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View Full Version : Healthcare and Insurance - It's Not a Free Ride


wajobu
08-02-2009, 09:53 AM
I am so sick of the Conservatives and Republicans complaining about any kind of rethink with health insurance and healthcare reform. They, of course, have no constructive alternatives, because they're often in bed with the insurance and drug company lobbies (not that the Democrats aren't either).

I do think that the approach to reform working its way through the House and Senate is the wrong approach, but the cost of health insurance is absolutely stifling--and getting ever worse. I think that the solution is simple...every citizen in the USA should have a limited major medical coverage package for hospitalization with a high deductible in direct proportion to one's Adjusted Gross Income...if you want extra coverage or some kind of supplement, buy it on the commercial market.

Anthem Blue Cross in CT is once again seeking 24 to 33% increases on premiums for the coming year. At the moment we have a $5,000 deductible (that we have increased each year to keep premiums manageable), which means that we pay for everything out of pocket unless we end up in the hospital and then Anthem re-prices every charge to reduce charges against the deductible (:rolleyes: prolonging our satisfying our deductible). We also have an Health Savings Account (HSA) that we fund every month to give us a hedge on the deductible. With the increase that Anthem is seeking our monthly insurance premium will once again surpass the cost of our housing.

We are fortunate to have health insurance, but if the economy doesn't improve and the health insurance costs continue to rise, we too will be uninsured.

The system is broken, and needs to be fixed, and the Republicans better shut-up, get constructive or get out of the way. They continue to use fear tactics to tell folks that government-based insurance is the villain...I think that there can be a government and regulated private industry solution developed.

I think that many folks out there that don't like the talk of reform just want free healthcare, but someone has to pay for it...nothing is free. I'm willing to pay for health insurance, I'm willing to pay more taxes to help fund a solution, but I'm sick of folks complaining about making a change and I'm even sicker of 16 to 40% insurance premium increases every year for less and less coverage (and we have done nothing, but decrease coverage, increase deductibles and watch our premiums continue to skyrocket). We need insurance regulation.

Government isn't always the villain...I think that the profit-based Insurance Industry is largely responsible for this mess.

painter
08-02-2009, 10:40 AM
I tend to agree with most of your post. As a medicare recipients when we get a cost of living increase...the Medicare cost is increased. So IMO the medicare system will support whatever Washington comes up with... in one way or other. Oh...I recently got a notice from our health provider ( we pay) outlining the colonoscopy process. FIRST a fecal occult etc. Colonoscopy was to be determined by your health care provider. Last two physical exams were provided by a nurse practioner. Funny thing...the charges were the same. So...I feel like I am already in a Gov. system.

Twodogs
08-02-2009, 10:41 AM
I agree Waj. except that the Republicans don't have any ideas. I just happened to catch a Senator (R) on the news this morning that explained several Republican ideas, and complained that the Dems won't even look at them. Sometimes I think partisanship will be the ruin of this country. When is the last time either side really tried to work together.:(

Twodogs
08-02-2009, 11:57 AM
I just saw where McCain is going to be on FOX tonight explaining some of the Republican ideas, if anyone's interested.

noonereal
08-02-2009, 01:16 PM
I just saw where McCain is going to be on FOX tonight explaining some of the Republican ideas, if anyone's interested.

If he were serious he would not be on Fix and it would not be after decades of opposition.

Think about it.

Twodogs
08-02-2009, 01:33 PM
If he were serious he would not be on Fix and it would not be after decades of opposition.

Think about it.

and.................................if you're not interested, don't feckin watch it.:)

noonereal
08-02-2009, 03:09 PM
and.................................if you're not interested, don't feckin watch it.:)

So after decades of opposition you feel McCain will NOW come fourth with something of value?

You don't find it peculiar that today he has an idea? and that Fox, an overt agenda driven tool of the wealthy used to chump the hard working folk are carrying it?

:rolleyes:

Twodogs
08-02-2009, 03:47 PM
I was responding to the OT where it was stated that the Republicans don't have any ideas on health care. McCain is a republican, and will be expressing "ideas on health care" tonight on FOX News channel. I doubt that MSNBC invited him. Your responses sum up the Dems for me; If it's a Republican idea, why even listen to it at all. And they label the Republicans as the party of no.:p

noonereal
08-02-2009, 03:54 PM
Maybe reread my post. I asked why McCain has found health care religion after decades of objections?

An FYI, he is on Fox because it will give him a platform to speak from unchallenged, not because another network will not have him.

Twodogs
08-02-2009, 05:30 PM
Whatever

noonereal
08-02-2009, 06:54 PM
lol, facts are facts;)

Charles
08-02-2009, 08:27 PM
lol, facts are facts;)

You know what Noonereal, you exhibit all of the classic, arrogant liberal traits which drive people into the conservative movement.

"FIX" network, "hard working chumps", "it's sad when people vote against their own best interests", etc. You dismiss everything to the left of your personal viewpoint out of hand, as though it's not worthy of any consideration.

The left has played this game for a long time. They paint themselves as enlightened and highly intelligent. Their candidates take on a rock star personna, and are addressed by one name, such as "Hillary" or "Obama". Bill Clinton was a policy wonk, Hillary was the "world's smartest woman", and Obama can do anything short of walk on water.

As one of the "chumps" who is simply a tool of the right wing puppetmasters, and too stupid to vote in my best interests, I'd just like to point out a couple of things. I not only vote much of the time on principle, but as often as not on what I perceive as not only in my best interests, but also in the best interests of the nation.

"Facts are facts", huh? Politics and mathematics are not the same thing. But I'll give you one fact...YOUR opinion of what's best for me is not the same as MY opinion of what's best for me.

