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Fast_Eddie
05-04-2011, 05:25 PM
I didn't see this coming. No, not in a million years. It seems Glenn Beck doesn't believe Osama bin Laden is really dead.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/glenn-beck-bin-laden

Well that's shocking. I would like to see what happened if the President held a press conference and announced the sky is blue and grass is green. Beck would be on the air "uncovering" the "truth" that George Soros has just convinced us that the sky is blue. "I have historical evidence that shows the color of the sky in the 1830s was generally accepted to be yellow! But George Soros has coopted yellow and convinced us all that we should call that color blue." And you know what, the next day there would be a million people calling blue yellow.

BlueStreak
05-04-2011, 11:41 PM
Beck is an ass.

Dave

finnbow
05-05-2011, 08:24 AM
I don't know if this is any worse than Hannity ranting and raving for an hour last night against the decision to offer a Muslim prayer before dumping OBL's body overboard or release a picture of the cadaver. He twisting himself in knots criticizing Obama and trying to claim all credit for Bush and torture.

BlueStreak
05-05-2011, 11:14 AM
This says it pretty well,

Dave

Fast_Eddie
05-05-2011, 11:30 AM
Hey now, Bush did everything he could to find bin Laden.

http://www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/bush-closed-unit-to-hunt-down-bin-laden-in-2005/1498/

piece-itpete
05-05-2011, 11:33 AM
Oh brother.

Pete

finnbow
05-05-2011, 12:04 PM
"Obama has succeeded as Commander in Chief where Bush was a miserable failure; that’s the truth and no amount of Republican spin will change it."

QFT

BlueStreak
05-05-2011, 12:08 PM
"Obama has succeeded as Commander in Chief where Bush was a miserable failure; that’s the truth and no amount of Republican spin will change it."

QFT

Amen.

Dave

piece-itpete
05-05-2011, 12:23 PM
I'm going to start posting links from Rush.

Pete

finnbow
05-05-2011, 12:24 PM
I'm going to start posting links from Rush.

Pete

Have at it. But they must be truthful like the one above. That should take you a while.;)

piece-itpete
05-05-2011, 12:30 PM
LMAO!

Pete

BlueStreak
05-11-2011, 12:06 AM
Anyone see Rumsfeld yesterday saying "Waterboarding had nothing to do with it."? Then he went on to make the comment that the assertion that torture led to bin Ladens death makes no sense. Because the people we have detained have been isolated from al Qaeda and the outside world for far too long. "They probably knew less about where bin Laden was than we did. How could they?"

I think he's right.

Dave

JonL
05-11-2011, 12:09 AM
One of the things he knows he doesn't know about things they don't know but we know. I agree. He's probably right.

Big_Bill
01-05-2012, 07:58 PM
"Obama has succeeded as Commander in Chief where Bush was a miserable failure; that’s the truth and no amount of Republican spin will change it."

QFT


finnbow,

You are so easily impressed. On dead enemy soldier is is not a military victory.
We have lost 1,475 soldiers in Afghanistan, against rag tag zealots.

And Obama has handled this just as he has dealt with everything else, no proof !

Our military and the CIA, NSA has perhaps eliminated a major player in the Afganastan War, Obama just happened to still be in office.

Now if Obama would have found Asama Bin Laden as he played a round of golf, and killed him with his 9 iron, then he would be a hero .

Bill

d-ray657
01-05-2012, 08:00 PM
finnbow,

You are so easily impressed. On dead enemy soldier is is not a military victory.
We have lost 1,475 soldiers in Afghanistan, against rag tag zealots.

And Obama has handled this just as he has dealt with everything else, no proof !

Our military and the CIA, NSA has perhaps eliminated a major player in the Afganastan War, Obama just happened to still be in office.

Now if Obama would have found Asama Bin Laden as he played a round of golf, and killed him with his 9 iron, then he would be a hero .

Bill

I see you've embraced some of the Fox talking points.

