Romney’s false scare story in Ohio

[CarlV]

What a serious a$$hole. Once again, the need to spew lies in an attempt to quickly slam his opponent rather than settle on waiting for the truth to come out.
Washington — Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney told a rally in northern Ohio on Thursday night that Chrysler was considering moving production of its Jeep vehicles to China, apparently reacting to incorrect reports circulating online.

"I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China," Romney said at a rally in Defiance, Ohio, home to a General Motors powertrain plant. "I will fight for every good job in America. I'm going to fight to make sure trade is fair, and if it's fair America will win."

Romney was apparently responding to reports Thursday on right-leaning blogs that misinterpreted a recent Bloomberg News story earlier this week that said Chrysler, owned by Italian automaker Fiat SpA, is thinking of building Jeeps in China for sale in the Chinese market.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121026/POLITICS01/210260402/1121/AUTO01/Romney--Chrysler-may-move-Jeep-production-to-China





Carl

[ebacon]

Jeep has been building in China for decades already. Their engine controls were in my jurisdiction as Sr. Engineer during the 1990s.

Romney is such a dick.

[CarlV]

Part 2:
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney repeated a false claim Thursday night that Chrysler Group may move all Jeep vehicle production to China, drawing criticism from the Obama campaign, which said the Michigan native had blatantly skewed a news wire story.

Romney’s comments came the same day that the Free Press reported that 1,100 new Chrysler workers will begin making the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango SUVs at a plant in Detroit next week.

http://www.freep.com/article/20121026/BUSINESS01/121026036/Romney-repeats-false-claim-of-Jeep-outsourcing-to-China-Chrysler-refutes-story?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|USATODAYARTICLE

:rolleyes:



Carl

[ebacon]

Mitt is intentionally confusing the issue.

Jeep vehicles built in China are sold in Asia, not the USA.

Jeep vehicles built in USA are sold in NAFTA and other regions.

There are also Jeep vehicles built in South America. Those are partially built in the USA and completed in South America to satisfy their local content requirements.

IIRC Jeep and Mercedes are the only vehicle brands that are sold in every nation on the earthball. The logistics are complex. Mitt is using scare tactics by saying OMGz0Rx!, Jeep is moving everything to China!

It's just not true.

Mitt might be qualified to advise the ice cream parlor owner up at Lake Fapakanutee or whatever it's called. But he is best to leave the tough stuff to the professionals in Toledo.

[CarlV]

I think he wants to keep slinging BS as it is dollar and labor intensive to disprove all this stuff he has been spewing and the sheeple are eating it up.
The jobs is the best one. His jobs record as governor in political office would scare off anybody from voting for them if they did their homework and found out the truth.

Carl

[Bigerik]

Gotta love the irony of Mitt warning people about jobs being sent overseas.

And how exactly is a free market capitalist supposed to fight for those jobs exactly? Isn't that the kind of government meddling in the free market that god fearing Republicans are supposed to despise?

[merrylander]

Hell he is only being a Republican, what do you expect?

[BlueStreak]

His constiuency is to a large degree populated with simpleminded people who think Republicans never lie......and he knows it. That's why he can spout this crap and tonight I will hear about it at the lunch table from folks who are still stocking up on ammo in preparation for the coming UN invasion/ Black Panther uprising.

Regards,
Dave

[bobabode]

Romney keeps jumping the shark on this issue. Even Chrysler says he's a bald faced lieing sack of liquid chit. Too bad you don't get the Young Turks, Dave. That guy Cenc Uyger is a stand up dude and unafraid to call it as he sees it. In no uncertain terms! Funny thing is he's so progressive that he also calls out the President for attempting to placate and appease these laughing hyenas in the House & Senate. I can't recommend his show enough.

[BlueStreak]

Mitt is intentionally confusing the issue.

Jeep vehicles built in China are sold in Asia, not the USA.

Jeep vehicles built in USA are sold in NAFTA and other regions.

There are also Jeep vehicles built in South America. Those are partially built in the USA and completed in South America to satisfy their local content requirements.

IIRC Jeep and Mercedes are the only vehicle brands that are sold in every nation on the earthball. The logistics are complex. Mitt is using scare tactics by saying OMGz0Rx!, Jeep is moving everything to China!

It's just not true.

