Don't need to tell anyone but

[Grumpy]

This economy sucks ass !

[wintermuted]

Tell me about it! I'm out on my ass this week from the second retail management job in five five months due to my stores closing out from underneath me.

I refuse to acknowledge that either is in any way my fault! :cool:

[RichF]

Yep. Orders are down at my plant. Waaaay down. Right now we should be running 14 lines 24/7. We usually ramp up in March and go balls out through September. (We make pvc and composite fence, rail, and deck)
We have been running 5 or 6 lines, and the plant manager, HR manager, and dept heads have been having some pretty suspicious looking secret meetings as of late up in the large conference room. I'm starting to get a little bit worried that this just might be our last season.

[Twodogs]

Things are looking up just a little for Kansas, now that Kathleen is gone. Apparently the new Guv (name escapes me) is approving one new coal fired plant, and as soon as Roberts is in in two years (the Dems have no bench here), the second will get the go ahead. We also got some good news from GM as far as manufacturing of one of the Buick models (Lucerne I think) goes. The Fairfax plant will not have the exteneded shutdown this summer, and will instead, work two extra weeks, that would be a normal shutdown. I guess as some plants get bad news, others will take up slack. It still looks like a mighty long road nationally though.:(

[kretinus]

GM is headed for bankruptcy, read the financials, even their execs are dumping the stock.

The unemployment rate in Kansas has been rising steadily since July last year and continues to rise right through the end of the first quarter and beyond.

The problem here is people are looking for the trun around when the fact is we haven't even hit bottom.

The next real estate bubble is coming apart in the commercial sector, foreclosures are still rising, bankruptcies are still climbing and even strong companies are showing signs of cracking at the seams.

And we haven't actually even seen the effects of the house of credit cards our economy was fueled by to it's full extent.

[Grumpy]

Things are looking up just a little for Kansas, now that Kathleen is gone. Apparently the new Guv (name escapes me) is approving one new coal fired plant, and as soon as Roberts is in in two years (the Dems have no bench here), the second will get the go ahead. We also got some good news from GM as far as manufacturing of one of the Buick models (Lucerne I think) goes. The Fairfax plant will not have the exteneded shutdown this summer, and will instead, work two extra weeks, that would be a normal shutdown. I guess as some plants get bad news, others will take up slack. It still looks like a mighty long road nationally though.:(

I thought the new administration was frowning upon new coal plants.

[kretinus]

I think he's talking governors.

[Negotiableterms]

It's a cycle, like it is every time this crap happens. It's the only way to clear out the dead wood in lots of industries and on Wall Street. The idiots that started the recession by floating derivatives are being shunted aside, and a giant needed correction is occurring.

All that said, it sucks to be us right now.

[kretinus]

It's a cycle, like it is every time this crap happens. It's the only way to clear out the dead wood in lots of industries and on Wall Street. The idiots that started the recession by floating derivatives are being shunted aside, and a giant needed correction is occurring.

All that said, it sucks to be us right now.

This cycle is different from past ones. Thisn't isn't a correction in the classical sense, this is a whole different ball game. No offense but most in your industry didn;t seem to realize there was a recession until it slapped them in the face.

I don't inherently include you in that group, but there seems to be a cognitive disconnect out there, one group says we're seeing signs of recovery based on ambiguous standards at best when the reality I see in the job markets say differently, the housing markets say differently, the credit markets say differently and the stock market lost touch with reality altogether awhile ago.

[merrylander]

I disagree that there has been correction, the sub-primates are still offering funny money mortgages. What the investment banks did (and it was not just AIG) with their derivatives and tranches was what pulled the whole thing down around our heads, yet no one (other than Bernie) is in jail.

Our whole business sector needs a good stiff kick in the arse. No one seems to find it odd that 'the most powerfull man in the free world' gets what $800,000 a year, used to be $400,000. Meanwhile the head of Bof A gets $10,000,000 and he is a piker compared to some. Nowhere else in the world is the salary differential so great, CEOs get 300 times and more than the average worker.

I submit to you that there is no man or woman in this world worth more than $800,000 per year and there are damn few of them.

We used to be a democratic republic but now we are more like the Balkan States of America where the Jack System is the politics of the land.

