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finnbow
12-08-2012, 06:55 AM
According to a June Gallup report, most Republicans (58 percent) believed that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. Most Democrats and independents did not agree.

This anti-intellectualism is antediluvian. No wonder a 2009 Pew Research Center report found that only 6 percent of scientists identified as Republican and 9 percent identified as conservative.

Furthermore, a 2005 study found that just 11 percent of college professors identified as Republican and 15 percent identified as conservative. Some argue that this simply represents a liberal bias in academia. But just as strong a case could be made that people who absorb facts easily don’t suffer fools gladly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/08/opinion/blow-dinosaurs-and-denial.html

I think it's this sort institutional ignorance that drove me from the GOP. Though I'm not really a fan of the Dem's and a number of their policy positions, I'm a big fan of reason.

bobabode
12-08-2012, 02:50 PM
I guess education will make more people Democrats or at least Independents. Maybe it was LBJ's fault that the Republican's got stupid? Them hillbillies think Occam's razor is something to shave their backsides with...:eek::D

CarlV
12-08-2012, 03:29 PM
Maybe that is the reason why one of the GOP's favorite ideas is of cutting the financing of public education.
A great Moyers observation this week that the GOP brags about not raising taxes for 22 years at the same time they complain about the deficits.
That observation about the Norquist pledge is the execution of an plan by a 12 year old, Grover Norquist, was another good one. :D


Carl

piece-itpete
12-10-2012, 08:25 AM
I know enough to know I know nothing.

Pete

Boreas
12-10-2012, 09:14 AM
I know enough to know I know nothing.

Pete

I agree!

John ;)

icenine
12-10-2012, 09:15 AM
I know enough to know I know nothing.

Pete

Oh you have been reading Plato...so don't act like you are a bumkin Pete:p;)

icenine
12-10-2012, 09:19 AM
maybe the internet is a highway for both real knowledge and and fantasy and both will be mixed together...think about it

If aliens found all these files 20,000 years from now how would they determine the "truth" (e.g. World War II for example) from one of say Mezz's posts? In other words how will they know the difference between what really happened and the musings from the blogosphere?

scary

merrylander
12-10-2012, 09:40 AM
I know enough to know I know nothing.

Pete

And I know the rest.:rolleyes:

whell
12-10-2012, 10:19 AM
[I]According to a June Gallup report, most Republicans (58 percent) believed that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years.

I really believe that this is the case. Over 10000 years ago, men used to have balls. The rise of liberalism changed that. :p

d-ray657
12-10-2012, 10:19 AM
From Crosby Stills & Nash:

"Anything you want to know, just ask me
I'm the world's most opinionated man
I'll give you an answer if I can
Catch one passing through
That feels right for you

Anything you want to know, just ask me
It's worth every cent it costs
And you know it's free for you
Special deal

Anything you want to know
It should be perfectly clear
You see just beneath the surface of the mud
There's more mud here, surprise

Is there anything you want to know
On any subject at all?
I've go time for one more question here
Before I fall"

I've met more than one person that started those lyrics passing through my mind. :eek:

And that was before I read the previous post. :rolleyes:

Regards,

D-Ray

piece-itpete
12-10-2012, 10:36 AM
Hey - if I know I know knothing, then I know something. Therefore I cnouldn't know knothing.

Unless I only think I know knothing! In which cnase I really know knothing and am just knidding myself.

Pete

whell
12-10-2012, 10:47 AM
From Crosby Stills & Nash:

"Anything you want to know, just ask me
I'm the world's most opinionated man
I'll give you an answer if I can
Catch one passing through
That feels right for you

Anything you want to know, just ask me
It's worth every cent it costs
And you know it's free for you
Special deal

Anything you want to know
It should be perfectly clear
You see just beneath the surface of the mud
There's more mud here, surprise

Is there anything you want to know
On any subject at all?
I've go time for one more question here
Before I fall"

I've met more than one person that started those lyrics passing through my mind. :eek:

And that was before I read the previous post. :rolleyes:

Regards,

D-Ray

Geez, counselor. Can't take a little joke, eh?

