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epifanatic
08-24-2011, 10:35 AM
This scares the hell out of me:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201108/concerns-about-the-religious-right-are-not-overblown

An ignorant Society is a controlled Society; a controlled Society is a subjugated Nation.

Dondilion
08-24-2011, 11:25 AM
Fundamentalists are a welcome counter to the relativists.

BlueStreak
08-24-2011, 11:58 AM
Thank you for an excellent and truth filled article. These people are not your garden variety church-going folk. They are dangerous lunatics.

Dave

epifanatic
08-24-2011, 12:03 PM
Thank you for an excellent and truth filled article. These people are not your garden variety church-going folk. They are dangerous lunatics.

Dave

Yeah, it gives me the shivers, if this is where we are heading, I don't want any part of it.

BlueStreak
08-24-2011, 12:05 PM
Yeah, it gives me the shivers, if this is where we are heading, I don't want any part of it.

Me, neither, Brother...............:(

Dave

piece-itpete
08-24-2011, 12:08 PM
Perhaps we can have a law passed saying people cannot bring their values into office when elected.

That article is a darn good reason to be anti intellectual.

Pete

epifanatic
08-24-2011, 12:15 PM
Perhaps we can have a law passed saying people cannot bring their values into office when elected.

That article is a darn good reason to be anti intellectual.

Pete

How 'bout we just obey the one we have now, you know, that seperation of church and state thingy.......

BlueStreak
08-24-2011, 12:17 PM
Perhaps we can have a law passed saying people cannot bring their values into office when elected.

That article is a darn good reason to be anti intellectual.

Pete

And pro-moron apparently.:p

Dave

finnbow
08-24-2011, 12:25 PM
Fundamentalists are a welcome counter to the relativists.

BS, IMHO. People who believe and espouse myths as solutions to today's problems (or to rile up their base) are not a counter to those who use facts and science.

Is crime a welcome counter to lawful behavior? Is obesity a counter to healthful living? Are lies a welcome counter to the truth?

piece-itpete
08-24-2011, 12:25 PM
Fo sho.

:p

In the US we are supposed to be free men (and women ;)) Toss freedom of religion in the trash and you can kiss free speech goodbye.

Pete

finnbow
08-24-2011, 12:27 PM
Fo sho.

:p

In the US we are supposed to be free men (and women ;)) Toss freedom of religion in the trash and you can kiss free speech goodbye.

Pete

This has nothing to do with freedom of religion. You are free to believe in anything you wish. However, I'm also free to criticize your beliefs if you maintain that the moon is made of green cheese and you want to direct NASA's mission on that basis.

finnbow
08-24-2011, 12:32 PM
VIRGINIA BEACH (The Borowitz Report) – Evangelist Pat Robertson sparked controversy in today’s broadcast of his 700 Club program by saying that yesterday’s mild East Coast earthquake was God’s revenge on people “who act kind of gay.”

“All across the Eastern seaboard, there are men who get manicures, wear designer eyewear and know about thread counts,” Rev. Robertson. “God finds this somewhat gay-like behavior confusing, and He responded by getting mildly peeved.”

The televangelist warned that if Americans persist in their “seemingly sort-of-gay behavior,” the country should brace itself for additional ambiguous acts of retaliation from the Almighty.

“God will strike back at people who act sort of gay with all kinds of mild responses,” he said. “If you keep getting pedicures and facials, you can expect two to three inches of rain and some really hot humid days in your future.”

Rev. Robertson said that New Yorkers who reacted in an over-the-top way to yesterday’s temblor “run the risk of moderately annoying the Heavenly Father yet again.”

“God looks at people who get their panties in a twist after a little shaking, and He says to Himself, ‘Wow, that’s really kind of gay,’” he said.

BlueStreak
08-24-2011, 12:34 PM
Fo sho.

:p

In the US we are supposed to be free men (and women ;)) Toss freedom of religion in the trash and you can kiss free speech goodbye.

