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Charles
01-18-2011, 06:34 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110118/pl_nm/us_obama_regulations

Well, I'm going to take this at face value for the moment and commend President Obama for initiating a process which is long overdue.

But due to my suspicious nature, I will be watching to see what actually transpires.

Chas

JJIII
01-18-2011, 07:14 AM
The last paragraph may be a little bothersome....

"While vowing to eliminate rules that are "not worth the cost, or that are just plain dumb," the president said his administration wouldn't shy away from writing new rules to address obvious gaps in government oversight."

Charles
01-18-2011, 07:36 AM
The last paragraph may be a little bothersome....

"While vowing to eliminate rules that are "not worth the cost, or that are just plain dumb," the president said his administration wouldn't shy away from writing new rules to address obvious gaps in government oversight."

I say it's most likely political posturing, but I'll give him the benefit of doubt for the time being.

Chas

JJIII
01-18-2011, 07:56 AM
I say it's most likely political posturing, but I'll give him the benefit of doubt for the time being.

Chas

I expect you're right.

piece-itpete
01-18-2011, 08:29 AM
I too am skeptical, but I too will give him the benifit of the doubt.

Must... not... make... closing.... gap.... remark....

Grrrrgh.

Pete

merrylander
01-18-2011, 08:30 AM
Well some of the political objections to the recent food regs have been somewhat strange. It is calculated that we lose thousands of lives and billions of dollars because of food poisoning, but some asshole in congress says a cost analysis says spending the few million it will take to beef up the FDA is not worth it in terms of lives saved.

Charles
01-18-2011, 08:34 AM
I too am skeptical, but I too will give him the benifit of the doubt.

Must... not... make... closing.... gap.... remark....

Grrrrgh.

Pete

Pete, I do admire your restraint.

You trying to make a sell???

Chas

d-ray657
01-18-2011, 08:58 AM
Have you ever been in a building - like a church or a school - where a number of additions have been made over the years. Sometimes it takes a lot of maneuvering to just try to make the ends fit, and it shows sometimes in the paths you have to take to get through the buildings.

The same thing can happen with regulations. Different administrations wanted to place their touch on the regulations, leaving ill fitting and sometimes inconsistent regulations. I can see how the different ideas set out in the various regulations would make it as difficult to navigate them as a patched together building.

Regards,

D-Ray

merrylander
01-18-2011, 09:12 AM
Have you ever been in a building - like a church or a school - where a number of additions have been made over the years. Sometimes it takes a lot of maneuvering to just try to make the ends fit, and it shows sometimes in the paths you have to take to get through the buildings.

The same thing can happen with regulations. Different administrations wanted to place their touch on the regulations, leaving ill fitting and sometimes inconsistent regulations. I can see how the different ideas set out in the various regulations would make it as difficult to navigate them as a patched together building.

Regards,

D-Ray

I can remember a hotel in Brighton that was made up of several row house. They simply made doorways between the walls seperating the houses. What made it fun was that the row houses were on a hill, whoops!:D

piece-itpete
01-18-2011, 09:20 AM
Pete, I do admire your restraint.

You trying to make a sell???

Chas

I probably wouldn't need much restraint to sell - to the left :D

If you buy this, it'll be a CHANGE from what you had before! This version is untested, and the design is based on the original 1938 blueprints, but it's new and shiney!

And the best part? It's only a trillion dollars! (downpayment)

Rotflmao! Don't be offended.

Pete

Charles
01-18-2011, 09:27 AM
[QUOTE=piece-itpete;51657]I probably wouldn't need much restraint to sell - to the left :D

If you buy this, it'll be a CHANGE from what you had before! This version is untested, and the design is based on the original 1938 blueprints, but it's new and shiney!

And the best part? It's only a trillion dollars! (downpayment)

Rotflmao! Don't be offended.

Gimmie two, and put it on HIS tab!!!

