1st Amendment Violation?

[BlueStreak]

So, would it be "...making a law respecting an establishment of religion..." to require that license plates bear the words, "In God we Trust"? And requiring those who don't want it there to pay extra to cover it up?

http://au.org/blogs/legislative/georgia-bill-would-require-religious-display-on-all-license-plates

I think if your using financial pressure, or any other government backed fiat, to push religion, at the very least, you are crossing the line every bit as egregiously as Atheists who throw a fit and file suits over nativity scenes.

Worship (Or not.) as you wish, leave others to freely choose their own path. It's really very simple.

Why can't people figure that out?

Maybe they're afraid that if they allow this freedom, that their religion will fade out and cease to exist due to a lack of interest?

I think so.

Dave

[Charles]

The only thing I would allow to be written on a license plate beyond the classification, identifying number, state, and date of expiration would be "Tax Receipt".

That's all they are.

Chas

[BlueStreak]

The only thing I would allow to be written on a license plate beyond the classification, identifying number, state, and date of expiration would be "Tax Receipt".

That's all they are.

Chas

Correct. And so are the registration tags I pay $29 a year for and the safety inspection that costs $16 a year, and of course we can't forget the 4% property tax...............Welcome to Virginia, deep, vibrant red, true patriotic republicans who believe in low taxation. (But, only for billionaires and churches. Taxes are for the little people.:rolleyes:)

Speaking of taxes; Maybe if we reminded the religious folk of their organizations tax free status and suggest that if they want to gain political power that their church should pony up? I can hear the preachers howling and screaming cries of "SATAN!!!" now.:rolleyes:

Dave

[Fast_Eddie]

I'm sure Republicans oppose it, since it is a tax.

[piece-itpete]

It says In God We Trust on money? On monuments. Heck in this country it's everywhere.

Pete

[merrylander]

they need to add the rest - "In God we trust, everybody else pays cash."

[bhunter]

Correct. And so are the registration tags I pay $29 a year for and the safety inspection that costs $16 a year, and of course we can't forget the 4% property tax...............Welcome to Virginia, deep, vibrant red, true patriotic republicans who believe in low taxation. (But, only for billionaires and churches. Taxes are for the little people.:rolleyes:)

Speaking of taxes; Maybe if we reminded the religious folk of their organizations tax free status and suggest that if they want to gain political power that their church should pony up? I can hear the preachers howling and screaming cries of "SATAN!!!" now.:rolleyes:

Dave

$29.00? You'd really hate California's. I just paid mine for my ten year old vehicle. It was $289.00 plus the $65.00 for the mandated smog check.

I'd think that the slogan on the license is "push back" against the anti-religion groups that insist on eliminating all religious symbolism in the public arena. I think the motivation itself undermines the legitimacy of their argument. "In God We Trust" ought not be on any license plate. Given the sordid state of the world, I'm not sure I'd place much trust in God.

[whell]

It says In God We Trust on money? On monuments. Heck in this country it's everywhere.

Pete

Correct. Therefore, I believe that the phrase "In God We Trust" has become a "cultural icon", just like the Christmas tree. Therefore, there should be no objection to Georgia wishing to imprint a cultural icon on its license plates. If someone objects the the cultural icon on their license plate, why should tax payers be forced to foot the bill to cover up the icon? Let the individual who objects pay to cover it up.

[BlueStreak]

$29.00? You'd really hate California's. I just paid mine for my ten year old vehicle. It was $289.00 plus the $65.00 for the mandated smog check.

I'd think that the slogan on the license is "push back" against the anti-religion groups that insist on eliminating all religious symbolism in the public arena. I think the motivation itself undermines the legitimacy of their argument. "In God We Trust" ought not be on any license plate. Given the sordid state of the world, I'm not sure I'd place much trust in God.

My property tax for both vehicles last year came to almost $1,200.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Correct. Therefore, I believe that the phrase "In God We Trust" has become a "cultural icon", just like the Christmas tree. Therefore, there should be no objection to Georgia wishing to imprint a cultural icon on its license plates. If someone objects the the cultural icon on their license plate, why should tax payers be forced to foot the bill to cover up the icon? Let the individual who objects pay to cover it up.

It is not a "cultural icon", it is a religious statement. If you want "In God We Trust" on your plates, buy a Sharpie and scrawl it on there. I won't complain, because it didn't cost me anything. Write anything you want on your plates for all I care. "Career Corporate Stooge", might be a good one for Republicans.:p

If you want to erect a twenty ton granite Ten Commandments tablet on your own property, at your own expense, by all means---make it happen.

It's when you use public facilities and public money to advance your religious views, or the lack thereof as the case may be, that a line, (Oh, excuse me. I believe the historic term is "Wall".) is crossed.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Correct. Therefore, I believe that the phrase "In God We Trust" has become a "cultural icon", just like the Christmas tree. Therefore, there should be no objection to Georgia wishing to imprint a cultural icon on its license plates. If someone objects the the cultural icon on their license plate, why should tax payers be forced to foot the bill to cover up the icon? Let the individual who objects pay to cover it up.

My way nobody pays for anything other than a piece of metal with a number stamped on it.

But, if you want to get down to it, here in VA we have personalized plates. You can have mountains, a beach scene, military/patriotic regalia......there is a large assortment of themes to choose from, including religion base symbols and what-not. But you pay extra for it. And that is how it should be. I don't see why everyone should have to have someone elses superstitions, delusions or hobbies displayed on their plates, then have to pay to have it masked.

I'm thinking it's just another pathetic, immature effort on the part of some people to protect dying mythologies and press their beliefs on others.:p

Dave

[piece-itpete]

Ah yes, the wall that has writing by the wall writer on a wall built by public funds on public property?

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?"

(Quote enscribed on the Jefferson Memorial) (not bad eh? ;))

Pete

[BlueStreak]

It says In God We Trust on money? On monuments. Heck in this country it's everywhere.

Pete

And that problem can be corrected. Everywhere except on personal/private property. At that point is where you violate the "...impeding free excercise of religon..." part of the 1st.:)

Dave

[whell]

It is not a "cultural icon", it is a religious statement. If you want "In God We Trust" on your plates, buy a Sharpie and scrawl it on there.
Dave

Nope, sorry. The phrase officially became the national motto in 1956 and began appearing on paper currency in 1957. In fact, it was affirmed in the House earlier this month as the national motto by an overwhelming margin: only 9 "no" votes and 2 "abstain" votes.

Therefore, it is an icon of culture in this country. You don't want it on your license plate, you can get out a Sharpie and cross it out....right after you move to Georgia.

[BlueStreak]

"I can think of no society, ridden with priests, that did not end in tyranny."

"The wall of separation between church and state should remain high and impenetrable."

Both from Jefferson.

So, the words on his memorial are words originated from him. It's a quote on a grave, basically. That is not an indication that he believed his beliefs should be shove onto other people.

"It is of no concern to me, if my neighbor worships twenty Gods or none at all. It neither taxes my pocket, nor breaks my leg." ----also Jefferson

We can go on like this all day, Pete.

Why can't some people just come to grips with knowing they have no right to press their religion on others? Unless they are afraid it will eventually be invalidated by lack of popular demand?