Pete

So, why do you support Dominionists then? I can't think of a single thing more menacing to Freedom of Religion than introducing Theocratic Dominionism into government. Nothing. Secularism supports the right to have diverse religious beliefs, dominionism seeks to bring everyone under the same (revival) tent---like it, or not.

Oh, that's right, Christians are somehow "different". They would never dream of such a thing...................

Dave

epifanatic
08-24-2011, 12:35 PM
Fo sho.

:p

In the US we are supposed to be free men (and women ;)) Toss freedom of religion in the trash and you can kiss free speech goodbye.

Pete

Feel free to practice any religion you want, just keep it out of my face and my gubmint.

piece-itpete
08-24-2011, 12:36 PM
This has nothing to do with freedom of religion. You are free to believe in anything you wish. However, I'm also free to criticize your beliefs if you maintain that the moon is made of green cheese and you want to direct NASA's mission on that basis.

Finn, when I point out flaws and adustments in various popularly held theories I'm told that's how science works (well duh). On the flip side, these fine ivory tower masters believe in science and are therefore smarter and more right than regular folks.

It's a great argument.

To direct NASAs next moon shot (I haven't been asked yet, but I expect the call soon) I would use direct observable verifiable data. I wouldn't worry too much about who wants to sleep with their mother et al.

Pete

BlueStreak
08-24-2011, 12:38 PM
Feel free to practice any religion you want, just keep it out of my face and my gubmint.

+1.

Dave

epifanatic
08-24-2011, 12:43 PM
Holy crap!!!! I just became a "Senior Member"!!!!! what's next? AARP card??

piece-itpete
08-24-2011, 12:49 PM
LMAO! Or in light of your new condition perhaps I need to speak up:

LMAO!!

Pete

epifanatic
08-24-2011, 12:55 PM
LMAO! Or in light of your new condition perhaps I need to speak up:

LMAO!!

Pete
Thanks Pete, are "senior moments" far behind??

piece-itpete
08-24-2011, 01:24 PM
Depends: how many brain cells you fry in school? :)

Pete

epifanatic
08-24-2011, 02:09 PM
Depends: how many brain cells you fry in school? :)

Pete

Not sure, the late '70's and early '80's are pretty much a blur.:rolleyes:

finnbow
08-24-2011, 02:39 PM
Here's an interesting and relevant take on this issue from Richard Dawkins, with specific emphasis on Rick Perry's squirrelly views on evolution:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/post/attention-governor-perry-evolution-is-a-fact/2011/08/23/gIQAuIFUYJ_blog.html?hpid=z3

epifanatic
08-24-2011, 02:53 PM
Here's an interesting and relevant take on this issue from Richard Dawkins, with specific emphasis on Rick Perry's squirrelly views on evolution:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/post/attention-governor-perry-evolution-is-a-fact/2011/08/23/gIQAuIFUYJ_blog.html?hpid=z3

Great article, thanks Finn.

Oerets
08-24-2011, 03:14 PM
Just on Fresh Air today they had an interview with Rachel Tabachnick about this subject.
http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/


New Apostolic Reformation
The Evangelicals Engaged In Spiritual Warfare

A new Christian movement that seeks to take dominion over politics, business and culture in preparation for the end times and Jesus' return is becoming more of a presence in American politics. Rachel Tabachnick, who researches the religious right, explains its beliefs and influences.


Good listen IMHO.


Scared and pissed me off at the same time.


Barney

Dondilion
08-24-2011, 05:01 PM
VIRGINIA BEACH (The Borowitz Report) – Evangelist Pat Robertson sparked controversy in today’s broadcast of his 700 Club program by saying that yesterday’s mild East Coast earthquake was God’s revenge on people “who act kind of gay.”

“All across the Eastern seaboard, there are men who get manicures, wear designer eyewear and know about thread counts,” Rev. Robertson. “God finds this somewhat gay-like behavior confusing, and He responded by getting mildly peeved.”