I will admit, there are a lot of really smart liberals. But again, there are a lot of really smart conservatives. They just have a different philosophy.

But the REALLY smart ones don't go around trying to piss off the opposition, because if they expect to get anything done, they're gonna need them.

Chas

painter
08-02-2009, 09:56 PM
"Facts are facts", huh? Politics and mathematics are not the same thing. But I'll give you one fact...YOUR opinion of what's best for me is not the same as MY opinion of what's best for me.



Chas

Well said! We all vote according to what we believe to be in the best interest of us as well as our families.
What I find most interesting is...those that voted Obama into office are not happy campers these days. A few are still watching the election polls. It's over...relax...you got whom you wanted... for now. ;)

As far as the healthcare issue...we need to contact our reps and let them know how we feel. The squeeky wheel gets the oil.

Sandy G
08-03-2009, 06:01 AM
Obamessiah CAN'T walk on water ?!? Omigawd, Myrtle ! What are we gonna do...Next, you'll be tellin' me he AIN'T gonna pay for my house, gas, phone, lights, insurance, gettin' the dog groomed....

merrylander
08-03-2009, 07:09 AM
If you relly look back a few years you will see that when people like Dirksen and others of his era died politics started to get nasty. By the time the Decider's right hand man Rove got started and that other fat idiot with the talk show bi-partisanship died and it will be a snowy day in August when it gets ressurected.

Richard Mellon Scaife did this country no favours with all the money he spent trying to demonize the Clintons, up to that point Bill's only crime had been beating Bush senior at the ballot box. Regardless of what so many in the GOP believe they do not rule by divine right.

I really think that at this point both parties should be outlawed. The right is bereft of new ideas and I equate Blue Dogs with those spoiled kids who, when they don't get their own way, hold their breath until they turn blue.

Even Reagan with all his faults managed to garner a few bi-partisan votes.

Now as Will Rogers said many years ago, we really do have the best government money can buy.

noonereal
08-03-2009, 08:18 AM
You know what Noonereal, you exhibit all of the classic, arrogant liberal traits which drive people into the conservative movement.

"FIX" network, "hard working chumps", "it's sad when people vote against their own best interests", etc. You dismiss everything to the left of your personal viewpoint out of hand, as though it's not worthy of any consideration.

The left has played this game for a long time. They paint themselves as enlightened and highly intelligent. Their candidates take on a rock star personna, and are addressed by one name, such as "Hillary" or "Obama". Bill Clinton was a policy wonk, Hillary was the "world's smartest woman", and Obama can do anything short of walk on water.

As one of the "chumps" who is simply a tool of the right wing puppetmasters, and too stupid to vote in my best interests, I'd just like to point out a couple of things. I not only vote much of the time on principle, but as often as not on what I perceive as not only in my best interests, but also in the best interests of the nation.

"Facts are facts", huh? Politics and mathematics are not the same thing. But I'll give you one fact...YOUR opinion of what's best for me is not the same as MY opinion of what's best for me.

I will admit, there are a lot of really smart liberals. But again, there are a lot of really smart conservatives. They just have a different philosophy.

But the REALLY smart ones don't go around trying to piss off the opposition, because if they expect to get anything done, they're gonna need them.

Chas

Did not mean to insult you but why not then offer your opinion as to why after decades of opposing health care McCain is now offering something?
Do you also disagree as to why he is on Fox?

painter
08-03-2009, 11:51 AM
If you relly look back a few years you will see that when people like Dirksen and others of his era died politics started to get nasty. .


I think we all have a tendency to keep looking back (he said...she said). Obama is the pres and has promised change. So far...the changes are not what America is all about. Remember...I am an Independent. i was a Democrat WITH BRAINS at one time...then a Republican who found little difference from the former. I would hope we could look at the present...hope for the ideals our country stood for and b**ch when necessary. I see too many young people with children going to food banks. Men are out of work!!!! Keep in mind... when unemployed individuals have reached their limit on benefits...the results will show a lesser number on the roles.

Grumpy
08-03-2009, 08:11 PM
I think we all have a tendency to keep looking back (he said...she said). Obama is the pres and has promised change. So far...the changes are not what America is all about. Remember...I am an Independent. i was a Democrat WITH BRAINS at one time...then a Republican who found little difference from the former. I would hope we could look at the present...hope for the ideals our country stood for and b**ch when necessary. I see too many young people with children going to food banks. Men are out of work!!!! Keep in mind... when unemployed individuals have reached their limit on benefits...the results will show a lesser number on the roles.


I know several people who are in the unenjoyment system and have been for close to a year and half. Its my understanding as of right now there is no limit in sight as to term limits. In a way thats a good thing but many I know refuse to look because they are earning way more on the house then
if they took lessor jobs.

wajobu
08-03-2009, 08:20 PM
Back to Healthcare and Insurance:

I listened (while on a long work-related car ride) to a radio program today on the health care debate and a nurse called in to remind folks that healthcare isn't free (nor is the insurance). Since the 1940s so many folks have had their health insurance paid for by their employers...if the employers didn't buy this then either the profits would increase or salaries would (could) increase, or both...but then the employee would need to purchase their own insurance. What many people forget is that one way or the other we are all paying for healthcare already, yet we all need to be more conscious of the responsibilities and costs of healthcare and insurance.

Healthcare and insurance isn't and shouldn't be free.

painter
08-03-2009, 08:49 PM
I know several people who are in the unenjoyment system and have been for close to a year and half. Its my understanding as of right now there is no limit in sight as to term limits. In a way thats a good thing but many I know refuse to look because they are earning way more on the house then
if they took lessor jobs.


You are right...thanks for setting the record straight. This is the latest from New York State...

