Recovery is going great

[merrylander]

on K street, last year they spent 3.5 billion on bribery (er, lobbying). Probably most of it bail out funds, since $473 million came from finance, insurance and real estate. Another $240 million from big pharma and other health care products. Then there was $191 million from electric utilities and $170 million from business associations (chamberpot of coommerce no doubt). Then there was $147 million from oil and gas.

Yes indeedy we have the finest government money can buy so now you can see how Ryan's Path to Prosperity was bought.:rolleyes:

[CarlV]

Bob Schieffer sure gave Ryan a going over on Face The Nation this morning worthy of Tim Russert. When he wasn't dodging, spinning or waffling most questions put at him all he had to say is the same old crap he spews on the news clips, except he really came off as someone who hasn't a clue of what he was talking about, kinda like if it was me on TV. :D


Carl

[merrylander]

Well look at the man's bio, he has no training in ecomics, Daffy Duck could produce a better budget.

[noonereal]

Bob Schieffer sure gave Ryan a going over on Face The Nation this morning worthy of Tim Russert. When he wasn't dodging, spinning or waffling most questions put at him all he had to say is the same old crap he spews on the news clips, except he really came off as someone who hasn't a clue of what he was talking about, kinda like if it was me on TV. :D


Carl

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7363032n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

[CarlV]

Yep, good stuff and well worth watching, again even. :)


Carl

[BlueStreak]

Couldn't get the other link to work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F68XVlAjnSc

"...taxing the wealthy is raising taxes on small businesses....."?

".....raising the top tax rate on small businesses.............."?

Just what does he consider a "small business"? In my mind a "small business"
is the guy with a van that paints houses, or installs carpet. The dude that sells hot-dogs from a cart outside the laundromat is a "small business owner" as I see it. If THAT pays over $250k, I'm getting a hot dog cart.

I'm thinking the whole "small business" thing is a ruse. Little more than a tool the GOP uses to prove that they care about the "little guy".

Dave

[d-ray657]

Couldn't get the other link to work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F68XVlAjnSc

"...taxing the wealthy is raising taxes on small businesses....."?

".....raising the top tax rate on small businesses.............."?

Just what does he consider a "small business"?

Dave

Somehow I lost my post showing that those assertions are at best an exaggeration. Here are some resources showing the minimal effect that an increase in marginal tax rates would have on small business in general.

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/R41085_20100226.pdf

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jul/27/stephen-hayes/so-called-wealthy-are-actually-small-business-owne/

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/mar2009/sb20090326_784114.htm

http://www.businesspundit.com/small-business-and-marginal-tax-rates/

Regards,

D-Ray

[David Newman]

We should be cutting taxes across the board, not even considering raising them at this point.

[d-ray657]

We should be cutting taxes across the board, not even considering raising them at this point.

Haven't we seen enough evidence to conclusively prove that supply-side economics doesn't work?

Regards,

D-Ray

[bhunter]

We should be cutting taxes across the board, not even considering raising them at this point.

I concur. Our government is much too large already, but I realize in your MMT position they'd need to be raised only with the spectre of inflation.

[bhunter]

Well look at the man's bio, he has no training in ecomics, Daffy Duck could produce a better budget.

He does have a B.A. in economics and political science from Miami University of Ohio. That said, I've known lots of PHDs in economics that couldn't manage a lemonade stand effectively. Economic turns into a theoretical mathematical storm quickly as you advance higher in academia. Correlating the mathematics with applied action is an entirely different endeavor that requires presumptions that may or may not be congruent with reality.

[noonereal]

He does have a B.A. in economics and political science from Miami University of Ohio. That said, I've known lots of PHDs in economics that couldn't manage a lemonade stand effectively. Economic turns into a theoretical mathematical storm quickly as you advance higher in academia. Correlating the mathematics with applied action is an entirely different endeavor that requires presumptions that may or may not be congruent with reality.

yep, like piss on theory, I mean trickle down theory.

[merrylander]

I concur. Our government is much too large already, but I realize in your MMT position they'd need to be raised only with the spectre of inflation.

I believe if you were to check on the number of public employees in the federal government it compares favourably with other industrialized nations.

