PDA

View Full Version : What's next for religious conservatives?


finnbow
11-11-2012, 02:34 PM
After their recent shellacking, what's next for the Religious Right? It seems that their views on gays, abortion and other social issues are out of step with the majority of the country, and far out of step with youthful voters.

The red meat rhetoric that excites them is the very same rhetoric that has led many others (young folks, women, gays ...) to support the Democrats, even if they find themselves holding their noses at other Dem policies. Furthermore, in that such fundamentalist beliefs are strongest in the South (where nativism and racism still unfortunately exist), appealing to fundamentalists also risks alienating blacks, Hispanics and other minorities.

Will the Religious Right maintain its influence in the GOP, and if they do, will it perpetuate their demographic problems?

bobabode
11-11-2012, 03:25 PM
I just wish those in the religulous right would stop trying to trigger Armegeddon.

merrylander
11-11-2012, 03:56 PM
Like the man said they are neither - religious nor right.

Zeke
11-11-2012, 05:05 PM
After their recent shellacking, what's next for the Religious Right?

Marginalization.

finnbow
11-11-2012, 05:28 PM
Marginalization.

If they marginalize the Religious Right and the Teabaggers (both groups contributed to the loss), they'll have nobody left but old whites and the wealthy.

d-ray657
11-11-2012, 05:34 PM
If they marginalize the Religious Right and the Teabaggers (both groups contributed to the loss), they'll have nobody left but old whites and the wealthy.

Redundant.

Regards,

D-Ray

finnbow
11-11-2012, 05:38 PM
Redundant.

Regards,

D-Ray

Actually, I may have been triply redundant with Teabaggers, old whites and the Religious Right.

dmax99
11-11-2012, 08:26 PM
Them & the over zealous gun freaks should be ignored for the most part,They've got nowhere else to go.

merrylander
11-12-2012, 07:47 AM
Be careful, I'm old, I'm white and I'm conservative and I would not give the GOP the sweat of my cojones.

noonereal
11-12-2012, 08:04 AM
What's next for religious conservatives?


They will wither on the vine.

ebacon
11-12-2012, 08:06 AM
Since the election there has been a lot of chatter about how to bring more people over to the GOP. None of what I have heard involves any substance however. All they seem to be asking is how can they advertise to a larger audience. That's akin to asking what flavor icing can they put on the crappy policy agenda to make it more palatable.

What they need to do is explain how their policy agenda benefits a larger number of voters. If they can't do that then they need to change their policy agenda too, not just their advertising.

BlueStreak
11-12-2012, 09:22 AM
I'm just tired of being told what I need to give up next to keep the rich folks happy.
And tired of being treated like I'm a whining little kid and/or I'm somehow a lesser American if I don't want to hand over my medicare and social security benefits so The Donald can get a tax cut.............

I'm so tired of that contived shit I could just choke the next dumbass that pulls it on me.

No, I don't give a flying shit if it hurts a billionaires feelings to have his taxes raised. He isn't going to miss any meals. F**k him.

Regards,
Dave

ebacon
11-12-2012, 09:31 AM
They are never happy.

I learned that on the aviation board debating against the 1%.

I have been busting my ass since I got out of high school. Working on farms, going to school at night, working as a technician, going to school at night, working as an engineer, going to school at night, finally becoming a patent attorney, not some scumbag ambulance chaser.

And what does some 1% f*ck tell me? I'm a mooch and he is a job creator. What did he do for a living again? Hmmm. Live with his parent's in a mansion and rip off the elderly in sweepstakes scams.

That is one f*cker I will not make it a point to meet. I would end up in prison.

The rest of the 1% has at least the same proportion of assholes as the majority of the population. Probably more. They are nothing special. They just have the ability to make bigger messes.

Zeke
11-12-2012, 09:59 AM
What they need to do is explain how their policy agenda benefits a larger number of voters.

Well, you see, they can't do that.

So they just try to scare people.

