A shocking statistic

[d-ray657]

This one:

The median earnings of men ages 25 to 64 declined 28 percent between 1969 and 2009.

This from an article appropriately entitled "The Fallacy of Post-Industrial Prosperity." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-fallacy-of-post-industrial-prosperity/2011/09/04/gIQAk4Ob2J_story.html)

It's even worse without a degree: High school graduates in that category who did not have a degree saw a 47% decline in earnings.

That's what makes it so sickening to see the tea party propaganda being used by folks like the Koch brothers to distract people from the real issues in our economy. It ain't because taxes are too high or because we have a black man in the White House. :mad: It's because it's more fun for the moneyed folks to have $200 million in the bank than $150 million, and if they can get that from cheap offshore labor, that's what they'll do.

Regards,

D-Ray

[merrylander]

Happy Capital Day y'all.

[JCricket]

Thanks for the link!

I have thought we needed something like this "domestic content" policy for sometime. Better yet, if a company is an "American" company, it must produce all of its goods here, otherwise it loses all of its tax breaks and incentives.


If they are going to enjoy the freedom and prosperity of America, then they need to participate as an American company. Otherwise they are just dammed parasites.

[Charles]

This one:

The median earnings of men ages 25 to 64 declined 28 percent between 1969 and 2009.

This from an article appropriately entitled "The Fallacy of Post-Industrial Prosperity." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-fallacy-of-post-industrial-prosperity/2011/09/04/gIQAk4Ob2J_story.html)

It's even worse without a degree: High school graduates in that category who did not have a degree saw a 47% decline in earnings.

That's what makes it so sickening to see the tea party propaganda being used by folks like the Koch brothers to distract people from the real issues in our economy. It ain't because taxes are too high or because we have a black man in the White House. :mad: It's because it's more fun for the moneyed folks to have $200 million in the bank than $150 million, and if they can get that from cheap offshore labor, that's what they'll do.

Regards,

D-Ray

That's terrible, Don, terrible.

It's almost as disgusting as the moneyed folks who currently have a black man in the white house using propaganda to blame all of our current economic ills on the Tea Party and the Koch boys.

But I'm too excited for critical thinking at the moment...my side just faked their way into the red zone.

Chas

[d-ray657]

That's terrible, Don, terrible.

It's almost as disgusting as the moneyed folks who currently have a black man in the white house using propaganda to blame all of our current economic ills on the Tea Party and the Koch boys.

But I'm too excited for critical thinking at the moment...my side just faked their way into the red zone.

Chas

Where did you find a football game on at this time of the morning?

Regards,

D-Ray

[Charles]

Where did you find a football game on at this time of the morning?

Regards,

D-Ray

Watch out for either ADTHE or ATDHE. net.

The Federales shut one of them down.

Wouldn't want to get your ass on a DHS hit list for trying to watch a crummy game that the networks won't carry.

To tell the truth, you can buy anything in America, from a bag of pot to a machine gun or even the president.

Howcome I can't pay a couple of crummy bucks to watch some shitty game?

Reckon I'm a terrorist now.

And if no one is paying attention, the CIA is spying on icebergs now, in an attempt to determine if global warming is occuring.


As far as I'm concerned, it's past time to start kicking asses and taking names.

Chas

[Charles]

Where did you find a football game on at this time of the morning?

Regards,

D-Ray

You need to use a #6 stinger, trebles are the best.

Chas

[bhunter]

This one:

The median earnings of men ages 25 to 64 declined 28 percent between 1969 and 2009.

This from an article appropriately entitled "The Fallacy of Post-Industrial Prosperity." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-fallacy-of-post-industrial-prosperity/2011/09/04/gIQAk4Ob2J_story.html)

It's even worse without a degree: High school graduates in that category who did not have a degree saw a 47% decline in earnings.

That's what makes it so sickening to see the tea party propaganda being used by folks like the Koch brothers to distract people from the real issues in our economy. It ain't because taxes are too high or because we have a black man in the White House. :mad: It's because it's more fun for the moneyed folks to have $200 million in the bank than $150 million, and if they can get that from cheap offshore labor, that's what they'll do.

Regards,

D-Ray

I see that actual percentage of male workers with full time jobs has also declined from 83% to 66%. That is a large difference and probably has something to do with the decline in median earnings. I'd like to see the numbers along racial lines and extended to include women. I'd also point out that women entering the workforce after WW2 also had a significant impact on men's earnings and the entire job market. That would be a fairer assestment of the change over time. I'd assume they are using constant dollars.

