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d-ray657
02-08-2012, 10:26 PM
Even George Will has acknowledged (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-need-more-than-rhetoric-on-defense/2012/02/07/gIQA5SF1zQ_story.html) that Obama has neutralized a traditional GOP strength - defense and national security. I guess taking out OBL kind of puts the kibosh on Newt's description of Obama's "Kenyan anti-colonialism."

Regards,

D-Ray

finnbow
02-08-2012, 11:03 PM
The only real strength that the GOP has in the national security arena is their ability to piss away money to benefit their military/industrial complex enablers/benefactors, while satisfying the nation's appetite for kicking somebody's ass. Amazingly, almost to a man, the most hawkish of all Republicans are chicken-hawks who never served in the military themselves. If they had, they may be less willing to throw away so many young mens' lives chasing their world domination fantasies.

djv8ga
02-08-2012, 11:47 PM
They should name a Drone after him. :cool:
He has been very successful. I gave him props for all the kills a year ago & was ripped by Rightys & Leftys. :rolleyes: It's one area where I tip my hat to the man.
Also, I feel Panetta deserves a ton of credit for doing an excellent job and for just being a stand-up guy. The Dems should run him against the Prez.

BlueStreak
02-09-2012, 07:16 AM
The only real strength that the GOP has in the national security arena is their ability to piss away money to benefit their military/industrial complex enablers/benefactors, while satisfying the nation's appetite for kicking somebody's ass. Amazingly, almost to a man, the most hawkish of all Republicans are chicken-hawks who never served in the military themselves. If they had, they may be less willing to throw away so many young mens' lives chasing their world domination fantasies.

+1.

Dave

BlueStreak
02-09-2012, 07:17 AM
They should name a Drone after him. :cool:
He has been very successful. I gave him props for all the kills a year ago & was ripped by Rightys & Leftys. :rolleyes: It's one area where I tip my hat to the man.
Also, I feel Panetta deserves a ton of credit for doing an excellent job and for just being a stand-up guy. The Dems should run him against the Prez.

Uh........+1..:confused:

Dave

merrylander
02-09-2012, 07:33 AM
About time they challenged this half assed BS, name me a Republican President, apart from Lincoln, who ever won a war? All the big ones were under Democratic Presidents. When Time published my letter to that effect no one challenged it.

I guess old George has his lucid moments occasionally.

piece-itpete
02-09-2012, 10:33 AM
Bush :p

So we got Osama on Obama's watch. OK, that's great for sure. What else has he done to deserve a rep for National Security?

And as far as chickenhawks, Obama is one too.

Pete

Big_Bill
02-09-2012, 01:02 PM
About time they challenged this half assed BS, name me a Republican President, apart from Lincoln, who ever won a war? All the big ones were under Democratic Presidents. When Time published my letter to that effect no one challenged it.

I guess old George has his lucid moments occasionally.


I didn't know that JFK, and LBJ were republicans ??

Bill

Bigerik
02-09-2012, 01:05 PM
I didn't know that JFK, and LBJ were republicans ??

Bill

Didnt know JFK lost a war. His major challenge was the Cuban missile crisis, and he did ok there. Bay of Pigs was a mess on the other hand, but that wasn't an American war either.

d-ray657
02-09-2012, 01:08 PM
I didn't know that JFK, and LBJ were republicans ??

Bill

The question was to name a Republican who won a war. How is that responsive? :confused:

Regards,

D-Ray

Bigerik
02-09-2012, 01:17 PM
Took Roosevelt as much time to beat Germany and Japan as Bush had in Iraq. And Roosevelt didn't trash the economy while doing it.

piece-itpete
02-09-2012, 02:46 PM
If we were willing to commit as much resources as we did in ww2, how long would Iraq have taken?

And I thought government spending was stimulating ;)


Pete

Bigerik
02-09-2012, 04:09 PM
If we were willing to commit as much resources as we did in ww2, how long would Iraq have taken?

And I thought government spending was stimulating ;)


Pete

Only way to fight a war is all out. Anything else is pissing the troops lives away.

djv8ga
02-09-2012, 06:59 PM
Only way to fight a war is all out. Anything else is pissing the troops lives away.
It's what I've heard many soldiers say.

"Use our lives, but don't waste them."

That sums it up for me.

finnbow
02-09-2012, 06:59 PM
The question was to name a Republican who won a war.

