France Drops State Pension Age To 60

[djv8ga]

What a thing of beauty. :D
http://money.aol.co.uk/2012/06/07/france-drops-state-pension-age-to-60/?icid=money|DL_4_img

[finnbow]

What a thing of beauty. :D
http://money.aol.co.uk/2012/06/07/france-drops-state-pension-age-to-60/?icid=money|DL_4_img

Heck, I beat them all. I retired at 58.:D

[bobabode]

Heck, I beat them all. I retired at 58.:D

L'enfant probably had something to do with it...:p

[finnbow]

L'enfant probably had something to do with it...:p

Mais oui.

[Oerets]

Well will it not create jobs?



Barney

[Boreas]

This is a very small step in the right direction. It's only a 2year decrease, from 62 to 60, and applies only to workers who began their working lives when they were teenagers.

This is actually a very wise policy at a time when unemployment is high and the workers facing retirement are members of the "Baby Boom" cohort. Moving some of them toward a somewhat earlier retirement simply makes room for younger workers who are now having a hard time finding a job.

John

[BlueStreak]

We should do the same here, and beat the tar out of anyone who complains about it. Actually, here it should be 55, as we have more billionaires to confiscate the money from.:p

Dave

[noonereal]

We should do the same here,

Dave

We do in the public sector. All the cops and firemen retire well before 60 and work another job. Teaches can retire also but make so much and have so much time off anyway then tend to not.

The disconnect is between the private union folks and the public union folks.

[BlueStreak]

We do in the public sector. All the cops and firemen retire well before 60 and work another job. Teaches can retire also but make so much and have so much time off anyway then tend to not.

The disconnect is between the private union folks and the public union folks.

And someone is out to kill that as fast as they can, using the argument that if one group of workers lives are miserable, then everyone must share the misery. Well, except the rich folk, of course. We give them the savings, as we spit-shine their shoes and beg them to be good massas..........:rolleyes:

[merrylander]

Sure raise the retirement age - easy to say if all you do is ride a desk. Bit different if you do physical work. As good as my health is I would have made a lousy fireman at 65.

The funny thing is having some time on my hands a few days ago I did a search on public sector salaries. Did not see very many six figure ones.

[bobabode]

I was thinking along those same lines Rob. There seems to be a concensus that public sector employees retire as millionaires or that they are coddled too much.
To bolster that argument someone trots out a few rare cases as indicative of the whole and the chamberpot of commerce (I love that one by the way)runs screaming to the media with it.
Their seems to be a lot of the C.C.'s electric koolaid being drunk even by some on the left or middle, just a gut feeling. It's also worrysome that the apocrypal story of teachers getting their summers off and living it up is making the rounds yet again.
I think Dave has got it right. Lot's of misery out there looking for for company and it's easy to rationalize that the public payroll is a bloated mess with a huge amount of double dippers and outright cheats driving around in their Cadillac's.

[noonereal]

Sure raise the retirement age - easy to say if all you do is ride a desk. Bit different if you do physical work. As good as my health is I would have made a lousy fireman at 65.

The funny thing is having some time on my hands a few days ago I did a search on public sector salaries. Did not see very many six figure ones.


Look in North Jersey Rob.

I remember posting here a ways back about the teachers salaries in NJ.

I took a random town, Cresskill NJ it was and looked at a random teacher or two and it was indeed over $100,000 with all the benefits and all the time off also.

[noonereal]

I was thinking along those same lines Rob. There seems to be a concensus that public sector employees retire as millionaires or that they are coddled too much.
To bolster that argument someone trots out a few rare cases as indicative of the whole and the chamberpot of commerce (I love that one by the way)runs screaming to the media with it.
Their seems to be a lot of the C.C.'s electric koolaid being drunk even by some on the left or middle, just a gut feeling. It's also worrysome that the apocrypal story of teachers getting their summers off and living it up is making the rounds yet again.
I think Dave has got it right. Lot's of misery out there looking for for company and it's easy to rationalize that the public payroll is a bloated mess with a huge amount of double dippers and outright cheats driving around in their Cadillac's.

Maybe it is different in different parts of the country but here in the Hudson Valley the "well off" are all police and fire fighters.

If teachers, fire fighters and police officers are consider middle class they are absolutely at the top of the middle class and by a wide margin.

[merrylander]

Look in North Jersey Rob.

I remember posting here a ways back about the teachers salaries in NJ.