Regards,

D-Ray

Charles
01-05-2012, 08:21 PM
I see you've embraced some of the Fox talking points.

Regards,

D-Ray

He's a master at leading from behind.

1116

Chas

Bigerik
01-05-2012, 08:32 PM
finnbow,

You are so easily impressed. On dead enemy soldier is is not a military victory.
We have lost 1,475 soldiers in Afghanistan, against rag tag zealots.

And Obama has handled this just as he has dealt with everything else, no proof !

Our military and the CIA, NSA has perhaps eliminated a major player in the Afganastan War, Obama just happened to still be in office.

Now if Obama would have found Asama Bin Laden as he played a round of golf, and killed him with his 9 iron, then he would be a hero .

Bill

These would be the same rag-tag zealots who fought the Soviet Army to a standstill.

neophyte
01-05-2012, 09:06 PM
These would be the same rag-tag zealots who fought the Soviet Army to a standstill.

Look,this is a Glenn Beck thread. Don't go getting all rational and quoting history that hasn't been revised for American public consumption, it just wouldn't do.

I miss seeing Glenn's show. I almost always rolled the DVR and watched later when I could really enjoy it. I usually made popcorn..the good stuff. Garlic butter, fresh grated parm cheese, and sea salt. Nothing but the best for reveling in the babbling of that nut job. I should look around the net for reruns.

finnbow
01-05-2012, 09:12 PM
finnbow,

You are so easily impressed.

I was quoting the last sentence in a link posted above mine.
http://www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/bush-closed-unit-to-hunt-down-bin-laden-in-2005/1498/

I don't really feel like re-litigating this one, other than to say I still think it was disgraceful how the GOP talking heads tried to claim credit for Dubya for OBL's demise.

BlueStreak
01-05-2012, 09:31 PM
finnbow,

You are so easily impressed. On dead enemy soldier is is not a military victory.
We have lost 1,475 soldiers in Afghanistan, against rag tag zealots.

And Obama has handled this just as he has dealt with everything else, no proof !

Our military and the CIA, NSA has perhaps eliminated a major player in the Afganastan War, Obama just happened to still be in office.

Now if Obama would have found Asama Bin Laden as he played a round of golf, and killed him with his 9 iron, then he would be a hero .

Bill

"We have lost 1,475 soldiers in Afghanistan, against rag tag zealots."

Glad to see you realize and acknowledge how sad and pathetic that fact really is. Have you taken anytime to consider why that debacle has been dragged out for so long?

As to the rest of your absurd point;

Was it Reagan that rescued the hostages?
Or single handedly defeated the Soviet Union?

Dave

finnbow
01-05-2012, 09:32 PM
Yep. Those ragtag zealots have fought us to a draw in what is now America's longest war.:(

Rex E.
01-05-2012, 10:10 PM
These would be the same rag-tag zealots who fought the Soviet Army to a standstill.

With almost limitless U.S. cash, training and weapons, right? (and who knows what other classified things)

Yep. Those ragtag zealots have fought us to a draw in what is now America's longest war.:(

Only cuz we don't have the stones to take care of business like we should. WWPT, what would Patton do? :D

Bigerik
01-05-2012, 10:44 PM
Yeah, but they seem to be doing fine without the US money also.

Say what you will about them, but those boys have balls.

Rex E.
01-05-2012, 10:59 PM
Yeah, but they seem to be doing fine without the US money also.

Say what you will about them, but those boys have balls.

Sure they do, enough to hide in schools and churches. Shame we didn't have the same balls, enough to level those churches and schools. Things might be very different then, eh?

Big_Bill
01-06-2012, 12:47 AM
With almost limitless U.S. cash, training and weapons, right? (and who knows what other classified things)



Only cuz we don't have the stones to take care of business like we should. WWPT, what would Patton do? :D


Well Rex,

Patton did not believe in paying for the same real estate twice !

And that is the mistake we made in Vietnam and now again in Afghanistan :(

These people are using the same tactics that we used during the Revolutionary War, hit and run.