They don't win wars. They start 'em. That's where the fun is.

djv8ga
02-09-2012, 07:16 PM
Uh........+1..:confused:

DaveWhat part confuses you? Is it my support for Panetta? - http://news.yahoo.com/policy-politics-contraception-rule-fiercely-debated-within-white-195121030--abc-news.html

It's stuff like this that makes me like & respect the man.

JCricket
02-11-2012, 09:14 AM
Took Roosevelt as much time to beat Germany and Japan as Bush had in Iraq. And Roosevelt didn't trash the economy while doing it.
UH, apples and oranges dude.

MArk

BlueStreak
02-11-2012, 10:03 AM
UH, apples and oranges dude.

MArk

So, why are you calling Bush an orange?

Dave

BlueStreak
02-11-2012, 10:10 AM
If we were willing to commit as much resources as we did in ww2, how long would Iraq have taken?

And I thought government spending was stimulating ;)


Pete

Ten minutes.

And, it is, when you don't maintain a standing army. See, when your military is small and you engage in a rapid build up to prepare for war----wealth is created. Ladies and gentlemen, I refer you to the period 1938 to 1945.

When you build a huge, unnecessary military then pay it to either stand around with it's thumb up it's butt or fight piddly ass, deliberately drawn out wars for decades on end-----it's a drain.

If I'm not mistaken, the original intention for the military was just that; Only raise an army when it's needed.

Dave

JCricket
02-11-2012, 10:18 AM
So, why are you calling Bush an orange?

Dave

Your right, I should a said pomegrante or lemon or somethng.

Seriously, I see no correlation at all between wwII and Iraq. Not in the leadrs, intent, anything. I think maybe I just got your point - Bush was very inneffctive and accomplished very little as compared to a real war.

Did I get that right now?

merrylander
02-11-2012, 10:40 AM
. . .If I'm not mistaken, the original intention for the military was just that; Only raise an army when it's needed.

Dave

And that dear readers was the intent of the Second, of course after 1812 they kind of changed their minds.:rolleyes:

BlueStreak
02-11-2012, 01:05 PM
Your right, I should a said pomegrante or lemon or somethng.

Seriously, I see no correlation at all between wwII and Iraq. Not in the leadrs, intent, anything. I think maybe I just got your point - Bush was very inneffctive and accomplished very little as compared to a real war.

Did I get that right now?

Something like that. And I was thinking 'Kumquat".

Dave

BlueStreak
02-11-2012, 01:06 PM
And that dear readers was the intent of the Second, of course after 1812 they kind of changed their minds.:rolleyes:

Yeah, right you are. But, that's a rather heated argument we've had before..............

Dave

merrylander
02-11-2012, 01:37 PM
Yeah, right you are. But, that's a rather heated argument we've had before..............

Dave

Given the state of affairs here I am planning on picking up a CZ-83 380ACP and if Florence can handle it I will get a second one. You kick in our front door and that will be the last thing you ever do. I don't like the damn things but the low lifers hereabouts are leaving me little choice.:mad:

BlueStreak
02-11-2012, 02:12 PM
Thought about it myself, Rob. I hate the damn things and haven't touched one since I was in the service. With my bum knee and this hernia that won't be gettin' fixed until next month, I'm not exactly as apt to fight anyone off with my bare hands or even old hickory anymore.

Dave

Charles
02-11-2012, 06:38 PM
Given the state of affairs here I am planning on picking up a CZ-83 380ACP and if Florence can handle it I will get a second one. You kick in our front door and that will be the last thing you ever do. I don't like the damn things but the low lifers hereabouts are leaving me little choice.:mad:

You could do worse, although I'd probably go ahead and get a 9mm.

Chas

merrylander
02-12-2012, 08:19 AM
You could do worse, although I'd probably go ahead and get a 9mm.

Chas

Well because of the design - recoil spring around the barrel and not below - it does seem to offer less upward push when fired and the 380 ACP has less kick back than a 9mm. Nice part is that there is a dealer just up the road offering a better price than the big online shops. Add to that the FFL charge if I bought online and it all looks like a good deal.

bhunter
02-12-2012, 02:48 PM
Well because of the design - recoil spring around the barrel and not below - it does seem to offer less upward push when fired and the 380 ACP has less kick back than a 9mm. Nice part is that there is a dealer just up the road offering a better price than the big online shops. Add to that the FFL charge if I bought online and it all looks like a good deal.

Be sure that she can work the slide. Sometimes they are quite stiff when new. My mom had a difficult time with a Sig .380.

Charles
02-12-2012, 04:20 PM
Be sure that she can work the slide. Sometimes they are quite stiff when new. My mom had a difficult time with a Sig .380.

