I'm going to make an interesting hypothesis here

[Kamakiri]

But before I do, I need at least half a dozen people to chime in with their answers to this simple question:

How's your local weather been this summer?

[merrylander]

Strange, we got lots of rain in April, May & June, but July has been drier than a flour miller's fart. The only good thing is the temps are below normal, easier on the A/C bill. Delayed putting in the garden by the rains but now that it is in I need to run the soaker hose every second day.

[Fast_Eddie]

I'll play- but I'm affraid I know where you're going with this...

Denver, which is in a semi-arid climate has had unusually cool and wet weather. But not outside what would be considered statistically normal.

[Grumpy]

Coldest July on record here.

[cabinover]

Darn near Central Florida's for the most part. Sunny and humid, bordering on hot until the afternoon, then usually a rain shower followed up by either more rain or sweltering humidity.

Garden loves it, grass loves it, I don't so much.

[JJIII]

Cooler than usual, wetter than the past 2 or 3 years.

(watching/lurking)

[Kamakiri]

The last time I can remember a summer as cold and damp as this one's been was in 1986, and I remember it well. It was the summer after the Chernobyl accident.

I think something's happened that nobody's telling us, most likely within the borders of North Korea.

[noonereal]

Coldest July on record here.

4th coldest in NY last I heard

[Charles]

It's been trending cooler, and wetter, for the last several years here in Missouri. And that includes the winters.

And I, for one, like it.

Chas

[merrylander]

We finally got some rain this afternoon.

[Sandy G]

Cooler-but still pretty steamy-But we've had all the rain we SHOULDA had for about the last 10 years or so...When I say "cooler", I mean it's been 80-85 generally, instead of 85-95, so it's a matter of "degrees"-no pun intended.

[Twodogs]

If it hits 90 tomorrow as forecast, it will only be 3 days above the 90 mark this July.

[Charles]

Best I remember, back around '71, when I spent a couple of weeks around Smith Center driving a Massy 410 on the wheat harvest, it was plenty damn hot.

One other thing I noticed, you Redlegs had some mighty fine lookin' wimmen!!! Damn near converted me to the Union Cause!!!!

Chas

[Twodogs]

Best I remember, back around '71, when I spent a couple of weeks around Smith Center driving a Massy 410 on the wheat harvest, it was plenty damn hot.

One other thing I noticed, you Redlegs had some mighty fine lookin' wimmen!!! Damn near converted me to the Union Cause!!!!

Chas

They ain't too bad at all. I definitely married way out of my league.:D Ever been to Atlanta? I went there for a weekend audio meet once and damn, you absolutely could not spin a dead cat around your head without hitting a gal that was hotter than donut grease. It was unbelievable and I've never seen anything like it before or since. Damn near made me go Reb.

[Charles]

They ain't too bad at all. I definitely married way out of my league.:D Ever been to Atlanta? I went there for a weekend audio meet once and damn, you absolutely could not spin a dead cat around your head without hitting a gal that was hotter than donut grease. It was unbelievable and I've never seen anything like it before or since. Damn near made me go Reb.

Well, it's good to see that at least ONE thing supersedes regional politics. Besides, the war's been over for damn near 150 yrs.

Chas

[Combwork]

The last time I can remember a summer as cold and damp as this one's been was in 1986, and I remember it well. It was the summer after the Chernobyl accident.

I think something's happened that nobody's telling us, most likely within the borders of North Korea.

The fire at Chernobyl was extreme enough to be picked up by satellite as a heat signature. At that time, as far as I know only the USA and the Russians had the equipment to do this, so the Russian government could deny everything and their people would believe it; at least for a while.

Could something on that scale, some kind of nuclear accident or whatever have happened in North Korea without enough people being aware of it to make a cover-up impossible?

[Combwork]

Just a quick follow up; in the U.K. the coldest winter within the last 100 years was in 1947, following that was in 1963. I'm not talking about cold snaps; I'm talking about weeks, months even where the temperature stayed well below average. Not sure about A bomb tests in '47, but didn't you guys carry out a very powerful high level test in 1963?