Extended Benefits
Since the average unemployment rate in New York State is now above 8%, an additional 7 weeks of Extended Benefits have been added, for a total of 20 weeks. This is in addition to the 26 weeks of regular benefits and the 33 weeks of Emergency Benefits. Extended Benefits may be claimed on this website in the usual manner.
For information about Unemployment Benefit Extensions, click here. ;)

noonereal
08-04-2009, 05:32 AM
You are right...thanks for setting the record straight. This is the latest from New York State...

Extended Benefits
Since the average unemployment rate in New York State is now above 8%, an additional 7 weeks of Extended Benefits have been added, for a total of 20 weeks. This is in addition to the 26 weeks of regular benefits and the 33 weeks of Emergency Benefits. Extended Benefits may be claimed on this website in the usual manner.
For information about Unemployment Benefit Extensions, click here. ;)

How much is the benefit?
What is the cost of living?
What did you have to earn to get what benefit?
Without this info how can one say that it is better to collect than work?:confused:

The debate about weather it is better to put a family on the street rather than pay a benifit is another issue.

painter
08-04-2009, 06:24 AM
How much is the benefit?
What is the cost of living?
What did you have to earn to get what benefit?
Without this info how can one say that it is better to collect than work?:confused:

The debate about weather it is better to put a family on the street rather than pay a benifit is another issue.


err...when did I say that? Here let me give you what you evidentally want...http://www.labor.state.ny.us/pressreleases/2009/July16_2009.htm

Why do I feel like I'm in a classroom? :p Oh your misspelled word...weather...is whether...don't fret...we all make mistakes. Right? That's why they put erasers on pencils.

Please don't even think about moving here. At the rate we're going...we'll soon turn out the lights.

noonereal
08-04-2009, 07:02 AM
Sorry if I misunderstood your position on unemployment benefits.
What is your position?

I don't mean to ask so many questions but that is how I learn.
I find that in religion and politics most people do not have answers and if they did maybe they would change their mind on some issues. I am sure I would.

Don't think about moving here??? Where is here?

merrylander
08-04-2009, 07:32 AM
Healthcare was not free in Canada either but even with the payroll tax - 0.8% of taxable income and the Provincial fee $54/month for the family plan, they still spend much less as a percent of GDP.

For every "horror" story you can come up with about their Single Payer plan I can find two "horror" stories about the big health insurance companies.

I get sob stories about outrageous drug prices where people claim self-righteously that we are paying for all the research and the rest of the world is getting a free ride. I can dig up exact numbers but the pharma spending on advertising runs in the billions every year and is rising - that is what we are paying for, not research, just advertising and golden parachutes. Not to mention the $300 million they recently spread around Congress.

Will we get healthcare reform? If you don't want it I would not lose any sleep over it because it ain't gonna happen. Dr. No and Senator Demented will see to that.

I enjoy the good health that I do partly because of genes and partly because of preventative medicine. When my opthalmologist back in Ottawa saw something in my right eye he sent me to a retinal specialist. We did not have to ask the government and the fee was $0.00. My sister-in-law complained of chest pains, her children drove her to the hospital, she was examined and the next day they installed a pacemaker.

A dear friend living in Memphis died before 60 because her insurance company figured she was too old to spend the money to treat the cancer. By the time she did get treatment it was too late.

No, dinna worry about change 'cause it won't happen, folks here would rather go to hell in a handcart than change a damn thing because we are always right.

noonereal
08-04-2009, 08:04 AM
For every "horror" story you can come up with about their Single Payer plan I can find two "horror" stories about the big health insurance companies.

.

Single Payer was never on the table which kind of makes this entire plan a sham.

cabinover
08-04-2009, 09:47 AM
If the plan is so great why aren't all the Senators willing to sign onto it?

As for Canada having the greatest health plan since sliced bread I have a friend who's mother just died in Toronto two months ago. She went in with an obstructed bowel. By the time they got around to her 3 days later she'd died. They did give her a bed right away though. The doctors wouldn't even call my friend in NY to tell her anything about what was going on. An intern called to report the death to her, not even her own doctor.

Just what I know from being told.

As for this health care plan, I for one am very glad it may not see the light of day. It's oversight boards will be appointed by the President. Hmmm....Al Sharpton am gonna look into your needs? Jesse Jackson perhaps? Please.

Sandy G
08-04-2009, 09:54 AM
Al Sharpton oughta have the same Bariatric Surgery done to him that I had...As Richard Pryor would have said-"Big fried chicken eatin' motherf"-Well, you get the picture... (grin)

Twodogs
08-04-2009, 10:45 AM
Obama care is dead as far as I can tell (from FOX News).:D

noonereal
08-04-2009, 10:54 AM
If the plan is so great why aren't all the Senators willing to sign onto it?

.


Not to be a cynic but in large part I thin the answer is that it is not in their own best interest as health care companies contribute mightily to them and they are the real reason we still have no national health care plan in place.

noonereal
08-04-2009, 10:54 AM
Obama care is dead as far as I can tell (from FOX News).:D

I think you are "right." ;)

merrylander
08-04-2009, 11:20 AM
The reason the Senators won't sign on is because they already have taxpayer funded Cheney Care - socialized medecine anyone?

cabinover
08-04-2009, 11:27 AM
Not to be a cynic but in large part I thin the answer is that it is not in their own best interest as health care companies contribute mightily to them and they are the real reason we still have no national health care plan in place.

And there lies one of the largest problems. Since when is it supposed to be anything but society's interest?

Lobbying should be outlawed AFAIC. The annointed one was gonna stop it first thing, guess that was another guy talking.

