town where people looked after each other.

Fast_Eddie
07-22-2009, 01:45 PM
What about that stupid law they came up with about no trans fat. Why is it NY's job to say ?

Well, I probably agree with you on this. But it may be less clear cut than you make it out to be. Consider this:

The FDA regulats hundreds of food addatives. Many are regulated because they are known to cause disease. Trans-fats are linked to many diseases. So who's to say it shouldn't be regulated? Is that New York's job? Dunno. Flip side of the coin is - there are lot's of things that cause disease that aren't banned. So it's subjective. Those are the tough ones. Who draws the line- who makes the call. I don't know. But I do think it's worth considering as opposed to dismissing it out of hand. What on Earth do trans-fats contribute to anything other than making it less expensive for "food" producers to do business. How would you feel about a warning lable, like we have for cigarettes, on any food item with trans-fats?

painter
07-23-2009, 07:17 PM
How about we all enjoy freedom and take responsibility for our own actions? Just a thought.:)


Amen! :D

JJIII
07-24-2009, 05:47 AM
How about we all enjoy freedom and take responsibility for our own actions? Just a thought.:)

I'm for that!

merrylander
07-24-2009, 07:05 AM
Done that all my life, too old a dog to learn new tricks now.

chuckworkb
07-26-2009, 01:07 PM
Do you ever notice how lots of people "dance around" the subject of an American Revolution? It's like nobody would ever dare say we need to think about taking up arms against the government. It seems like it gets "alluded to" by some right wing talk show hosts, but never really discussed. I'm honestly thinking that Obama may be the one to get it going. I think about what's going to happen when this whole debt thing comes due. Will Americans today live in poverty type conditions, drive govt. cars, and be denied medical care because the Govt. says it's not worthwhile treating them without rising up? What "would" it take for the citizens to actually start firing their weapons. Maybe it will be (like a lot of gun owners say) when they come to get our guns? I don't think I'm the only one having these thoughts that's not a nut case. I'm about as average of a guy as you can find, and have trouble killing even when I'm hunting, or putting a wounded animal out of it's misery. So, how many Americans are thinking these things, and why won't anyone in the media talk about it?:confused:


Hmmm, I wonder what these black hellicopters are doing circling my house.:eek:


The Guns stores can't keep ammo on their shelves. When a gun store had a special on home protection shotguns, the line to get one was around the store. That's wasn't typical in the past.

I don't think a revolution is coming any time soon, but when more and more people can't feed their kids and keep roofs over their head, they sometimes lose it and resort to crime.

I think people are scared about a revolution, and rising crime, and want to protect themselves and their property.

The current economic situation certainly isn't good, but if it gets a lot worse, then I think the seeds of a revolution have a better chance of sprouting, and I think that is pretty scary.

Sandy G
07-26-2009, 03:06 PM
Well, almost evverbuddy's got a rusty trusty .38 pistol somewheres...I think they're 2nd only to .22LRs...I sure am glad I loaded up on .223,.308, & 7.62 X 39 Comecon when I did...

mpholland
07-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Guess I'm lucky to have .357 molds and access to lead, powder, brass and primers. I do still find it much easier to go to the store and buy ammo when available, plus it is a good way to get extra brass.

stereocuuple
08-10-2009, 03:46 PM
how about a comeback with fact?

(and just once, don't refer to people with views other than your own with a generic stereotype)

you are a dangerous fool hows that for a fact

noonereal
08-10-2009, 05:35 PM
you are a dangerous fool hows that for a fact

dangerous? naw

fool? might be

:rolleyes:

Charles
08-10-2009, 05:39 PM
dangerous? naw

fool? might be

:rolleyes:

"Just a good 'ol boy, never meanin' no harm"

Stickin' up for ya here, buddy.

But you'd still make someone one hell of a fine bitchy ex-wife!!!

Chas

noonereal
08-10-2009, 05:43 PM
it never bothers me when people call me a name


it tells me I made my point ;)

Charles
08-10-2009, 05:52 PM
it never bothers me when people call me a name


it tells me I made my point ;)

If people don't give me a good cussin' from time to time...I figger they don't love me no more.

Chas

Sandy G
08-10-2009, 06:27 PM
Boy, ain't THAT th' truth...We had this one ol' guy at work, whom EVERYONE loved to "Screw" with. One way we did was nobody would speak to him, just shoot him dirty looks...He'd get where he couldn't stand it, would come up to one of us-Me-usually, & go-"You mad at me, you sumbich ?!? & then flick at yr nuts, grinning all the time...

hillbilly
08-12-2009, 01:34 PM
The full lenth is also linked below ( for those who care ).

************************************************** ********

We have a lot planned for the 3-day March on Washington, and we are excited to work with you for the next month to ensure its success. We have worked hard all year to take a stand for liberty, and we have made an impact in the debates in Congress. But now we must come together in the spirit of previous marches on Washington, and unite for one day, in one place, to display our power as a movement. We have the potential to be the kind of historic movement that makes a long-lasting impact on our country. Namely, we the people have the power to stop the movement toward socialism taking place in our country. We have the power to stand up and defend our Constitution from the politicians and their political hacks and machines. And we have the power to defeat big government and its enablers, and save our country from those that wish to fundamentally alter it.