Dave

[d-ray657]

Nope, sorry. The phrase officially became the national motto in 1956 and began appearing on paper currency in 1957. In fact, it was affirmed in the House earlier this month as the national motto by an overwhelming margin: only 9 "no" votes and 2 "abstain" votes.

Therefore, it is an icon of culture in this country. You don't want it on your license plate, you can get out a Sharpie and cross it out....right after you move to Georgia.

If it has become nothing more than a cultural icon, then religious people should object to the use of the phrase on license plates. The overuse of a religious phrase by government has deprived it of its religious meaning. It simply shows how intermingling religion and government perverts both of them.

Regards,

D-Ray

[BlueStreak]

Nope, sorry. The phrase officially became the national motto in 1956 and began appearing on paper currency in 1957. In fact, it was affirmed in the House earlier this month as the national motto by an overwhelming margin: only 9 "no" votes and 2 "abstain" votes.

Therefore, it is an icon of culture in this country. You don't want it on your license plate, you can get out a Sharpie and cross it out....right after you move to Georgia.

Ahhhh, the 1950s. Interesting period. Some of our most interesting propaganda comes from that era, doesn't it? "Commies" in every closet and so on,.......oh, there's lots of it. Government sponsored conformity, followed by the counter-culture revolution of the 1960s. Action-reaction. Tyranny, followed by rebellion. Kind of like the rise of organized labor following the industrial revolution.

Last I heard, Church attendence continues to decline. How does that make you feel, Mike?

Personally, I couldn't care less if more people do go back to church. It's really none of my business, how others choose to worship. And as long as no one tries to make it my business, there will be no trouble.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

If it has become nothing more than a cultural icon, then religious people should object to the use of the phrase on license plates. The overuse of a religious phrase by government has deprived it of its religious meaning. It simply shows how intermingling religion and government perverts both of them.

Regards,

D-Ray

Excellent post. On AUs website, one of the Clergy who runs the organization, Rev. Barry Lynn* said, "Intertwining governent and religion reduces religion to politics and elevates politicians to the status of holymen."

One of my favorite quotes. In one sentence, it illustrates the evil of theocracy.

*AU is NOT an Atheist organization.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

I enjoy pointing out that their actions don't support the current view, including Jeffersons :p

Pete

[whell]

If it has become nothing more than a cultural icon, then religious people should object to the use of the phrase on license plates. The overuse of a religious phrase by government has deprived it of its religious meaning. It simply shows how intermingling religion and government perverts both of them.

Regards,

D-Ray

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I also find the vehement opposition to occasional religious imagery or slogans to be tiresome and non-productive. We could debate the establishment clause all day but suffice to say that on this topic, like so many others, the polarization of views is doing more damage than otherwise.

[whell]

A

Last I heard, Church attendence continues to decline. How does that make you feel, Mike?



I could actually care less. Sadly, haven't been to church myself in quite a while. However, in a debate about the meaning and merits of the establishment clause, it matters not whether you or I go to church regularly or not, does it? Nor does it matter how we "feel" about it.

[BlueStreak]

I could actually care less. Sadly, haven't been to church myself in quite a while. However, in a debate about the meaning and merits of the establishment clause, it matters not whether you or I go to church regularly or not, does it? Nor does it matter how we "feel" about it.

Correct.

Now,---------it's nap time. Back for another twelve tonight.

Dave

[finnbow]

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I also find the vehement opposition to occasional religious imagery or slogans to be tiresome and non-productive. We could debate the establishment clause all day but suffice to say that on this topic, like so many others, the polarization of views is doing more damage than otherwise.

... and you don't find the incessant "woe is me" caterwauling from the Christian Right about how Christianity is "under attack" in this country to be tiresome? You can bet your @ss that the Georgia goober who introduced this bill knows full well the provocative (and maybe unconstitutional nature of his effort. It's all about rubbing Christianity in the face of non-Christians.

It's no different than Faux News throwing a contrived hissyfit last week because Obama didn't mention God in his Thanksgiving youtube address. Faux conveniently forgot to mention that Dubya (and Slick Willie) both omitted mentioning God in several of their annual Thanksgiving addresses and that Obama's written comments did mention God. As far as I'm concerned, every single leader of the Christian right is nothing more than a modern day Elmer Gantry.

[Wasillaguy]

"As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden."

The roots of this country are Christian.

[finnbow]

The roots of this country are Christian.

The First Amendment says otherwise, methinks.

[BlueStreak]

"As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden."

The roots of this country are Christian.

Did you read this off of your palm?:p

The religious roots of this country lie here;

From Wiki;

"The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion......"

From here on is my opinion;

1) The government cannot attempt to establish a state religion, nor can it dictate to anyone a specific religious belief or prevent them from exercizing their right to worship (Or abstain from worship.) as they see fit.

2) No other model you attempt to present can possibly demonstrate free will.
America is a predominantly Christian country, but it is not a "Christian Nation".
This term implies exclusivity and social/political dominance.

3) Worship as you see fit. This is your right. Attempt to dominate others and press your religious beliefs (Or lack thereof.) upon them and you are in for a fight. At least you should be.

4) Escape from religious tyranny is one of the reasons the Puritans came here in the first place. Remember, Monarchy is religion based. Kings are coronated by a bishop. Royal bloodlines are believed to be decendants of Christ. Kings force their subjects to adopt the beliefs of the crown. I.E-Nationalized religion.

Of course, the moment they arrived, they began establishing their own form of religious tyranny. Didn't they?

These four points are why the first amendment exists in the first place.

Did you read the whole thread?

Dave

[painter]

"As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden."

The roots of this country are Christian.




I agree! Never in my seventy-two years have I heard or read so much condemnation of religion.
It seems to me...a line is always being drawn in the sand on any subject. There's plenty of room in both heaven and hell...let you conscience be your guide. ;)

[finnbow]

I agree! Never in my seventy-two years have I heard or read so much condemnation of religion.
It seems to me...a line is always being drawn in the sand on any subject. There's plenty of room in both heaven and hell...let you conscience be your guide. ;)

I didn't condemn religion. I condemned the Bible-thumping charlatans who try to use religion and the myth of Christian persecution for political purposes.

[Fast_Eddie]

I didn't condemn religion. I condemned the Bible-thumping charlatans who try to use religion and the myth of Christian persecution for political purposes.

Why do you hate America?

[Charles]

Mixing politics and religion for a topic of discussion.

Ain't this lovely???

Ya'll have fun, I think I'll do something important like pick boogers out of my nose.

Chas

[bhunter]

My property tax for both vehicles last year came to almost $1,200.

Dave

They're actually taxing the vehicle as property by a percentage? That would be a damn good reason to have and use the least valuable car you can find. I thought you were referencing real estate in your original tax. Please don't tell this tax scheme to the California Assembly. BTW, what's your sales tax rate?

[finnbow]

Mixing politics and religion ....

Something started (at least in contemporary politics) by Ronnie the Magnificent.

[Wasillaguy]

The First Amendment says otherwise, methinks.