[Sandy G]

I dunno, fellers...There was a "Twice-Told Tale" back in 1990-91 making the rounds in the "scanner" world-Guys who listen to scanners, hoping to catch a scrap from a gov't agency-about a "Faded Giant' or "Broken Arrow"...The story came out that a bunch of Islamic terrorists broke into a Soviet nuclear facility in one of the "Stan" countries on Russia's southern borders, killed all the Russians, & made off w/their nukes to parts unknown. We were lookin' for 'em, the Russians were lookin' for 'em, & I think the Brits were, too. The concensus was that they prolly could NOT have gotten 'em to go off, but who knows ? Then about 5-6 months later came the 1st Gulf War, & not long after that, the Soviet Union went out of business. It prolly was bullshit, I think that whoever got 'em would have showed their hand by now, but you never know...I have a friend who was EOD officer in Viet Nam, & he told me that the public-and most of the military-have NO IDEA what all we have "Out There" that would "Curl yr fingernails backwards" if we knew...

[Combwork]

The concensus was that they prolly could NOT have gotten 'em to go off, but who knows ?

They maybe wouldn't have needed to. A conventional explosion powerful enough to split the casing could make the center of any city useless for a good few years.

[Charles]

I would lay odds that there's going to be a mushroom cloud somewhere in the not too distant future. And as bad as that would be, there are so many low tech ways to disrupt society, blow a couple of bridges, a few transmission lines, and a sizeable portion of society will be living in the stone age inside of their McMansions.

And no doubt there are people lying awake at nights dreaming up ways to do this.

Chas

[Twodogs]

Why then is the USA doing everything in it's power (diplomatically) to keep Israel from destroying Iran's nuclear facilities. The window for them to take decisive action is slowly closing. I would think that we would at least be supplying arms, and jets if needed. I don't get it at all, as we supposedly don't want a nuclear armed Iran either. Could someone splain this to me?:confused:

[Sandy G]

I would lay odds that there's going to be a mushroom cloud somewhere in the not too distant future. And as bad as that would be, there are so many low tech ways to disrupt society, blow a couple of bridges, a few transmission lines, and a sizeable portion of society will be living in the stone age inside of their McMansions.

And no doubt there are people lying awake at nights dreaming up ways to do this.

Chas

Oh, yeah. Ever read the book, "Warday" by Whitley Strieber & James Kunetka ? It will CHILL YOUR SHITE...It's about a "limited" nuke exchange, the most damage came really from something called EMP damage, which basically "Shazbats" virtually all electronic circuits...Plus the stuff that's used to fix all of 'em, & the stuff that's used to fix THAT, & so on. The book was set in 1993, overnite we went from '93 to about 1950. Most planes & cars wouldn't work, because of electronic ignitions, & all the embedded computers, & of course, all the computers & electronic controls in modern jets.

[Charles]

Why then is the USA doing everything in it's power (diplomatically) to keep Israel from destroying Iran's nuclear facilities. The window for them to take decisive action is slowly closing. I would think that we would at least be supplying arms, and jets if needed. I don't get it at all, as we supposedly don't want a nuclear armed Iran either. Could someone splain this to me?:confused:

Well, it wasn't that long ago that Israel left a big hole in the ground over in Syria. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a B2 left a big hole in the ground over in Syria, and Israel took credit for it.

I still think that the Iraq War was all about containing Iran and putting pressure on the Saudis, and had nothing to do with removing Saddam.

Chas

[Charles]

Oh, yeah. Ever read the book, "Warday" by Whitley Strieber & James Kunetka ? It will CHILL YOUR SHITE...It's about a "limited" nuke exchange, the most damage came really from something called EMP damage, which basically "Shazbats" virtually all electronic circuits...Plus the stuff that's used to fix all of 'em, & the stuff that's used to fix THAT, & so on. The book was set in 1993, overnite we went from '93 to about 1950. Most planes & cars wouldn't work, because of electronic ignitions, & all the embedded computers, & of course, all the computers & electronic controls in modern jets.

Haven't read the book, but I know what you're talking about.