Damn! The Rev is just warming up.

djv8ga
08-24-2011, 08:05 PM
+1.

Dave
I agree. All the Hippey BS too. They eat one fucking shroom & split to Kansas to build a church.

Charles
08-24-2011, 08:09 PM
You know, I used to try talking to God, they told me it worked in church.

Well, I reckon God must of been too busy running the universe or something to waste his time with me.

Or maybe he just wanted me to figure it out on my own, which is pretty much what I did.

Now I got nothin' against God, and if he works for you I think that's great.

But if he was on my payroll, I'd fire 'em. I'm having to do my work and his too.

See you fellers in Hell,

Chas

Charles
08-24-2011, 08:14 PM
I agree. All the Hippey BS too. They eat one fucking shroom & split to Kansas to build a church.

I ate more than one.

Not what I'd call a religious experience, but it was damn interesting at times.

Chas

djv8ga
08-24-2011, 08:19 PM
I ate more than one.

Not what I'd call a religious experience, but it was damn interesting at times.

Chas
I wonder how funny this board would be on 3 dried grams...? :D

Charles
08-24-2011, 08:43 PM
I wonder how funny this board would be on 3 dried grams...? :D

If I thought I could bear one more psychedelic hangover, I'd be willing to try.

On second though, I'd go fishing and get in a pissing contest with the walleyes.

Chas

epifanatic
08-24-2011, 08:45 PM
You know, I used to try talking to God, they told me it worked in church.

Well, I reckon God must of been too busy running the universe or something to waste his time with me.

Or maybe he just wanted me to figure it out on my own, which is pretty much what I did.

Now I got nothin' against God, and if he works for you I think that's great.

But if he was on my payroll, I'd fire 'em. I'm having to do my work and his too.

See you fellers in Hell,

Chas

He's way too busy for you Chas. He has to help Jimbob Tirekicker win that thar Nascar race this weekend.

I wonder how funny this board would be on 3 dried grams...? :D

Wow, that could get interesting.:eek:

Charles
08-24-2011, 09:08 PM
He's way too busy for you Chas. He has to help Jimbob Tirekicker win that thar Nascar race this weekend.



Wow, that could get interesting.:eek:

Now lay offa Jimbob.

He used to let me come over to his house and help bang his sister.

Chas

d-ray657
08-24-2011, 10:41 PM
Fo sho.

:p

In the US we are supposed to be free men (and women ;)) Toss freedom of religion in the trash and you can kiss free speech goodbye.

Pete

That's why fundamentalist like Bachman and Perry are dangerous. The absolutism demanded by that type of fundamentalist is a serious threat to the religious freedom of those who have a different vision of the Divine. It's not too much of a stretch to say elect Bachman or Perry and kiss freedom of religion goodbye.

Regards,

D-Ray

BlueStreak
08-25-2011, 03:05 AM
Not sure, the late '70's and early '80's are pretty much a blur.:rolleyes:

You too? Damn that's weird......Think it could have been something we inhaled?

Dave

Dondilion
08-26-2011, 08:16 AM
VIRGINIA BEACH (The Borowitz Report) – Evangelist Pat Robertson sparked controversy in today’s broadcast of his 700 Club program by saying that yesterday’s mild East Coast earthquake was God’s revenge on people “who act kind of gay.”

“All across the Eastern seaboard, there are men who get manicures, wear designer eyewear and know about thread counts,” Rev. Robertson. “God finds this somewhat gay-like behavior confusing, and He responded by getting mildly peeved.”

The televangelist warned that if Americans persist in their “seemingly sort-of-gay behavior,” the country should brace itself for additional ambiguous acts of retaliation from the Almighty.

“God will strike back at people who act sort of gay with all kinds of mild responses,” he said. “If you keep getting pedicures and facials, you can expect two to three inches of rain and some really hot humid days in your future.”