Free trade and compararative advantage is solidly grounded in economic theory. Think how cheap foreign manufactured goods have helped the poor attain things that they wouldn't have been able to afford if manufactured here. Sure, foreign manufacture does hurt the factory laborers and specifically, the unions, but it also helps the government dependent poor, the working poor, and those that have more innovative skill sets. Goods ought be made where they can be made efficiently. That means as inexpensively as possible while maintaining equivalent quality to domestically produced goods. Free trade is not the problem, but rather, the skewed markets that are caused by national governments getting involved in the process.

The Japanese success in penetrating and then destroying the U.S. electronics industry is certainly an example of free market efficiencies.

[Bigerik]

I see that actual percentage of male workers with full time jobs has also declined from 83% to 66%. That is a large difference and probably has something to do with the decline in median earnings. I'd like to see the numbers along racial lines and extended to include women. I'd also point out that women entering the workforce after WW2 also had a significant impact on men's earnings and the entire job market. That would be a fairer assestment of the change over time. I'd assume they are using constant dollars.

Free trade and compararative advantage is solidly grounded in economic theory. Think how cheap foreign manufactured goods have helped the poor attain things that they wouldn't have been able to afford if manufactured here. Sure, foreign manufacture does hurt the factory laborers and specifically, the unions, but it also helps the government dependent poor, the working poor, and those that have more innovative skill sets. Goods ought be made where they can be made efficiently. That means as inexpensively as possible while maintaining equivalent quality to domestically produced goods. Free trade is not the problem, but rather, the skewed markets that are caused by national governments getting involved in the process.

The Japanese success in penetrating and then destroying the U.S. electronics industry is certainly an example of free market efficiencies.

Yup, worked great for Japan. Cept their market is anything but free. Read an article recently of how Samsung, the worlds largest TV manufacturer, had to pull out of the Japanese market because of non-tarriff boundaries.

The Japanese car market has been pretty well closed to imports also. Peugeot won the import car of the year award in Japan a couple of years ago, and sold just over 2000 cars. In a 3 million a year car market.

The Japanese have always supported their own domestic economy. Only in the US is this considered a socialist/union activity.

[JCricket]

I see that actual percentage of male workers with full time jobs has also declined from 83% to 66%. That is a large difference and probably has something to do with the decline in median earnings. I'd like to see the numbers along racial lines and extended to include women. I'd also point out that women entering the workforce after WW2 also had a significant impact on men's earnings and the entire job market. That would be a fairer assestment of the change over time. I'd assume they are using constant dollars.

Free trade and compararative advantage is solidly grounded in economic theory. Think how cheap foreign manufactured goods have helped the poor attain things that they wouldn't have been able to afford if manufactured here. Sure, foreign manufacture does hurt the factory laborers and specifically, the unions, but it also helps the government dependent poor, the working poor, and those that have more innovative skill sets. Goods ought be made where they can be made efficiently. That means as inexpensively as possible while maintaining equivalent quality to domestically produced goods. Free trade is not the problem, but rather, the skewed markets that are caused by national governments getting involved in the process. The Japanese success in penetrating and then destroying the U.S. electronics industry is certainly an example of free market efficiencies.

DO you really believe all that bunk you just spewed? Really?
Lets see, goods can be made cheaper and take jobs out of the US. Therefore, the skilled have less jobs. They will take what they can get(they have to). This extra skilled laborer will displace the less skilled(read as poor) laborer. Now the poor, who were wroking are even poorer. And as far as national governments are concerned, if it weren't for them the rich businesses would have complete and total control of all wealth. The common man would have nothing. Read about carnigie and rockefeller and uncontrolled/unregulated capitalism. You might be suprised what you learn.

Yeah, I am a horses ass this morning. But your post is just way beyond rediculous.

[merrylander]

Yup, worked great for Japan. Cept their market is anything but free. Read an article recently of how Samsung, the worlds largest TV manufacturer, had to pull out of the Japanese market because of non-tarriff boundaries.

The Japanese car market has been pretty well closed to imports also. Peugeot won the import car of the year award in Japan a couple of years ago, and sold just over 2000 cars. In a 3 million a year car market.

The Japanese have always supported their own domestic economy. Only in the US is this considered a socialist/union activity.

Exactly, when Florence was teaching in Japan, if you bought a foreign car for say $10,000 then the tarriff was $10,000. Not only that, their biggest manuafcturers would collaborate and assign a section of the world market to one of that groups members. They would then subsidize that manufacturer until it had run the competition out of business. A Young Japanese trade delegate admitted as much to me over a beer in the San Francisco airport.