I'm not one to back insurance companies by any means but can you imagine being a company that donated to someone like the Haight-Ashbury hippie and then hear her slamming them from her pulpit? Ironic.

noonereal
08-04-2009, 11:37 AM
Lobbying should be outlawed AFAIC. .

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone to disagree with you on this.

wajobu
08-04-2009, 07:21 PM
Ah, now Republican operatives are encouraging disruption and disinformation at Town Meetings. They're SO constructive. They are fake grassroot protesters being led by K-Street lobbyists like Conservatives for Patients Rights (and some formerly supported by the likes of Jack Abramoff)--FRAUDS.

I have a solution...take every single one of the disruptors in the room...separate them from the crowd and track them and their healthcare as the prices skyrocket and they lose their jobs...as they lose their homes and then get sick...as they complain about needing coverage and about going bankrupt...then getting their unemployment checks (and when they complain when they run out after an unprecedented 26 weeks or better)...and then when they are collecting welfare checks and Medicare and Medicaid payments...oh they don't want their government support...the government is the villain.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/08/recipe_surfaces_for_guerilla_w.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111547366&ft=1&f=1014
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/

They can scream loud and proud and then follow their ilk, as lemmings, over the cliff into the abyss.

These idiots followers are fools...the system is broken and they love it as it is (so they're told to say). The people are nothing but mouthpieces programmed (brainwashed) by their talk-radio and TV idiots. I wonder how many of these people have ever had to pay a health insurance premium in their lives?

cabinover
08-05-2009, 04:32 AM
I'm waiting for our town meeting so I too can become one of those operatives you speak of. Need to look around for the old Obama info so I'll be sure and do it up proper.

Walker are you saying that folks simply can't be upset enough to do this on their own?

noonereal
08-05-2009, 05:30 AM
"The Mob"

fitting.

cabinover
08-05-2009, 05:50 AM
Wait a minute. You guys are saying that ACORN gathering folks up and taking them to polling places outside their districts is fine but town meetings are being taken over by operatives? I'll grant you some of them may be planted but I'd be willing to take a gamble that many are there of their own will and deeply concerned about the direction we're being "hurried" into.

noonereal
08-05-2009, 05:59 AM
Who is "you guys"?


Fox would be proud of you.

This country is so polarized that people no longer see people.

We had an election, we made a change, be a man and respect it.

Hows that for fair and balanced?

How's that for polarizing?

Not bad right?

Doesn't take much thought just intolerance of people that are different.

cabinover
08-05-2009, 08:38 AM
I reckon the "you guys" moniker would be Walker and yourself. You dub these folks as "The Mob", all I see are folks that don't want this bill shoved down there throat when the people voting for it haven't even read it.

Yes we had an election, the President won. I give up, feel free to take anything you want from me. If I stand up against you then I'm just an operative or a rogue citizen that should be shushed and set outside the wall.

noonereal
08-05-2009, 11:50 AM
the term The Mob is not mine, it is from the Dem's new attack campaign on the republicans.
no place for this rhetoric on either side.

Nothing wrong with not supporting this bill, I don't either.
This whole phony disrupt the tour and work the crowd into a frenzy is not good for the country though.
The bill needs to be explained to the American people as they are being mislead and scared away from it. I guess I am saying the end does not justify the means and that American should understand the bill before they formulate an opinion.

painter
08-05-2009, 11:59 AM
Wait a minute. You guys are saying that ACORN gathering folks up and taking them to polling places outside their districts is fine but town meetings are being taken over by operatives? I'll grant you some of them may be planted but I'd be willing to take a gamble that many are there of their own will and deeply concerned about the direction we're being "hurried" into.



Woo...be careful Cabinover...your views might not be considered normal. :rolleyes: Heh...heh

cabinover
08-05-2009, 01:09 PM
the term The Mob is not mine, it is from the Dem's new attack campaign on the republicans.
no place for this rhetoric on either side.

Nothing wrong with not supporting this bill, I don't either.
This whole phony disrupt the tour and work the crowd into a frenzy is not good for the country though.
The bill needs to be explained to the American people as they are being mislead and scared away from it. I guess I am saying the end does not justify the means and that American should understand the bill before they formulate an opinion.

My bad, I thought that was your term until I heard it on the news this morning.

I'm glad to hear that you don't support the passing of this bill.

I believe that some folks actually getting worked up about something besides who is going to win American Hero Reality TV tomorrow night is a great thing.
We need more of it in my opinion. Maybe the befuddled masses will finally pull their heads out of their collective asses and start questioning those running the show! Wouldn't that be something to watch? :D

As for Americans understanding a 1200 page bill, and let's face it it could be any country at this point, it's going to be very difficult to accomplish if you cannot hear the truth without it being slanted by the messengers.

cabinover
08-05-2009, 01:10 PM
Woo...be careful Cabinover...your views might not be considered normal. :rolleyes: Heh...heh

It won't be the first time, I've always been abby-normal :D

noonereal
08-05-2009, 03:36 PM
abby-normal :D

one of the funniest lines in film history, IMHO of course. ;)

merrylander
08-06-2009, 07:45 AM
I see Chuck "Ethanol" Grassley lying about the Canadian plan on TV. "We don't want that here because we don't want rationing." What the hell does he think we have here right now?

cabinover
08-06-2009, 09:15 AM
As flawed as this sytem is I'll throw this out. This same friend that lost her mother two months ago was suffering from amnesia last week. I took her to the hospital and sat with her all day. S

She would have spells and forget everything we'd just spoke about. At 73 some loss is expected but this a woman that still has her whits about her.

In the space from 9:00AM until I left at 5:00PM she'd

:been seen by an ER doctor, who immediately was in touch with her primary and pharmacy as she couldn't recall which medications being taken.
:had a chest X-ray done to rule out infections/pneumonia
:had a CAT scan done to rule out mini strokes

After I left that night they checked her arteries for plaque buildup internally and was scheduled for an EEG the following morning.