If you do not, or can not hold the territory that you have taken, you will have to pay many times for that territory, as the enemy will move back in as soon as possible.

We had a hill in Vietnam that we took three times, and since we did not hold the surrounding area we had to leave as the enemy regrouped. If we did stay they would have over run us at night inflicting very heavy casualties.

Taking a town and moving back to a base camp without securing the town is stupid. If you now that you cannot hold the town don't take it until you can.

And yes, the VC and the Zealots both use the civilian populations for cover, preventing air and artillery support.

And the worse thing that can be allowed is to have a politician decide how to fight the war !!!!! Especially one with no military background or one like Wrong Way Kerry.

Bill

piece-itpete
01-06-2012, 07:47 AM
Rex, excellent!

Pete

neophyte
01-06-2012, 08:23 AM
what would Patton do?


If Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan (among other great invaders down through history) couldn't make it stick, there's no reason or basis to think Patton would do more than scratch the surface before leaving with his tail tucked, just like others far greater than him.

Big_Bill
01-06-2012, 11:07 AM
George was a great student of military history. He was very aware of the other greats failures and mistakes.

Genghis was my very favorite General, he knew how to wage a war. Demand surrender, and if refused, destroy the enemy, totally ! No fooling around with Genghis !

And Genghis left nothing behind him unconquered, no one to harass his flanks or rear supply lines. What a guy !

And I believe George showed this same tenacity in the European Conflict, World War the second.

As all that underestimated him found, you just don't mess with George !

Bill

Dondilion
01-06-2012, 12:24 PM
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan plains

And the women come out to cut up what remains,

Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains

An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.

R. Kipling

neophyte
01-06-2012, 12:48 PM
George was a great student of military history. He was very aware of the other greats failures and mistakes.

Genghis was my very favorite General, he knew how to wage a war. Demand surrender, and if refused, destroy the enemy, totally ! No fooling around with Genghis !

And Genghis left nothing behind him unconquered, no one to harass his flanks or rear supply lines. What a guy !

And I believe George showed this same tenacity in the European Conflict, World War the second.

As all that underestimated him found, you just don't mess with George !

Bill

do you actually find war that glorious an endeavor? most unsettling.

I get that Patton is a rah rah figure from WW2 and all that for America, but, let's not forget a few things from the time he led the 3rd Army on all those conquests. Germany was a depleted and defeated entity, cornered and making their last stand against a far fresher foe with overwhelming numbers, abundant supplies and mobility, and air superiority so absolute they could darken the skies with all manners of attack aircraft in passable weather. Now, add in the small matter of a few million very pissed off and well outfitted Russians dropping the hammer on them from the rear, and I believe you have what could be called an overwhelming tactical advantage. He did good, but, he was well positioned to do so. Had Germany not been under such pressure from the rear guard action, who knows how long and costly the assault from the west would have been. Thankfully, we will never know.

piece-itpete
01-06-2012, 12:59 PM
.... Thankfully, we will never know.

Hear hear, I'll drink to that!

And another, to Hitler's stupidity. Master race my ass. (clink)

Pete

Big_Bill
01-06-2012, 02:12 PM
neophyte, unsettling for who ?

If not for good men being willing and able to fight wars, we would still be singing Hail to the Queen ! Or speaking German and hailing our Fuhrer ! Or bowing very low to our Japanese King Hirohito !

All that it takes for Evil to Exist, is for Good Men to do NOTHING !!!!

If Dwight had not been such a political hack, Patton, given the supplies, could have shortened the war appreciably.

And I do not know where you read your account of WW II, but Hitler was planing to invade England just prior to the Normandy Invasion. And by the grace of God, we held the ground and moved forward. Then Patton and Montgomery fought their way up from Sicily through Italy fighting the entrenched German Armies back into France. I can't remember anyone saying that "Germany was a depleted and defeated entity,: until they lost their final attack form, I believe the Arden Valley.