My wife can't pull the slide on my Buckmark whenever the hammer isn't cocked.

And while Jeff Cooper was a big fan of CZ's since they could be carried cocked and locked, I think most people would be better served by a decocker. It really sucks if your thumb slips off of the hammer while you're trying to place your sidearm in condition 2.

Chas

painter
02-12-2012, 04:58 PM
They don't win wars. They start 'em. That's where the fun is.

And...presidents don't win them. Troops do.

merrylander
02-13-2012, 08:11 AM
Be sure that she can work the slide. Sometimes they are quite stiff when new. My mom had a difficult time with a Sig .380.

This is the part that concerns me more than the recoil. Saw some good advice on how women can do this on a neat website

www.corneredcat.com

Interesting lady.

But there is always the fallback position to a revolver. The county police here carry Sig Sauers, not sure which model. An interesting thing is that some local dealers carry reconditioned former police pistols. The whole topic can get confusing, I was always taught that weapons like the famous 1911 were pistols, the others were revolvers, shotguns and rifles. Guns were only to be found on big ships.:D

merrylander
02-13-2012, 08:23 AM
My wife can't pull the slide on my Buckmark whenever the hammer isn't cocked.

And while Jeff Cooper was a big fan of CZ's since they could be carried cocked and locked, I think most people would be better served by a decocker. It really sucks if your thumb slips off of the hammer while you're trying to place your sidearm in condition 2.

Chas

We won't be "carrying" as getting a CC license here in Maryland requires real proof that your life is endangered. That feature never quite thrilled me in anycase.

I would really prefer to go gas powered but the best airpistol I have found in that category is a 6mm@500+FPS muzzle velocity and while that will draw blood it won't take them down. Although if your aim is good a shot the face, especially the eye or earhole, could be fatal.

JJIII
02-13-2012, 09:13 AM
I would really prefer to go gas powered but the best airpistol I have found in that category is a 6mm@500+FPS muzzle velocity and while that will draw blood it won't take them down. Although if your aim is good a shot the face, especially the eye or earhole, could be fatal.

Under the stress of a home invasion I wouldn't count on hitting an eye or an ear.
There are a couple of revolvers made that will handle .410 shotgun rounds that make hitting the target even easier and hitting someone in another room through the wall less likely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL_Thunder_5

http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm

merrylander
02-13-2012, 10:17 AM
Under the stress of a home invasion I wouldn't count on hitting an eye or an ear.
There are a couple of revolvers made that will handle .410 shotgun rounds that make hitting the target even easier and hitting someone in another room through the wall less likely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL_Thunder_5

http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm

That is the one they call the Judge or summat like that, has one hell of a kick I believe.

Since we are alone there will be no one in the next room, easier to patch the wall from a .38 or .9mm than a shotgun blast. Of course the bugger will probably bleed all over the broadloom.

Whatever we get there will certainly be time spent at the nearest range.

Taking a brief rest from cabinet work. I have several left over Yamaha cases that rather than use for firewood I will strip the vinyl and veneer them, then put them over in barter town.

Charles
02-13-2012, 01:11 PM
I donno Rob, handguns are just difficult to shoot well.

Why not a good 20ga semi auto set up for home defense? And I still think a 10-22 with an extended magazine would be a good choice for someone who doesn't shoot much.

I realize the .22lr isn't much of a defense round, but when you consider that you can put 25 of 'em downrange in a hurry, out of a light, easy to handle carbine, with NO recoil...

Chas

Oerets
02-13-2012, 01:15 PM
My wife being raised by a WWII Marine who fought in the Pacific. She is very comfortable and capable with fire arms. She likes a wheel gun better then an auto. But if this is just for home defense a simple shot gun in the hand of a woman normally will do the trick. Have always heard two sounds a thief hates to hear when in a house are a low growl from a big dog or a slide on a pump loading a round.

One will have no hesitation when needed, the other better not.




Barney

merrylander
02-13-2012, 01:32 PM
I have heard all this about long guns before, but you awake from deep sleep and have to jump out of bed and swing a long barrelled weapon around, I don't know. Guess I really need to find that civil war sword we have.

Well the airpistol came in handy, one of the kitties was staring up at the roof. Florence went out and looked, came in and called me - there are two turkey buzzards on the roof. Not any more there are buzzards on the roof.