Among her students (all well placed up and coming coporate management) was thr grandson of a former premier Ikedo. he flat out stated "We may have lost the shooting war, but we will bury you in the economic war."

[piece-itpete]

....
because we have a black man in the White House.
...


That's my take. The very same black man who's currently looking to expand more free trade agreements.

Pete

[Brett A]

Trickle-down will work. We just need to give it more time.

[merrylander]

Trickle-down will work. We just need to give it more time.

Ok for you to say that, myself I'm a wee bit tard of being pi**ed on.:p

[Brett A]

Ok for you to say that, myself I'm a wee bit tard of being pi**ed on.:p
I hope you know I was joking. But you make a good point. Something's been trickling down, but it ain't prosperity.

[merrylander]

I hope you know I was joking. But you make a good point. Something's been trickling down, but it ain't prosperity.

Oh I knew it was a joke, and right - what is trickling down sure does not smell like prosperity.:p

[Oerets]

Trickle down does work well for the one trickling. Just not for the masses receiving.




Barney

[Bigerik]

That's my take. The very same black man who's currently looking to expand more free trade agreements.

Pete

Free trade isn't even that big of a problem if it actually is free. The trading partners who are killing us, like China and Japan, are hardly free markets for us. They dump goods into our market, and then do things like screw with their exchange rates to keep their markets closed to us.

[piece-itpete]

Believe me I'm no fan of whole country dumping - er I mean artifically depressed exchange rates. I suggest taking it up with the current State department.

There's a post WW2 tie in in a big way on this. Even come 69 the rest of the world was still playing catch up.

Then of course our bipartisan foriegn policy, attemping to bring China into the fold of civilized nations - basically trying to prevent a war with them by integrating them into our economic system.

Pete

[bhunter]

DO you really believe all that bunk you just spewed? Really?
Lets see, goods can be made cheaper and take jobs out of the US. Therefore, the skilled have less jobs. They will take what they can get(they have to). This extra skilled laborer will displace the less skilled(read as poor) laborer. Now the poor, who were wroking are even poorer. And as far as national governments are concerned, if it weren't for them the rich businesses would have complete and total control of all wealth. The common man would have nothing. Read about carnigie and rockefeller and uncontrolled/unregulated capitalism. You might be suprised what you learn.

Yeah, I am a horses ass this morning. But your post is just way beyond rediculous.

There is no good argument against the manufacture of goods at the greatest efficiency. Using a nation's labor in an inefficient manner is simply a waste of resources, thus manufacture ought not be artificially propped up by government. Sadly, it actually is and especially wrt to China and formerly Japan.

Inexpensive products mean they are manufactured more efficiently than the same, equivalent, product at a higher price. There is an economic sink where products are not made efficiently. This is harmful to the economy. Now, clearly some groups will be bettered by the inefficienct, but overall there will, by necessity, be harm to the whole of the system. The problem is when national governments gets involved.

Also, consider how the poor here in America could stretch their SS or welfare checks without the inexpensive, read efficiently produced, products from China.

BTW, I hate Chinese products but do realize that they help the poor stretch their income. The question ought be why the US can't compete with the Chinese on an ever increasing number of products? We once were able to compete, but now we can't. Surely there must be a reason aside from blaming corpororations, republicans, democrats, or some other boogey man. The corporations will go to where efficiencies are highest, thus they don't seem to be the driver of our industrial problems.

[d-ray657]

Now there's an economic policy for you. Take care of the poor by letting them buy cheap crap. Meanwhile, create all sorts of tax shelters and incentives to take money and production offshore and starve our domestic industries.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Oerets]

Now there's an economic policy for you. Take care of the poor by letting them buy cheap crap. Meanwhile, create all sorts of tax shelters and incentives to take money and production offshore and starve our domestic industries.

Regards,

D-Ray

Sounds a lot like Wally Worlds modus operandi to me!




Barney

[bhunter]

Now there's an economic policy for you. Take care of the poor by letting them buy cheap crap. Meanwhile, create all sorts of tax shelters and incentives to take money and production offshore and starve our domestic industries.

Regards,

D-Ray

Those that are wearing that cheap Chinese new school cloths might think differently. Just becasue something is cheap doesn't mean its not equivalent to the higher priced. Particularly when even the highly touted brand names are made in the same factory. For instance, I've purchased boots that range in price from $29.00 to $300.00 a pair. Aside from the $300.00 pair, I found no difference in the quality within the $29.00 to $110.00 range. In fact, I like my emergency Walmart boot purchase the best because the value. The best are the $300.00 pair, but I only use them for more serious hiking.