Mitt might be qualified to advise the ice cream parlor owner up at Lake Fapakanutee or whatever it's called. But he is best to leave the tough stuff to the professionals in Toledo.

Not surprising at all and easy to do in a country full of people who think both GM and Chrysler are wholly and permanently owned by the U.S. Government. And, when you try to correct them, they laugh at you and ask you what "lame stream media" outlet fed you that crap. The lies are so deep that when you tell them something that should pretty much be common knowledge........they laugh at you.

I recall being informed, almost thirty years ago, that "no one makes cars in America anymore. They all come from Japan, all we do is change the badge on them." When I told him, "That's funny, half of my family gets up and goes to work building cars every day.", he got mad at me and started ridiculing me.

Regards,
Dave

[Bigerik]

I keep running into folks at the other place reading from the tea baggers bible and jumping into any thread on the Volt, GM, etc. no clue of the facts, of course. Or history. But the do love to grind away on the talking points they have been handed down.

[CarlV]

There is that and then there is this too. Romney can't hide this one and I am sure it is just the tip of the iceberg.
Just swoop in and buy Delphi stock at pennies on the dollar to gain controlling interest in Delphi. The threaten to withhold vital parts like steering columns from GM effectively shutting them down. Then extort the Federal bailout money going to Delphi so GM could buy Delphi and route it to Romneys partners hedge fund. Then the moved all Delphi plants to China, killing thousands of good paying union jobs, stick the Federal government with the workers pension fund, and walk away with a 3000% return on investment. Romney made in the range of 15 million to 115 million dollars in the deal. A fact his campaign does not dispute.

Some son of Detroit that would never do anything to hurt the US auto industry. It is getting old calling him a lying sack of liquid crap because all he does is lie.

http://truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/12273-romney-company-shipped-every-single-delphi-uaw-job-to-china



Carl

[ebacon]

Chrysler CEO Marchionne clarifies the story today.


"Jeep is one of our truly global brands with uniquely American roots. This will never change. So much so that we committed that the iconic Wrangler nameplate, currently produced in our Toledo, Ohio, plant, will never see full production outside the United States," Marchionne said. "Jeep assembly lines will remain in operation in the United States and will constitute the backbone of the brand. It is inaccurate to suggest anything different."



From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121030/AUTO0101/210300400#ixzz2Anro2Sbh
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121030/AUTO0101/210300400/Marchionne-Jeep-production-not-headed-China?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[d-ray657]

Romney is doubling down on his lie by running ads claiming the same thing. And the campaign states that it is going to expand the use of the false ad.

Regards,

D-Ray

[ebacon]

Romney might get himself executed. IME Ohioans are a straight shooting bunch that don't take lying lightly. All it takes is one.

We know it won't be Pete. He loves the Romster.

[piece-itpete]

Yes, Ohioans are going to shoot Romney - right after they elect him? :confused: ;)

Pete

[ebacon]

Thomas Dillon has relatives that might like tracking the R&R sportsman ticket. :D

[BlueStreak]

I keep running into folks at the other place reading from the tea baggers bible and jumping into any thread on the Volt, GM, etc. no clue of the facts, of course. Or history. But the do love to grind away on the talking points they have been handed down.

Yep. It's everywhere. If they think it sounds about right, it is.:rolleyes:

Regards,
Dave

[Boreas]

Romney is doubling down on his lie by running ads claiming the same thing. And the campaign states that it is going to expand the use of the false ad.

Regards,

D-Ray

The really disturbing thing is it has a good chance of working. I've never been so discouraged about the gullibility and indolence of the American voter as I am this time.

John

[ebacon]

The voters are innocent. They are waitresses, and bakers, and accountants, and cashiers, and . . .

Unless they have friends or family within Chrysler then they don't know what's going on at the Jeep plant in Toledo. It's up to Mitt to be honest with them. He is the guilty one, not the voters.

[CarlV]

I see, you are a folk hero if you are a billionaire gaming the tax system for a great many millions. But if you work 2 jobs to only make 20,000 a year to provide for a family of four you are a parasite for getting food stamps to make sure the kids are fed.
How stupid of me.


Carl

[Wasillaguy]

Chrysler CEO Marchionne clarifies the story today.