At 73 years young it makes me wonder just how much Obama's advisors would have let through before saying she's too old and no longer viable.

Just sayin

cabinover
08-06-2009, 09:17 AM
Ya know, I'm not afraid of Nationized Health Care. What I'm afraid of is the people hand picked to run it and the waste that is incumbent in government.

I said incumbent 'cause I couldn't spell inherent (sp) :D

painter
08-06-2009, 09:26 AM
Ya know, I'm not afraid of Nationized Health Care. What I'm afraid of is the people hand picked to run it and the waste that is incumbent in government.

I said incumbent 'cause I couldn't spell inherent (sp) :D




I can't understand how a government can regulate a company it owns

Also...has anyone given any thought to the health privacy issue? Should government have access to anyone's private health information? Could that information be used against you in any way (job, promotion etc)?
I recently heard...a nurse was fired from a doc's office for discussing information in a patients file. As it is now...you have the privacy. Just a thought.
__________________
We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. Edward R. Murrow

cabinover
08-06-2009, 10:21 AM
I can't understand how a government can regulate a company it owns

Regulators regulating regulators. That'll be a pissing match huh?

Also...has anyone given any thought to the health privacy issue? Should government have access to anyone's private health information? Could that information be used against you in any way (job, promotion etc)?
I recently heard...a nurse was fired from a doc's office for discussing information in a patients file. As it is now...you have the privacy. Just a thought.
__________________
We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. Edward R. Murrow

My wife is a Dental Hygienist and deals with HPPA all day. Christ she has patients come in that we both know as friends and can't tell me she saw them. Now if that isn't dumb.

I'm sure if the government wants to know something about you they can get it but I can see where it could be used against you in a job search/promotion. As it is now a credit check is run on applicants before they are hired.

What difference is it if I had a bankruptcy years ago or a credit card that missed a payment twice when out of work to my ability to turn wrenches? Absolutely none.

noonereal
08-06-2009, 10:24 AM
I can't understand how a government can regulate a company it owns

Also...has anyone given any thought to the health privacy issue? Should government have access to anyone's private health information? Could that information be used against you in any way (job, promotion etc)?
I recently heard...a nurse was fired from a doc's office for discussing information in a patients file. As it is now...you have the privacy. Just a thought.
__________________
We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. Edward R. Murrow

People are people. Confidentiality is no different if it is a government worker or a corporate employee. Most respect it, a few don't. On some occasions one is disciplined for not respecting it.

merrylander
08-06-2009, 11:41 AM
As you might imagine, having immigrated here I have had considerable contact with the government. During the 25 years I have been here I have worked for five different companies and for myself in a consulting business. When it comes to trust I have had more luck with the government.

noonereal
08-06-2009, 11:47 AM
As you might imagine, having immigrated here I have had considerable contact with the government. During the 25 years I have been here I have worked for five different companies and for myself in a consulting business. When it comes to trust I have had more luck with the government.

I have had the same experience

noonereal
08-06-2009, 01:34 PM
As a medicare recipients .

How's that working out?
What decisions have they made for you?
Any problem with privacy issues?

noonereal
08-06-2009, 01:40 PM
I'm waiting for our town meeting so I too can become one of those operatives you speak of. Need to look around for the old Obama info so I'll be sure and do it up proper.

Walker are you saying that folks simply can't be upset enough to do this on their own?

"The RW first sold their integrity by endorsing Palin and now they are prostituting themselves further by dissemenating misinformation that is routinely accepted and spread by FOX.
Now ... the RW pundits have lost what little credibility they have left by accepting the actions of those RW'ers who want to end all town meetings by disrupting them and by not allowing anyone to answer any questions.

I honestly never thought that FOX "news" would stoop so low. I stand corrected."

I stole this post from a local political board. I think it points out well that Fox not only supports the right but is also engaged in rallying the right. Do you recall how they called all of you to the tea bag thing?
Any examples of any other networks taking a political "lead roll?"

cabinover
08-06-2009, 05:10 PM
So what you're saying is that there cannot possibly be any honestly concerned people at these "town meetings"? Just rabblerousers I presume?

I don't have a problem with anyone rallying people, especially when they've got a legitimate bitch to air. BTW, have you noticed that your elected representatives can't answer the questions?

Anyway, I like how the Dems are crying "phony" to all the disrupted town meetings. Gives me hope that not all people are stupid, they just didn't vote and are now coming out in force.

noonereal
08-06-2009, 05:25 PM
So what you're saying is that there cannot possibly be any honestly concerned people at these "town meetings"? Just rabblerousers I presume?


Nope

I don't have a problem with anyone rallying people, especially when they've got a legitimate bitch to air.

I do when it is a NEWS organization.

BTW, have you noticed that your elected representatives can't answer the questions?

Yep.

Anyway, I like how the Dems are crying "phony" to all the disrupted town meetings. Gives me hope that not all people are stupid, they just didn't vote and are now coming out in force.

Not likely the case.

Charles
08-06-2009, 05:36 PM
So what you're saying is that there cannot possibly be any honestly concerned people at these "town meetings"? Just rabblerousers I presume?

I don't have a problem with anyone rallying people, especially when they've got a legitimate bitch to air. BTW, have you noticed that your elected representatives can't answer the questions?

Anyway, I like how the Dems are crying "phony" to all the disrupted town meetings. Gives me hope that not all people are stupid, they just didn't vote and are now coming out in force.

Face it Noonereal, people ain't showin' up just because "Fix News" told 'em to.