[JCricket]

Those that are wearing that cheap Chinese new school cloths might think differently. Just becasue something is cheap doesn't mean its not equivalent to the higher priced. Particularly when even the highly touted brand names are made in the same factory. For instance, I've purchased boots that range in price from $29.00 to $300.00 a pair. Aside from the $300.00 pair, I found no difference in the quality within the $29.00 to $110.00 range. In fact, I like my emergency Walmart boot purchase the best because the value. The best are the $300.00 pair, but I only use them for more serious hiking.

Not to be too much of a prick but, if you can afford $300 boots, you probably have no idea what the poor deal with. Also, if you think the quality of the chinese stuff at walmart is acceptable, then we have a huge difference of opinion. Most of the stuff at walmart(clothing specifically) is just garbage - nearly disposable. My $0.02 obviously.

BTW - thanks for tolerating my grumpy outbursts! :o

[bhunter]

Not to be too much of a prick but, if you can afford $300 boots, you probably have no idea what the poor deal with. Also, if you think the quality of the chinese stuff at walmart is acceptable, then we have a huge difference of opinion. Most of the stuff at walmart(clothing specifically) is just garbage - nearly disposable. My $0.02 obviously.



I consdered the $300.00 boots a tool to keep me out of an ER visit. That was the only way I justified them. Here in San Diego I dress in jeans or shorts most of the time. I buy both at Walmart or Costco. I have purchased highend jeans at Nordstoms that I occasionally wear. I can't discern any difference in quality. I only like button down collared white or blue oxford cloth dress shirts, but I'm usually wearing a Hanes Tagless Pocket T in grey or tan. I do splurge on Pendleton Wool shirts with the reinforced elbows. In shoes, despite being to the right, I wear leftist Birkenstock sandles, Uggs, and hiking boots.

I do wish I still lived in an area where I could dress for colder weather. This time of year I miss the change in seasons.


BTW - thanks for tolerating my grumpy outbursts! :o

I've been quite grumpy myself. It's been 98 degrees here with high humidity and I was up all night ferreting out a server problem.

[djv8ga]

Gotta chime in. I don't know about shoes, but China makes a terrible metal product. If you built Hot Rods, you would run from anything Chinese if possible.

[Oerets]

I have learned the hard way. You get what you pay for in footwear. Same goes for Booze, guns and women. Along with others but the list is long.




Barney

[bhunter]

Gotta chime in. I don't know about shoes, but China makes a terrible metal product. If you built Hot Rods, you would run from anything Chinese if possible.

I hate Chinese tools and most of their metal products; however, I do have a wok that has served me well for the last 20 years. This reminds me I must get to my Chinese Refrain thread and update it.

[d-ray657]

I have learned the hard way. You get what you pay for in footwear. Same goes for Booze, guns and women. Along with others but the list is long.




Barney

Except for Nike!

Regards,

D-Ray

[merrylander]

Not quite sure how the Chinese do it but we somehow wound up with a made in China blanket. Florence put it in the wash and after it had gone through wash, rinse and spin all we found in the machine was summat that looked like wet grey cardboard mush. It had been a blue blanket.

[JJIII]

Not quite sure how the Chinese do it but we somehow wound up with a made in China blanket. Florence put it in the wash and after it had gone through wash, rinse and spin all we found in the machine was summat that looked like wet grey cardboard mush. It had been a blue blanket.

Ahhhh! The inscrutable Chinese! A blanket at night... oatmeal in the morning!:)

[piece-itpete]

Remember when Made in Japan meant junk? Then they were taking over the world :)

China produces their parts sold here to American specifiations - they make them to their customers spec, whether that's Auto Zone or Walmart. The same equipment that makes junk rotors can make good ones....

Why does the left think American poor are more worthy than Chinese poor? So much for the brotherhood of man and death of nationstates :p

Pete

[d-ray657]

Remember when Made in Japan meant junk? Then they were taking over the world :)

China produces their parts sold here to American specifiations - they make them to their customers spec, whether that's Auto Zone or Walmart. The same equipment that makes junk rotors can make good ones....

Why does the left think American poor are more worthy than Chinese poor? So much for the brotherhood of man and death of nationstates :p

Pete

I thought that globalism was a major bugaboo for the right. :eek:

Put another way - Who says that America's corporate masters are more worthy than china's ruling class? :rolleyes:

Regards,

D-Ray

[piece-itpete]

It's one of those issues that blur far right and left I'm afraid.

But yes, all barbarian nations must bow before the Middle Kingdom :)

Pete

[d-ray657]

I just waiting for the Church Lady to get up and do her Wall Street Satan dance.

Regards,

D-Ray