Rev. Robertson said that New Yorkers who reacted in an over-the-top way to yesterday’s temblor “run the risk of moderately annoying the Heavenly Father yet again.”

“God looks at people who get their panties in a twist after a little shaking, and He says to Himself, ‘Wow, that’s really kind of gay,’” he said.

It looks like the people and the Rev are in tune:
All over Brooklyn the word on the road is that the FATHER is upset with New Yorkers for passing "gay marriage" or "batty man law". Hence earthquake and impending hurricane.

piece-itpete
08-26-2011, 09:37 AM
I think Dawkins is a pompous ass, and the antireligionists he represents have been far more successful at limiting free speech than the evangelicals (that are suddenly the greatest threat to the US ever!).

And if Bachmann somehow wins, or Perry, freedom of religion will be done for? Amazing the power of Republican Presidents, particularly compared to Dem ones ;)

There is a clear link in the Bible between a nations actions and its', um, happiness.

I wouldn't take any more hallucinogens. They are very bad for you. I wouldn't take any more hallucinogens. They are very bad for you. Wait, did I say that already? :confused:


Pete

merrylander
08-26-2011, 02:25 PM
I don't want to pick on anyone's spelling but I do think the title of this thread is apropos since they are not the 'brightest' bulbs in the string.:p

epifanatic
08-26-2011, 02:50 PM
I don't want to pick on anyone's spelling but I do think the title of this thread is apropos since they are not the 'brightest' bulbs in the string.:p

Dohhh!!! I just caught that, damn thurd grade edumacation bites me in the ass again!!......or, was it the shrooms?!?!

merrylander
08-26-2011, 03:02 PM
Sorry, I actually thought it very descriptive.:p

epifanatic
08-26-2011, 03:26 PM
Sorry, I actually thought it very descriptive.:p

...o.k......er, yeah....I meant to do that!!!

Charles
08-26-2011, 05:00 PM
That's why fundamentalist like Bachman and Perry are dangerous. The absolutism demanded by that type of fundamentalist is a serious threat to the religious freedom of those who have a different vision of the Divine. It's not too much of a stretch to say elect Bachman or Perry and kiss freedom of religion goodbye.

Regards,

D-Ray

Don, do you actually believe that?

Chas

BlueStreak
08-26-2011, 05:04 PM
I do.

Dave

epifanatic
08-26-2011, 05:08 PM
No doubt.

Oerets
08-26-2011, 05:23 PM
I do.

Dave

+1
Me too !




Charles, I have been in more then one Church over the past three years and have seen similar thing being said. It was real bad right before the last Presidential election. The sermons would get hot and heavy, a few time the wife and I thought of walking out is was so bad. But that would of drawn the whole congregations attention!

I can attest to the fact not only the Pastor or Deacons would say thing along these lines. Then most if not the whole congregation would say an amen.

Things like being the Anti-Christ, end of the world and the Muslims were going to take over the U.S.A. and such .


Barney

Charles
08-26-2011, 06:10 PM
+1
Me too !




Charles, I have been in more then one Church over the past three years and have seen similar thing being said. It was real bad right before the last Presidential election. The sermons would get hot and heavy, a few time the wife and I thought of walking out is was so bad. But that would of drawn the whole congregations attention!

I can attest to the fact not only the Pastor or Deacons would say thing along these lines. Then most if not the whole congregation would say an amen.

Things like being the Anti-Christ, end of the world and the Muslims were going to take over the U.S.A. and such .


Barney

Hell, you guys may be right for all I know.

I go to church for two reasons.

One, somebody falls over dead and I'm compelled to go to their funeral. Most of the time, I don't like the sumbitch, but I go anyway.

Two, they hire me to work on the damn thing.

Now there's no doubt in my mind that the majority of the Christians are sour on the Muslims, and vice versa. It's been like that since the Crusades.