You think incorrectly. The first amendment says nothing about religion's role in the roots of this country, and it shouldn't, given that the subject is religious freedom. Doesn't change the fact that our laws were based on Christian principles, written up by Christian patriots. Anyone who's read any American history knows this is true.
The founders made it clear that the country will have no "national religion", but they also made it very clear that they felt the Bible's 10 commandments made a pretty solid foundation for our rules of law.

[finnbow]

...but they also made it very clear that they felt the Bible's 10 commandments made a pretty solid foundation for our rules of law.

Gotta call BS on this one. Only 3 of the Ten Commandments have found their way into our laws (thou shall not kill, steal, or bear false witness). I know of no laws addressing the issues addressed in Commandments 1-5, 7, and 10.

As for your Christian patriot myth, ponder these quotes a bit:
http://hwarmstrong.com/christian-founding-fathers-2.htm

[whell]

Something started (at least in contemporary politics) by Ronnie the Magnificent.

You're either conveniently forgetful or purposefully forgetful. Lest we not forget Jimmy "I have comitted adultery in my heart many times" Carter.

[finnbow]

You're either conveniently forgetful or purposefully forgetful. Lest we not forget Jimmy "I have comitted adultery in my heart many times" Carter.

Nope. Carter himself was a Baptist, but he didn't actively seek the support of Robertson, Falwell, et al.

Leaders of the New Christian Right coalesced around the candidacy of Ronald Reagan. Reagan alone embraced the political efforts of the NCR and pledged to work for enactment of its agenda (see chaps. 5-7 in T. Baker, Steed, and Moreland 1983). He won by impressive margins and Republicans, with a clearly conservation platform, took control of the Senate for the first time in over twenty years. Although some scholars (Zwier 1982) cautioned against drawing such conclusions, the New Christian Right was credited with securing those victories as well as with successfully influencing the nation's political agenda (Moen 1994, 164).

http://are.as.wvu.edu/lebeau1.htm

Jerry Falwell : "The Moral Majority backs the presidential candidacy of
Ronald Reagan and helps sweep him into office in dramatic
fashion."

[whell]

Gotta call BS on this one. Only 3 of the Ten Commandments have found their way into our laws (thou shall not kill, steal, or bear false witness). I know of no laws addressing the issues addressed in Commandments 1-5, 7, and 10.

As for your Christian patriot myth, ponder these quotes a bit:
http://hwarmstrong.com/christian-founding-fathers-2.htm

How 'bout these quotes:

From James Madison:
The belief in a God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities to be impressed with it.
Letter to Rev. Frederick Beasley (1825-11-20)

Samuel Adams:
As neither reason requires nor religion permits the contrary, every man living in or out of a state of civil society has a right peaceably and quietly to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.
‘Just and true liberty, equal and impartial liberty,’ in matters spiritual and temporal, is a thing that all men are clearly entitled to by the eternal and immutable laws of God and nature, as well as by the law of nations and all well-grounded municipal laws, which must have their foundation in the former.

Two by John Adams:

On June 21, 1776, John Adams wrote:
“Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure, than they have it now, they may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty.”

On August 28, 1811, in a letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush, John Adams wrote:
“Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not only of republicanism and of all free government, but of social felicity under all governments and in all the combinations of human society.”

[whell]

Nope. Carter himself was a Baptist, but he didn't actively seek the support of Robertson, Falwell, et al.

Leaders of the New Christian Right coalesced around the candidacy of Ronald Reagan. Reagan alone embraced the political efforts of the NCR and pledged to work for enactment of its agenda (see chaps. 5-7 in T. Baker, Steed, and Moreland 1983). He won by impressive margins and Republicans, with a clearly conservation platform, took control of the Senate for the first time in over twenty years. Although some scholars (Zwier 1982) cautioned against drawing such conclusions, the New Christian Right was credited with securing those victories as well as with successfully influencing the nation's political agenda (Moen 1994, 164).

http://are.as.wvu.edu/lebeau1.htm

Jerry Falwell : "The Moral Majority backs the presidential candidacy of
Ronald Reagan and helps sweep him into office in dramatic
fashion."

What? You think the Christian right wasn't tired of stag-flation and sky-rocketing misery indexes too? :)

[finnbow]

What? You think the Christian right wasn't tired of stag-flation and sky-rocketing misery indexes too? :)

Probably so, but more interested in having a willing accomplice in the White House who would facilitate the Rapture.:p

[finnbow]

BTW, here are some of these wonderful Christian values of which I speak:

http://www.kentucky.com/2011/11/29/1977453/small-pike-county-church-votes.html

[Bigerik]

Yup, doin the Lords work.

[Wasillaguy]

That's what you got? Weak attempt at deflection when you have to dig up a crazy dude with a flock of forty in Kentucky.

[d-ray657]

Whether the constitutional framers were motivated by their religious faith in working to found the country is irrelevant to the question of whether the government can take action for the purpose of promoting purely religious goals. The First Amendment prohibits government action promoting religion. Requiring that the phrase "In God We Trust" be displayed on all motor vehicles has a religious purpose on its face. It invokes trust in a supreme being. It is therefore improper - indeed a violation of the First Amendment. It is a violation first because it requires the expenditure of public funds to promote a religious message - trust in the supreme being. Second it requires citizens to display that religious message or pay a penalty for failing to do so.

I'm in the camp the believes that the legislator knows his proposal violates the First Amendment but he isn't going to let that minor inconvenience get in the way of his pandering.

Regards,

D-Ray

[BlueStreak]

They're actually taxing the vehicle as property by a percentage? That would be a damn good reason to have and use the least valuable car you can find. I thought you were referencing real estate in your original tax. Please don't tell this tax scheme to the California Assembly. BTW, what's your sales tax rate?

7%.

11.5% on prepared meals, I guess the commonwealth feels it deserves a tip too.

But, we do have the best hams in the world.

Dave

P.S. The natives here have a nice little saying; "Virginia is a commonwealth. That means, if you aint wealthy, they're gonna treat you common as shit."

[BlueStreak]

"As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden."

The roots of this country are Christian.

Hey Finn, a guy from Wassila is quoting Chauncey Gardner..........

Think about it.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Whether the constitutional framers were motivated by their religious faith in working to found the country is irrelevant to the question of whether the government can take action for the purpose of promoting purely religious goals. The First Amendment prohibits government action promoting religion. Requiring that the phrase "In God We Trust" be displayed on all motor vehicles has a religious purpose on its face. It invokes trust in a supreme being. It is therefore improper - indeed a violation of the First Amendment. It is a violation first because it requires the expenditure of public funds to promote a religious message - trust in the supreme being. Second it requires citizens to display that religious message or pay a penalty for failing to do so.

I'm in the camp the believes that the legislator knows his proposal violates the First Amendment but he isn't going to let that minor inconvenience get in the way of his pandering.

Regards,

D-Ray

F**kin', eh! Spot on and absolutely correct!

WORD!

Dave

[whell]

I'm in the camp the believes that the legislator knows his proposal violates the First Amendment but he isn't going to let that minor inconvenience get in the way of his pandering.