From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121030/AUTO0101/210300400#ixzz2Anro2Sbh
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121030/AUTO0101/210300400/Marchionne-Jeep-production-not-headed-China?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

So the Wrangler models are the only ones they've committed to continue making here... and not necessarily all of them. Last May, the best month ever for Wrangler sales, they still represented only 10.4% of vehicles sold by Jeep.
Assembly lines will keep running here, but at what capacity?
Lots of wiggle room in this press statement.

[ebacon]

So the Wrangler models are the only ones they've committed to continue making here... and not necessarily all of them. Last May, the best month ever for Wrangler sales, they still represented only 10.4% of vehicles sold by Jeep.
Assembly lines will keep running here, but at what capacity?
Lots of wiggle room in this press statement.

It looks like wiggle room to you, but it's not. The employees in Ohio know what is going on.

Here is a portion of Marchione's e-mail to employees earlier today.

In an e-mail to employees, the chief executive, Sergio Marchionne, said that Jeep’s commitment to the United States was unequivocal. “I feel obliged to unambiguously restate our position: Jeep production will not be moved from the United States to China,” he wrote. “It is inaccurate to suggest anything different.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/chrysler-ceo-jeep-production-isnt-moving-to-china/

Romney is intentionally making a mess and that's not a presidential quality.

[bobabode]

I don't see any wiggle room at all. I see Romney once again as a blatant liar who'll do anything or say anything to get into the White House. I'm with Ed, not presidential at all and I doubt that Ohioans will be fooled by it, even if he offered $10,000 cash to every undecided voter in the state.

Correction- cash offer would be in company store scrip :rolleyes:

GM spokesman
"GM has long built cars in China for consumers, and Chrysler previously built Jeeps in China. It is true that GM has cut jobs since 2008, but it might not be in business if Obama hadn't agreed to a $50 billion bailout. The U.S. job cuts had nothing to do with China, but with shrinking GM in order to restore profitability."

"At this stage, we're looking at Hubble telescope-length distances between campaign ads and reality. GM's creating jobs in the U.S. and repatriating profits back to this country should be a source of bipartisan pride," GM spokesman Greg Martin said. "We've clearly entered some parallel universe during these last few days. No amount of campaign politics at its cynical worst will diminish our record of creating jobs in the U.S. and repatriating profits back to this country."


From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121030/AUTO0101/210300400#ixzz2ApMlUMj4

[CarlV]

Looks like we got birther Version II going here. Keep denying and it will come true.



Carl

[d-ray657]

So the Wrangler models are the only ones they've committed to continue making here... and not necessarily all of them. Last May, the best month ever for Wrangler sales, they still represented only 10.4% of vehicles sold by Jeep.
Assembly lines will keep running here, but at what capacity?
Lots of wiggle room in this press statement.

Are you actually trying to defend that four pinnochio, pants on fire, whopper? :confused:

BTW, Jeep has plans to add 1100 jobs in Ohio in 2013. (http://blog.chryslergroupllc.com/entry/1950/message_from_sergio_marchionne_regarding__jeep_pro duction) The company is also making several models in the US.

Regards,

D-Ray

[ebacon]

In D-Ray's link there is a statement that is loaded, but it's not about building Jeep vehicles in the USA.

Here is the statement:
Chrysler Group is interested in expanding the customer base for our award-winning Jeep vehicles [in China], which can only be done by establishing local production.

That statement is loaded because it hints at how uneven the playing field is between China and US. When China entered the WTO in 2001 it was obligated to drop local content requirements. So far it has not completely done so. That is why, as a practical matter, if a US firm want to sell in China it must also build in China.

Here is an article on the topic. Note that is written by a Chinese author. He says sure, we still require local content, but don't worry about it. Even if we steal your intellectual property we will never catch up to your awesomeness.

http://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/24/05/2012/what-does-globalization-mean-china%E2%80%99s-economic-development

Yeah, right. Wink, wink back atcha. What a punk.

This is the sort of game that Trump is referring to when he says that the USA is crazy for engaging in unfettered free trade with China while they are engaging in strategic trade with us. I must agree with him on that point.

[finnbow]

This is the sort of game that Trump is referring to when he says that the USA is crazy for engaging in unfettered free trade with China while they are engaging in strategic trade with us. I must agree with him on that point.

Perhaps, but that message needs a far better messenger.

[ebacon]

Perhaps, but that message needs a far better messenger.

Unfortunately it appears that he is the only one we have so far. This is a story that just isn't getting out.