And when the snake kissers get together, they can get almost as cranked up as a bunch of liberals on Politicalchat.org, But once they get it out of their system, they're pretty much like everyone else.

They stop and think about it, they realize it ain't worth the effort.

Have you ever considered that perhaps you're overreacting?

Chas

finnbow
08-26-2011, 07:12 PM
My gal, Kathleen Parker, nails another one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rick-perry-the-republicans-messiah/2011/08/26/gIQAGnY5gJ_story.html

Charles
08-26-2011, 07:26 PM
My gal, Kathleen Parker, nails another one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rick-perry-the-republicans-messiah/2011/08/26/gIQAGnY5gJ_story.html

Liked that, did ya?

Chas

epifanatic
08-26-2011, 07:29 PM
My gal, Kathleen Parker, nails another one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rick-perry-the-republicans-messiah/2011/08/26/gIQAGnY5gJ_story.html

"That we are yet again debating evolutionary theory and Earth’s origins — and that candidates now have to declare where they stand on established science — should be a signal that we are slip-sliding toward governance by emotion rather than reason."

Nothing good can ever come from that.

Dondilion
08-26-2011, 08:11 PM
She is making a huge presumption re the electorate.

BlueStreak
08-26-2011, 09:56 PM
"That we are yet again debating evolutionary theory and Earth’s origins — and that candidates now have to declare where they stand on established science — should be a signal that we are slip-sliding toward governance by emotion rather than reason."

Nothing good can ever come from that.

Correct.

Religious Right-wing political correctness; You can't say you think Darwin may have been on to something-----they will attempt to bar you from running for office.

This is the height of dogma, when someone openly shows the intent to gain the highest offices of government, so they can shove their religious beliefs down everyones throats. Think I'm crazy? Look at the Texas School Board. Look at Conservapedia and their efforts to change the History texts and even the Bible to make them more compatible to their views.

The religious fanatics have grown tired of being told they might be wrong about some things. What you must understand is that in their minds, they can't be wrong, ever. Why? Because they are following the "Word of God". And God is never wrong, only man is fallable. After all, who would attempt to rebuke the "Word of God"?

"If God be with us, then who dare be against us?" Sound familiar?

The answer to that question is Satan, of course. Do you negotiate, or compromise with Satan? Of course not.
You drive him down and destroy him.

These people are poison. It won't stop here. If they are handed sufficient power here in the US, the logical next step will be to bring the rest of the world in line.....Whether they like it, or not.

God help us all. (Pun intended.)

Dave

merrylander
08-27-2011, 07:41 AM
I wonder what they would say when I remind them that the Bible was written by men (pretty chauvinistic ones at that) and that God did not fax it down.

Charles
08-27-2011, 08:26 AM
I wonder what they would say when I remind them that the Bible was written by men (pretty chauvinistic ones at that) and that God did not fax it down.

That's sacrilege.

The next thing you'll be saying is the Pope's from Texas!!!

908

Chas

merrylander
08-27-2011, 08:41 AM
That's sacrilege.

The next thing you'll be saying is the Pope's from Texas!!!

908

Chas

You mean he isn't?:rolleyes:

Charles
08-27-2011, 09:33 AM
You mean he isn't?:rolleyes:

I thought he was a Pollock, or was that the last one?

Chas

BlueStreak
08-27-2011, 09:36 AM
The last one. This ones the former Hitlerjugen. (Seriously, look it up.)

Dave

Charles
08-27-2011, 12:43 PM
The last one. This ones the former Hitlerjugen. (Seriously, look it up.)

Dave

I was thinking they were one and the same.

Should have known better. I don't think the Pollocks are too hep on Nazis, or Rooskies, or wimmen without hair on their chests.

But at least the Pollocks can take a joke.