Chas

finnbow
01-18-2011, 09:52 AM
I too am skeptical. Regulators of all stripes are steeped in the need for stronger regulation in their own fields (which is sometimes true, BTW). However, they have no capacity to understand the burdens of their regulations.

Chas - Are you familiar with OSHA's recently published rules for cranes/derricks in contruction (went into effect in November)? Rather than simply adopting the appropriate national consensus standards (that OSHA's enabling legislation pretty much directs them to do), they publish a several hundred page regulation to do what national consensus regulations do in 40-50 pages, not to mention all sorts of squirrelly language new to the industry.

I believe (somewhat) that Obama is sincere, but regulatory agencies will be fundamentally unwilling to say "this regulation we've had on the books for years costs more than it's worth." Won't happen.

merrylander
01-18-2011, 09:56 AM
I was reading more of the article on this "New Elite", one guys comment was "If Amrican middle class workers want ten times the salary of other workers they should produce ten time the output." He went on to say"If the way we do business raises four Chinese, or four Indians, to the middle class and one American drops out of the middle class, that's a pretty good trade."

What no one seems to realize is that these "New Elite" do not consider themseelves to be Americans, or Brits, or German, or Russian, they have loyalty to no country only to their $50 million a year incomes, or their four houses. Wall Street is back to paying the same obscene salaries as before the recession started.

You don't want your guns to use against the government, it is not the government that is screwing you.

Paul Allen of Microsoft fame has a 414 foot yacht equipped with two helicopters, a submarine and a swimming pool poor baby.

piece-itpete
01-18-2011, 10:07 AM
Gimmie two, and put it on HIS tab!!!

Chas

DONE!

And like a typical salesman, I got my facts wrong :)

Pete

finnbow
01-18-2011, 10:10 AM
Paul Allen of Microsoft fame has a 414 foot yacht equipped with two helicopters, a submarine and a swimming pool poor baby.

But at least his company makes such a wonderful product.:rolleyes:

Excuse me while I hit control-alt-delete.

merrylander
01-18-2011, 10:12 AM
Maybe it is time for a rerun of the French Revolution. Since they don't give a shit about me, to hell with them.

piece-itpete
01-18-2011, 10:22 AM
What was that song/dance the French children would sing during the Revolution? Brrr. The Chinese curse come to life.

http://www.dimbulb.net/.a/6a00d83454a03269e2013487f6f572970c-500wi

Pete

BlueStreak
01-18-2011, 11:09 AM
I say it's most likely political posturing, but I'll give him the benefit of doubt for the time being.

Chas

I say everything these days is political posturing. That's all our leaders do is pose and counter-pose. Meanwhile those of us at the bottom wonder how many meals we have left.:(

Dave

noonereal
01-18-2011, 11:10 AM
The last paragraph may be a little bothersome....

"While vowing to eliminate rules that are "not worth the cost, or that are just plain dumb," the president said his administration wouldn't shy away from writing new rules to address obvious gaps in government oversight."

I'd call it much needed.

BlueStreak
01-18-2011, 11:31 AM
I was reading more of the article on this "New Elite", one guys comment was "If Amrican middle class workers want ten times the salary of other workers they should produce ten time the output." He went on to say"If the way we do business raises four Chinese, or four Indians, to the middle class and one American drops out of the middle class, that's a pretty good trade."

What no one seems to realize is that these "New Elite" do not consider themseelves to be Americans, or Brits, or German, or Russian, they have loyalty to no country only to their $50 million a year incomes, or their four houses. Wall Street is back to paying the same obscene salaries as before the recession started.

You don't want your guns to use against the government, it is not the government that is screwing you.

Paul Allen of Microsoft fame has a 414 foot yacht equipped with two helicopters, a submarine and a swimming pool poor baby.