You may have a point about about Beck and Hannidty leading the charge on some of this, and I don't think that I've ever seen actions quite as overt on the other stations. And I don't care for shouting anyone down, even though these town hall meetings are nothing more that a photo op and a chance to dissemble information to the great unwashed.

You're missing the point. The "Indians" are starting to "go off the reservation". And it's the Indians who are doing this, not "Fix" news.

Chas

noonereal
08-06-2009, 06:45 PM
Face it Noonereal, people ain't showin' up just because "Fix News" told 'em to.

You may have a point about about Beck and Hannidty leading the charge on some of this, and I don't think that I've ever seen actions quite as overt on the other stations. And I don't care for shouting anyone down, even though these town hall meetings are nothing more that a photo op and a chance to dissemble information to the great unwashed.

You're missing the point. The "Indians" are starting to "go off the reservation". And it's the Indians who are doing this, not "Fix" news.

Chas

not around here, but as i said health care right now does not make sense, the silly reasons being put out are bogus though

wajobu
08-06-2009, 08:04 PM
I'm waiting for our town meeting so I too can become one of those operatives you speak of. Need to look around for the old Obama info so I'll be sure and do it up proper.

Walker are you saying that folks simply can't be upset enough to do this on their own?

People can be upset on their own, but they need to speak from the experience of actually paying for their own insurance and healthcare and actually knowing what it costs before they can criticize the new "plan"--right or wrong. Many folks are blindly criticizing with no basis of understanding of what it costs to pay a medical insurance bill and what it costs for companies to provide this service. I think that the villains are the insurance companies, and I speak from experience on this (as an employer and former employee).

Most of the folks at these town meetings spewing this vitriol are nothing more than folks reading from a script prepared by others (Rush, Beck, Hannity, Fox News operatives, The C Street Family, Focus on the Family, etc.), and I wager that most have no clue about what they are saying--they don't and can't think for themselves. They are living in a dream world when it comes to healthcare and most other things related to government (or non government services). They know that they want services, privileges and freedoms, but they don't want to be taxed to get them--they want it for free. Hey baby, Freedom isn't free. I challenge them to make a list of what they want and don't want in their lives and out of their government; then put them in a vacuum with their scheme and see how long they remain viable...soon, they will be screaming for help...government help.

Don't get me wrong Bob...I'm all for being responsible for oneself, but I think that in an industrialized nation that there should be baseline healthcare FOR ALL. If you want more than the baseline...buy it on your own, and like what you get...we are all taxed for this privilege based on our AGI...citizens, that is.

cabinover
08-06-2009, 08:13 PM
People can be upset on their own, but they need to speak from the experience of actually paying for their own insurance and actually knowing what it costs before they can criticize the new "plan"--right or wrong. Many folks are blindly criticizing with no basis of understanding of what it costs to pay a medical insurance bill and what it costs for companies to provide this service. I think that the villains are the insurance companies, and I speak from experience on this.

I've had the fortune (pardon the pun) of paying for my family's health insurance, I know the cost.

My side of this is the government has even less of an idea about the costs but they'll make it up as they go along. I don't like the unknown. Now immediately it appears that I prefer the lessor of two evils and I guess one could make a case of that. What I really prefer is not seeing the government get it's greedy hands on billions of dollars with no oversight beyond their aisle mates.

For me it all falls back upon the age old question, what has government done efficiently with no waste that will stand up to the light of day. Medicare...nope...welfare...full of fraud...clunkers...subsidy and they still don't know how much tax money they've spent.

Edit:Forgot to mention all the disability checks that go out each month. Around here you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone on their way to cash those checks on the 1st. There is plenty of waste and fraud in this government program as well.

One of these days I'll wake up and see it from your perspective guys, it's just gonna take a whole nother bunch of honest folks in DC before I do.

wajobu
08-06-2009, 08:27 PM
Fair enough, you may criticize from experience. I just can't handle the fact that under the private enterprise competitive model my premiums have risen 240% in the last 9 years (checking pricing each year, but changing companies once) and they will rise another 24 to 32% next year (and we're, thank goodness, healthy). We pay more for less every year, and now the cost of healthcare will exceed my cost of housing every month.

Something is fundamentally wrong with this equation.

Grumpy
08-06-2009, 08:50 PM
Far as I'm concerned health care providers and insurance companies are worse then the thieving banks and wall street.

If the gov is going to do insurance then do it right. Everyone or no one !

Charles
08-06-2009, 09:50 PM
Far as I'm concerned health care providers and insurance companies are worse then the thieving banks and wall street.

If the gov is going to do insurance then do it right. Everyone or no one !

I agree. The same coverage for everyone, and that includes the politicians. Are we not considered to be equals in this country? As much as I hate socialism, I would be in favor of universal and EQUAL coverage for all Americans.

And I did say Americans. It's a private club, and my dues are paid up. It sucks, but the rest of the world's gonna have to take care of themselves...we can't afford it.

Chas

Sandy G
08-07-2009, 06:38 AM
You are a mean, hateful ol' Bestid...How DARE you to deny all those poor, downtrodden folks who braved the desert, Immigration thugs, & other assorted wahoos, just so they could come here & get their fair share of the pie in the Land of the Big PX ?!? Next thing, you'll be wantin' to kick 'em all out, make 'em go back home...Shame, shame, shame...(grin)

cabinover
08-07-2009, 06:56 AM
Fair enough, you may criticize from experience. I just can't handle the fact that under the private enterprise competitive model my premiums have risen 240% in the last 9 years (checking pricing each year, but changing companies once) and they will rise another 24 to 32% next year (and we're, thank goodness, healthy). We pay more for less every year, and now the cost of healthcare will exceed my cost of housing every month.

Something is fundamentally wrong with this equation.