Chas

bhunter
08-29-2011, 01:19 AM
Here's an interesting and relevant take on this issue from Richard Dawkins, with specific emphasis on Rick Perry's squirrelly views on evolution:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/post/attention-governor-perry-evolution-is-a-fact/2011/08/23/gIQAuIFUYJ_blog.html?hpid=z3

I've always enjoyed the prose of Richard Dawkins. It is interesting how a lot people have no inkling of the term "theory" in its proper scientific context. I have great difficulty understanding people that deny evolution. BTW, one can accept evolution and still have religion.

bhunter
08-29-2011, 01:35 AM
I wonder what they would say when I remind them that the Bible was written by men (pretty chauvinistic ones at that) and that God did not fax it down.

Sadly, I bet a majority think that it came written in English.

d-ray657
08-29-2011, 07:57 AM
Sadly, I bet a majority think that it came written in English.

Because of the strong oral tradition in play during that time and place, Consider how many centuries some of the "text" lived before it was reduced to writing.

Regards,

D-Ray

BlueStreak
08-29-2011, 09:37 AM
Because of the strong oral tradition in play during that time and place, Consider how many centuries some of the "text" lived before it was reduced to writing.

Regards,

D-Ray

And I would be willing to bet that what what we have now is as close to the original as I am to sainthood.:p

Dave

epifanatic
08-29-2011, 04:47 PM
Our future??
http://www.enotes.com/handmaids-tale/summary
tin foil hat firmly in place:rolleyes:

merrylander
08-30-2011, 08:04 AM
Our future??
http://www.enotes.com/handmaids-tale/summary
tin foil hat firmly in place:rolleyes:

I have her latest - "The year of the flood" - having a tough time finding reading time.

The reason I wrote that the men who wrote the Bible were chauvinists was the fable of Adam and Eve, of course they had to blame everything on poor Eve.

piece-itpete
08-31-2011, 11:01 AM
Consider that creation is an ascending event. This puts women at the top. Men are made from clay. Women are made from living flesh.

Same with original sin. The old saw, a fish rots at the head...


....And when the snake kissers get together, they can get almost as cranked up as a bunch of liberals on Politicalchat.org, ...


LMAO!!!

"That we are yet again debating evolutionary theory and Earth’s origins — and that candidates now have to declare where they stand on established science — should be a signal that we are slip-sliding toward governance by emotion rather than reason."

Nothing good can ever come from that.

No, much much better to keep ostrasizing anyone who doesn't bow at the altar of these theories, that doesn't bow to prevaling thoughts and beliefs, much like the Catholic chuch did when it was in power.

And that's the problem bh - they are not taught and/or looked upon as theory, but fact. Any detective can tell you, if they locked up everyone because a theory fit the facts there'd be a lot of innocent people in jail.

Pete

BlueStreak
08-31-2011, 11:04 AM
The "theory" of Creationism is ridiculous, Pete. Anyone who believes in it is part of a greater problem that causes everything from moral and economic decline to earthquakes.

I await your reaction.

Dave

piece-itpete
08-31-2011, 11:17 AM
Show me the money, sonny. Or I'll send an earthquake your way :p

You're in rare form today Dave :)

Pete

Brett A
08-31-2011, 03:52 PM
Perhaps we can have a law passed saying people cannot bring their values into office when elected.

That article is a darn good reason to be anti intellectual.

Pete

We've had such a law for a long time, it's referred to as the separation of church and state.

And pro-moron apparently.:p

Dave
Apparently. Smart people-nothin' but trouble.

Toss freedom of religion in the trash and you can kiss free speech goodbye.
Pete
It's true. If the Chirstian Right win office, we can kiss both goodbye.

Just on Fresh Air today they had an interview with Rachel Tabachnick about this subject.
http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/

New Apostolic Reformation
The Evangelicals Engaged In Spiritual Warfare(...)

Good listen IMHO.

Barney
Should be required listening to anyone considering not voting. --kind of a scared str8 approach to increasing voter turnout from the Democrat and Reasonable Republican camps.