Better hang on to them vacuum tubes, fellers, might just need 'em.

Chas

[Twodogs]

had nothing to do with removing Saddam.

Chas

Well, you have to admit, it was a nice bonus seeing him get his neck stretched.:D

[Charles]

Well, you have to admit, it was a nice bonus seeing him get his neck stretched.:D

Sometimes, good things happen to bad people.

Chas

[Combwork]

Well, you have to admit, it was a nice bonus seeing him get his neck stretched.:D

Was it? For all it's faults Iraq was a secular country that as long as politics and protest didn't go beyond a certain point, allowed the population to pretty much do is it liked; women wearing fashionable clothes and driving cars etc.

Compare that to now; far from being a barrier between Iran and the rest of the world it looks like it's becoming part of it, at least as far as religion goes. We went in there all guns blazing, destroyed the infrastructure, disbanded the police and the entire military, then expected some kind of cloned Western democracy to grow from the ruins. What the hell were we playing at?

[merrylander]

Was it? For all it's faults Iraq was a secular country that as long as politics and protest didn't go beyond a certain point, allowed the population to pretty much do is it liked; women wearing fashionable clothes and driving cars etc.

Compare that to now; far from being a barrier between Iran and the rest of the world it looks like it's becoming part of it, at least as far as religion goes. We went in there all guns blazing, destroyed the infrastructure, disbanded the police and the entire military, then expected some kind of cloned Western democracy to grow from the ruins. What the hell were we playing at?

Rather interesting how people forget their own history. The democratic republic that is (or was) the USA was not imposed from without, it was seized from within. You cannot "give" people democracy, they must take it for themselves.

[noonereal]

Was it? For all it's faults Iraq was a secular country that as long as politics and protest didn't go beyond a certain point, allowed the population to pretty much do is it liked; women wearing fashionable clothes and driving cars etc.

Compare that to now; far from being a barrier between Iran and the rest of the world it looks like it's becoming part of it, at least as far as religion goes. We went in there all guns blazing, destroyed the infrastructure, disbanded the police and the entire military, then expected some kind of cloned Western democracy to grow from the ruins. What the hell were we playing at?

QFT, good post.

[chuckworkb]

But before I do, I need at least half a dozen people to chime in with their answers to this simple question:

How's your local weather been this summer?

My weather has been rain, followed by showers, with scattered thunderstorms, followed by flash flooding, followed by brief periods of sun.

[Charles]

Was it? For all it's faults Iraq was a secular country that as long as politics and protest didn't go beyond a certain point, allowed the population to pretty much do is it liked; women wearing fashionable clothes and driving cars etc.

Compare that to now; far from being a barrier between Iran and the rest of the world it looks like it's becoming part of it, at least as far as religion goes. We went in there all guns blazing, destroyed the infrastructure, disbanded the police and the entire military, then expected some kind of cloned Western democracy to grow from the ruins. What the hell were we playing at?

Well, the Middle East is the ultimate tar baby. I can see a certain amount of logic applied to what the Bush Administration has attempted to do over there, war is simply diplomacy by other means. Perhaps too ambitious, perhaps not ambitious enough. Germany and Japan didn't show up at the table with their hats in their hands until they got their asses kicked up between their shoulder blades. Been our buddies every since.

Hell, the Muslims and the Christians have only been slugging it out for about a thousand years. Then the powers that be gave Palestine to the Jews. Talk about adding a wild card to a hot game!!!

Shoulda give the Jews Mexico. They would've cleaned the place up and made it prosperous, and in short order. I like 'em, they're tough nuts.

Back to the Middle East. We need 'em, they got the oil. Now we can talk to them, shoot 'em up, don't too much matter what is done, we're still gonna be a loggerheads with 'em for another thousand years. Until we all convert to Islam, or they come into the 21st century. And even if the West were to eliminate the need for their oil, they're still going to be players. Just a lot poorer players.

I have no idea as to what will work in the Middle East. Everything that can, and has been tried is no more than adding another turd to your shit stew. Besides, if there were only two humans left on the planet, they'd find a way to be at one another's throats about something. It's our nature.