You want cuts, how about the two (obsolete) aircraft carriers currently under construction? Or the F-35 strike fighter? Or some of the 500 military bases around the world?:rolleyes:

[David Newman]

How about stopping the war on drugs and work on something useful?

[noonereal]

How about stopping the war on drugs and work on something useful?

bingo!

[whell]

Haven't we seen enough evidence to conclusively prove that supply-side economics doesn't work?

Regards,

D-Ray

Cutting taxes does increase the flow of revenue to the Treasury. Unfortunately, the increased revenue also increases the appetite for politicians to spend. I seem to recall Clinton having this issue with the left wing of his party at the time. Remember the so called Peace Dividend?

[JonL]

Cutting taxes does increase the flow of revenue to the Treasury. Unfortunately, the increased revenue also increases the appetite for politicians to spend. I seem to recall Clinton having this issue with the left wing of his party at the time. Remember the so called Peace Dividend?

I also remember the only budget surpluses that have happened in my lifetime. It wasn't Clinton who spent it all and then some.

[flacaltenn]

BlueStreak:
Go for that cart..

The dude that sells hot-dogs from a cart outside the laundromat is a "small business owner" as I see it. If THAT pays over $250k, I'm getting a hot dog cart.


The hotdog guy might GROSS $200K per year and only net $20K. In NYC, probably a net of $15K. The deal is that me and the other anti-tax-the-rich folks don't trust the govt to define GROSS or NET or RICH.. Do YOU??? The class warriors appear to be close to financially illiterate. If his bun costs double because we're burning our grain for fuel, does he STILL get to have a 10% margin? Or are you gonna windfall profit tax the heck out of him?

[d-ray657]

Cutting taxes does increase the flow of revenue to the Treasury.

Has this been true for any sustained period, particularly when taking inflation into account? Can you point to evidence?

Regards,

D-Ray

[noonereal]

Has this been true for any sustained period, particularly when taking inflation into account? Can you point to evidence?

Regards,

D-Ray

lol, this should be good

expect many long links which deal with theory

whell's approach is very predictable

[noonereal]

BlueStreak:
Go for that cart..



The hotdog guy might GROSS $200K per year and only net $20K. In NYC, probably a net of $15K. The deal is that me and the other anti-tax-the-rich folks don't trust the govt to define GROSS or NET or RICH.. Do YOU??? The class warriors appear to be close to financially illiterate. If his bun costs double because we're burning our grain for fuel, does he STILL get to have a 10% margin? Or are you gonna windfall profit tax the heck out of him?

lol, at $200,000 he would lose money, a lot in NYC.
I know in Westchester it costs this to "rent a spot" in front of WalMart to sell your hot dogs from.

[flacaltenn]

NoOneReal:

I hope BlueStreak finds out the cold hard financial realities of that cart business BEFORE he succumbs to the lure of "big cash"...

Point is that small business really does take it on the chin when their earnings are compared to "rich individuals". It may not be those cart vendors, but this country is built on (way too many imho) franchise owners who DO get dinged "as rich". And if they NET $200K, they deserve it.

You know the dramatic effect of being the last man to lose his life in a war that's ending? That's kinda like it is to be on the very margin of the tax bracket. Make $1 more and you lose a month's income to taxes. A lot of small business owners are on that cliff.

[d-ray657]

NoOneReal:

I hope BlueStreak finds out the cold hard financial realities of that cart business BEFORE he succumbs to the lure of "big cash"...

Point is that small business really does take it on the chin when their earnings are compared to "rich individuals". It may not be those cart vendors, but this country is built on (way too many imho) franchise owners who DO get dinged "as rich". And if they NET $200K, they deserve it.

You know the dramatic effect of being the last man to lose his life in a war that's ending? That's kinda like it is to be on the very margin of the tax bracket. Make $1 more and you lose a month's income to taxes. A lot of small business owners are on that cliff.

