Well, Now That ObamaCare is legal . . .

[razorwired]

Shouldn't everyone just buckle down and abide by the law?

[HatchetJack]

You mean bend over?

[Boreas]

Shouldn't everyone just buckle down and abide by the law?

You mean bend over?

There's your answer, razorwired. The wing wankers will bitch and moan about it forever without ever bothering to learn what the bill really will do.

John

[bobabode]

You mean bend over?

Prostate exams are free under Obamacare. Drop 'em and grab your ankles.:rolleyes::p

[finnbow]

You mean bend over?

... and squeal like a pig.;)

http://www.canoekayakpoland.com/deliverance-3.jpg

[beej]

Seems like it would make more sense to have some level of understanding of the act before deciding it's impending doom.

[merrylander]

Seems like it would make more sense to have some level of understanding of the act before deciding it's impending doom.

Never stopped the wankers before, why now?

[whell]

Here's some "understanding" for you:

http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2012/06/28/health3_s640x727.jpg?d7424c57cb812afd2cfbb84826bdc e2ccfba6288

These numbers don't include the cost of the expansion of Medicaid at the state level, and the cost to the states to set up and run the Exchanges, which will add significant additional cost.

[Boreas]

So, the Moonie Times citing figures from the Teabagger Ways and Means Committee? Boy, talk about your authoritative unbiased sources! Great job, Whell!

John

[whell]

Nice try. Of course, I'm sure you'd attempt to discredit anything that wasn't sourced from Politico, CNN, the Huffington Post, or the DNC.

The black lines represent actual CBO estimates from 2010. Those CBO estimates where quite clear that the numbers where hard to nail down, since the HHS would still be fleshing out the specifics for years to come, economic conditions are always in flux, and the law would also be subject to SCOTUS and legislative activity.

However, even if the numbers remain consistent with the CBO's projections - which even the CBO doubts - we're still taking in a $570B on a plan that was originally projected to cost $1 trillion. And that assumes that programs that haven't been designed and rolled out yet produce every penny of projected savings that were forecast in 2009.

Right.

[beej]

Any thoughts on what the financial costs to all of us would be to continue having the numbers of uninsured that we presently have? Wonder if there are any numbers on that. Of course, that doesn't take into consideration the strain placed on the health care system that having the uninsured get their primary care from emergency rooms. And in the spirit of full disclosure, I have first hand experience with the degradation of care that those who are insured suffer as a consequence of an overworked emergency room. That kind of thing can't really be placed in dollars and cents terms.

[Boreas]

The black lines represent actual CBO estimates from 2010.

And the red lines?

John

[piece-itpete]

Based on my experience if you go to an emergency room fall on the floor, scream in pain, or cut yourself or you'll be there for a while.

Pete

[icenine]

Based on my experience if you go to an emergency room fall on the floor, scream in pain, or cut yourself or you'll be there for a while.

Pete

Yes that will indeed happen.....you have to stay in the hospital long enough to have a battery of unnecessary tests after you have fallen only because the doctors are afraid of the patient suing them after they are discharged. To be honest, this is why it takes so long. Good for us who work in hospitals;)

[merrylander]

They really should be called Waiting Rooms.

[whell]

And the red lines?

John

You blew them off, remember? So, my point was:

- A - the CBO discounts their own numbers, and said so in the report
- B - The revenue only covers a bit more than 1/2 of the $1 trillion cost of PPACA, so you'd better hope that either the revenue numbers gets larger, or the numbers from the savings assumptions - from programs which have yet to be implemented and are untested - grows.

Also worth mentioning, since the SCOTUS yesterday, with a 7 - 2 opinion, said that the Fed can's beat up the states to make them expand Medicare - there's likely going to be a lot more horse-trading necessary (meaning that PPACA is going to cost more. and maybe a lot more, to bring down the number of "uninsured" to meet the PPACA's stated goals) to bring the states in line.

Bottom line, if you want PPACA to work, you'd better pray that the red numbers are closer to being right than the black numbers!