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 10:58 AM
I disagree, the GOP should stick on message - and do a better job of explaining it to minorities. Black folks and Hispanics are much more socially conservative than what I usually hear from the left.

As far as the original post, throughout much of history we've been marginalized - we will continue getting on with or without political influence. I suspect though that we will retain an outsided amount compared to our numbers.

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 11:05 AM
I disagree, the GOP should stick on message - and do a better job of explaining it to minorities. Black folks and Hispanics are much more socially conservative than what I usually hear from the left.

As far as the original post, throughout much of history we've been marginalized - we will continue getting on with or without political influence. I suspect though that we will retain an outsided amount compared to our numbers.

Pete

C'mon Pete. Tell us a story.

What is the message and how do republican party policy agendas benefit minorities?

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 11:38 AM
Ok, ok, I'll tell you a story. It's about how poor people can only put out their garbage if the can is COMPLETELY full, and get fined if it's not. Heaven help them if it's out too early, or late.

I might be tempted to blather on about how only middle class people have easy access to things like Walmart.

With the proper beer, one could possibly get me to continue telling the horrific story of paying middle class people to crush their old cars, driving up used car prices and shrinking junkyard parts availability, or perhaps making gas expensive.

Then I'd get a little tired. Maybe another installment another time ;)

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 11:44 AM
Ok, ok, I'll tell you a story. It's about how poor people can only put out their garbage if the can is COMPLETELY full, and get fined if it's not. Heaven help them if it's out too early, or late.

I might be tempted to blather on about how only middle class people have easy access to things like Walmart.

With the proper beer, one could possibly get me to continue telling the horrific story of paying middle class people to crush their old cars, driving up used car prices and shrinking junkyard parts availability, or perhaps making gas expensive.

Then I'd get a little tired. Maybe another installment another time ;)

Pete

OK. So the Republicans were against Cash for Clunkers. That's a solid point.

Which Republican policy were you talking about when you referred to full garbage cans?

As for Wal-Mart, and every other store in the nation, being full of cheap imported goods, it was Al Gore that sold that idea to America. Republicans can't take credit on the sales pitch.

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 11:49 AM
I'm speaking about poor people. The Democrat paradise also known as Cleveland Ohio amd it's likeminded inner ring suburbs are a giant patronage machine (including the garbage pickup and keeping large stores out, in Cleveland). You don't even want to know about the schools.

Pete

merrylander
11-12-2012, 11:52 AM
Then you need to change your local government, only restriction I have is no more than four bags/boxes - don't have a garbage can.

No idea where Wally World is and no desire to find out.

Still driving two 12 year old cars and will keep on as long as they are good.

As it was recounted here the very rich should keep on getting the lion's share of everything. The SS contract is not really a contract. We the wealtiest nation cannot afford universal health care. Drug companies should be allowed to carge the unconscionable prices that they do. We tax the wealthy too much. That was the GOP message hereabouts so we went to the polls and told them where to stick it.

ebacon
11-12-2012, 11:52 AM
I'm speaking about poor people. The Democrat paradise also known as Cleveland Ohio amd it's likeminded inner ring suburbs are a giant patronage machine (including the garbage pickup and keeping large stores out, in Cleveland). You don't even want to know about the schools.

Pete

Sounds like the same problem the Detroit metro area is facing.

What policy goals of the Republican party address the problems?

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 12:31 PM
Rob our problems are so different than the poors.

Even though the scale is different I believe Cleveland and Detroit share many common problems.

Even if the GOP agenda is advanced (all the problems I mentioned are government union-driven) there is simply no way. Even though here the Dem leadership is a bunch of snakes, the poor largely see the Dems as part of their identity.

Consider Kucinich had to bankrupt the city for a Rep mayor to get in.

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 12:40 PM
. . . Even if the GOP agenda is advanced (all the problems I mentioned are government union-driven) . . .

How is it that all the problems are caused by government unions?

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 12:45 PM
Patronage jobs. Wonder why I don't worry about my garbage can?

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 12:53 PM
Patronage jobs. Wonder why I don't worry about my garbage can?

Pete

Let's try this again.

How does the Republican policy agenda fix the problem? Let's try it with a hypothetical.

Waving magic wand -- taadaa. Suppose Cleveland outlaws government unions. Now how do things get better?

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 12:58 PM
Costs would go way down of course, and maybe they could put their trash out like us rich folks.

Why did the Democrat mayor Jackson take on the teacher's union?

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 01:02 PM
Costs would go way down of course, and maybe they could put their trash out like us rich folks.

Why did the Democrat mayor Jackson take on the teacher's union?

Pete

OK. Costs go down.

So now you have a consituency that was already poor and paying $0 taxes anyway and you toss in a few city workers that now make less money.

Tell us the part where things get better.

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 01:15 PM
Screwing people with water costs?

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 01:24 PM
Screwing people with water costs?

Pete

OK. So now people in the city have a lower water bill. How much lower? Maybe a dollar a month?

Schools are crumbling, homes are in foreclosure and crumbling, and people in the city have one extra dollar a month.

What now? How does the Republican agenda make things even better? I can tell you now that the city dwellers don't give a crap about that dollar a month. You don't have their votes yet.

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 01:33 PM
Patronage jobs always help the city. Maybe they can hire everyone at inflated wages - problem solved! :p

Btw, schools here are only crumbling on the inside. They recently had a billion dollar rebuild.

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 02:10 PM
Patronage jobs always help the city. Maybe they can hire everyone at inflated wages - problem solved! :p

Btw, schools here are only crumbling on the inside. They recently had a billion dollar rebuild.

Pete

Now you are being sarcastic. Whites being sarcastic won't draw in ethnic voters.

Is a dollar off the water bill as good as the Republican agenda gets? Or is there more?

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 02:23 PM
Now you're oversimplifying.... it would be a LOT more than a buck. It's the root of their problems. Again, why'd the Dem mayor go after the teachers' union?

What ethniticity are you representing? ;)

Pete

Boreas
11-12-2012, 02:34 PM
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/258144/december-08-2009/andy-schlafly

ebacon
11-12-2012, 02:36 PM
Now you're oversimplifying.... it would be a LOT more than a buck. It's the root of their problems. Again, why'd the Dem mayor go after the teachers' union?

What ethniticity are you representing? ;)

Pete

You where the one whining that ethnic voters didn't understand the Republican agenda. Help them understand.

OK, let's say you are right again and the savings would be a lot more than a dollar a month. Let's go fantastical and say the savings are ten dollars a month per person.

Again, we have a dilapidated city. The citizens each have ten extra bucks a month of welfare money to spend.

Tell us how things get better from there.

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 02:51 PM
$10 per person is almost 4 million dollars a month. But I suspect they'd save that on trash pickup alone.

My whining was that the poor self identify with the Dems. And all they'll have is welfare until the government gets out of the way.

And btw, government workers do not have to live in Cleveland city limits, and if they had kids they'd be wise not to do so.

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 03:00 PM
$10 per person is almost 4 million dollars a month. But I suspect they'd save that on trash pickup alone.

My whining was that the poor self identify with the Dems. And all they'll have is welfare until the government gets out of the way.

And btw, government workers do not have to live in Cleveland city limits, and if they had kids they'd be wise not to do so.

Pete


OK. Let's assume you are right. The inner city people have 4 million dollars a month of welfare money to spend. A few city workers now live in the burbs and they have less money since their union was outlawed. Maybe a few of them will lose their homes and begin to decay the suburbs where they lived.

You have gotten everything you want.

Tell us how things get better.

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 03:04 PM
Hard to argue with this guy:

http://jazzroc.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/straw-man.jpg

;)

I would argue that anything is better than what the left is doing now. Although perhaps we can get a few more of them tossed in jail...

Pete

finnbow
11-12-2012, 03:07 PM
I would argue that anything is better than what the left is doing now. Although perhaps we can get a few more of them tossed in jail...

Pete

Move to Mississippi and then make this argument.

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 03:11 PM
Unfortunately that is a different constituency...

Were they ever as successful as Cleveland or Detroit?

Wait a sec - they're closing car plants here, and opening them there.

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 03:26 PM
Hard to argue with this guy:

http://jazzroc.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/straw-man.jpg

;)

I would argue that anything is better than what the left is doing now. Although perhaps we can get a few more of them tossed in jail...

Pete

You gave up.

That's not going to attract ethnic voters.

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 03:41 PM
Let's take one of your flawed oversimplifications. That Cleveland residents - welfare recipients all? - would get any savings, by your theory $10/month.

In reality the city government would. Maybe 48 million would pay for some cops, but who wants a lower murder rate?

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 03:46 PM
Let's take one of your flawed oversimplifications. That Cleveland residents - welfare recipients all? - would get any savings, by your theory $10/month.

In reality the city government would. Maybe 48 million would pay for some cops, but who wants a lower murder rate?

Pete

Make all the assumptions you want and run with it.

Control your story and tell us how the Republican policy agenda fixes the city.

I have not fought you at all. Why are you getting pissy?

finnbow
11-12-2012, 03:49 PM
Make all the assumptions you want and run with it.

Control your story and tell us how the Republican policy agenda fixes the city.

I have not fought you at all. Why are you getting pissy?

I think they want the inner city blacks to self-deport to Ghana or Liberia.;)

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 03:50 PM
I think I've been the model of self restraint ;)

I'm uncertain how much of a billboard I need to rent. Patronage is killing the city, the Dem machine! is killing the city. Get rid of the patronage....

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 03:55 PM
I think I've been the model of self restraint ;)

I'm uncertain how much of a billboard I need to rent. Patronage is killing the city, the Dem machine! is killing the city. Get rid of the patronage....

Pete

Congratulations. You are total failure at selling the modern Republican agenda to a bigger audience.

Anyone else want to try?

piece-itpete
11-12-2012, 03:59 PM
So our argument comes down to, keep the patronage machine?

I don't think we're following each other here.

Pete

ebacon
11-12-2012, 04:06 PM
I disagree, the GOP should stick on message - and do a better job of explaining it to minorities. . . .

Pete

Let's go back to square one. Go ahead and do that job of "explaining it to minorities".

Last time you fell flat on your face. In a nutshell you sent the message that n*ggers need to stop working for the city and that would fix everything.

I don't think you are going to add votes for the Republican party with that message. In addition I don't think that such a policy would do anything for the economy so you lost my cracker ass vote, too.

Boreas
11-12-2012, 04:36 PM
Congratulations. You are total failure at selling the modern Republican agenda to a bigger audience.

Anyone else want to try?

Sell it?? Hell, he wouldn't even mention it!


John

Boreas
11-12-2012, 04:38 PM
So our argument comes down to, keep the patronage machine?

I don't think we're following each other here.

Pete

Okay, Pete, we get it. Get rid of patronage and the Democratic machine. Now, what do you replace them with and how does that solve the problem?

John

CarlV
11-12-2012, 04:44 PM
Control your story and tell us how the Republican policy agenda fixes the city.




What he said.


Carl

BlueStreak
11-12-2012, 07:01 PM
Auto plants are not leaving Michigan and going to Mississippi. They're leaving the country. As are many manufacturing jobs. And, at this point in history, it has little to do with unions. Non union plants are still more expensive to run anywhere in the United States than in the latest third world shithole where it's become fashionable for the pigs to go exploit misery.

I have recently been informed by our friend, Flacaltenn, that the Chinese workers are "....joining the middle class and holding out for more money.".....Which, of course means the insatiable (Whom the GOP intends to attempt to keep satisfied.:confused:) are now starting to leave China.

Funny, how everywhere the the Lassez-Faire Capitalist a-holes go, labor unrest and social upheaval arises a decade or so later.................:rolleyes:

To my mind, the answer as difficult as it would be, is to bring the rest of the world UP to our standards, leaving them nowhere to go.