While I don't disagree with you, I'm in the camp that believes that when folks dial up the ACLU when townsfolk or city employees decide to put up a creche on the corner of the city's court house lawn, they also know that it is not the city's attempt to establish a local religion. It also doesn't change the fact that the US government has "secularized" the phrase "In God We Trust" by making it the national motto.

[merrylander]

While I don't disagree with you, I'm in the camp that believes that when folks dial up the ACLU when townsfolk or city employees decide to put up a creche on the corner of the city's court house lawn, they also know that it is not the city's attempt to establish a local religion. It also doesn't change the fact that the US government has "secularized" the phrase "In God We Trust" by making it the national motto.

They are not doing that this year in DC because they could not find three wise men. I believe that they are still looking for a virgin, however they have more than enough jackasses for the stable.

[merrylander]

Reading all the quotations posted here one thing that really shows is the absolute arrogance of Christians in suggesting the non-Christians cannot possess moral values, what absolute BS.

[BlueStreak]

They are not doing that this year in DC because they could not find three wise men. I believe that they are still looking for a virgin, however they have more than enough jackasses for the stable.

A large portion of them can be found in the Senate, with teabags glued to their heads.

Dave

[whell]

They are not doing that this year in DC because they could not find three wise men. I believe that they are still looking for a virgin, however they have more than enough jackasses for the stable.

That reminds me of a bit of local "legend": the Eastern Michigan University water tower, which looms above the main campus like a giant phallic symbol. It is said that the water tower will crumble and fall to the ground if a virgin ever graduates from EMU!

http://www.emich.edu/walkingtour/images/watertower3.jpg

[piece-itpete]

Ya'll have fun, I think I'll do something important like pick boogers out of my nose.

Chas

As long as they are Christian boogers.

Something started (at least in contemporary politics) by Ronnie the Magnificent.

It's been around forever.

While I agree largely with D on this, the underlying issues are far different. Reading the various quotes the athiests love to overlook the fact that they are generally attacking the organization behind most organised religion, not Christanity.

And if the Tripoli treaty shows we ain't a Christian nation, why does it specifically say, the government?

The plain fact is that the Bible was taught openly in public schools thoughout the country. What is freedom? A bunch of parents get together starting a school for their kids, build the school, hire a teacher. They can't teach their own children what they wish? We need the all wise all powerful Feds to tell us what's right, please, please help us poor stupid folk!


They are not doing that this year in DC because they could not find three wise men. I believe that they are still looking for a virgin, however they have more than enough jackasses for the stable.

ROTFLMAO!!

Pete

[merrylander]

That reminds me of a bit of local "legend": the Eastern Michigan University water tower, which looms above the main campus like a giant phallic symbol. It is said that the water tower will crumble and fall to the ground if a virgin ever graduates from EMU!

http://www.emich.edu/walkingtour/images/watertower3.jpg

It has been said that should a virgin enter Trafalgar Square the lions will roar and Lord Nelson will doff his hat.

[Wasillaguy]

Hey Finn, a guy from Wassila is quoting Chauncey Gardner..........

Think about it.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave

You think that's funny, here's a real riot- a guy from Wasilla pointing out that the hypocrite has a quote in every one of his posts that directly conflicts with his position!
I don't care who you are, now that's funny.

[finnbow]

You think that's funny, here's a real riot- a guy from Wasilla pointing out that the hypocrite has a quote in every one of his posts that directly conflicts with his position!
I don't care who you are, now that's funny.

Have you seen the movie?

[d-ray657]

Aw heck, Finn. You should have stuck with "I like to watch." It might be easier to understand.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Wasillaguy]

Have you seen the movie?

Don't watch many movies. Pretty much the entire industry is far left, and their bias is apparent in many productions. Even if the show isn't biased, I've no interest in propping up the socialist state of California with my entertainment dollars. I much prefer activities that support middle class jobs in the heartland. You know- drinking, fishing, hunting.

[d-ray657]

Besides that, one has to think about what is going on in "Being There" to understand the humor. There are no people poking each other in the eye.

Regards,

D-Ray

[finnbow]

Don't watch many movies. Pretty much the entire industry is far left, and their bias is apparent in many productions. Even if the show isn't biased, I've no interest in propping up the socialist state of California with my entertainment dollars. I much prefer activities that support middle class jobs in the heartland. You know- drinking, fishing, hunting.

Well, WG, you missed one of the best movies ever made (IMHO) dealing with the vapid nature of politics in this country in a comedic format, Being There (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_There). It featured career-defining performances for Peter Sellers, Shirley MacLaine, and Jack Warden on top of an excellent script and plot - An extraordinary and essential movie for anyone with an interest in politics and a sense of humor.

I too like drinking, fishing and hunting, but don't think that enjoying them means that one must remain oblivious to all else around them. As for not propping up the socialist state of California by not watching movies, that's just a silly rationalization of the lifestyle you have chosen to lead. You obviously have a computer. The technology behind it came from either Silicon Valley or Redmond, WA. How about music? Other than the insipid dreck coming out of Nashville, just about all modern music is made by icky liberals.

FWIW, I fished the Kenai River on several occassions and caught some real nice Kings. My main thing is bowhunting though. I've taken upwards of 75 deer over the years with a bow. Just got a pretty nice one a couple of weeks back, FWIW.

[merrylander]

OK so you got me curious so I just ordered the DVD.

[Bigerik]

Brilliant movie, Rob. You'll love it.

[Bigerik]

Don't watch many movies. Pretty much the entire industry is far left, and their bias is apparent in many productions. Even if the show isn't biased, I've no interest in propping up the socialist state of California with my entertainment dollars. I much prefer activities that support middle class jobs in the heartland. You know- drinking, fishing, hunting.

Good plan. Cause if the socialist state of California should fail, it won't have any impact on you, right?

[BlueStreak]

Have you seen the movie?

It's too complicated, you have to think a little, and there is no violence or flagwaiving involved. So, a wingnuts attention span expires about 3 minutes in.:p

Dave

[Wasillaguy]

Shirley MacLaine? That seals it, I'll remain oblivious. I much prefer oblivious to nauseous.

[BlueStreak]

Don't watch many movies. Pretty much the entire industry is far left, and their bias is apparent in many productions. Even if the show isn't biased, I've no interest in propping up the socialist state of California with my entertainment dollars. I much prefer activities that support middle class jobs in the heartland. You know- drinking, fishing, hunting.

Yeah, we've all heard about the millions of jobs that are created by drunken midwestern rednecks, and seen the impressive high rolling trailer park estates that they live in. Spare me. I grew up in the midwest, what sustains their employment, (Or fails to, actually.), is people in the rest of the country being able to afford the products midwesterners make.

Hows that working out? Taken a drive through the rust belt lately?

Dave

[Wasillaguy]

Good plan. Cause if the socialist state of California should fail, it won't have any impact on you, right?

It's already failed, just haven't felt all the pain yet. Yes, of course it impacts me and everyone else on the planet. What's your point? I should continue to consume their propaganda packaged as entertainment because I'll be "impacted" when it all implodes?

[finnbow]

Shirley MacLaine? That seals it, I'll remain oblivious. I much prefer oblivious to nauseous.