Charles
02-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Well, if you're really serious about defending hearth and home, and would like a short weapon which will get the job done in a confined space...there's the Draco Mini.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=798eNj0s0Ls&feature=related

Chas

noonereal
02-13-2012, 04:10 PM
What Kind of Gun Should I Get My Wife


A water gun. ;)

d-ray657
02-13-2012, 04:45 PM
A water gun. ;)

you got the joke, right?

Regards,

D-Ray

Charles
02-13-2012, 04:47 PM
A water gun. ;)

As many times as you've been divorced, I can see where it would make sense for you!!!

Chas

noonereal
02-13-2012, 05:16 PM
As many times as you've been divorced, I can see where it would make sense for you!!!

Chas

ROTFLMAO

:p

Zeke
02-13-2012, 08:03 PM
Counterintuitively, a Smith & Wesson J-Frame may not be the best weapon for a female or anyone not used to recoil. (With serious ammunition, those things can be snappy.)

My Glock 21, practicing with .45 ACP hardball, has much less immediacy in the hand than an aluminum J-Frame with .38 +P+ (no, it's not recommended for consistent use but it's what I keep in the gun).

I've put tens of thousands of rounds through my Glock over fifteen years or so. I'd bet I am <100 with the J-frame but I've drawn it from a pocket holster thousands of times to practice the motion.

It's not really an offensive weapon and, beyond point-and-shoot, I don't see how shooting a lot of semi-wadcutters is going to make me any better.

Charles
02-14-2012, 07:23 AM
Counterintuitively, a Smith & Wesson J-Frame may not be the best weapon for a female or anyone not used to recoil. (With serious ammunition, those things can be snappy.)

My Glock 21, practicing with .45 ACP hardball, has much less immediacy in the hand than an aluminum J-Frame with .38 +P+ (no, it's not recommended for consistent use but it's what I keep in the gun).

I've put tens of thousands of rounds through my Glock over fifteen years or so. I'd bet I am <100 with the J-frame but I've drawn it from a pocket holster thousands of times to practice the motion.

It's not really an offensive weapon and, beyond point-and-shoot, I don't see how shooting a lot of semi-wadcutters is going to make me any better.

After replacing the wood grips on my wife's stainless J-frame with Hogue monogrips, it's not only more comfortable to shoot, but much more controllable. She was pissed because the wood grips were "pretty", but admits that the Hogues are way better if you're actually going to shoot the damn thing.

Dandy little pocket heaters, those little Smiths.

I had you figured for a .40 fan, ex law enforcement and all.

Chas

Zeke
02-14-2012, 07:55 AM
Truth is that I am not even a big gun guy and preferred the more cerebral and investigative side of keeping tabs on folk: but it produced a cynical elitism that I had to get away from...

In any event, I believe a .45 Federal Hydra-Shock is about as good as you can get against humans NOT wearing body armor -- if they're wearing body armor, like occurred in LA, all bets are off -- and handguns are not nearly as lethal as most would surmise.

If I'm in deep doo doo, I want the bigger bullet until I can get away or get to a Mossberg 500. In nearly every case, I'd prefer to just get away...

Charles
02-14-2012, 08:19 AM
Truth is that I am not even a big gun guy and preferred the more cerebral and investigative side of keeping tabs on folk: but it produced a cynical elitism that I had to get away from...

In any event, I believe a .45 Federal Hydra-Shock is about as good as you can get against humans NOT wearing body armor -- if they're wearing body armor, like occurred in LA, all bets are off -- and handguns are not nearly as lethal as most would surmise.

If I'm in deep doo doo, I want the bigger bullet until I can get away or get to a Mossberg 500. In nearly every case, I'd prefer to just get away...

Firearms aren't as lethal as most people suspect. Used to work with a guy who took three rounds point blank in the chest from an AK-47, he had the exit wounds in his shoulder blade to prove it. Cole Younger got shot something like 30 times and lived to a ripe old age.

Concerning the Mossberg. I read a few years ago when the military decided to get a new shotgun, Remington, Winchester, & Mossberg submitted weapons for evaluation, and only the crummy old Mossberg made it all of the way through testing without a malfunction.

I also remember when Deputy Dog had me out drinking beer with the Drug Task Force. Now those guys have a SEVERE case of "it's us v them". Personally, I don't think I would trust them to walk a beat.

Chas

Oerets
02-14-2012, 08:49 AM
The last gun I bought the wife was a Ruger 10/22 SS heavy barrel, wood stock and scope. Was a surprise gift for her, she then informs me that a lever action is preferred!