[merrylander]

If it is any use to bother writing this, my last employment was with a software company that did VOiP software. They were bought out by a large Texas company that rushed to do business in China. Despite anything they may have promised the WTO you still have to follow their rules (not the WTO's) to do business in China. Now if you don't mind having all your intellectual propery stolen or reverse engineered keep doing business with them. That said they still can't build a jet engine worth chit.

[Boreas]

Real Clear Politics has moved Michigan from Obama to "Toss Up". Here's why: although the President's numbers have remained steady, there has been a 2% shift to Romney among undecided voters. In Ohio there has been a similar spike for Romney but, fortunately, also for Obama. It looks like that lying piece of shit has hit pay dirt with his damned ad.

John

[ebacon]

Karl Rove is good at one thing and that is getting Republicans elected. Whether his style is a role model for self-government is unfortunately an entirely different issue.

[Boreas]

Karl Rove is good at one thing and that is getting Republicans elected. Whether his style is a role model for self-government is unfortunately an entirely different issue.

Here's how it works.

You tell a stupid, outrageous lie on the campaign trail.

The opposition reacts in a big way.

Capitalizing on all the noise, you double down and produce a TV ad spouting the same bullshit.

The opposition reacts by creating their own ad to counter the lie.

The auto companies who have been the target of the lying accusations respond in the press, denying the accusation.

You then start picking apart the opposition's and the company's denials, claiming that any supposed inconsistencies or any words that can be characterized as "ambiguous" or "evasive" are proof that you were right all along.

More opposition reaction.

The lie never goes away.

John

[merrylander]

As Churchill noted "A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its pants on."

[piece-itpete]

I hear the radio ad on this often.

It's certainly not the brazen lie touted here. A bit misleading, yes...

Are the plants in China unionized? Do they help the blue collar guys here?

Pete

[ebacon]

I hear the radio ad on this often.

It's certainly not the brazen lie touted here. A bit misleading, yes...

Are the plants in China unionized? Do they help the blue collar guys here?

Pete

Labor unions are illegal in China. I think their auto workers make about $1/hr. That's what US labor is racing to the bottom against.

Selling in China does not create work for US auto workers. If the corporation makes some money in China then the US workers might get some benefit through profit sharing. It depends on their labor contract.

[Boreas]

I hear the radio ad on this often.

It's certainly not the brazen lie touted here. A bit misleading, yes...

Are the plants in China unionized? Do they help the blue collar guys here?

Pete

Read this. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/4-pinocchios-for-mitt-romneys-misleading-ad-on-chrysler-and-china/2012/10/29/2a153a04-21d7-11e2-ac85-e669876c6a24_blog.html)

John

[finnbow]

Labor unions are illegal in China. I think their auto workers make about $1/hr. That's what US labor is racing to the bottom against.

Selling in China does not create work for US auto workers. If the corporation makes some money in China then the US workers might get some benefit through profit sharing. It depends on their labor contract.

Unless doing so helps the company remain solvent/profitable. The unions for Mercedes and BMW (IG Metall) haven't objected to some of their cars being built overseas (including in the non-union American South) because they believe it will help the companies they work for remain solvent. Same diff with Chrysler and China.

[piece-itpete]

So outsourcing is OK?

Pete

[Wasillaguy]

Sounds like the unions are aware they are the problem.

[finnbow]

So outsourcing is OK?

Pete

It's not outsourcing to build a plant in a foreign country to serve that market. I guess we should fry chicken here and keep it hot while we air freight it to China for their KFC's.

[piece-itpete]

So let me wander here for a minute. Jeep opens a brand spankin' new state-of-the-art plant in China. It booms. Their per unit cost is 25% less. They're NOT going to start importing them? I don't 'buy' it.

Unless Jeeps get old soggy and cold during transport :p

I'm having fun with this. I'm all for GM & Ford (heck on foreign Jeep to a degree) making a killing in China. But I'm sensing some odd twisting here :D

Pete

[Boreas]

Sounds like the unions are aware they are the problem.

You really should try to inform yourself about something before shooting off your mouth.

John

[ebacon]

Wasilla is particularly incoherent today.

[Wasillaguy]

You really should try to inform yourself about something before shooting off your mouth.

John

I did inform myself, I read this post-

"The unions for Mercedes and BMW (IG Metall) haven't objected to some of their cars being built overseas (including in the non-union American South) because they believe it will help the companies they work for remain solvent."