BTW, it's cool for this time of year, and fixin't to get colder and start raining. Least in Missouri.

Chas

[Twodogs]

It's clouding up purty good here right now. Man, we sure do need it.

[stereocuuple]

look up h.a.r.p. high alt. reasearch project they are monkeying around with the jet stream

[Charles]

look up h.a.r.p. high alt. reasearch project they are monkeying around with the jet stream

Another Redleg, huh? Well, welcome aboard from the resident Bushwhacker. Figger if we get too crossways with each other...we can always meet in Lawrence.

Just kidding, pleasure to meet you, Sir,

Chas

[Sandy G]

Sometimes I think they mess around w/stuff that they really ought not to be foolin' with...And some day, it's gonna come back & bite 'em in the Arse but good...HAARP is one thing, that CERN thingamabob is another...

[Twodogs]

look up h.a.r.p. high alt. reasearch project they are monkeying around with the jet stream

Hey, when did you all get here?

[stereocuuple]

Last night:D

erin

[Twodogs]

Last night:D

erin

I'm jaymanaa over there.;)

[Kamakiri]

Oh, yeah. Ever read the book, "Warday" by Whitley Strieber & James Kunetka ? It will CHILL YOUR SHITE...It's about a "limited" nuke exchange, the most damage came really from something called EMP damage, which basically "Shazbats" virtually all electronic circuits...Plus the stuff that's used to fix all of 'em, & the stuff that's used to fix THAT, & so on. The book was set in 1993, overnite we went from '93 to about 1950. Most planes & cars wouldn't work, because of electronic ignitions, & all the embedded computers, & of course, all the computers & electronic controls in modern jets.

I'm contemplating getting a points distributor for the van, just in case. Of course, in the event of such a catastrophe, the government would "commandeer" the damn thing anyways.

[merrylander]

Actually Lord Balfour created Palestine, they are really arabs. When the League of Nations wanted to create a homeland for the Jewish people they specified a larger area, what is now Israel, the Golan Heights and Jordan. Balfour gave everything east of the Jordan river to the Hashemite kings, gave the Golan Heights to Syria yet even at that the arabs refused settlement for the Jewish people. They desecrated their burial grounds and generally behaved like bandits so I am not sure what they are bitching about now.

[merrylander]

HARP has been going on for years, heck he was firing those things up in the air back in the 1970s.

[stereocuuple]

Oh, yeah. Ever read the book, "Warday" by Whitley Strieber & James Kunetka ? It will CHILL YOUR SHITE...It's about a "limited" nuke exchange, the most damage came really from something called EMP damage, which basically "Shazbats" virtually all electronic circuits...Plus the stuff that's used to fix all of 'em, & the stuff that's used to fix THAT, & so on. The book was set in 1993, overnite we went from '93 to about 1950. Most planes & cars wouldn't work, because of electronic ignitions, & all the embedded computers, & of course, all the computers & electronic controls in modern jets.

an event like the one in warday would save the earth from us just as a footnote erin and i were both big JERICHO fans what i wouldnt give to be able to live that way a simple life with limited tech. and perfectly clean windpowered ac for the you know what.

im afraid that what is happening with the climate is now well beyond our ability to correct.and the current admin. in washington is paying lip service to the enviroment movement as a whole. big energy rules the world and all of us are slaves to the powers that be. i am afraid that most pepole are to frightend to give up there comforts to put up much of a fight.

[merrylander]

Heck if Vestas wants to stick one of those big wind turbines in the back yard and run it through my meter, go right ahead. Kill two birds that way; screw the electric company and piss off the neighbors.

[BlueStreak]

Wet.

So what?

Doesn't mean anything.

Global warming is real.
The only misconception is that we can do much of anything about it.

So, BOTH sides are wrong, and I wish everyone would just shut up about it.

Dave

P.s. I know this is an old thread, but I brought it back to life because I felt I hadn't stirred up enough shit today.