That's why fundamentalist like Bachman and Perry are dangerous. The absolutism demanded by that type of fundamentalist is a serious threat to the religious freedom of those who have a different vision of the Divine. It's not too much of a stretch to say elect Bachman or Perry and kiss freedom of religion goodbye.

Regards,

D-Ray
Don, do you actually believe that?

Chas



I'm with D ray on this one too. Seems pretty clear to me they are intolerant of tolerance. They say they're for small government, but their views on abortion and gay rights make it clear they are not much into liberty. And neither of them are secretive about their Christian missionary motivation for running.

I wonder what they would say when I remind them that the Bible was written by men (pretty chauvinistic ones at that) and that God did not fax it down.

Because of the strong oral tradition in play during that time and place, Consider how many centuries some of the "text" lived before it was reduced to writing.

Regards,

D-Ray

The whole problem is that at some point, people started confusing the metaphors for reality. The biblical parables were not intended to be taken literally IMO. They are vehicles for wisdom and guidance, not news reports.

painter
08-31-2011, 05:07 PM
That's why fundamentalist like Bachman and Perry are dangerous. The absolutism demanded by that type of fundamentalist is a serious threat to the religious freedom of those who have a different vision of the Divine. It's not too much of a stretch to say elect Bachman or Perry and kiss freedom of religion goodbye.

Regards,

D-Ray


Many people can separate the eccentric...from the norm. IMO they are appealing to the majority of voters who for one reason or other need to hear what they babble. Given the state of the economy...this is understandable.
I am a cafeteria Catholic ( pick and choose what I believe ) Don't attend mass regularly...but pray daily. I'd like to see ALL religious buildings be taxed AND the clergy as well. Just saying...;)

epifanatic
08-31-2011, 05:58 PM
Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
[Treaty of Tripoli 1796]
"
— George Washington

Oerets
08-31-2011, 06:12 PM
To many "BIG WORDS" for some to understand I afraid, maybe that is why there is such confusion out of the TP on this subject so far.

Or maybe Jefferson and Washington are in the Liberal Elite category and think they are wrong. Better still think History classes are meaningless with the Bible to go by.



Barney

Charles
08-31-2011, 06:33 PM
Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802

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"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
[Treaty of Tripoli 1796]
"
— George Washington

"Leave me alone, and I won't put a conibear trap in your mailbox."

Chas

epifanatic
08-31-2011, 10:02 PM
It seems pretty cut and dried to me.

epifanatic
08-31-2011, 10:10 PM
"Leave me alone, and I won't put a conibear trap in your mailbox."

Chas

Man, those things were WICKED!!!!!! But give me a foothold trap for my enemies......BWWHHHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

BlueStreak
09-01-2011, 01:00 AM
"Leave me alone, and I won't put a conibear trap in your mailbox."

Chas

Precisely.

Dave

piece-itpete
09-01-2011, 10:02 AM
We've had such a law for a long time, it's referred to as the separation of church and state.




So, if a Christian runs, they check their values at the door, but if an atheist runs, they can act how they choose? That sounds like a serious restriction on personal freedom.

Of course, we can always look to the fine examples of atheist States in history...

Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
[Treaty of Tripoli 1796]
"
— George Washington

Take a very hard look at that letter. He is assuring the church that the government won't interfere, as well as the other way around. Various denominations were worried that Congress would attempt to sanction a state church. A legitimite worry, as they had a Chaplain on their payroll from day one.

Let's take a look at that whole Tripoli quote:

"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

A bit different. And certainly not written by Washington BTW, although undoubtably approved by him. Though it really doesn't matter.


"Leave me alone, and I won't put a conibear trap in your mailbox."

Chas

Can we fire the lawyers and send you to Washington?

Pete

finnbow
09-01-2011, 10:19 AM
So, if a Christian runs, they check their values at the door, but if an atheist runs, they can act how they choose?

To the extent he wishes to impose those values upon me, yes.

piece-itpete
09-01-2011, 10:27 AM
What about an atheists' values? All law is legislated morality.