C'mon, you know better than that. The tax brackets apply to marginal income. Assuming that he has no deductions or credits, dollar 200,001 gets taxed at 35%, the dollars below that are taxed at anywhere from 10% to 32%. The one dollar over doesn't apply a higher rate to the previous earnings. And, by the way, once he got to the $106K mark, his taxes went down by 15% because he was no longer required to pay payroll tax on himself (oh, and he gets a $7.3k tax deduction for his payroll taxes up to that point). Therefore, he earned nearly $100K at a lower rate before he got hit with a 3% increase in the marginal rate. My heart bleeds for that poor sucker.:rolleyes:

Regards,

D-Ray

[noonereal]

C'mon, you know better than that. The tax brackets apply to marginal income. Assuming that he has no deductions or credits, dollar 200,001 gets taxed at 35%, the dollars below that are taxed at anywhere from 10% to 32%. The one dollar over doesn't apply a higher rate to the previous earnings. And, by the way, once he got to the $106K mark, his taxes went down by 15% because he was no longer required to pay payroll tax on himself (oh, and he gets a $7.3k tax deduction for his payroll taxes up to that point). Therefore, he earned nearly $100K at a lower rate before he got hit with a 3% increase in the marginal rate. My heart bleeds for that poor sucker.:rolleyes:

Regards,

D-Ray

excellent breakdown

[flacaltenn]

Got me D-Ray..

I was writing a business proposal and reading Fed turkey regs and chasing coyotes out of the yard..

I'm in time-out now..

[d-ray657]

Got me D-Ray..

I was writing a business proposal and reading Fed turkey regs and chasing coyotes out of the yard..

I'm in time-out now..

Gotta respect you for fessing up. I was particularly aware of the payroll tax issue after doing my son's taxes for him. He was paid with a 1099-misc for some part-time work, so I had just read the rules on self-employment tax. If he ever gets to the point where he is even close to maxing out on the self-employment tax, I'll tell him to hire an accountant.

BTW, you must be dedicated to your position to subject yourself to reading turkey regs.:D

Did you hear the part of the State of the Union address when Obama mentioned that the regulation of salmon comes under two separate departments, and more agencies than that. He has assigned staff to find redundant and outdated regulations to eliminate. That's a task that will probably take well into his second term.:cool:

Regards,

D-Ray

[flacaltenn]

I'm still in time-out..

But I'm sure those salmon feel REALLY secure knowing that there's a separate dept for salt-water and fresh-water protection.. That doesn't count the input and good intentions from the BLM, Forestry, Mining, Corps of Engineers and the Commerce people.. Obama better look under the hood there for salmon programs as well.

I know I speak for the salmon when I say ... "which way to a safe salmon farm?"

[merrylander]

NoOneReal:

I hope BlueStreak finds out the cold hard financial realities of that cart business BEFORE he succumbs to the lure of "big cash"...

Point is that small business really does take it on the chin when their earnings are compared to "rich individuals". It may not be those cart vendors, but this country is built on (way too many imho) franchise owners who DO get dinged "as rich". And if they NET $200K, they deserve it.

You know the dramatic effect of being the last man to lose his life in a war that's ending? That's kinda like it is to be on the very margin of the tax bracket. Make $1 more and you lose a month's income to taxes. A lot of small business owners are on that cliff.


I worked for a 'small business' when I first came down here and I would really like to knw what you are smoking - Columbia Gold perchance?:rolleyes:

[merrylander]

I'm still in time-out..

But I'm sure those salmon feel REALLY secure knowing that there's a separate dept for salt-water and fresh-water protection.. That doesn't count the input and good intentions from the BLM, Forestry, Mining, Corps of Engineers and the Commerce people.. Obama better look under the hood there for salmon programs as well.

I know I speak for the salmon when I say ... "which way to a safe salmon farm?"

Yeah sure, just another example of man fucking with nature -pardon my French, but I have had this crap up to here.

[merrylander]

Oh well, just had another raise $CDN = $1.05 US:D

[noonereal]

Oh well, just had another raise $CDN = $1.05 US:D

oh my, I forgot about that

if one gets SS and wants to retire in Canada (to be with the sane in their old age) they will see their american dollars become worthless. :(

[merrylander]

oh my, I forgot about that

if one gets SS and wants to retire in Canada (to be with the sane in their old age) they will see their american dollars become worthless. :(

That possibility does exist. However, since the U.S. is Canada's biggest trading partner (hell, the Province of Ontario is the U.S.' biggest trading partner} the Bank of Canada would likely intervene to keep the spread within reason.