[simi]

I can't believe with all the talk about how jobs will be created, the admins are pushing the car companies to close dealerships, putting people out of work, and they are also looking at closing down manufacture of the C-17... between those two industries, and the amount of work they are talking about taking away... WOAH.. it's gonna get worse ya'll...

[Twodogs]

GM is headed for bankruptcy, read the financials, even their execs are dumping the stock.

The unemployment rate in Kansas has been rising steadily since July last year and continues to rise right through the end of the first quarter and beyond.

The problem here is people are looking for the turn around when the fact is we haven't even hit bottom.

The next real estate bubble is coming apart in the commercial sector, foreclosures are still rising, bankruptcies are still climbing and even strong companies are showing signs of cracking at the seams.

And we haven't actually even seen the effects of the house of credit cards our economy was fueled by to it's full extent.


Yes, GM is heading for bankruptcy, but that doesn't mean they are going to stop building cars.

Kansas still has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. There is absolutely NO shortage of jobs in the area I live in (near Kansas City). I do not know a single person in this community that wants to work, and can find none.

I agree completely that there is a longer harder road to be trod, before any "real" turnaround occurs.

As for real estate, there have been some foreclosures in the area. These have nearly all been effects of the old ARM scam. Young couples who overbought, thinking they would be able to swing a higher payment, but in reality could not. My wife works in the real estate field, and has helped many of these young folks keep their houses, or do short sales. The banks (around here at least), have started to negotiate a little more as time goes on, and foreclosed properties fall into disrepair and ruin.

The credit card thing is just a mess. The only opinion I have on that, is don't use one unless you pay it off every time the bill comes.

[Ozmoid]

Nowhere else in the world is the salary differential so great, CEOs get 300 times and more than the average worker.

I submit to you that there is no man or woman in this world worth more than $800,000 per year and there are damn few of them.

Hear Hear!

[merrylander]

Re credit cards we pay for everything with Amex because we get award points and use them to get free meat. It started because the local supremarket called one day and said they had lost our check. Put a stop payment on that one and even drove over and gave them a new one.

About two weeks later as my wife was about to pay for some groceries the clerk calls over the manager who loudly tells her our checks are no good. After much calling and talking to various cretins I finally discovered that they had 'found' the lost check and tried to cash it - of course the bank refused.

It finally got straightened out but we decided that if they did not want our checks then they effing well would not get them. BTW, the card is paid in full every month and if Amex tries to dick with us they get told we will cancel the card, boy does that ever make them sit up and take notice.

Just had a letter from Visa telling us there are all sorts of new charges but we only have Visa for merchants who refuse Amex.

[OvenMaster]

This "correction" would have started -- and finished -- a lot sooner if there hadn't been a crapload of non-existent future tax dollars given to all the criminals running the shell game they call American banks. All these bailouts are doing is prolonging the inevitable, IMHO.

I saw a headline and couldn't believe it:

"Obama Says Debt Load 'Unsustainable'; Warns of skyrocketing interest rates..."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJsSb4qtILhg&refer=worldwide

If our Fearless Leader doesn't want deficit spending, then why on earth is he DOING it?!

/rant

[Twodogs]

This "correction" would have started -- and finished -- a lot sooner if there hadn't been a crapload of non-existent future tax dollars given to all the criminals running the shell game they call American banks. All these bailouts are doing is prolonging the inevitable, IMHO.

I saw a headline and couldn't believe it:

"Obama Says Debt Load 'Unsustainable'; Warns of skyrocketing interest rates..."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJsSb4qtILhg&refer=worldwide

If our Fearless Leader doesn't want deficit spending, then why on earth is he DOING it?!

/rant


It boggles the mind, doesn't it? I just hope we reach critical mass sooner and not later. Hopefully before 2010, and 2012.

[merrylander]

Well remember that part of the 'deficit' was hidden under W because he kept the costs of Iraq and Afghanistan 'off budget' not that it meant we were not spending the money. It is called creative bookkeeping in most circles, outright theft in others.

God forbid we go back to their economic theories. Fortunately for my pension Canada did not have any sub-primates running about as the CMHC did not allow such idiocy. Derivatives and tranches are dirty words in the GWN. You get a mortgage directly from a bank and they don't sell them, bundled or otherwise. Here, while there was a mortgage on this house, we went through over six different banks, yet we only re-negotiated once.