Enjoy wallowing in your obliviousness/ignorance. I'm no fan of MacLaine's politics, but she's awesome in this movie. Your loss. Their are plenty of boorish assholes in the entertainment industry, the arts or that are authors. If they make good art, I enjoy it without respect to their politics or boorishness. Otherwise, you simply deprive yourself of some good entertainment while reveling in your own closed-mindedness.

Are you sure you aren't my mother-in-law?:p

[BlueStreak]

Shirley MacLaine? That seals it, I'll remain oblivious. I much prefer oblivious to nauseous.

We've noticed your oblivion.

Dave

[Wasillaguy]

Yeah, we've all heard about the millions of jobs that are created by drunken midwestern rednecks, and seen the impressive high rolling trailer park estates that they live in. Spare me. I grew up in the midwest, what sustains their employment, (Or fails to, actually.), is people in the rest of the country being able to afford the products midwesterners make.

Hows that working out? Taken a drive through the rust belt lately?

Dave

Wow Dave, you grew up in the midwest? How did you survive the plight? Poor thing, it's surprising you got writin' skills at all. Did you have to eat 'possum to keep from starvin' and such?

[d-ray657]

OK so you got me curious so I just ordered the DVD.

We expect to read a report on the movie, complete with at least three instances where you compare and contrast it with the coverage of the 2008 campaign. You get extra credit for any references to gotcha journalism. :D

Regards,

D-Ray

[finnbow]

We expect to read a report on the movie, complete with at least three instances where you compare and contrast it with the coverage of the 2008 campaign. You get extra credit for any references to gotcha journalism. :D

Regards,

D-Ray

I think I've concluded that Chauncey is smarter than nearly all of this year's GOP candidates, save Romney and Huntsman. Unlike Bachmann, Cain, Perry, et al., at least Chauncey didn't actually think he was saying intelligent stuff.

[BlueStreak]

Wow Dave, you grew up in the midwest? How did you survive the plight? Poor thing, it's surprising you got writin' skills at all. Did you have to eat 'possum to keep from starvin' and such?

When I grew up in Ohio, in the 1970s, they had one of the best public and vocational school systems in the country. We also had an immense amount of heavy industry.

Then one day someone decided that we had it too good. That competiton with lower cost nations would be good for us. We'd be sooooo much better off.

How'd that work out, genius?

Dave

[bhunter]

I'm in the camp the believes that the legislator knows his proposal violates the First Amendment but he isn't going to let that minor inconvenience get in the way of his pandering.

Regards,

D-Ray

That is also my position. In fact, while historic Christian traditions and slogans ought stand, I see little reason to create new ones to further intermingle government and religion. If they are so hell bent on religion in government, perhaps they could go to a place where Sharia law is operative and fight the proverbial good fight.

[bhunter]

OK so you got me curious so I just ordered the DVD.

Finn needs to get a kick back for the increased sales. I'm planning on also ordering "Being There."

[JJIII]

Things sure get personal around here in a hurry don't they?

[Charles]

Things sure get personal around here in a hurry don't they?

I can't argue with you on that point.

Chas

[BlueStreak]

That is also my position. In fact, while historic Christian traditions and slogans ought stand, I see little reason to create new ones to further intermingle government and religion. If they are so hell bent on religion in government, perhaps they could go to a place where Sharia law is operative and fight the proverbial good fight.

Excellent post!

Dave

[JJIII]

I can't argue with you on that point.

Chas

Anybody that would argue with that is just an ignorant asshole and ought to be shot!:D

(That's funny... I don't feel any better. Hmmmm.)

[BlueStreak]

When the movie first came out.....I believe it was 1979-1980, it didn't do very well. Most people didn't get it, they saw the name Peter Sellers and assumed it was more "Pink Panther" type sophmoric humor. When they had to do a little thinking to get the big picture, they were disappointed. This is America after all. If it involves looking under the thin veneer to figure out a subtle or complex plot, they'll give up. If they don't see any car wrecks, bombs exploding, T&A or silly John Wayne style he-man flagwaiving, the wingnuts especially, will get up and exit the theater in a huff. (Not that I don't enjoy some of that myself....But, I can also enjoy a movie like "Being There". The film dooesn't HAVE to contain those elements, for me.)

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Things sure get personal around here in a hurry don't they?

Familiarity breeds contempt.

One of the reasons I come here.

Dave

[merrylander]

Things sure get personal around here in a hurry don't they?

I gather that you don't consider it to be personal when some flag waving asshole pops in here and insults everything and everybody?:rolleyes:

[merrylander]

When the movie first came out.....I believe it was 1979-1980, it didn't do very well. Most people didn't get it, they saw the name Peter Sellers and assumed it was more "Pink Panther" type sophmoric humor. When they had to do a little thinking to get the big picture, they were disappointed. This is America after all. If it involves looking under the thin veneer to figure out a subtle or complex plot, they'll give up. If they don't see any car wrecks, bombs exploding, T&A or silly John Wayne style he-man flagwaiving, the wingnuts especially, will get up and exit the theater in a huff. (Not that I don't enjoy some of that myself....But, I can also enjoy a movie like "Being There". The film dooesn't HAVE to contain those elements, for me.)

Dave

Shucks, you mean there is no sex or nudity and the F word is not in every sentence.:confused:

[JJIII]

familiarity breeds contempt.

One of the reasons i come here.

Dave

l m a o!:D

[piece-itpete]

....

Are you sure you aren't my mother-in-law?:p

ROTFLMAO! Post of the month.

I can't argue with you on that point.

Chas

And it's a cryin shame too :D

Pete

[d-ray657]

Finn needs to get a kick back for the increased sales. I'm planning on also ordering "Being There."

Are we establishing some consensus here? :cool:

I'd be surprised if you didn't like it.

Regards,

D-Ray

[d-ray657]

Shucks, you mean there is no sex or nudity and the F word is not in every sentence.:confused:

Well, Chauncy does like to watch. ;)

Regards,

D-Ray

[finnbow]

Well, Chauncy does like to watch. ;)

Regards,

D-Ray

I'm looking forward to the upcoming reviews from the two "Being There" neophytes. The attempted seduction scene by Shirley MacLaine is priceless IMHO.

[JJIII]

I gather that you don't consider it to be personal when some flag waving asshole pops in here and insults everything and everybody?:rolleyes:

I'm not pointing my finger at any one person. I just don't see the value in responding in kind. You know the old saying.. "Lie down with dogs and you get up with fleas". There is another... "Sticks and stones...." You get my drift.

You get my drift.

[merrylander]

As the farmer said when a passerby complained about his hitting the jackass with a 2 x 4, "I'm not being cruel, I'm just trying to get its attention."

[piece-itpete]

Can I join in the fun?

"Shut your festering gob you tit! Your type makes me puke! You vacuous toffee-nosed malodorous pervert!"

:D

Pete

[d-ray657]

I llke to watch. :rolleyes:

Regards,

D-Ray

[Charles]

Anybody that would argue with that is just an ignorant asshole and ought to be shot!:D

(That's funny... I don't feel any better. Hmmmm.)

To be completely honest, I'm fast working up to one of those "What IS the point of this exercise?" moments like I had about a year ago.