I took a random town, Cresskill NJ it was and looked at a random teacher or two and it was indeed over $100,000 with all the benefits and all the time off also.

Given NJ's crazy property taxes and having to buy supplies for their students they probably need that kind money. On the teacher salary table I saw we here ranked 12th and the average was about $50,000.

[barbara]

We do in the public sector. All the cops and firemen retire well before 60 and work another job. Teaches can retire also but make so much and have so much time off anyway then tend to not.

The disconnect is between the private union folks and the public union folks.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about public workers.
My husband used to be a teacher. Worked all year long, and during the holdiays and guess what.......his salary could not support our family of four. And, since his district opted out of putting money into social security, when husband became disabled, he had nothing to draw on except from summer jobs he held when he was going to college.
Not sure about police and fireman, but, if they get to retire early, they deserve it considering their jobs. I would imagine they "peak out", so to speak, at a younger age and are unable to perform their duties as efficiently as they age.
But, I can speak about other jobs in the public sector, since I am a gov worker.........and believe me, retiring at 55 was never an option for me or any of the public workers I know. I'll be lucky if I can retire at 65 as are the majority of my coworkers. There will be no health care for me and a modest pension.
Yes, with my education and experience, I could have made a lot more money working in the private arena and had a cushy retirement package. Being a public servant was my choice, my way of supporting my country. And, for those who bemoan all the wonderful benefits of public workers, it was their choice not to pursue public employment.

[barbara]

Maybe it is different in different parts of the country but here in the Hudson Valley the "well off" are all police and fire fighters.

If teachers, fire fighters and police officers are consider middle class they are absolutely at the top of the middle class and by a wide margin.

a few years ago, our local law enforcement was negotiating for a raise and not having any luck at it. Someone realized that at their pay rate, they qualified for food stamps. The whole force came marching into the welfare office one morning to sign up for food stamps along with the press. Needless to say, the raise was negotiated promptly............

[Dondilion]

France is heading towards Greece.

I was watching the BBC this morning. They were featuring a whole area of the country with the question....Where has all the business gone?

[merrylander]

If all public service jobs are so bloody cushy and the bennies so great it amazes me that more people are not lined up with their CVs in hand at the government offices. I once offered the late Governor Shaeffer my services pro bono and he sent me arround to talk to the state engineers. My modest little 1989 Ford Probe was the fanciest car in the parking lot.

They recently got the project finished and all first responders are on a common radio system.

[merrylander]

France is heading towards Greece.

I was watching the BBC this morning. They were featuring a whole area of the country with the question....Where has all the business gone?

Down the toilet along with all the wages and jobs that were cut for reasons of austerity. If no one has any money over and above what they need to pay the rent and put food on the table WTF did they expect.:rolleyes:

[BlueStreak]

I was thinking along those same lines Rob. There seems to be a concensus that public sector employees retire as millionaires or that they are coddled too much.
To bolster that argument someone trots out a few rare cases as indicative of the whole and the chamberpot of commerce (I love that one by the way)runs screaming to the media with it.
Their seems to be a lot of the C.C.'s electric koolaid being drunk even by some on the left or middle, just a gut feeling. It's also worrysome that the apocrypal story of teachers getting their summers off and living it up is making the rounds yet again.
I think Dave has got it right. Lot's of misery out there looking for for company and it's easy to rationalize that the public payroll is a bloated mess with a huge amount of double dippers and outright cheats driving around in their Cadillac's.

I'm sure you noticed that anytime the powers that be are preparing to screw someone, all sorts of misleading demonization hits the media as a precurser. We're all fed shocking and outrageous stories of extravagance and malfeasance. The autoworker that gets $126 an hour to sleep next to the assembly line, teachers who get extra pay with time off for fondling students, city garbage men riding around in Bentlys.......you can pretty much tell who's about to get the high hard one next. It usually starts on Fox, then spreads like a fart in a crowded elevator.

Whether there is any truth to it or not has become irrelevant, as the Karl Roves of this world have come to see that the end justifies the means. There will be time for "Oooops, my bad." to be quietly whispered at the bottom of page C6 next to the Roto-Rooter ad, after the damage is done.:rolleyes:

Dave

[noonereal]

Given NJ's crazy property taxes and having to buy supplies for their students they probably need that kind money. On the teacher salary table I saw we here ranked 12th and the average was about $50,000.

Good point.

If you live in a 1200 Sq Ft house in Cresskill your taxes are in the $20,000 range.