Ask yourself, what would Thomas Jefferson do in these times? What would Samuel Adams or Thomas Paine do? Please join us in working harder than ever the next month to focus on one event that will shock the nation, and make enough noise that our voices echo into the ages. Together, we can do this. See you in September.

http://912dc.org/2009/08/the-march-on-washington-update/

merrylander
08-12-2009, 02:12 PM
Remind me to stay home and lock the doors with that many nutcases running around the area.:D

No doubt there will be a bunch of seniors using Medicare crying out against gummint run health care.:rolleyes:

I need to add that you are all worrying for nothing. Congress has be bought out, lock, stock and barrel by the healthcare/pharama combine for $300,000,000, there will be no reform bill passed this year, nor next. Instead of change we will get the same old, same old greed, corruption and bribery. So sleep well my dears, God is in His Heaven and all is right with the world.:eek:

noonereal
08-12-2009, 05:02 PM
[QUOTE]No doubt there will be a bunch of seniors using Medicare crying out against gummint run health care.:rolleyes:

That is the part that is most distressing about the right wing scare machine.

I need to add that you are all worrying for nothing. Congress has be bought out, lock, stock and barrel by the healthcare/pharama combine for $300,000,000, there will be no reform bill passed this year, nor next. Instead of change we will get the same old, same old greed, corruption and bribery. So sleep well my dears, God is in His Heaven and all is right with the world.:eek:

I agree, there is to much money at stake to do the right thing.

Charles
08-12-2009, 05:36 PM
Health care reform is the symptom, and not the disease. The disease is that the politicians are no longer responsive to the desires of their constuiants. They are beholding to the big money men.

And should health care pass this year, it will be with the blessings of the money men, whose interests will be placed above all else.

I do enjoying seeing an unruly mob advance on Washington form time to time, it tends to remind our masters of just how small they really are. I only hope that they don't screw around and start another civil war. The average bear thought the last one would be over in 6 months.

I'm the status quo, I got money in the bank, I like my air squezzer!!! I really don't want to see my property put to the torch and my head on a fencepost. And that's the way they played the game in Missouri the last go around. I have a feeling that's the way the game will be played everywhere this time, we don't have a Mason Dixon line to separate the players.

I say everybody pop a top, wash down a happy pill, and look at how good you've got it. Even the poor in America have a couple of old beater cars, more teevee sets than they can shake a stick at, and so much to eat that they're too fat to get out of their Lazy Boys. And an air squezzer to boot.

Lets not kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

Chas

Bigerik
08-21-2009, 09:59 AM
Hey Rob.
Had a few too many opportunities to use the health care system up here recently, but I just wanted you to know that it is working just fine. If things really go down the toilet down there, we'll get you looked after just fine up here. :)

Independent
09-01-2009, 10:54 PM
The full lenth is also linked below ( for those who care ).

************************************************** ********

We have a lot planned for the 3-day March on Washington, and we are excited to work with you for the next month to ensure its success. We have worked hard all year to take a stand for liberty, and we have made an impact in the debates in Congress. But now we must come together in the spirit of previous marches on Washington, and unite for one day, in one place, to display our power as a movement. We have the potential to be the kind of historic movement that makes a long-lasting impact on our country. Namely, we the people have the power to stop the movement toward socialism taking place in our country. We have the power to stand up and defend our Constitution from the politicians and their political hacks and machines. And we have the power to defeat big government and its enablers, and save our country from those that wish to fundamentally alter it.

Ask yourself, what would Thomas Jefferson do in these times? What would Samuel Adams or Thomas Paine do? Please join us in working harder than ever the next month to focus on one event that will shock the nation, and make enough noise that our voices echo into the ages. Together, we can do this. See you in September.

http://912dc.org/2009/08/the-march-on-washington-update/

Freedom Works LOL!!!!
Freedom Works leaders are all working for the Medical & Pharmacy Industries!
Stupid republicans don't even know when they are being bamboozled into doing stupid stuff (the march on Washington) so they can keep the current multi-trillion dollar Health Care System in the business of robbing Americans, just so their CEOs/Executives can keep buying yachts, multi-million dollar homes, vacation homes, cars etc....
As Bugs Bunny would say, "what a bunch of maroons!" :D

noonereal
09-02-2009, 05:19 AM
Freedom Works LOL!!!!
Freedom Works leaders are all working for the Medical & Pharmacy Industries!
Stupid republicans don't even know when they are being bamboozled into doing stupid stuff (the march on Washington) so they can keep the current multi-trillion dollar Health Care System in the business of robbing Americans, just so their CEOs/Executives can keep buying yachts, multi-million dollar homes, vacation homes, cars etc....
As Bugs Bunny would say, "what a bunch of maroons!" :D


I hate when that happens.