We basically won WWII due to Hitlers stupidity, he refused to listen to his Generals, and wanted to make every decision himself, or with the aid of fortune tellers.

Are you French or maybe Russian ?

Bill

neophyte
01-06-2012, 02:32 PM
neophyte, unsettling for who ?

If not for good men being willing and able to fight wars, we would still be singing Hail to the Queen ! Or speaking German and hailing our Fuhrer ! Or bowing very low to our Japanese King Hirohito !

All that it takes for Evil to Exist, is for Good Men to do NOTHING !!!!

If Dwight had not been such a political hack, Patton, given the supplies, could have shortened the war appreciably.

And I do not know where you read your account of WW II, but Hitler was planing to invade England just prior to the Normandy Invasion. And by the grace of God, we held the ground and moved forward. Then Patton and Montgomery fought their way up from Sicily through Italy fighting the entrenched German Armies back into France. I can't remember anyone saying that "Germany was a depleted and defeated entity,: until they lost their final attack form, I believe the Arden Valley.

We basically won WWII due to Hitlers stupidity, he refused to listen to his Generals, and wanted to make every decision himself, or with the aid of fortune tellers.

Are you French or maybe Russian ?

Bill

I'm just as much an American as you are, just not nearly as brainwashed. I get my info from accurate historical accounts, not Hollywood produced propaganda that still seems to get the gullible all lathered up and slobbering over the "glory" of it all.

Apparently you aren't familiar enough with Patton's career to know when, where, and how he came to lead the 3rd Army, which if you read my last post, is what I referenced.

I got the "grace" of your "god" swingin'. Where was he when 6 million jews were being systematically slaughtered?

BlueStreak
01-06-2012, 03:25 PM
With almost limitless U.S. cash, training and weapons, right? (and who knows what other classified things)
:D

Funny how "U.S. cash" becomes "unlimited" when it comes to committing acts of beligerance, but there is no money to provide healthcare benefits for our elderly......

Must be one of those "Christian Values" we're always hearing about.:rolleyes:

Dave

BlueStreak
01-06-2012, 03:26 PM
I'm just as much an American as you are, just not nearly as brainwashed. I get my info from accurate historical accounts, not Hollywood produced propaganda that still seems to get the gullible all lathered up and slobbering over the "glory" of it all.

Apparently you aren't familiar enough with Patton's career to know when, where, and how he came to lead the 3rd Army, which if you read my last post, is what I referenced.

I got the "grace" of your "god" swingin'. Where was he when 6 million jews were being systematically slaughtered?

So, it's not just me? You're getting that vibe too?

Dave

BlueStreak
01-06-2012, 03:32 PM
do you actually find war that glorious an endeavor? most unsettling.

I get that Patton is a rah rah figure from WW2 and all that for America, but, let's not forget a few things from the time he led the 3rd Army on all those conquests. Germany was a depleted and defeated entity, cornered and making their last stand against a far fresher foe with overwhelming numbers, abundant supplies and mobility, and air superiority so absolute they could darken the skies with all manners of attack aircraft in passable weather. Now, add in the small matter of a few million very pissed off and well outfitted Russians dropping the hammer on them from the rear, and I believe you have what could be called an overwhelming tactical advantage. He did good, but, he was well positioned to do so. Had Germany not been under such pressure from the rear guard action, who knows how long and costly the assault from the west would have been. Thankfully, we will never know.

Thank you.

Dave

Bigerik
01-06-2012, 06:32 PM
Germany hadn't been in a position to invade Britain for years before Normandie. Depending on how you look at it, the war was over after either Stalingrad or Kursk. The good divisions were mostly up against the Soviet bastards. Once they were tired and burned out, they were sent to France to recuperate and rebuild.

And let's not give the Russians too much credit. The overwhelming material superiority they had was a direct result of all the supplies sent by the allies to support them. Without that, they likely would have fought to a long, drawn out stalemate.