[hillbilly]

I often wonder about global warming. Remember the ice age? Think about it. There were no cars burning gas, no coal plants sending smoke up in the air, and nobody was sending rocket ships through the ozone and into space. So, if I may ask, who was to blame for the first melting?

I watched something on Discovery channel about bodies they found burried in the ice from long, long ago .. and they said that means the ice is just now melted to a point in wich it had melted before, long before trains, planes, and automobiles. It'll freeze back when mother nature decides it's time, and at that time, stopping global warming will be the least of peoples worries. :eek:

[HatchetJack]

You are correct Hillbilly. Lots of factors can determine the avg. yearly temp.
Volcanos, moisture in the atmosphere, Ocean currents, layers of the sun
planet wobbles, egg shaped orbits ect, ect.... The problem of whether or
not global warming exists is the lack of proof that a normal climate has ever
existed in the first place. Mother nature knows what shes doing anyway.
I watched an interesting documentary the other day about paleontologists
finding fossil evidence that a tropical environment once existed in Alaska
complete with tropical plants and massive lizard creatures. It seems to me
that if the temps on Mars are rising at the same rate as on Earth then it must be
the Sun this time.

[d-ray657]

In other words, we can just leave it to mother nature to clean up the mess we make of the place?

I agree that nature can involve cycles and creates different balances, but the things that humans do to the atmosphere are not part of any natural cycle.

Regards,

D-Ray

[BlueStreak]

I often wonder about global warming. Remember the ice age? Think about it. There were no cars burning gas, no coal plants sending smoke up in the air, and nobody was sending rocket ships through the ozone and into space. So, if I may ask, who was to blame for the first melting?

I watched something on Discovery channel about bodies they found burried in the ice from long, long ago .. and they said that means the ice is just now melted to a point in wich it had melted before, long before trains, planes, and automobiles. It'll freeze back when mother nature decides it's time, and at that time, stopping global warming will be the least of peoples worries. :eek:

I agree. Global warming is real, but there is damn little we can do about it.
It's part of a natural cycle. We can try to lessen OUR impact. And we do have an impact.
But nothing we do is going to stop it.

Dave

[noonereal]

But nothing we do is going to stop it.



:confused: why do you say that?

[merrylander]

We, by last count, have received more than 6" above our "normal" rainfall.

[Charles]

I agree. Global warming is real, but there is damn little we can do about it.
It's part of a natural cycle. We can try to lessen OUR impact. And we do have an impact.
But nothing we do is going to stop it.

Dave

Once we kill ourselves off, everything will be cool.

Chas

[Boreas]

We, by last count, have received more than 6" above our "normal" rainfall.

Meanwhile, California has been falling farther and farther behind every year for the last 4 or 5 years. We no longer have a "fire season" out here. Now it's year 'round. Used to be that winter rains kept the fire danger down until late summer when things got really dry. Not any more.

John

[JCricket]

Well, it wasn't that long ago that Israel left a big hole in the ground over in Syria. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a B2 left a big hole in the ground over in Syria, and Israel took credit for it.

I still think that the Iraq War was all about containing Iran and putting pressure on the Saudis, and had nothing to do with removing Saddam.

Chas

I'll agree with this much, and could come up with far more colorful depictions of why the war in Iraq was started. I'll leave it at that for now.

[elwood127]

I chuckle when I think of the anarchy that will insue after the glacier covers america. Just like that movie. Move over mexico.

[BlueStreak]

Once we kill ourselves off, everything will be cool.

Chas

Not what I meant to say, Bro.

Dave

[whoaru99]

Global warming is real.


Is it?

[Boreas]

Is it?

Yes, global warming is real.

John

[whoaru99]

OK. I just wanted to be sure since there are now more questions than ever.

[Boreas]

OK. I just wanted to be sure since there are now more questions than ever.

Right, and as Tucker Carlson says, Sarah Palin is as smart as Al Gore.

How anyone can fail to see what's happening all over the world, from melting polar ice to crazy weather all over the world and not realize that something is wrong just baffles me but all that aside, all the things that are being suggested to mitigate global warming, like reducing carbon emissions and developing alternative clean sources of energy - they're all things we should be doing anyway.