[Boreas]

You blew them off, remember?

Ah, so they are Teabagger numbers!

So, my point was:

- A - the CBO discounts their own numbers, and said so in the report

It occurs to me that we only have your word for the source of those 2010 numbers. The only source cited in your chart is Ways and Means. Could you verify for us that the 2010 figures are indeed CBO numbers?

- B - The revenue only covers a bit more than 1/2 of the $1 trillion cost of PPACA,

Trillion? Where does that number come from?

Bottom line, if you want PPACA to work, you'd better pray that the red numbers are closer to being right than the black numbers!

Get rid of the Bush tax cuts and the problem - if there is one - is solved.

John

[beej]

I don't think anyone realistically believes that PPACA is in its final form. Virtually everyone associated with its passage (including the President) acknowledge that it was hardly perfect. There will be adjustments and accommodations made to deal with the inevitable bumps in the road.

[Zeke]

I don't think anyone realistically believes that PPACA is in its final form. Virtually everyone associated with its passage (including the President) acknowledge that it was hardly perfect. There will be adjustments and accommodations made to deal with the inevitable bumps in the road.

Correct. :D

[piece-itpete]

Plus we really won't know what it means until a coupla years of bureaucrats and judges tell us what it means.

Pete

[CarlV]

It looks like the market is up and staying up after all this. Even Rupert's rag is saying so.
http://quotes.wsj.com/index/DJI


Carl

[whell]

It occurs to me that we only have your word for those source of the 2010 numbers. The only source cited in your chart is Ways and Means. Could you verify for us that the 2010 figures are indeed CBO numbers?

They're all over the internet. As I've said before, I'm not doing your homework for you. Go find it. You'll see that estimates generally have a range and have been revised a bit, but right now estimates are around $540 with the last CBO estimate, which is a a couple years old now. Treat it as a learning opportunity! :cool:


Trillion? Where does that number come from?

Harry Reid. That was the number that he kept going back to when they were trying to get it passed, suggesting that HE wouldn't be satisfied unless they could keep bring in PPACA under $1 trillion. However, the CBO this spring estimated that the 2013-22 cost of implementing the act would amount to just over $1T. That is, if you accept Reuters as a source. :rolleyes:

http://ebn.benefitnews.com/news/ppaca-health-reform-cbo-cost-analysis-2722876-1.html

Get rid of the Bush tax cuts and the problem - if there is one - is solved.John

Give me a source for that projection, please. :p

[bhunter]

There's your answer, razorwired. The wing wankers will bitch and moan about it forever without ever bothering to learn what the bill really will do.

John

Do you know what the bill really does? I thought that was one of the major obstacles, namely, knowing all of the subsequent effects of the PPACA after implementation.

[piece-itpete]

bh, the bill makes our health care as good as France's :D

Pete

[Boreas]

They're all over the internet. As I've said before, I'm not doing your homework for you. Go find it.

That would be your homework,not mine. You're the one making the assertion, not me.

Give me a source for that projection, please. :p

Four trillion over 10 years. (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2010/12/05/Repealing-Tax-Cuts-Would-Meet-4-Trillion-Savings-Goal.aspx#page1)

John

[Oerets]

I don't recall ever hearing or reading that this bill was the final word in Healthcare policy. A beginning attempt to address a problem that went untouched for to many years. I think Truman tried in vain when England was setting up there system.
So I'm willing to give this a wait and see what it's like in twenty years. I think it will have an approval rating in the 90% just a few years after it is fully implemented. The GOP is scared $hitless because they fear the fallout from the voter then.

My brother in law, a big Tea Party, Rush listener even admitted he like most of the plan but hated the spokesman and the party credited with it's conception.

Barney

[whell]

That would be your homework,not mine. You're the one making the assertion, not me.



Four trillion over 10 years. (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2010/12/05/Repealing-Tax-Cuts-Would-Meet-4-Trillion-Savings-Goal.aspx#page1)

John

No, I've posted the evidence. if you want to refute, go for it.