Chas

[Wasillaguy]

When I grew up in Ohio, in the 1970s, they had one of the best public and vocational school systems in the country. We also had an immense amount of heavy industry.

Then one day someone decided that we had it too good. That competiton with lower cost nations would be good for us. We'd be sooooo much better off.

How'd that work out, genius?

Dave

I'm right there with you on NAFTA. Didn't like the idea then, don't like it now. We should be taxing the hell out of imports that compete with U.S. made products.

Now on the education thing, you can blame it on the loss of industry/funding if you want, but that doesn't explain why education sucks everywhere. Here in Alaska, they've been spending obscene amounts on education since the early 70's, yet the performance decline is as severe as anywhere else. The problems in education are systemic.

[piece-itpete]

To be completely honest, I'm fast working up to one of those "What IS the point of this exercise?" moments like I had about a year ago.

Chas

It's for the personal worth affirmation and intelligent discussion Chas!

Pete

PS I hope no one minds me today, I'm on a tear.

[merrylander]

I'm right there with you on NAFTA. Didn't like the idea then, don't like it now. We should be taxing the hell out of imports that compete with U.S. made products.

Now on the education thing, you can blame it on the loss of industry/funding if you want, but that doesn't explain why education sucks everywhere. Here in Alaska, they've been spending obscene amounts on education since the early 70's, yet the performance decline is as severe as anywhere else. The problems in education are systemic.

If you put tarriffs on cars coming from Canada the Big Three will be very unhappy with you.:D

For example the Chev Impalas are made in Oshawa, no idea what Ford and Chrysler make up there but I am sure they do some.

Speaking as a former educator the problem with the schools here are to many alleged "experts" interferring. If they would simply get the hell out of the way and let teachers teach we would be better off. Sooner or later it will dawn on these idiots that life is not a multi-part question.:rolleyes:

[merrylander]

To be completely honest, I'm fast working up to one of those "What IS the point of this exercise?" moments like I had about a year ago.

Chas

Absolutely no point whatsoever Chas, surely you knew that.

[d-ray657]

I'm right there with you on NAFTA. Didn't like the idea then, don't like it now. We should be taxing the hell out of imports that compete with U.S. made products.

Now on the education thing, you can blame it on the loss of industry/funding if you want, but that doesn't explain why education sucks everywhere. Here in Alaska, they've been spending obscene amounts on education since the early 70's, yet the performance decline is as severe as anywhere else. The problems in education are systemic.

I agree that the problems in education are systemic. The problem is with an economic system that leaves up to a third of households in poverty. There is a direct correlation between the economic status of a neighborhood and the level of academic success that occurs in the neighborhood schools.

Our culture is also a problem. The drivel that passes for entertainment on the boob tube has a numbing effect on the minds of its captives. We banned TV and video games on school nights and saw an increase in academic success in our family.

Our culture also fails to accord social status to teachers or to academic achievers. In the countries that are out-pacing us in academic success, teachers are recognized as leaders in their communities. Here, they are displayed in various portions of the media as selfish, overpaid, lazy drains on society. Intellectual capacity is reviled as "elitism." As a society we create dis-incentives to achieve academic success.

Regards,

D-Ray

[JJIII]

Can I join in the fun?

"Shut your festering gob you tit! Your type makes me puke! You vacuous toffee-nosed malodorous pervert!"

:D

Pete

Now that's more like it!:D

[JJIII]

To be completely honest, I'm fast working up to one of those "What IS the point of this exercise?" moments like I had about a year ago.

Chas

That is what I am afraid a lot of people are doing. There are a lot of intelligent people here with interesting things to say about a lot of different subjects. I would like to see more people join this forum but if it starts to look like so many other forums on the net, with people ranting and raving and calling each other names, why would anyone want to join?:( (I defer to Rodney King.:))

[finnbow]

Here, they are displayed in various portions of the media as selfish, overpaid, lazy drains on society. Intellectual capacity is reviled as "elitism."

I think that's a plank of one of our major national party's platform.:eek:

[BlueStreak]

I'm right there with you on NAFTA. Didn't like the idea then, don't like it now. We should be taxing the hell out of imports that compete with U.S. made products.

Now on the education thing, you can blame it on the loss of industry/funding if you want, but that doesn't explain why education sucks everywhere. Here in Alaska, they've been spending obscene amounts on education since the early 70's, yet the performance decline is as severe as anywhere else. The problems in education are systemic.

If you think about it, all of that started way before NAFTA. We had been steadily reducing tariffs and import taxes since the late sixties. Then came GATT, WTO, MFN and NAFTA. I think some wheeling & dealing took place during Nixons visit to China, that we were all too stoned to notice at the time.:p

I know the education systems problems run beyond funding. But, loss of revenue generation doesn't help anything either.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

If you put tarriffs on cars coming from Canada the Big Three will be very unhappy with you.:D

For example the Chev Impalas are made in Oshawa, no idea what Ford and Chrysler make up there but I am sure they do some.

Speaking as a former educator the problem with the schools here are to many alleged "experts" interferring. If they would simply get the hell out of the way and let teachers teach we would be better off. Sooner or later it will dawn on these idiots that life is not a multi-part question.:rolleyes:

My '09 HemiChallenger was built in Brampton, Ontario as are all of the Chargers. The parts come from all over the world. Engine castings come from the U.S., but are machined and assembled in Mexico. Sheet metal is stamped in the U.S., but welded together in the Brampton plant. The transmission came from France. Electronics from Japan and Taiwan.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

Ever see 'Armageddon' with Bruce Willis? A Russkie cosmonaut is banging on an inoperative control panel with a wrench, yelling 'Russian electronics. American electronics. All made in Taiwan!' :)

Given that car parts come from everywhere, I'd think that if we slapped tariffs on everything cars would get more expensive.

And the 'free trade' agreements really aren't. You'd think I could simply ship stuff to Canada like anywhere else, but that sure isn't so. Extra paperwork and steps, lots of extra fees, border delays, it could be much more efficient.

China, those thieves. Let's get'em :)

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Ever see 'Armageddon' with Bruce Willis? A Russkie cosmonaut is banging on an inoperative control panel with a wrench, yelling 'Russian electronics. American electronics. All made in Taiwan!' :)

Love that scene!

Given that car parts come from everywhere, I'd think that if we slapped tariffs on everything cars would get more expensive.

And the 'free trade' agreements really aren't. You'd think I could simply ship stuff to Canada like anywhere else, but that sure isn't so. Extra paperwork and steps, lots of extra fees, border delays, it could be much more efficient.

China, those thieves. Let's get'em :)

Pete

True. 'Cuz you know the last thing they're gonna do is bring any of that work here. Much easier to just raise prices to cover the increased tariffs. And, if the increase happens across the board, which it would, no one loses market share to any competitors.

Bastards.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

There is a bit of good news, my son in law works for the giant tooling company Kennemetal, they're closing production in India and... China? and bringing it back here. They pay pretty well too, kinda a good old fashioned skilled blue collar job.

Antitrust is a joke. I spoke to a plastic supplier a few years back, he said if one giant oil company raised raw material prices a penny everyone else did too.