The Japanese know this. So do the Europeans. Even the Chinese know this. All of them are busy developing new clean technology and leaving us in the dust. We should be doing this too but we're not, partly because our politicians have been bought and paid for by the corporations that have laid waste to the environment and partly because we've outsourced most of our manufacturing capacity.

John

[hillbilly]

Right, and as Tucker Carlson says, Sarah Palin is as smart as Al Gore.

How anyone can fail to see what's happening all over the world, from melting polar ice to crazy weather all over the world and not realize that something is wrong just baffles me but all that aside, all the things that are being suggested to mitigate global warming, like reducing carbon emissions and developing alternative clean sources of energy - they're all things we should be doing anyway.

The Japanese know this. So do the Europeans. Even the Chinese know this. All of them are busy developing new clean technology and leaving us in the dust. We should be doing this too but we're not, partly because our politicians have been bought and paid for by the corporations that have laid waste to the environment and partly because we've outsourced most of our manufacturing capacity.

John

Now I'm getting confused. Again, about a year ago ( give or take a month or two ) I remember Obama saying on TV that we needed to have a talk with China and try to convince them to lean towards clean coal technologies, and even sell the technology to them ( after we figure it out ourselves ). I'm lost.

[Boreas]

Now I'm getting confused. Again, about a year ago ( give or take a month or two ) I remember Obama saying on TV that we needed to have a talk with China and try to convince them to lean towards clean coal technologies, and even sell the technology to them. I'm lost.

I don't know what it is that you're referring to but China is already using coal for a huge proportion of their energy needs. In the lead-up to the Beijing Olympics the government ordered periodic shut-downs of their factories to get a little smog out of the air. China, like the rest of the world, needs to move away from coal.

A year ago Bush was in the White House. I suppose it's possible that he offered to sell China some "clean coal technology" - as soon as such a thing actually exists.

John

[hillbilly]

I don't know what it is that you're referring to but China is already using coal for a huge proportion of their energy needs. In the lead-up to the Beijing Olympics the government ordered periodic shut-downs of their factories to get a little smog out of the air. China, like the rest of the world, needs to move away from coal.

A year ago Bush was in the White House. I suppose it's possible that he offered to sell China some "clean coal technology" - as soon as such a thing actually exists.

John

I remember Obama himself saying that we need to invest in clean coal technoligies, and later start selling the technology to them. I also remember Obama stating he was wanting to start fining the coal co's real hefty if they didn't come up with and convert to clean coal technologies. He said if they didn't, they'd be forced to rethink it or be fined into bankruptsy. It made news in the little book the light company sends out to folks as well.

[Boreas]

I remember Obama himself saying that we need to invest in clean coal technoligies, and later start selling the technology to them. I also remember Obama stating he was wanting to start fining the coal co's real hefty if they didn't come up with and convert to clean coal technologies. He said if they didn't, they'd be forced to rethink it or be fined into bankruptsy. It made news in the little book the light company sends out to folks as well.

I remember that too. All the candidates spoke of clean coal technology. The only trouble is that technology doesn't exist and, frankly, nobody's really sure how to go about developing it.

We have so much coal that it only makes sense to use it but only if we can figure out how to burn it cleanly. Another problem, as you'll know, is what to do about these damned lagoons full of coal ash. Even just sitting there without bursting their seams, these things present a huge cancer risk to the people who live nearby.

John

[noonereal]

Another problem, as you'll know, is what to do about these damned lagoons full of coal ash. Even just sitting there without bursting their seams, these things present a huge cancer risk to the people who live nearby.

John

Are you suggesting that coal ash comes before corporate profits?:confused:


omg, how dare you

[merrylander]

How about coal gassification?

Oh BTW, if you don't believe in global warming take a holiday to the Maldives while you can because they are slowly heading beneath the waves as the sea levels rise.

[Boreas]

Are you suggesting that coal ash comes before corporate profits?:confused:

I've spent a fair amount of time in Pennsylvania, Maryland and West Virginia coal country, not so much Ohio, Kentucky & Tennessee, and have seen the way coal companies have raped the land and destroyed communities. We all "know" about this but it has to be seen to be fully appreciated.