I agree. Part of this cost can be directly attributed back to government, whether it's fed or state. I know in Vermont and I imagine in CT. as well there are only a handful of insurance companies allowed to sell insurance to me.

How can it be competitive when a handful of companies hold a monopoly between themselves at the bequest of local government? To me that would be like the fed telling JetBlue that it can't play here in the USA since we already have Delta, Southwest, and Continental.

Don't come in here saying you're gonna cut fares, uh-uh, we aren't having any of that foolishness.

I wish I knew the answer Walker, really I do. Somebody would kill me then though;)

merrylander
08-07-2009, 07:37 AM
The funny thing is that I received excellent care in Canada and they spend half of what we do here on health care.

Of course lobbying is illegal in Canada, maybe that tells you something.

Oh, just remembered another of Dr. No's lies; that the committee to be formed to study effective medications is going to deny you care. There was a case recently where one of the big drug companies spent a fortune pushing their expensive version of an ADD drug. It was actually less effective than the earlier (cheaper) drug and also had bad side effects.

Funny the Dr.No has no compunction about coming between a woman and her doctors.

cabinover
08-07-2009, 08:20 AM
Of course lobbying is illegal in Canada, maybe that tells you something.


That is a huge part of this country's problem if you ask me.

noonereal
08-07-2009, 11:05 AM
That is a huge part of this country's problem if you ask me.

B I N G O

(to be sung to the tune of Bingo was her name)

merrylander
08-07-2009, 11:38 AM
Now as I see it, and English is my mother tongue, the Constitution gives citizens the right to seek redress from the government. Redress according to the OED is a post facto function, the government must already have done something that you as a citizen feel was harmful to you. You do not get invited into Congress or the White House to write legislation.

With all this globalization can we honestly consider that Wall Mart or GE or Aetna Healthcare are 'citizens'? And since some lobbyista lobby on behalf of foreign governments would someone please tell me when Dubai became a citizen?

I am sorry but the Supremes really screwed up on this one - big time. If I had Gates' money I would take to the Court.

Between K Street and Wall Street, oh man . . .

noonereal
08-07-2009, 01:13 PM
Check out the guy leading the charge for the GOP against a national health care program. Now I'll admit that both parties are slimy, but starting with Clinton it has been kicked up a notch. We went from Carvell slim to Rove slim, to the GOP pulling this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwjcxyuUf5A&feature=player_embedded

Charles
08-07-2009, 03:34 PM
You are a mean, hateful ol' Bestid...How DARE you to deny all those poor, downtrodden folks who braved the desert, Immigration thugs, & other assorted wahoos, just so they could come here & get their fair share of the pie in the Land of the Big PX ?!? Next thing, you'll be wantin' to kick 'em all out, make 'em go back home...Shame, shame, shame...(grin)

Yup, I'm a one way sumbitch. Now that don't mean I won't help a feller out, but I wanna pick the feller I'm helpin'. I don't want some other one way sumbitch reachin' in my hip pocket and usin' my money fer helpin' sumbitches HE wants to help.

He can use his own damn money.

Chas

wajobu
08-07-2009, 03:39 PM
Funny thing is...now it's OK for there to be dissension amongst the ranks...whenever this occurred during the Bush Administration...oh, wait a minute...all of their Town Meetings consisted of invited guests only...so no problems there!

Anyway, during the Bush Administration any kind of dissension was portayed as unpatriotic. So I say that these clowns should be tried for sedition--that'll fix 'em.

:D

wajobu
08-07-2009, 03:43 PM
Rick Scott (Conservatives for Patient's Rights) is a fraud--he's the (I can't write it, but I can think it) clown that is leading this "revolt" on false pretenses regarding healthcare reform. He must be one of those guys that hangs out in the C Street Family Apartment (reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_(Christian_political_organization) ).

Sandy G
08-07-2009, 04:42 PM
Yup, I'm a one way sumbitch. Now that don't mean I won't help a feller out, but I wanna pick the feller I'm helpin'. I don't want some other one way sumbitch reachin' in my hip pocket and usin' my money fer helpin' sumbitches HE wants to help.

He can use his own damn money.

Chas

Oh, but yer Uncle Sugar & His Holiness, Barak the Firstest, are just makin' sure that you'll help out yer Fellow Man...An' if you think they be pickin' yer Pockets now, methinks you ain't seen NOTHIN' yet, Bubeleh...

merrylander
08-07-2009, 05:11 PM
Near as I recall it was McCain who wanted to give all those folks amnesty. Sorry chum but I did it the legal way so y'all cango back home and apply.

Charles
08-07-2009, 05:17 PM
Oh, but yer Uncle Sugar & His Holiness, Barak the Firstest, are just makin' sure that you'll help out yer Fellow Man...An' if you think they be pickin' yer Pockets now, methinks you ain't seen NOTHIN' yet, Bubeleh...

I reckon yer's as right as rain on thisin', Cousin Sandy. Ya know why I figger they's gonna pick my pocket...cause's they's a little sumpthin' in there that can git picked.

Here in Missouri, we call this stealin'. Course we's just a bunch of stupid peckerwoods, kinda like us'ins cracker cousins down there in Tennessee.

Reckon all that "shine" done made us go blind...cain't see the "big picture".

Chas

Charles
08-07-2009, 05:32 PM
Near as I recall it was McCain who wanted to give all those folks amnesty. Sorry chum but I did it the legal way so y'all cango back home and apply.

Couldn't have said it better myself, you cold hearted old fart.

Like Sonny Bono said when queried about illegal immigration.

"I thought it was illegal."

McCain was just sucking up to the Hispanic vote...and that's the kinda shit a politician would pull.

When I look at both parties, I wanna puke.