Pete

[Charles]

That is what I am afraid a lot of people are doing. There are a lot of intelligent people here with interesting things to say about a lot of different subjects. I would like to see more people join this forum but if it starts to look like so many other forums on the net, with people ranting and raving and calling each other names, why would anyone want to join?:( (I defer to Rodney King.:))

I donno.

To listen to the current talking points and have your intelligence insulted if you disagree?

To have your overall comments picked apart, to be disparaged point by out of context point?

To be the big fish in the small pond?

Because you don't have enough overbearing assholes in your real life that you need to go online to find some more?

Because you can't have a dominatrix without a submissive?

Speaking for myself, I'm bored to tears and have enough Sam Adams in my system to be somewhat sociable.

And once again speaking for myself, I miss the days when the one liner, no matter how sophomoric, ruled over the snide comment.

Hell, we're all just along for the ride, no reason for anyone to get their panties in a wad over it.

At least not in this venue.

Chas

[Charles]

There is a bit of good news, my son in law works for the giant tooling company Kennemetal, they're closing production in India and... China? and bringing it back here. They pay pretty well too, kinda a good old fashioned skilled blue collar job.

Antitrust is a joke. I spoke to a plastic supplier a few years back, he said if one giant oil company raised raw material prices a penny everyone else did too.

Pete

Just bought some 5/16" Chinese lag bolts, and you can twist them in half with a pair of pliers.

To be honest, I'm getting afraid to build anything. Lag bolts that shear, black iron els that come with voids...doesn't give me much confidence that even the good ones won't just split in half after being under tension and fill someone's house full of NG and blow them up.

At times, this shit keeps me awake at nights...if I let it. I'll be the one responsible if anything goes wrong...not some Chinaman.

I'd be willing to pay 2-3 times the price for things like this if I thought they wouldn't fail.

Maybe I wouldn't have to drink myself into a stupor every night just to get some sleep.

Chas

[JJIII]

I donno.

To listen to the current talking points and have your intelligence insulted if you disagree?

To have your overall comments picked apart, to be disparaged point by out of context point?

To be the big fish in the small pond?

Because you don't have enough overbearing assholes in your real life that you need to go online to find some more?

Because you can't have a dominatrix without a submissive?

Speaking for myself, I'm bored to tears and have enough Sam Adams in my system to be somewhat sociable.

And once again speaking for myself, I miss the days when the one liner, no matter how sophomoric, ruled over the snide comment.

Hell, we're all just along for the ride, no reason for anyone to get their panties in a wad over it.

At least not in this venue.

Chas

BAM!! That is exactly what I meant to say!:)

[Charles]

Ever see 'Armageddon' with Bruce Willis? A Russkie cosmonaut is banging on an inoperative control panel with a wrench, yelling 'Russian electronics. American electronics. All made in Taiwan!' :)

Given that car parts come from everywhere, I'd think that if we slapped tariffs on everything cars would get more expensive.

And the 'free trade' agreements really aren't. You'd think I could simply ship stuff to Canada like anywhere else, but that sure isn't so. Extra paperwork and steps, lots of extra fees, border delays, it could be much more efficient.

China, those thieves. Let's get'em :)

Pete

If you can fix electrical components with a mallet, or better yet a thump of your finger...you have a bad connection.

Chas

[Charles]

BAM!! That is exactly what I meant to say!:)

Thank you John, but I can't take credit for this.

It was Samuel Adams doing the talking.

I'm just his simple mouthpiece.

Take care,

Chas

[Wasillaguy]

If you can fix electrical components with a mallet, or better yet a thump of your finger...you have a bad connection.

Chas

Yes, but on the invoice it's "Reseated components, $25"

[BlueStreak]

There is a bit of good news, my son in law works for the giant tooling company Kennemetal, they're closing production in India and... China? and bringing it back here. They pay pretty well too, kinda a good old fashioned skilled blue collar job.

Antitrust is a joke. I spoke to a plastic supplier a few years back, he said if one giant oil company raised raw material prices a penny everyone else did too.

Pete

"Here", as in to Ohio? That would be cool. I'd love to see Ohio back on top. Ohio has produced some great people. Like you and me, for instance.:D

I used to work with plastics engineers from GE, Beyer and Wellman when I worked in the automotive industry. What that guy told you is very true. But, it's not just plastics, it's everything. Why do you think cars are all similarly priced, no matter who made it, or where it was made? Lowballers learn to play along or get run out of town in that industry. It's just the real ways of the world, I'm afraid.

Dave

[merrylander]

Ever see 'Armageddon' with Bruce Willis? A Russkie cosmonaut is banging on an inoperative control panel with a wrench, yelling 'Russian electronics. American electronics. All made in Taiwan!' :)

Given that car parts come from everywhere, I'd think that if we slapped tariffs on everything cars would get more expensive.

And the 'free trade' agreements really aren't. You'd think I could simply ship stuff to Canada like anywhere else, but that sure isn't so. Extra paperwork and steps, lots of extra fees, border delays, it could be much more efficient.

China, those thieves. Let's get'em :)

Pete

Tell me about it, I just sent our son a cheque so he could get the two girls their Christmas presents. It is not just the damn forms but the Post Office seems to have a new rule on shipments to Canada - "How much are the contents worth? Ok that is the postage."

[merrylander]

Well I may soon be too busy to post here, just ordere 500 sq ft of Bruce flooring to put a floating floor in the playroom. When I can afford the drop ceiling then I will need to get a permiit. It is funny how you can do the walls and floor and not need a permit, but put in a ceiling . . .

[Charles]

Tell me about it, I just sent our son a cheque so he could get the two girls their Christmas presents. It is not just the damn forms but the Post Office seems to have a new rule on shipments to Canada - "How much are the contents worth? Ok that is the postage."

Well, how else are the people in customs going to know if there is anything worth stealing in the package?

Years ago I bought an SME IIIs owners manual from a guy in Germany. He wanted payment in the form of $20 US cash. He notified me that he received the envelope but without the green. So I sent another.

Then I received an envelope minus the manual. As he had another, he sent it and it finally made it.

Now I can understand customs stealing the green money, but a SME manual? I imagine that only a few of them had any idea of what is was.

I also bought a case of Busha Brownes Pukka Sauce from Jamaica. When it arrived, it had been opened and one bottle stolen.

Low rent bastards.

I suppose I should be grateful that the ninja brigade didn't wait until I had taken the package indoors and then burst in and shot my dog.

Chas

[BlueStreak]

You have the worst luck, Chas. Good Lord.
I recently ordered some tubes from Canada.
Arrived safe and sound................

Dave

[Charles]

Well I may soon be too busy to post here, just ordere 500 sq ft of Bruce flooring to put a floating floor in the playroom. When I can afford the drop ceiling then I will need to get a permiit. It is funny how you can do the walls and floor and not need a permit, but put in a ceiling . . .

You have to pull a permit to install a drop ceiling?

You should probably pick up a copy of the BOCA code to make sure that you're doing it right, otherwise the inspector will make you tear it down.

Chas

[merrylander]

The permit IMHO is simply so that the county will know that I just added about $50,000 to the value of the house so they can raise my property tax. The problem is my nosy beatch of a neighbour saw Owens Corning bringing in all the material and tools to do the walls. When she sees 500 sq ft of flooring coming in that will tear it and she will be on the phone to the county.