Regardless, Normandy was a pretty near thing. A little luck on the part of the Germans, and things could have gone very differently.

neophyte
01-06-2012, 08:43 PM
Germany hadn't been in a position to invade Britain for years before Normandie. Depending on how you look at it, the war was over after either Stalingrad or Kursk. The good divisions were mostly up against the Soviet bastards. Once they were tired and burned out, they were sent to France to recuperate and rebuild.

And let's not give the Russians too much credit. The overwhelming material superiority they had was a direct result of all the supplies sent by the allies to support them. Without that, they likely would have fought to a long, drawn out stalemate.

Regardless, Normandy was a pretty near thing. A little luck on the part of the Germans, and things could have gone very differently.

"Soviet bastards", eh? In the more than two years that elapsed between when Roosevelt promised Molotov that a second, western front would be opened in France until D Day actually happened, Russia was invaded, raped and ravaged while other Allied forces exercised the option to take a measured invasion approach through North Africa, Sicily, Italy etc. The overwhelming majority of violent conflict of WW2 in Europe took place on Russian soil during this period. Lend Lease did provide considerable material support of the Soviet forces, but the more than 23 million war deaths they suffered cannot be trivialized, even by our revisionist history. The casualties of war suffered by Great Britain and the USA combined did not amount to even 4% of their total deaths.

Who were the real "bastards" in the deal?

Bigerik
01-06-2012, 08:49 PM
The Russian bastards were the ones who invaded my parents home country of Estonia, did mass deportations of people to Siberia, and amongst other things,killed my great grandfather as well as many other family members, for no crimes other than being reasonably successful in life.

I guess you forget that the second world war actually began with the nigh onto simultaneous invasions of eastern Europe by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union was just as bad, if not worse, than Nazi Germany. THe Nazis were amateurs in mass killings compared to the Soviets. Two sides of the same coin.

Bigerik
01-06-2012, 08:53 PM
And the infamous picture of German and Soviet troops meeting following the division of Poland.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oIAhQMTG-dU/S6sSllGU3NI/AAAAAAAADiM/jI7ctkm2nOo/s1600/german-army-russian-army-poland-1939-ww2-second-world-war-011.jpg

neophyte
01-06-2012, 09:00 PM
Fair enough. I thought you were speaking from the patently paranoid American perspective regarding the former Soviet Union. They were most certainly not a bunch of saints (an interesting choice of words for an atheist, eh) themselves. They were a murderous and treacherous bunch, but, their mistrust of their "allies" was well founded.

Dondilion
01-07-2012, 08:44 AM
The Russians were responsible for approximately 70% of Germany's casualty. :eek:

Charles
01-07-2012, 08:54 AM
The Russians were responsible for approximately 70% of Germany's casualty. :eek:

Yeah, and it worked out pretty good for us.

Reckon there's any way the CIA could stir up a little pissing contest between Russia and China?

Chas

Dondilion
01-07-2012, 09:02 AM
And the infamous picture of German and Soviet troops meeting following the division of Poland.


This provided the Russians with breathing space and time. The Germans were essentially hard core anti communists and Molotov more than anyone else knew that they were come coming to get Russia.

Moreover Britain and France had previously failed to join the Russians in an anti-Nazi alliance.

Dondilion
01-07-2012, 09:37 AM
Yeah, and it worked out pretty good for us.

Reckon there's any way the CIA could stir up a little pissing contest between Russia and China?

Chas

That is very difficult. The Chinese are wary of USA moves and seriously needs Russia's immense raw material and energy supplies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/07/world/asia/chinese-news-agency-xinhua-warns-us-against-militarism.html?_r=1&ref=china

Zeke
01-07-2012, 10:48 AM
Only cuz we don't have the stones to take care of business like we should. WWPT, what would Patton do? :D

Recommend staying out of land wars in Asia? :confused:

BlueStreak
01-07-2012, 04:39 PM
Recommend staying out of land wars in Asia? :confused:

Uh......BAM!:p

Dave