But, that's okay, Rob. You see, they pirated their booty, OH GEEZ, excuse me, "earned their money" through the free enterprise system. See, it doesn't matter when they stick up their middle fingers at America and her people. It's not their fault that we're all a bunch of lazy, undeserving, unemployed parasites. We brought that upon ourselves. No, the only time it's no good to get mad at America and tell your countrymen to go f**k themselves is AFTER they've made you unbelieveably rich, and you've told them they should be ashamed of themselves for not wanting to make you even richer. So, you go and make deals with Communists and third world dictators to cash in on what amounts to slave labor, and tell your countrymen that they will not get any more work until they agree to reduce themselves to being your low wage step-n-fetchits too.

This is how we build a much better future for our posterity, or a worse future for our posterior as the case may be.........

Dave

Charles
01-18-2011, 11:49 AM
I too am skeptical. Regulators of all stripes are steeped in the need for stronger regulation in their own fields (which is sometimes true, BTW). However, they have no capacity to understand the burdens of their regulations.

Chas - Are you familiar with OSHA's recently published rules for cranes/derricks in contruction (went into effect in November)? Rather than simply adopting the appropriate national consensus standards (that OSHA's enabling legislation pretty much directs them to do), they publish a several hundred page regulation to do what national consensus regulations do in 40-50 pages, not to mention all sorts of squirrelly language new to the industry.

I believe (somewhat) that Obama is sincere, but regulatory agencies will be fundamentally unwilling to say "this regulation we've had on the books for years costs more than it's worth." Won't happen.

No, I never deal with cranes, rarely a boom truck.

Chas

piece-itpete
01-18-2011, 12:07 PM
Overregulation results in tinpot dictators being able to say you didn't meet the regs, even though no one can understand them.

It's hard to argue that the creators of Microsoft didn't earn their money. I wonder how much it's contributed to the economy over the years?

Pete

d-ray657
01-18-2011, 12:39 PM
Overregulation results in tinpot dictators being able to say you didn't meet the regs, even though no one can understand them.

It's hard to argue that the creators of Microsoft didn't earn their money. I wonder how much it's contributed to the economy over the years?

Pete

Their success was made possible in large part by working within the United States economy and system of laws. Yet when their allegience has shifted away from their own country - when they don't care about the constitution that you hold dearly - do you still think protection of their billions should be one of our national priorities?

Regards,

D-Ray

BlueStreak
01-18-2011, 12:48 PM
They earned "some" of it, is the main point, Pete.
BTW, I am a fan of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Good guys, and I mean that.

What I am not a fan of is an ideology that seems to think you can't throw enough money at the Plutocracy while attemping to deprive the common man. That some how we at the bottom, or near it, are to blame for all of our countries ills---because of our "exorbitant wages and lavish benefits"-------to quote Rush Limbaugh.

I don't see that such a thing can lead to anything good for the vast majority of my people. This is the incremental move toward "slavery" that I see. There is no more a catalyst for exploitation than to keep the masses just hungry and desperate enough that they can't stop working no matter what they do. How are your plans for retirement coming along?

I like my wages and benefits as they are, thank you.

Dave

piece-itpete
01-18-2011, 12:49 PM
I buy stuff from China, heck everyone does.

I bet he sure pays a lot more taxes than I do.

Pete

piece-itpete
01-18-2011, 12:51 PM
For slaves, we've got a pretty good life.

Pete

merrylander
01-18-2011, 01:56 PM
I buy stuff from China, heck everyone does.

I bet he sure pays a lot more taxes than I do.

Pete

If you have an Apple iphone or ipad you are buying stuff from China because they are all made by Foxcomm. That is that nice Chinese company where the girls were throwing themselves off the roof because they could not stand the stress.

You would be surprised at the taxes they pay since they can afford all those high priced tax lawyers, The hedge fund managers pay at a 15% top rate a lot less than you do.:rolleyes:

d-ray657
01-18-2011, 02:45 PM
For slaves, we've got a pretty good life.