[BlueStreak]

The permit IMHO is simply so that the county will know that I just added about $50,000 to the value of the house so they can raise my property tax. The problem is my nosy beatch of a neighbour saw Owens Corning bringing in all the material and tools to do the walls. When she sees 500 sq ft of flooring coming in that will tear it and she will be on the phone to the county.

Yep. I had a room added onto my house six years ago. When the city assessor came, she took pictures and measurements. Excessively thorough, for a 10x14 addition............................

Dave

[Charles]

Yep. I had a room added onto my house six years ago. When the city assessor came, she took pictures and measurements. Excessively thorough, for a 10x14 addition............................

Dave

Whenever I added a 14x28 screened in porch to the rear of my abode, neither the assessor or any of his minions ever stopped by...even though he could see me doing it every time he walked out of the courthouse.

I think my Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde personality may of had something to do with that. That, and whenever they've shown up on one of my jobs asking questions, I've always told them that I was busy and if they wanted any specifics they needed to talk to the homeowner.

Fuck 'em. The county has never kicked any work my way, so I'll be damned if I'm going to help them do their job.

Chas

[BlueStreak]

Whenever I added a 14x28 screened in porch to the rear of my abode, neither the assessor or any of his minions ever stopped by...even though he could see me doing it every time he walked out of the courthouse.

I think my Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde personality may of had something to do with that. That, and whenever they've shown up on one of my jobs asking questions, I've always told them that I was busy and if they wanted any specifics they needed to talk to the homeowner.

Fuck 'em. The county has never kicked any work my way, so I'll be damned if I'm going to help them do their job.

Chas

Whatever keeps them away, Chas.

Here, we have no choice. I don't think you could keep them out with mean dogs and razor wire. They'd just shoot the dogs from a helicopter and repel down. That woman took pictures, inside and out, broke out the tape and measured the room after asking me what the dimensions were.....it was ridiculous.

Dave

[Oerets]

Not only did I have to get a permit but needed to go in front of zoning board to get approval for a 10X12 shed. They wanted a set back of 20' off property lines! When I mentioned I could put up a fence on the line without a permit we settled for 5'. They still got the fee of $65.00, plus had to be there when it was put up. Did the tape measure routine of course.




Barney

[BlueStreak]

Not only did I have to get a permit but needed to go in front of zoning board to get approval for a 10X12 shed. They wanted a set back of 20' off property lines! When I mentioned I could put up a fence on the line without a permit we settled for 5'. They still got the fee of $65.00, plus had to be there when it was put up. Did the tape measure routine of course.




Barney

20' off of any property line would put the shed in my bedroom.:confused:

I wanted to build one of those sheds with a loft. But, my house is a single story rancher. Local code puts the kibosh on any stucture taller than the house.

Dave

[merrylander]

Hell here we don't need a permit for any shed under 200 sq ft which is fine because I plan on putting an 8 x 14 shed beside the deck. We will keep the golf cart in it because the present idea of having to walk down to the bottom of the yard to get it sucks. I use it toe avoid walking up and down a 50 foot difference in the land but then have to walk back uphill when I put it away. I can also electrify a shed beside the deck so I can put it on charge during the winter months. Six 8 volt batteries do not come cheap.

[Oerets]

20' off of any property line would put the shed in my bedroom.:confused:

I wanted to build one of those sheds with a loft. But, my house is a single story rancher. Local code puts the kibosh on any stucture taller than the house.

Dave

Luckily I still have the markers in place for the boundaries, or would of been out that expense too!

The 20' offset was so they could drive a fire tuck back there if need be? Good luck I told them, due to the 100 acre swamp that starts back there. I could put up a 8' wood privacy fence right on the line without a problem. :confused:
They did not like it to much but relented when that fact was brought up. The subdued chuckles from the crowd might of help my side some also!


Barney

[piece-itpete]

....

It was Samuel Adams doing the talking.

...

Good to see heathy respect for the Founders :D

"Here", as in to Ohio? That would be cool. I'd love to see Ohio back on top. Ohio has produced some great people. Like you and me, for instance.:D

I used to work with plastics engineers from GE, Beyer and Wellman when I worked in the automotive industry. What that guy told you is very true. But, it's not just plastics, it's everything. Why do you think cars are all similarly priced, no matter who made it, or where it was made? Lowballers learn to play along or get run out of town in that industry. It's just the real ways of the world, I'm afraid.

Dave

We ARE great, ain't we? lol.

... "How much are the contents worth? Ok that is the postage."

BAM!

Is it possible to shape a shed like a middle finger? I need to build a garage, I thought 24 x 32 (I have a 1000 sf slab ranch), but the city says, 600 sf max. So I thought, a gambriel two story, but the city says 16 ft to the peak in my development.

Also, shed can't be bigger than 8 x 10, but you can have multiples? Can have multiple garages too. Idiots methinks.

Pete

[Charles]

I feel sorry for you guys, we can build anything we want in Bugtussell.

The city even gave up on enforcing their "nuisance law" after they make one guy paint his house and he painted it purple with green shutters.

They're back to just trying to ignore people, they'll go away sooner or later.

Chas

[painter]

Not only did I have to get a permit but needed to go in front of zoning board to get approval for a 10X12 shed. They wanted a set back of 20' off property lines! When I mentioned I could put up a fence on the line without a permit we settled for 5'. They still got the fee of $65.00, plus had to be there when it was put up. Did the tape measure routine of course.




Barney

Recently my oldest son (lives in a rural area) wanted a barn built (30' x 60') by the Amish. He applied for all the necessary permits and submitted plans for the job. After the job was finished...he was told besides the cost of the permits paid...he had to have the signature of an architect ( ahem! the building inspector) on the plans...ca-ching! $350.!!!:eek:

[Oerets]

Recently my oldest son (lives in a rural area) wanted a barn built (30' x 60') by the Amish. He applied for all the necessary permits and submitted plans for the job. After the job was finished...he was told besides the cost of the permits paid...he had to have the signature of an architect ( ahem! the building inspector) on the plans...ca-ching! $350.!!!:eek:

I had been told ahead of time to have an established builder lined up on the shed. So when asked in the meeting it went smooth. I thought it was chicken $hit when others around me don't seem to care, build what ever they want and don't seem to get caught.

I want to add a deck sometime but after doing a shed having second thoughts now.



Barney

[merrylander]

Recently my oldest son (lives in a rural area) wanted a barn built (30' x 60') by the Amish. He applied for all the necessary permits and submitted plans for the job. After the job was finished...he was told besides the cost of the permits paid...he had to have the signature of an architect ( ahem! the building inspector) on the plans...ca-ching! $350.!!!:eek:

Ha, I wonder if the county realized that I redrew the plans for this house. We wanted some changes and also wanted the layout reversed. The builder gave me a set of the blueprints and I redrew them to scale as a mirror image with the alterations we wanted. Of course in my youth I worked for a large engineering company and have had some training as a draughtsman.

As it happens I did the plans for the playroom we are adding, having a 36" wide printer helps.