Barney

piece-itpete
02-14-2012, 12:20 PM
You guys know a lot more than I do, but I saw an ad for the Remington ammo for the taurus, from 1 shot:

http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/5998-2/taurus-public-defender--polymer-judge-target.jpg

Pete

Zeke
02-14-2012, 01:49 PM
I also remember when Deputy Dog had me out drinking beer with the Drug Task Force. Now those guys have a SEVERE case of "it's us v them". Personally, I don't think I would trust them to walk a beat.

That's when you walk away...

Charles
02-14-2012, 04:11 PM
The last gun I bought the wife was a Ruger 10/22 SS heavy barrel, wood stock and scope. Was a surprise gift for her, she then informs me that a lever action is preferred!




Barney

I assume that's a factory rifle...how does it shoot?

Chas

Oerets
02-14-2012, 05:02 PM
I assume that's a factory rifle...how does it shoot?

Chas

Sweet gun, 100% except put an extended mag release and a SS flash suppressor on the barrel. Scope is also SS and was quick to zero in. Groups at 75' ~ 100' are pretty tight. The place I picked it up ordered one with a match grade barrel and the guy never picked it up. So the salesman I knew let me have it for a good price. Thinking I picked this up in the late eighties maybe.

Very good for tree rats, AKA squirrels. But she grew up shooting a Marlin 22 lever action of her fathers. I was willed all of his guns, that was in the lot. Well I told her sister she could have her pick. Came back to bit me because I still hear about it. The wife won't let me just get her one of her own.

Personally the Ruger is a much nicer gun, but those old Marlin's are nice and hold their value better.



Barney

piece-itpete
02-15-2012, 09:24 AM
That's when you walk away...

Dude, the only time I ever had a copper pull a gun on me, he was shaking, going 'Oh shit! Oh shit!'

I was sure he was gonna shoot me.

Pete

Zeke
02-15-2012, 03:36 PM
Dude, the only time I ever had a copper pull a gun on me, he was shaking, going 'Oh shit! Oh shit!'

I was sure he was gonna shoot me.

Pete

I mean, when you start seeing John Q. as the enemy, walk away from the JOB.

I did, but too late to save my marriage. :o

painter
02-15-2012, 04:16 PM
I donno Rob, handguns are just difficult to shoot well.

Why not a good 20ga semi auto set up for home defense? And I still think a 10-22 with an extended magazine would be a good choice for someone who doesn't shoot much.

I realize the .22lr isn't much of a defense round, but when you consider that you can put 25 of 'em downrange in a hurry, out of a light, easy to handle carbine, with NO recoil...

Chas


A Glock. Your aim improves with every pull of the trigger. :D

d-ray657
02-15-2012, 04:43 PM
Did no one notice that the title on this thread had been changed? Too subtle? :D

Regards,

D-Ray

Charles
02-15-2012, 05:18 PM
Did no one notice that the title on this thread had been changed? Too subtle? :D

Regards,

D-Ray

Did you do that???

Chas

d-ray657
02-15-2012, 05:21 PM
Did you do that???

Chas

In the law we call it an amendment to conform to the evidence. :cool:

Just seeing if anyone would notice.

Regards,

D-Ray

Zeke
02-15-2012, 06:34 PM
Did no one notice that the title on this thread had been changed? Too subtle? :D

Regards,

D-Ray

I must have missed the beginning of this thread.

I just read the title and went with it...

d-ray657
02-15-2012, 07:39 PM
I must have missed the beginning of this thread.

I just read the title and went with it...

Don't worry. I was merely demonstrating my obtuse sense of humor.

Regards,

D-Ray

Charles
02-16-2012, 06:42 AM
In the law we call it an amendment to conform to the evidence. :cool:

Just seeing if anyone would notice.

Regards,

D-Ray

Well, this thread was dead in the water until you gave it a snazzy new name.

You should go into marketing.

Chas

bhunter
02-18-2012, 03:53 AM
In the law we call it an amendment to conform to the evidence. :cool:

Just seeing if anyone would notice.

Regards,

D-Ray

Damn sneaking lawyers always changing text to suit themselves. BTW, what was the original?

djv8ga
02-18-2012, 10:11 AM
The last gun I bought the wife was a Ruger 10/22 SS heavy barrel, wood stock and scope.




Barney
I want one of those. I wanted a Ruger .22 mag, but almost passed out when I saw what they sell for. :eek:

Charles
02-18-2012, 12:30 PM
I want one of those. I wanted a Ruger .22 mag, but almost passed out when I saw what they sell for. :eek:

I built mine for around $380 total, including the junk 10-22 I used for the action. But that was several years ago.

Chas