War, Religion and Monty Python.......

[BlueStreak]

""...And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O LORD, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the LORD did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu... [At this point, the friar is urged by Brother Maynard to "skip a bit, brother"]... And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen.""

I can't help but wonder how many people have murdered each other in the name of "a compassionate, loving God" over the millenia? Waaaaaay into the billions, to be sure.

Personally, I have often wondered how much senseless brutality could have been avoided if religion were more like Santa Claus-----a nice story for children to learn, that the grownups realize is really nothing more than that?

Dave

[Big_Bill]

Your probably right Dave,

But most wars were for power, control and greed, and whatever god was used, he just a pawn to gather and insight the people to follow their leaders.

If there never was a mention or creation of a god, men would found another reason to kill and conquer one another. Perhaps just to see who has the greatest armies ?

[BlueStreak]

Power, money, liebestraum......sure, there are a plethora of real reasons. But, what is the usual rallying cry? The catalyst used to garner support for wars fought for whatever reason? "For God and Country!"........sound familiar?

Honestly, from my point of view, if a leader stepped up to the podium and said something along the lines of; "We're going to war with ______ because the bastards are threatening our oil supply." I would have more respect for that, and probably be more supportive of the effort. It's the BS I can't stand. "When someone tells me; "We're fighting for God and Country!" I feel as though my intelligence has been insulted. I know the real reason always lies elsewhere, and I don't like being handed sanctimonious crap.

It's like telling me I'm risking my life for the Easter Bunny.

It won't work. They'll have to do better than that.

I voluteered to go help protect my country from the Soviet Union because they posed a very real and very serious threat of direct physical harm to my people.

9/11, as terrible as it was, pales in comparison to what the Soviets could have done. And this "War on Terror" is a fight that can be handled every bit as effectively, if not more so with covert and clandestine operations. That all of the "shock and awe" and "boots on the ground" is little more than a dog and pony show for the public, IMHO. One that is very expensive in financial costs, material and most importantly, human lives. American lives principley, but not exclusively.

I view flagwaiving in the same way. Spare me the brass bands and puff chested John Wayne/Ronald Reagan/Founding Fathers hullabaloo, and tell me what's really going on......Or I'll tune you out.

Dave

[Zeke]

I totally get you.

9/11 was a metaphorical bloody nose (yes, we were struck) and we're burning down houses for it: and not even the right houses.

[Rex E.]

I always saw 9/11 as more of an attack on the western world as opposed to just the U.S. They did choose to attack the WORLD Trade Center and tried several times. It could have easily been the Emipire State Building or another of the high rises.

Dave, how were you going to protect the U.S. from a ICBM or did you think the Soviets were gonna start landing troops here in the U.S. ala "Red Dawn" (WOLVERINES!).

[BlueStreak]

I always saw 9/11 as more of an attack on the western world as opposed to just the U.S. They did choose to attack the WORLD Trade Center and tried several times. It could have easily been the Emipire State Building or another of the high rises.

Dave, how were you going to protect the U.S. from a ICBM or did you think the Soviets were gonna start landing troops here in the U.S. ala "Red Dawn" (WOLVERINES!).

In my own small way, launching F-14s from the USS Constellation. I'm only one man, making the best contribution I could.:)

Dave

[BlueStreak]

BTW, Rex, how was the Cold War won? Any direct confrontation with the Soviet Union? Well, maybe you could stretch it a little and say Korea and Vietnam were part of the fight against communism, but those conflicts didn't end the struggle, now did they?

Nope. We drove them down economically, and through containment, clandestine operations and relentless propaganda campaigns. In the end, their people no longer supported the Soviet government. Down it went.

Or, we could have done the "smart" thing and initiated WW3...................:rolleyes:

Dave

[merrylander]

Dave, how were you going to protect the U.S. from a ICBM or did you think the Soviets were gonna start landing troops here in the U.S. ala "Red Dawn" (WOLVERINES!).

To start with the Russkies knew as well as we did that nobody was going to use ICBMs -- MAD or Mutually Assured Destruction. Now dinnerjacket and the ayatollas I'm not to sure of.