With the whole concept of derivatives and tranches how in hell anyone knows who really holds their mortgage is beyond comprehension. Another set of thieves the CMHC does not allow are Title Companies.

[Charles]

With the whole concept of derivatives and tranches how in hell anyone knows who really holds their mortgage is beyond comprehension. Another set of thieves the CMHC does not allow are Title Companies.

This is a quote from Merrylander, I don't know how to do it the easy way.

Heading West.

I read that the money tied up in derivatives is something like 10 times the GNP of the entire world. Certainly points out the difference between wealth and money. No wonder Buffet calls them "Weapons of mass destruction".

My crude analogy has been that derivatives were like side bets on a crap game. And if you ever saw L. Hanks shooting craps at the Country Club, blind drunk, I think you might agree.

Where were the regulators when we needed them? Licking their master's boots, I suppose.

Chas

[merrylander]

I read that the money tied up in derivatives is something like 10 times the GNP of the entire world. Certainly points out the difference between wealth and money. No wonder Buffet calls them "Weapons of mass destruction".

My crude analogy has been that derivatives were like side bets on a crap game. And if you ever saw L. Hanks shooting craps at the Country Club, blind drunk, I think you might agree.

Where were the regulators when we needed them? Licking their master's boots, I suppose.

Chas

Chas it is the red rectangle at the bottom of the post.

You can thank that barking idiot Phil Gramm for repealing the Glass Stegal Act and Clinton's finance guru Robert Reich for telling Bill it was a good idea. Harry Truman had it right when he asked for a one-armed economist. Put two economists in a room and they will come up with at least four theories.

You might just as well consult a tea leaf reader as an economist.

[Sandy G]

Yeah, I was an Economics major in college, & I'll be damned if I can tell you a single SIMPLE thing about it...To be a good economist, you have to be able to make a point, & then refute it at least 10 ways...And support it 20 more. The one thing that I DID get from it was is that the economy of America is SO vast, & so complicated, there is really no way to devise a model to explain it adequately...Yes, you CAN influence the economy on a "Macro"-large-scale, but often as not, by the time your influences take effect, the economy has moved on, & your "influences" end up harming things rather than helping.

[merrylander]

My son majored in economics, said he wanted to be an investment banker, ended up as a Product Manager thank God. I guess investment bankers are not all bad but you wouldn't want your sister to marry one.

[Charles]

Chas it is the red rectangle at the bottom of the post.

You can thank that barking idiot Phil Gramm for repealing the Glass Stegal Act and Clinton's finance guru Robert Reich for telling Bill it was a good idea. Harry Truman had it right when he asked for a one-armed economist. Put two economists in a room and they will come up with at least four theories.

You might just as well consult a tea leaf reader as an economist.

Sir, you are one fine human being. I feel as though I've discovered the secret of the universe. Armed with the knowledge of the magic "quote" button, I feel that I may be able to elevate myself to the status of the "truly insufferable".

I believe you have a valid point about the repeal of the GSA. There are a lot of folks that point to the sub prime loans as the straw that broke the camel's back. Personally,I think that the sub primes were more of a catalyst.

It's difficult to research a problem this complex, especially if you are as ignorant on the subject as I am. Coupled with the fact that 90% of the information that one collects is nothing more than politics as usual. Poke a stick in the other guy's eye, and try to make it look like his fault. If anyone has anything of concequence to say, they get drowned out by all of the hacks.

I hate to ask, but can you point out the magic "economics sans bullshit" button?

I'd like to click on it,
Chas

[Charles]

Yeah, I was an Economics major in college, & I'll be damned if I can tell you a single SIMPLE thing about it...To be a good economist, you have to be able to make a point, & then refute it at least 10 ways...And support it 20 more. The one thing that I DID get from it was is that the economy of America is SO vast, & so complicated, there is really no way to devise a model to explain it adequately...Yes, you CAN influence the economy on a "Macro"-large-scale, but often as not, by the time your influences take effect, the economy has moved on, & your "influences" end up harming things rather than helping.

Whoa, you were an economics major? Please allow me to hush my mouth.

And all of this time, I was under the assumption that you were just an ignorant hillbilly with a couple of "shootin' irons".

Just kidding, I figgered you was most likely packin' a little somethin' in your britches,
Chas