Chas

merrylander
08-08-2009, 08:41 AM
Never could figure out why we were stuck with a two party system, does not give a heck of a lot of choice, two wings of the same bird.

noonereal
08-08-2009, 08:46 AM
[QUOTE=Sandy G;3754] His Holiness, Barak the Firstest, QUOTE]

Good to see you have come to respect out president. :p

Charles
08-08-2009, 01:46 PM
Never could figure out why we were stuck with a two party system, does not give a heck of a lot of choice, two wings of the same bird.

Because the game's rigged?

Chas

noonereal
08-08-2009, 03:56 PM
Because the game's rigged?

Chas

Needs to be un-rigged.

Sandy G
08-08-2009, 03:57 PM
Yeah, "Heads I win, Tails you lose..."

noonereal
08-08-2009, 04:09 PM
Look at the bright side, it was a beautiful day today. ;)
(at least in NYC)

Charles
08-08-2009, 04:14 PM
Yeah, "Heads I win, Tails you lose..."

Hell, ya get better odds as that out there in Vegas.

And ya know them sharpies done rigged the game.

Chas

stereocuuple
08-08-2009, 10:12 PM
drug mfg. pledge $150,000,000 to support obama and the healthcare reform. now i know we are fucked

noonereal
08-09-2009, 05:49 AM
that is concern, that is similar amount given to Bush for the prescription benefit he attached to Medicare without regard for the tax payer.

merrylander
08-09-2009, 07:54 AM
Only $150 million, shoot they spent $300 million on Congress, if I was the President I would complain.

painter
08-09-2009, 08:48 AM
Fact not fiction "Folks"....penned by a Canadian.

http://www.buffalonews.com/367/story/758795.html#

Charles
08-09-2009, 09:09 AM
Only $150 million, shoot they spent $300 million on Congress, if I was the President I would complain.

The knuckle draggers I run with would call passing money like this out a "bribe"

But we're too stupid to understand how politics work.

Chas

merrylander
08-09-2009, 09:28 AM
Fact not fiction "Folks"....penned by a Canadian.

http://www.buffalonews.com/367/story/758795.html#


I wonder where they get these cases from, my sister in law complained of chest pains, her children took her to the hospital - I assume Brampton near Toronto, they examined her and the next day installed a pace maker. So where is the real situation? I know the provinces have been trying to get the federal government to provide all the money - usual deal with politicians, make the other guy do all the unpopular taxes.

Frex, I keep hearing about Canadians who come down here for treatment. So, until very recently the $CDN was about $0.72. Our hospitals and doctors are the world's most expensive. (They also manage to kill nearly 100,000 people a year with mistakes). How in heck can Canadians afford to come here. Even our own people are flying to New Zealand for hip replacement.

Something smells very fishy, and it ain't cod.

Twodogs
08-09-2009, 10:11 AM
The knuckle draggers I run with would call passing money like this out a "bribe"

But we're too stupid to understand how politics work.

Chas

The whole mess needs a good cleaning, and there's only one way I know of to get that done.

merrylander
08-09-2009, 10:55 AM
I think when they had control of the Funny Cookie Company and Martin allowed the media to get into the control of six or seven conglomerates we were doomed. I guess it did not occur that this was a two edged sword and it cuts both ways.

It used to be said "Believe only half of what you read in the papers." hell nowadays I believe none of it. The liars have the bully pulpit and run the country like their personal plantation.

Twodogs
08-09-2009, 11:35 AM
I think when they had control of the Funny Cookie Company and Martin allowed the media to get into the control of six or seven conglomerates we were doomed. I guess it did not occur that this was a two edged sword and it cuts both ways.

It used to be said "Believe only half of what you read in the papers." hell nowadays I believe none of it. The liars have the bully pulpit and run the country like their personal plantation.

Absolutely QFT:(

noonereal
08-09-2009, 11:38 AM
Absolutely QFT:(

seconded

JJIII
08-09-2009, 06:49 PM
Interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD_YOlUBoIk

wajobu
08-09-2009, 07:00 PM
Rep Price has his head in a dirty orifice. He is so quick to forget that HE has government healthcare paid for BY US. These guys don't want to talk, they want to complain and play the chronic sour grapes cards.

noonereal
08-10-2009, 05:22 AM
death panel? "evil" bill to bring health care to all Americans?

what a Dolt, she makes Bush look like a rocket scientist.

wajobu
08-10-2009, 07:40 AM
Wait, wait...I have an idea...for all the Reps and Sens who don't want govt healthcare, let's take away their plush govt plan and let them buy their insurance on the open market with their own money...I submit that they would soon change their tunes.

They're idiots.

cabinover
08-10-2009, 08:17 AM
Wait, wait...I have an idea...for all the Reps and Sens who don't want govt healthcare, let's take away their plush govt plan and let them buy their insurance on the open market with their own money...I submit that they would soon change their tunes.

They're idiots.

I have a better idea, let ALL of them from the President on down receive the same health care and plans that we do. At least then they'd be more inclined to think about the people's problems than their own pockets.

merrylander
08-10-2009, 08:20 AM
What, give up Cheney Care, never happen.

noonereal
08-10-2009, 08:58 AM
I have a better idea, let ALL of them from the President on down receive the same health care and plans that we do. At least then they'd be more inclined to think about the people's problems than their own pockets.

That would mean that 1 in 5 senators would receive no health care.
Yep, that might change their minds.

wajobu
08-10-2009, 12:19 PM
I have a better idea, let ALL of them from the President on down receive the same health care and plans that we do. At least then they'd be more inclined to think about the people's problems than their own pockets.

Even better...then we'll have some more money to pay off the National Debt :rolleyes: