At an impasse with Politics and family

[Oerets]

Yesterday my 86 year old Mother called asking to be taken to the Doctor. Seems the Oxygen caused a server nose bleed.

Well all most as soon as I show up it starts. "How could you vote for that Muslim?" Now she has a real hard time hearing and understanding conversations along with the TV.

But the arguments she was using were all ones straight out of the mouths of my sisters and their husbands. The same vile lies I have been hearing for the last six months, no five years!

Like He grew up in Kenya is a So************************t going to take away her SS and Medicare. Played golf after the Hurricane was the newest one. Seems she just was told the Obama went to Burma to play golf the day after Sandy hit NY. Or went on vacation during the attack on Mumbazzie when our people got killed! I know where this one comes from, my sister just used that one two or three days before. Seems she got Benghazi somehow confused. Correcting her didn't take it now seems.

Now I know because if her hearing she has gotten stories confused but she was so worked up I refused to correct the mistake.

The problem as I see it is some of my family the Tea Party ones. Who are very vocal talk there crap in front of my Mother. Get her blood up just like theirs. Then when I show up force conversations not really intended or wanting.

Will do no good to say anything to them about it because they think I'm the one needing to see the light. But I just see a 86 year old woman whose blood pressure is unduly high, when not needing to be. Best to leave Politics out of her daily worries.

Tried talking to one of my brothers and he just said to refuse to bite when provoked. I try and try but it is hard not to correct someone when needed.

Why does everyone have to yell when they talk politics any more??? Or is it just my family?



Barney

[ebacon]

Yelling is what the talking heads do on TV. Citizens mimic that behaviour.

Speaking of media and politics, how noisy is politics in Canada? It hit me last night that in my years of listening to Canadian radio stations I don't recall hearing a campaign ad.

[Bigerik]

From what I have seen of my US tea bagger family, thats how they operate too. TONS of bad info, shared liberally ( ;)). I had to correct one of the deacons at the church shortly after Obama won, reminding him that not everyone had voted against Obama, when he called for prayer for a president that no one supported. From the pulpit yet!

[d-ray657]

I have one brother who is a Pat Robertson Republican, one who is a corporate Republican, one who is a right-leaning independent, and one who is more liberal than me. When my mother was suffering from Alzheimer's, it brought us all together and we were able to avoid much mention of politics at all. Maybe it helped that we live in different parts of the country, but we were able to avoid any political friction when Mom needed us to be together. Could a family truce work out for you with an agreement to focus on your mother's needs outside of politics?

Regards,

D-Ray

[icenine]

I think sometimes it is just a hatred of government as an abstact idea, although people do not think that way about the programs they like. I imagine if it was a white Democrat or a wonky Republican everyone would be cranky about them to. Obama is just more of a lightning rod since he is black and has a Middle Eastern middle name. I think it is the effect of the constant babble from right wing guys like Rush just stirring the pot everyday to get us old people pissed off and at the same time make money for the sponsor.
Out here Orets Clear Channel through its power house AM station KFI 640 has these guys named John and Ken who are basically Limbaugh on steroids for the afternoon rush hour through out LA,Orange, Riverside and San Diego Counties. They hate everyone and everything .....immigrants,liberals,lawyers,feminists,car pool lanes. They spew resentment and just get everyone riled up....and they have a large audience stuck in traffice getting even more upset along with them. This is where it just seeps in this general resentment of government, as if it were a terrible thing. Brought to you by Clear Channel. Fox News does sort of the same thing I think.

[BlueStreak]

Had a guy ask me if was a Tea Party supporter a few days ago. "Nope." says I.

He starts to give me the pitch about how they want to take this country back to the way the "..Founders intended it to be.." and "...keep it there, no matter what." Adding that ".....that's how it's gonna be and no way else."

I looked him in the eyes and said, "Precisely why I don't like them.".

He got quiet, but his face turned red and his hands were shaking.

One day these fools will explode, and the whole world will be watching.

Regards,
Dave

[Bigerik]

Yelling is what the talking heads do on TV. Citizens mimic that behaviour.

Speaking of media and politics, how noisy is politics in Canada? It hit me last night that in my years of listening to Canadian radio stations I don't recall hearing a campaign ad.

MUCH quieter, tho it does get annoying at election time. Last time I checked, the maximum contribution to a political party was $1100. Corporations and unions are NOT allowed to give money. That cuts the noise down a lot. The federal government will actually give money to the parties of a certain size to make sure they don't get drowned out by bigger spending parties.

On top of that, Rush didn't last too long up here. Lots of complaints and he got yanked. We do have a ton of talk radio, but it is not as high strung as the US kind. Plus, it is pretty equally split between left and right.

[BlueStreak]

MUCH quieter, tho it does get annoying at election time. Last time I checked, the maximum contribution to a political party was $1100. Corporations and unions are NOT allowed to give money. That cuts the noise down a lot. The federal government will actually give money to the parties of a certain size to make sure they don't get drowned out by bigger spending parties.

On top of that, Rush didn't last too long up here. Lots of complaints and he got yanked. We do have a ton of talk radio, but it is not as high strung as the US kind. Plus, it is pretty equally split between left and right.

Stop it.;)

Regards,
Dave

[piece-itpete]

Wow Barney that stinks.

I got this the opposite way from my father-in-law. He would go on.. and on... and on.... about how Bush/Cheney/Romney/McCain/Boehner etc want to screw the country, slowly getting more and more worked up until he was practically shouting.

At the end, when he wasn't doing too well I just started agreeing with him.

Now he's gone, but I still get it a little from his wife and my sister in law. Nothing like the old man though.

Pete

[Oerets]

I'm afraid trying to talk to the them will do no good. They just don't see a problem other then, my not agreeing with them. I get called or cornered at family gatherings and get the "I've been wanting to get a Liberals view on this!" When all they want to do is not discuss an issue but just argue. Family gathering are not fun anymore once it goes to that place.

Tried in the past to address this with one sister who I thought would be understanding. She just gave me a look of Death, meaning how dare I! They are in the right and I need to get with the program sorta thing. Learned an important lesson. No talking to her and getting a sharing of thoughts quietly.




Barney

[Bigerik]

Wow Barney that stinks.

I got this the opposite way from my father-in-law. He would go on.. and on... and on.... about how Bush/Cheney/Romney/McCain/Boehner etc want to screw the country, slowly getting more and more worked up until he was practically shouting.

At the end, when he wasn't doing too well I just started agreeing with him.

Now he's gone, but I still get it a little from his wife and my sister in law. Nothing like the old man though.

Pete

Well, at least he was right. ;)

[piece-itpete]

:D

Pete

[icenine]

Pete I think you are basically a moderate with dash of Cold Warrior liberalism/idealism...you love stirring the pot too lol;)

[BlueStreak]

The only one in my family that's been a real issue is my sister, Kris and her Teabagger husband. They still email everyone a bunch of crap, same old shyte about Obama and his sinister plots............that never seem to materialize.

I'm sensing something, though.

I think some of the rightwinger people in my life are beginning to realize they have been led on with a bunch of silly crap. Not necessarily core belief stuff. But, what was once accepted as fact, gleaned from the likes of Beck, Hannity, et al,........not so much these days.

Regards,
Dave

[bobabode]

Yesterday my 86 year old Mother called asking to be taken to the Doctor. Seems the Oxygen caused a server nose bleed.

Well all most as soon as I show up it starts. "How could you vote for that Muslim?" Now she has a real hard time hearing and understanding conversations along with the TV.

But the arguments she was using were all ones straight out of the mouths of my sisters and their husbands. The same vile lies I have been hearing for the last six months, no five years!

Like He grew up in Kenya is a So************************t going to take away her SS and Medicare. Played golf after the Hurricane was the newest one. Seems she just was told the Obama went to Burma to play golf the day after Sandy hit NY. Or went on vacation during the attack on Mumbazzie when our people got killed! I know where this one comes from, my sister just used that one two or three days before. Seems she got Benghazi somehow confused. Correcting her didn't take it now seems.

Now I know because if her hearing she has gotten stories confused but she was so worked up I refused to correct the mistake.

The problem as I see it is some of my family the Tea Party ones. Who are very vocal talk there crap in front of my Mother. Get her blood up just like theirs. Then when I show up force conversations not really intended or wanting.

Will do no good to say anything to them about it because they think I'm the one needing to see the light. But I just see a 86 year old woman whose blood pressure is unduly high, when not needing to be. Best to leave Politics out of her daily worries.

Tried talking to one of my brothers and he just said to refuse to bite when provoked. I try and try but it is hard not to correct someone when needed.

Why does everyone have to yell when they talk politics any more??? Or is it just my family?



Barney

Hi Barney, Talk to her doctor about the risk of ramping up your Mom's blood pressure and lower the boom on your siblings. This isn't acceptable and could very well bring on a stroke or worse. NIH.gov (National Institutes of Health) is a good place to find some info to bolster the argument that this isn't healthy behaviour on the part of your siblings.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, my friend.

Regards, Bob

[bhunter]

Tried talking to one of my brothers and he just said to refuse to bite when provoked. I try and try but it is hard not to correct someone when needed.

Why does everyone have to yell when they talk politics any more??? Or is it just my family?

Barney

I refrain from responding to religious fundamentalists that insist on pushing their ideas. I've tried arguing, but that never seems to work and just makes dinner uncomfortable. Of course, if I've had a bit too much booze, I'm likely to respond. I realize it takes substantial self-control, but the outcome during family events is much better if one refrains.

[BlueStreak]

The last time I visited my oldest brother, he had rented the movie "John Adams".

Then he proceeded to complain and make stupid comments through the entire movie. "This is bu****it, Adams would have thrown those Brit soldiers to the wolves." At one point his granddaughter, who was about six at the time, asked "Who is that man?" and pointed to Thomas Jefferson on the screen; "That's Jefferson. He was alright, but we don't like him anyways, 'cuz he f**ked ni**ers. We don't like people who have sex with monkeys."---to a SIX YEAR OLD.

We refrained from arguing in front of the kids, (Which I think was a mistake.), but after their parents took them home and it was just us old farts, it was on.

Not just about the racist remarks, but about his absolutely lousy interpratation of events as well.
The whole point behind Adams effectively defending the British soldiers in court was about integrity, reasoning out what is just, rather than acting purely on emotion.

But, some people you just can't argue with. In their minds, they are NEVER wrong. And, when you prove they are..........................look out!

Regards,
Dave

[Bigerik]

The last time I visited my oldest brother, he had rented the movie "John Adams".

Then he proceeded to complain and make stupid comments through the entire movie. "This is bu****it, Adams would have thrown those Brit soldiers to the wolves." At one point his granddaughter, who was about six at the time, asked "Who is that man?" and pointed to Thomas Jefferson on the screen; "That's Jefferson. He was alright, but we don't like him anyways, 'cuz he f**ked ni**ers. We don't like people who have sex with monkeys."---to a SIX YEAR OLD.

We refrained from arguing in front of the kids, (Which I think was a mistake.), but after their parents took them home and it was just us old farts, it was on.

Not just about the racist remarks, but about his absolutely lousy interpratation of events as well.
The whole point behind Adams effectively defending the British soldiers in court was about integrity, reasoning out what is just, rather than acting purely on emotion.

But, some people you just can't argue with. In their minds, they are NEVER wrong. And, when you prove they are..........................look out!

Regards,
Dave

You sure you two are related?

[BlueStreak]

You sure you two are related?

Oh, yes. Separated by 19 years. He's always been a bigoted blowhard. That's why all of his relationships fail. How his first wife put up with him for seventeen years, I'll never know. The second one only lasted two. So far there hasn't been a third. They get a sniff of what comes out of his mouth.....GONE.

If Pop had been there to hear that, it would have gotten ugly real quick. He probably wouldn't have said it.

Regards,
Dave

[BlueStreak]

""True Patriot"----Someone who loves America more than he loves the people who reside therein."

---Mike Lofgren, from "The Party is Over...."

[Oerets]

Went by today and visited my Mother. Just so happened one of my Sisters was there also. They two teamed me about Petraeus at first. All Obama's fault it seems. How I never could understand. Then it went on to Papa John adding fourteen cents to his pizzas for healthcare. I told them I'd buy PJ's Pizzas and gladly pay a quarter more if he gave his employees healthcare. The both got a far away look in there eyes and one said he probably just make everyone part time! The other agreed, thinking that it was OK I guess.


I'm playing it cool with my Mother, keeping it mellow if possible. Changing subject and hope as time goes on they will just stop talking about it with me. I have no real control over what happens when I'm not there. If I make a big deal out of this it will be turned back on me as the bad guy. I must face it my Mother likes talking with the family members about Politics and I'm on the other side of their views.





Barney

[BlueStreak]

Went by today and visited my Mother. Just so happened one of my Sisters was there also. They two teamed me about Petraeus at first. All Obama's fault it seems. How I never could understand. Then it went on to Papa John adding fourteen cents to his pizzas for healthcare. I told them I'd buy PJ's Pizzas and gladly pay a quarter more if he gave his employees healthcare. The both got a far away look in there eyes and one said he probably just make everyone part time! The other agreed, thinking that it was OK I guess.


I'm playing it cool with my Mother, keeping it mellow if possible. Changing subject and hope as time goes on they will just stop talking about it with me. I have no real control over what happens when I'm not there. If I make a big deal out of this it will be turned back on me as the bad guy. I must face it my Mother likes talking with the family members about Politics and I'm on the other side of there views.

Barney

Not to make any assumtions about your family in particular, but I see something in this post and felt compelled to point it out.

You said you would be willing to go beyond paying and extra 14 cents, to say you'd pay an extra 25 cents, if it meant the pizza employees would get healthcare coverage.
(I share that sentiment, BTW.)

The response from your family members was that the employer should "...make everybody part-time." and avoid providing insurance for employees altogether rather than charge a bit more for their coverage.

You see, our way, it might cost us 14 cents more, maybe once a month or so, but more of our fellow citizens would have coverage of their own. Which is better for all of us. No more jamming the ERs with uninsured patients driving up the cost of medical care. I don't know about you, but what boils down to pocket change every year, is a loss I'd never even notice. I'd bet it's a loss that NOBODY who orders delivery pizza is going to have to sell the farm over.

However, some of us would rather maintain the status quo, or screw those employees out of full time pay and benefits just to avoid paying out less than--------$2 per year.

Think about that, Barney. And to think that I once believed we were a nation of generous people.

Regards,
Dave

[BlueStreak]

My sister was at it again tonight over the whole contraceptive coverage being an "...attack on Christianity" nonsense again. It seems a contraceptive mandate in a womans insurance coverage is, at once, a sinister plot to "kill more babies", "destroy Christianity" and "ruin America" by leaving Christian employers "no choice" but to shut down and lay everyone off......................

Regards,
Dave

[BlueStreak]

I'm guessing we'll just have to try and ignore it, Barney.

Regards,
Dave

[bobabode]

Dave, Great point. Too bad a lot of our fellow countrymen & women have drunken that bitter & nasty tea served up by the likes of Faux and Rush Limpballs. I've run into it all over the place even here in California. I just hope that after people cool down from this election, they'll come to their senses. Too many hard feelings running around from this stupid shit.

When they see that none of those idiotic stories about the end of the world coming if we get four more years of Obama I think they'll realize how foolish they've been.
But...
I've been hearing some disturbing shit about this supposed 'Grand Bargain' being considered by Obama's team. I hope it isn't true cause the last thing we should do is to squander this hard won victory by caving in to these sumbitches like Cantor, Boner and Ryan. Personally? I don't think there is a fiscal cliff looming anymore. Let the Bush tax cuts die and then harvest the plutocrats. I don't subscribe to taking it back to the Clinton era upper income tax rates. The free ride is over. Let's bring back the Eisenhower tax rates! (and negotiate from there) There are rumblings that the MIC is still off limits and the safety net is on the table again. I hope it's just jockying around but I heard a well respected black professor and Tavis Smiley call the president a Rockefeller Republican in black face today!:eek: I'll start a thread about it...

[icenine]

The other thing about making everyone part time employees as a result of Obamacare to avoid providing employee health care benefits.....total BS. Companies have been doing that for years now and it is only getting worse. At least now the cheaper insurance exchanges will cover more.

If businesses really start pulling that shit against workers the ultimate effect will be single payer. We may get universal coverage as a result of the business world disenfranchising their workers from health insurance mandates.

[BlueStreak]

The other thing about making everyone part time employees as a result of Obamacare to avoid providing employee health care benefits.....total BS. Companies have been doing that for years now and it is only getting worse. At least now the cheaper insurance exchanges will cover more.

If businesses really start pulling that shit against workers the ultimate effect will be single payer. We may get universal coverage as a result of the business world disenfranchising their workers from health insurance mandates.

The underlying point you make here is a salient one. If this country ever does go to single payer, it very well be the free market itself that forces it. Employers deliberately divesting themselves of the healthcare burden coupled with wage levels insufficient for our workers to pay for their own will make single-payer evermore attractive to voters.

Unless, of course, they destroy Democracy first. Or, at least, sufficiently demonize the liberal political body likely to seek implementation of such a program so that the machinery to do so is no longer in place.

Scary stuff. But, it really isn't much of a stretch to see it.

Regards,
Dave

[BlueStreak]

I am reminded of something I heard Gingrich (I think it was Gingrich.) say during the GOP debates.

"If we allow Obamacare to be fully implemented, the people might decide they like it. Then we'll never be rid of it."

God forbid "the people" should ever have something they "like"!

And, I'm supposed to vote for people who think like this?

Regards,
Dave

[wgrr]

What I find disturbing in all of this ginned up pearl clutching on the right is the can tell you what they think is bad about the US, but they have no answers when it comes to solving the problems we face. Ignorance is bliss so they will draw a blank when it comes to solutions other than the old worn out talking points of the right that has been taken over by the tbaggers who are clueless. We just went through four years of a do nothing Congress. The people spoke and we want change.

The Republicans in the house feel like everything will work out fine if Obama let's them implement an agenda that has proven to be a failure for 30 years. If Obama is smart he will address the nation on a regular basis and point out who is responsible for the gridlock. That would go along way to shaming the Grover Norquist robots into action.

It is bully pulpit time for Obama.

[d-ray657]

One thing that Obama has acknowledged is his need to take his case to the public - on the road.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Oerets]

You said you would be willing to go beyond paying and extra 14 cents, to say you'd pay an extra 25 cents, if it meant the pizza employees would get healthcare coverage.
(I share that sentiment, BTW.)


Regards,
Dave


I think most of the United States would be behind a company that gets out in front of this issue. By clearly stating the additional cost was to cover the employee health coverage as a "good thing". Why is it now perceived that lowest costs are always better. Is it a race to the bottom? Or should we not be trying for the top?

I think most people will understand when a company is going to offer Healthcare additional cost will be inured. Even if a pizza was to be $2.00 more but the employee now has coverage would not most get use to it and move on. Plus then the customer without employer supplied healthcare might begin to wounder why.


BTW here is what the Papa had to say.......


http://wfpl.org/post/john-schnatter-papa-johns-franchisees-may-cut-hours-because-obamacare






Barney

[Boreas]

The Papa John's thing is BS. I posted this link in another thread but it seems more appropriate here.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/calebmelby/2012/11/12/breaking-down-centi-millionaire-papa-john-schnatters-obamacare-math/

John

[bobabode]

What I find disturbing in all of this ginned up pearl clutching on the right is the can tell you what they think is bad about the US, but they have no answers when it comes to solving the problems we face. Ignorance is bliss so they will draw a blank when it comes to solutions other than the old worn out talking points of the right that has been taken over by the tbaggers who are clueless. We just went through four years of a do nothing Congress. The people spoke and we want change.

The Republicans in the house feel like everything will work out fine if Obama let's them implement an agenda that has proven to be a failure for 30 years. If Obama is smart he will address the nation on a regular basis and point out who is responsible for the gridlock. That would go along way to shaming the Grover Norquist robots into action.

It is bully pulpit time for Obama.

Fireside chats, yes!:) It worked for Roosevelt. Nothing would warm them up better than holding these righty congress critter's feet to the fire, weekly.:D

[Rex E.]

Of all the chain store delivery pizza places Papa John's is my least favorite and always has been. This being said, I'd be willing to buy a pie from them once a month at a $.16 increase over the current price if it meant all the employees would get healthcare.

[Wasillaguy]

Of all the chain store delivery pizza places Papa John's is my least favorite and always has been. This being said, I'd be willing to buy a pie from them once a month at a $.16 increase over the current price if it meant all the employees would get healthcare.

So make it happen. Form a co-op of the thousands of like-minded people and present an unsolicited bid to Papa John for X number of pizzas with stipulation that they provide insurance to their employees. They're a greedy corporation. If you have a big enough carrot, they'll bite.