As far as your post: DISQUALIFIED. The claim that it makes of the Bush tax cuts "hurting the middle class" has no merit or basis in fact. :p

[Boreas]

No, I've posted the evidence. if you want to refute, go for it.

Assertions are evidence of your own opinion and nothing more.

Okay, you're wrong. It's not true. There! I've refuted it. Now prove me wrong.

John

[whell]

Assertions are evidence of your own opinion and nothing more.

Okay, you're wrong. It's not true. There! I've refuted it. Now prove me wrong.

John

No, you're wrong. Mine is bigger! :D :cool:

[djv8ga]

bh, the bill makes our health care as good as France's :D

Pete
The French women don't have access to razors.
I hope that Lefty crap doesn't happen here. :mad:

[noonereal]

The French women don't have access to razors.
I hope that Lefty crap doesn't happen here. :mad:

We live in a wonderful era as far as things like that go. ;)

[d-ray657]

I don't think anyone realistically believes that PPACA is in its final form. Virtually everyone associated with its passage (including the President) acknowledge that it was hardly perfect. There will be adjustments and accommodations made to deal with the inevitable bumps in the road.

C'mon now, Beej. If you're gonna go and be all reasonable like that, we're not gonna have any fun. :rolleyes:

By the way, welcome to Political Chat. :)

Regards,

D-Ray

[bobabode]

Is it just me or is the righty contingent here acting more reasonable today? :rolleyes: Maybe it's just that Holder isn't getting prosecuted for telling Issa to stuff it and Obamacare passed with flying colors? Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside....naw it's probably those shitty drugs the surgeon used yesterday clouding my brain.:cool:

[Boreas]

The French women don't have access to razors.
I hope that Lefty crap doesn't happen here. :mad:

Why do you care about the personal grooming habits of people in another country and why are those habits somehow a "Lefty" thing?

John

[Rex E.]

The French women don't have access to razors.
I hope that Lefty crap doesn't happen here. :mad:

About an hour to and hour and a half north of ya you'll find all kinds of "Mt. Girls" as I remember them being called when I lived in Phoenix. :D

[djv8ga]

Why do you care about the personal grooming habits of people in another country and why are those habits somehow a "Lefty" thing?

John
So************************m leads to bad grooming. All you have to do is look at the hippy thing.

[djv8ga]

About an hour to and hour and a half north of ya you'll find all kinds of "Mt. Girls" as I remember them being called when I lived in Phoenix. :D
Yeah...Hippy girls. :(
You know how Lefty N. Az. is.

[Boreas]

So************************m leads to bad grooming. All you have to do is look at the hippy thing.

Spend a lit of time looking at hippie's things, do ya?

John

[djv8ga]

Spend a lit of time looking at hippie's things, do ya?

John
Just a lit.

[BlueStreak]

C'mon now, Beej. If you're gonna go and be all reasonable like that, we're not gonna have any fun. :rolleyes:

By the way, welcome to Political Chat. :)

Regards,

D-Ray

Correct. Like if Republicans get the chance, I'm pretty sure they will repeal it, repackage it with some goofy pseudo-patriotic name and call it their own.

As a matter of fact, did you listen to Romneys speech?

[BlueStreak]

The French women don't have access to razors.
I hope that Lefty crap doesn't happen here. :mad:

They smell too. But they have other skills that more than make up for it.:)

[djv8ga]

They smell too. But they have other skills that more than make up for it.:)
I've heard both.
Gotta go. See you Leftys Monday.

[wgrr]

bh, the bill makes our health care as good as France's :D

Pete

If only that was true.

[beej]

C'mon now, Beej. If you're gonna go and be all reasonable like that, we're not gonna have any fun. :rolleyes:

By the way, welcome to Political Chat. :)

Regards,

D-Ray

Oh; my bad. <Looking through my assortment of exremely moderate opinions for a something more confrontational>