Pete

Do you see the life of the people around you getting worse or better? Do you think their prospects for getting a good job are good? When you look at Cleveland, does it look like a place that offers more and more people the opportunity to live a comfortable middle class lifestyle? How many signs do you see around for sales for foreclosed homes? Do you think the people forced our of their homes are feeling like it is a pretty good life? Do you think that employers, seeing that kind of desperation, are going to be offering valuable wage and benefit packages to people who just want to work? That's the point about slavery. The new global elite will have the type of docile work force they want when the standard of living here has dropped enough that the wage structure will more closely resemble the developing world.

Regards,

D-Ray

merrylander
01-18-2011, 03:01 PM
This is the point, those bastards do not give a faint damn what happens to anyone else, just as long as they get their next $30 million. Three guesses who it was that turned your 401k into a 201k?

Charles
01-18-2011, 03:19 PM
This is the point, those bastards do not give a faint damn what happens to anyone else, just as long as they get their next $30 million. Three guesses who it was that turned your 401k into a 201k?

The same people to whom we handed the keys to the Treasury because they were broke.

Am I getting close?

Chas

Charles
01-18-2011, 03:22 PM
Do you see the life of the people around you getting worse or better? Do you think their prospects for getting a good job are good? When you look at Cleveland, does it look like a place that offers more and more people the opportunity to live a comfortable middle class lifestyle? How many signs do you see around for sales for foreclosed homes? Do you think the people forced our of their homes are feeling like it is a pretty good life? Do you think that employers, seeing that kind of desperation, are going to be offering valuable wage and benefit packages to people who just want to work? That's the point about slavery. The new global elite will have the type of docile work force they want when the standard of living here has dropped enough that the wage structure will more closely resemble the developing world.

Regards,

D-Ray

Well, there goes your membership to the CFR.

Chas

d-ray657
01-18-2011, 03:26 PM
Well, there goes your membership to the CFR.

Chas

I was counting on your letter of recommendation.

Regards,

D-Ray

Charles
01-18-2011, 03:37 PM
I was counting on your letter of recommendation.

Regards,

D-Ray

I'll see what I can do if they ever process my application.

I've already paid my dues.

Chas

BlueStreak
01-19-2011, 11:03 AM
I buy stuff from China, heck everyone does.

Because the "race to the bottom" has left us with little choice.More to come. Unless we do something about it.

I bet he sure pays a lot more taxes than I do.

Probably so. Poor baby. We need to gove him a fat cut. Then tell you and the rest of us how lazy and unworthy we are . While creating more jobs in China.

Pete

Geez.

Dave

merrylander
01-19-2011, 11:19 AM
We avoid Chinese products like the plague and do not knowingly buy any of their crap.

piece-itpete
01-19-2011, 11:24 AM
They're everywhere, in everything. Welcome to Chimerica. Or Amina. :)

I used to argue with my last boss for bigger jobs this way - 10% of a mil is a LOT more than 30% of a hundred.

Pete

BlueStreak
01-19-2011, 11:35 AM
They're everywhere, in everything. Welcome to Chimerica. Or Amina. :)

"I used to argue with my last boss for bigger jobs this way - 10% of a mil is a LOT more than 30% of a hundred."

Care to clarify?

Pete

"Amina. I like that. Kind of a contortion of the word animosity, which would describe our attitude towards each other (Americans in general.) of late.

Dave

piece-itpete
01-19-2011, 11:44 AM
Yeah, I do hate all lefties, and ever since Palin used crosshairs I've really wanted to go out and shoot them all lol.

But you'd need a gun for that. Dang.

I mean, the wealthy still pay more than I do. A LOT more.

Pete

BlueStreak
01-19-2011, 12:20 PM
Yeah, I do hate all lefties, and ever since Palin used crosshairs I've really wanted to go out and shoot them all lol.

But you'd need a gun for that. Dang.

I mean, the wealthy still pay more than I do. A LOT more.

Pete

Are you a criminal psychopath? No? So, I doubt you'll be shooting anyone. Right?

Nobody is coming to take your guns.

That's right, they do. And that is as it should be.:)

Dave