Pete

finnbow
09-01-2011, 10:30 AM
What about an atheists' values? All law is legislated morality.

Pete

By definition, atheists have no "religious" values to impose.

painter
09-01-2011, 12:39 PM
So, if a Christian runs, they check their values at the door, but if an atheist runs, they can act how they choose? That sounds like a serious restriction on personal freedom.



Pete

:cool:

piece-itpete
09-01-2011, 12:41 PM
[edit: Finn] What - murder? Rape? We gonna make you be baptised? No! It burns! AAAAAaaahhhhhrrg :D

Because I take my values from the Bible doesn't make my take on the economy, or child spanking, or goat testicle research any less valid than say Lenins'. Or are we going to enforce conformity?

Which atheists are the Dems running again?

Pete

finnbow
09-01-2011, 12:51 PM
[edit: Finn] What - murder? Rape? We gonna make you be baptised? No! It burns! AAAAAaaahhhhhrrg :D

Because I take my values from the Bible doesn't make my take on the economy, or child spanking, or goat testicle research any less valid than say Lenins'. Or are we going to enforce conformity?

Which atheists are the Dems running again?

Pete

It's a sad truth that in order to be President of the US, one has to be a Protestant (Kennedy excepted), or at least pretend to be one. It's the whole "wearing religion on one's sleeve" a la Bachmann/Perry that I find so distasteful.

This just in - Perry's campaign song is "Jesus Loves Me But He Can't Stand You" ("Jesus Loves Me But He Can't Stand You" by the Austin Lounge Lizards.) by the Austin Lounge Lizards. :D

piece-itpete
09-01-2011, 01:02 PM
I'll have my bud play that for me, thanks. No love for 'goat testicle research'? :D

Pete

finnbow
09-01-2011, 01:08 PM
I'll have my bud play that for me, thanks. No love for 'goat testicle research'? :D

Pete

Deep fried on a po-boy with plenty of Crystal hot sauce sounds like my kind of research.:eek:

piece-itpete
09-01-2011, 01:38 PM
LMAO!!

Pete

Brett A
09-05-2011, 12:41 PM
Which atheists are the Dems running again?

Pete

Obama's a Muslim, remember?

piece-itpete
09-06-2011, 12:49 PM
Is that better or worse than an atheist?

Pete

merrylander
09-06-2011, 02:09 PM
Is that better or worse than an atheist?

Pete

For the information of all Ayn Rand was a militant atheist, quite apart from having knee tremblers with a guy 25 years younger and both were married at the time. No wonder so many Repubs think she was a bloody wonder, fits the GOP image to a T.

piece-itpete
09-06-2011, 02:37 PM
I don't think I've ever read Rand. So, you're anti-atheist? :p

Pete

merrylander
09-06-2011, 02:52 PM
You haven't missed a bloody thing, no what people believe is their business, just don't tell me what I must believe. In fact don't even tell me what I believe because 99% of the time you would be wrong.

piece-itpete
09-06-2011, 02:56 PM
So you're an anti-believing belief believer?

Sorry Rob, old brain wound, can't help it :p I understand what you're saying.

Pete

Charles
09-06-2011, 07:04 PM
I don't think I've ever read Rand. So, you're anti-atheist? :p

Pete

Her long winded writing style makes a strong case for CliffsNotes.

I believe Rob once said that she must have been paid by the word, and he's right about that.

Chas

d-ray657
09-07-2011, 01:55 AM
Her long winded writing style makes a strong case for CliffsNotes.

I believe Rob once said that she must have been paid by the word, and he's right about that.

Chas

Seems like every day you say something that takes another chip off of the ignernt hillbilly image you have so carefully crafted. :rolleyes: I'll bet you were a big fan of Sam Ervin.

Regards,

D-Ray

piece-itpete
09-07-2011, 08:55 AM
We need to find a job that pays by the beer.

Pete