[noonereal]

If all public service jobs are so bloody cushy and the bennies so great it amazes me that more people are not lined up with their CVs in hand at the government offices. .

That is the case out here.

People wait years and years for a job as a cook or even bottle washer just for the retirement benefits.

My buddy makes very good money, has his own small business. (north of $200,000) Runs it from his phone now. Plays golf all day and drinks all night with one exception, he drives a school bus 5 days a week when schools are open! No joke, he's been doing it forever just for the benefits.

[bobabode]

That is the case out here.

People wait years and years for a job as a cook or even bottle washer just for the retirement benefits.

My buddy makes very good money, has his own small business. (north of $200,000) Runs it from his phone now. Plays golf all day and drinks all night with one exception, he drives a school bus 5 days a week when schools are open! No joke, he's been doing it forever just for the benefits.

One question then for your friend, driving the school bus, is he paying in to SS?

[Dondilion]

Good point.

If you live in a 1200 Sq Ft house in Cresskill your taxes are in the $20,000 range.

The repubs were the ones who decided that a cap was needed. The dems fell down here and let the repubs take NJ.

[Boreas]

The repubs were the ones who decided that a cap was needed. The dems fell down here and let the repubs take NJ.

I dunno, Jersey seems to go back and forth. When I moved there in the '80s it was Tom Keane, a Republican. He was replaced by a Dem, Jim Florio, and he was replaced by Republican Christie Whitman. Then it was three more Republicans, four Democrats. Now The Thing That Ate New Jersey is in charge.

John

[merrylander]

i dunno, jersey seems to go back and forth. When i moved there in the '80s it was tom keane, a republican. He was replaced by a dem, jim florio, and he was replaced by republican christie whitman. Then it was three more republicans, four democrats. Now the thing that ate new jersey is in charge.

John

rotflmao

[Dondilion]

Now The Thing That Ate New Jersey is in charge.

John

That thing won because of his popular cap proposal (2% I think). Sadly he did not put a cap on his intake.:D

[Wasillaguy]

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson060912B.html

This guy's got skills with an ink pen.

[Boreas]

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson060912B.html

This guy's got skills with an ink pen.

You read Storm Front too?

John

[Wasillaguy]

Had to Google it, but I see you're implying I'm racist. Not sure how you got there, or how it has anything to do with the financial situation in Europe, but perhaps you could elaborate.

[Boreas]

Had to Google it, but I see you're implying I'm racist. Not sure how you got there, or how it has anything to do with the financial situation in Europe, but perhaps you could elaborate.

Not without being profoundly insulting.

John

[Wasillaguy]

Oh, I sincerely doubt there's anything you could say to insult me. I also doubt there's anything you could say that's profound. So go ahead, give it a shot- how did you arrive at the notion that I'm a white supremacist type?

[bobabode]

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson060912B.html

This guy's got skills with an ink pen.

Verrry interesting but shtupid.:p Every word of that diatribe, in case you gotta ask. Hanson? Oh please.

[BlueStreak]

Ah, Yes. Aryan Superiority, gotta love it.

Germans work longer?
But get 60 days of of government mandated paid time off every year, have healthcare provided for life.

Now, there's an example I can follow.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

Any rightie from Alaska's a W.A.R.

Or anyone else who doesn't like Obie ;)

Pete

[merrylander]

Ah, Yes. Aryan Superiority, gotta love it.

Germans work longer?
But get 60 days of of government mandated paid time off every year.

Now, there's an example I can follow.

Dave

And their company boards must have a specific number of workers on them as well as big money men.

[BlueStreak]

And their company boards must have a specific number of workers on them as well as big money men.

Yep. Here our corporate elite only want their employees to think they're part of the team.......Then fire them for using the executive toilet.

[bobabode]

Yep. Here our corporate elite only want their employees to think they're part of the team.......Then fire them for not scrubbing the executive toilet.

Fixied it up, I hope you don't mind Dave.:o

[Wasillaguy]

And their company boards must have a specific number of workers on them as well as big money men.

Workers with very brown noses, plugging the butts of the big money guys.

[finnbow]

Workers with very brown noses, plugging the butts of the big money guys.

Q: What's the difference between a brown nose and an ass-kisser?

A: Depth perception.;)

[merrylander]

Workers with very brown noses, plugging the butts of the big money guys.

Sorry but you are wrong, I knew several of the guys from Siemens and brown nosers they were not.