Regards,
Dave

Boreas
11-12-2012, 07:16 PM
Auto plants are not leaving Michigan and going to Mississippi. They're leaving the country. As are many manufacturing jobs. And, at this point in history, it has little to do with unions. Non union plants are still more expensive to run anywhere in the United States than in the latest third world shithole where it's become fashionable for the pigs to go exploit misery.

It's worse than that, Dave. Guess who the next third world shithole is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/08/foxconn-plan-factories-us-america

Little wheels spin and spin, big wheels turn around and around

John

BlueStreak
11-12-2012, 07:29 PM
Well, it would be good to see some jobs come here, John.

The question is; Will they be decent jobs?

Foxxcon does NOT have the greatest reputation in that regard......to say the least.

As a side note;

The Ford plant we USED to have, here in Virginia..........went to Detroit in 2008.

Regards,
Dave

mpholland
11-12-2012, 08:18 PM
I suppose the Republicans might be able to start by figuring out that 3rd and 4th generation latinos aren't all illegal wetbacks. Maybe they will get with the program and make the social security wage base something like a couple million instead of 100K. That might swing a few people. On the other hand, maybe they could just quit screwing around and shoot themselves in the head instead of the foot and make room for another party. I wonder what this post would sound like if I wasn't somewhat conservative? :)

d-ray657
11-12-2012, 08:24 PM
I suppose the Republicans might be able to start by figuring out that 3rd and 4th generation latinos aren't all illegal wetbacks. Maybe they will get with the program and make the social security wage base something like a couple million instead of 100K. That might swing a few people. On the other hand, maybe they could just quit screwing around and shoot themselves in the head instead of the foot and make room for another party. I wonder what this post would sound like if I wasn't somewhat conservative? :)

I am enjoying you posts - even when you skewer my guys. But I gotta admit that I like it better when you give it to the GOP :cool:

Regards,

D-Ray

ebacon
11-12-2012, 08:45 PM
IMO the Republican voters have their heads screwed on straight. Reducing federal government intervention in the economy does tend to reduce the size of economic disasters and improve stability. For example investors would not be tempted to overbuild housing, and thereby vacuum the middle class out of cities, if those investors knew that the federal government would not be willing to bail them out if and when they exceed demand and the market crashes. The same goes for government intervention in the insurance business such as national flood insurance, government intervention in manufacturing such as green initiatives, etc.

Where Republican voters are getting cranked is their new politicians say they are doing that stuff in Washington when most of them are not. Most of them are a new class that is focused on getting reyotch beyotch. Traditional honor and statesmanship is dead in their ranks.

Jim Leach is probably the biggest crook ringleader of them all IMO. When I read that now he wants to increase government backing for reverse mortgages I almost fell over. That's all we need is to allow aged millionaires to suck equity out of their mansions to buy new yachts and airplanes and then, when the fake market crashes again, say so sorry. No one could have saw that coming. Bail us out again.

Grrr.

In summary -- IMO Republican voters = good hearts but have trouble articulating it. Neocon Republican politicians = crooks.

It's the politicians that need votes, not the redneck voters. Therefore the politicians need to clean up their mess. The rednecks don't want to do it for them. It is against their principles and that is perfectly understandable.

piece-itpete
11-13-2012, 09:02 AM
There is no doubt who the crooks in Cleveland are.

I suppose the Republicans might be able to start by figuring out that 3rd and 4th generation latinos aren't all illegal wetbacks. Maybe they will get with the program and make the social security wage base something like a couple million instead of 100K. That might swing a few people. On the other hand, maybe they could just quit screwing around and shoot themselves in the head instead of the foot and make room for another party. I wonder what this post would sound like if I wasn't somewhat conservative? :)

Didn't the Democrats fix this when they were in control?

Pete

merrylander
11-13-2012, 12:38 PM
No comment :)

bobabode
11-23-2012, 05:13 PM
Good one Rob!http://www.politicalchat.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=1522&d=1352828308