Unions believe non-union plants will help keep their companies afloat. Yup, sounds like the unions know they are the problem.

[finnbow]

I did inform myself, I read this post-

"The unions for Mercedes and BMW (IG Metall) haven't objected to some of their cars being built overseas (including in the non-union American South) because they believe it will help the companies they work for remain solvent."

Unions believe non-union plants will help keep their companies afloat. Yup, sounds like the unions know they are the problem.

IG Metall has agreed with the German manufacturers opening plants overseas as they believe it will help the companies remain profitable and help them keep their union jobs. I think IG Metall is largely agnostic about whether the plants overseas are unionized or not.

That said, if I were a foreign company opening a plant in the US, I would do my best to locate it in a place free from the UAW.

[Boreas]

Unions believe non-union plants will help keep their companies afloat. Yup, sounds like the unions know they are the problem.

No, the German trade unions recognize that expanding into other countries is good for the health of their employers. Union vs. non-union isn't really an issue because they recognize that unionization is a highly variable thing in other countries.

Again, inform yourself about German unions. They are organized differently, are more enmeshed in corporations, including having seats on the Boards of many companies - by law- and are an integral part of the success and health of the German economy and industry.

John

[Wasillaguy]

No, the German trade unions recognize that expanding into other countries is good for the health of their employers. Union vs. non-union isn't really an issue because they recognize that unionization is a highly variable thing in other countries.

Again, inform yourself about German unions. They are organized differently, are more enmeshed in corporations, including having seats on the Boards of many companies - by law- and are an integral part of the success and health of the German economy and industry.

John

They sure are organized differently, the trade union leaders are in bed with the corporations. Works a hell of a lot better (for the company) than here.
Do you know why you don't often see German union workers on strike? They gave away the right to strike.

[finnbow]

They sure are organized differently, the trade union leaders are in bed with the corporations. Works a hell of a lot better (for the company) than here.
Do you know why you don't often see German union workers on strike? They gave away the right to strike.

Says who?

http://www.just-auto.com/news/ig-metall-threatens-strike-action-if-65-pay-demand-is-not-met_id122604.aspx

[Boreas]

Do you know why you don't often see German union workers on strike? They gave away the right to strike.

Says who?

http://www.just-auto.com/news/ig-metall-threatens-strike-action-if-65-pay-demand-is-not-met_id122604.aspx



https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRn51TcZ2ptamFbl4I52FvFRRLfOpFAo OBpOvvBaXBTpLeLRYyY

Like I said, you need to do a little studying before shooting your mouth off.

John

[Charles]

IG Metall has agreed with the German manufacturers opening plants overseas as they believe it will help the companies remain profitable and help them keep their union jobs. I think IG Metall is largely agnostic about whether the plants overseas are unionized or not.

That said, if I were a foreign company opening a plant in the US, I would do my best to locate it in a place free from the UAW.

As would I.

Chas

[bobabode]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRn51TcZ2ptamFbl4I52FvFRRLfOpFAo OBpOvvBaXBTpLeLRYyY

Like I said, you need to do a little studying before shooting your mouth off.

John

Never happen, it wouldn't be prudent...:rolleyes:

[merrylander]

If you could forget your bias for maybe a day and look into the history of the UAW they did a lot of good. And like most 'good old days' the good old days of the big three were not.

[Bigerik]

IG Metall has agreed with the German manufacturers opening plants overseas as they believe it will help the companies remain profitable and help them keep their union jobs. I think IG Metall is largely agnostic about whether the plants overseas are unionized or not.

That said, if I were a foreign company opening a plant in the US, I would do my best to locate it in a place free from the UAW.

Well of course. Why pay a decent wage to your workers, with good benefits on top. Just plant it in a southern republican state and they will be happy to get Walmart wages for the job.

[piece-itpete]

Iirc back in the early 2000s' Germany put through a bunch of labor law reforms, with much wailing.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Iirc back in the early 2000s' Germany put through a bunch of labor law reforms, with much wailing.

Pete

As much wailing as we had to endure after 2008 election?

In the 1930s-40s Hitler sent labor unionists to the deathcamps. I'm sure he just wanted to empower the remaining employees.:rolleyes:

Regards,
Dave

[ebacon]

Arbeit Macht Frei!

[Rex E.]

Arbeit Macht Frei!

Machen sie schnell!