I lived in Colorado too but never saw the coal region there. That being said, I know a little history. There were two Columbine Massacres in Colorado history. The more recent one we all know about but the first one, in 1927, doesn't get much attention. It occurred in the town of Serene when striking miners at the Columbine Mine were mowed down by State Police and company goons using machine guns and small arms.

Worse was the Ludlow Massacre. Colorado National Guardsmen attacked a "tent city" erected by striking coal miners and their families. Twenty people were killed, more than half of them children.

There were similar instances all over the country. Notable are the Lattimer Massacre in Pennsylvania, 19 killed, and the Battle of Matewan in West Virginia. There's a great movie, "Matewan", about this. It's pretty accurate.

I guess that means "yes", worker and community rights come before proofits.

John

[Boreas]

How about coal gassification?

The Synthetic Fuels Corporation was formed in 1980 (Carter) with Government support. It's brief was to develop alternative fuels and alternative technologies (like coal gasification) to reduce our dependence on imported oil. It was dissolved in 1985 (Reagan) in the face of Right wing complaints that it "interfered with the free market". Sound familiar?

Oh BTW, if you don't believe in global warming take a holiday to the Maldives while you can because they are slowly heading beneath the waves as the sea levels rise.

The Maldives are far from the only ones. For instance there's Tuvalu.

John

[BlueStreak]

I've spent a fair amount of time in Pennsylvania, Maryland and West Virginia coal country, not so much Ohio, Kentucky & Tennessee, and have seen the way coal companies have raped the land and destroyed communities. We all "know" about this but it has to be seen to be fully appreciated.

I lived in Colorado too but never saw the coal region there. That being said, I know a little history. There were two Columbine Massacres in Colorado history. The more recent one we all know about but the first one, in 1927, doesn't get much attention. It occurred in the town of Serene when striking miners at the Columbine Mine were mowed down by State Police and company goons using machine guns and small arms.

Worse was the Ludlow Massacre. Colorado National Guardsmen attacked a "tent city" erected by striking coal miners and their families. Twenty people were killed, more than half of them children.

There were similar instances all over the country. Notable are the Lattimer Massacre in Pennsylvania, 19 killed, and the Battle of Matewan in West Virginia. There's a great movie, "Matewan", about this. It's pretty accurate.

I guess that means "yes", worker and community rights come before proofits.

John

No, no, no, John. You have it ALL WRONG! Only unions engage in violence. I know this, Glenn Beck said so.

You do realize that it is not politically correct among right wingers to portray striking union members as victims of corporate sponsered violence, don't you? Even if it is historical fact.

What's that? You don't really care what they think?
Neither do I:D

Dave

[d-ray657]

No, no, no, John. You have it ALL WRONG! Only unions engage in violence. I know this, Glenn Beck said so.

You do realize that it is not politically correct among right wingers to portray striking union members as victims of corporate sponsered violence, don't you? Even if it is historical fact.

What's that? You don't really care what they think?
Neither do I:D

Dave

The threshhold is so low on the issue of "union violence" that there are limits on the number of pickets the union can have so as not to intimidate scabs.

Here's another example of management double-speak. The employer does not have the right to fire union members engaged in a lawful economic strike, but it can permanently replace those workers. You're out of a job, but you haven't been fired, you've been permanently replaced.


Regards,

D-Ray

[noonereal]

I guess that means "yes", worker and community rights come before profits.



Does anyone in Washington know about this?

[devoid]

Were all just to scared of dying. It's why some think perfect health care is a right. And they're just trying to keep us all worked up so we keep buying. And there's to dammed many people on this planet anyhow. If Mother cranks up the oven our population numbers will go down because our environment is changed. Same as the deer.

From the Drudge Report:

In 1975 US government pushed 'the coming ice age'... (http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/03/climate-science-gore-intelligent-technology-sutton.html)


Eat your broccoli

[merrylander]

Does anyone in Washington know about anything??

Fixed it for you