Besides, I wonder how stoned Crosby was when he sang that.... :cool:

d-ray657
12-10-2012, 11:01 AM
Geez, counselor. Can't take a little joke, eh?

Besides, I wonder how stoned Crosby was when he sang that.... :cool:

Who can't take a joke? :p

Besides, if the foo sh*ts . . . :D

Regards,

D-Ray

whell
12-10-2012, 11:12 AM
Who can't take a joke? :p

Besides, if the foo sh*ts . . . :D

Regards,

D-Ray

If the foo shits, share it.

finnbow
12-10-2012, 11:48 AM
I really believe that this is the case. Over 10000 years ago, men used to have balls. The rise of liberalism changed that. :p

Speak for yourself. ;)

CarlV
12-10-2012, 02:35 PM
I really believe that this is the case. Over 10000 years ago, men used to have balls. The rise of liberalism changed that. :p

If so, what is Boner's excuse for not being able to control his party members? :p


Carl

BlueStreak
12-10-2012, 08:31 PM
I really believe that this is the case. Over 10000 years ago, men used to have balls. The rise of liberalism changed that. :p

So, dump it all and go live in a cave, no electricity, running water or heat-A/C, hunting with a pointy stick to prove to us just how much of a rugged individual you are.

I give it a week at the most.:rolleyes:

This sort of he-man hullabaloo is what really drives me nuts.

Regards,
Dave

wgrr
12-11-2012, 07:12 AM
I guess education will make more people Democrats or at least Independents. Maybe it was LBJ's fault that the Republican's got stupid? Them hillbillies think Occam's razor is something to shave their backsides with...:eek::D

Hey..Hey, I am a hillbilly and I know Occam's Razor is used to trim excessive pubic hair not your backside...sheesh.

bobabode
05-09-2013, 04:38 PM
Hey..Hey, I am a hillbilly and I know Occam's Razor is used to trim excessive pubic hair not your backside...sheesh.

Try bikini wax for that hair. One slip of Occams razor and you'll be singin' soprano in the vatican choir.:rolleyes::D

HatchetJack
05-09-2013, 05:20 PM
So in other words there are two camps, one in which we study the Bible,
have faith in mankind and trust in the oldest history book or just
SHIT HAPPENS?

finnbow
05-09-2013, 05:26 PM
So in other words there are two camps, one in which we study the Bible,
have faith in mankind and trust in the oldest history book or just
SHIT HAPPENS?

Do you honestly believe that the Bible is a history book? If so, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

ebacon
05-09-2013, 05:30 PM
The other day I made friends online with a Roman Catholic Priest. He is also an amateur astronomer. What interested me in him was that he made a post about the Vatican Astronomer. I thought the Vatican whu?

Anyhow he summed up the difference between faith and science rather succinctly. In an even smaller nutshell it goes like this -- faith is what you have to trust when you don't know all the facts. The Vatican has an astronomer to help collect more facts.

This stuff isn't that hard when there is a good teacher to explain it. Anyhow here is an article on the Vatican Astronomer.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/international/creationism-dismissed-as-a-kind-of-paganism-by-vatican-s-astronomer-1-1116595

Bigerik
05-09-2013, 05:31 PM
Funny thing is, the bible doesn't say the world is 10,000 years old.

barbara
05-09-2013, 05:37 PM
So in other words there are two camps, one in which we study the Bible,
have faith in mankind and trust in the oldest history book or just
SHIT HAPPENS?

Having faith in mankind has very little to do with reading the bible.

ebacon
05-09-2013, 05:38 PM
Do you honestly believe that the Bible is a history book? If so, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

While I am not an authority on the subject, my understanding is that it is not a history book. Instead it is a very old book that tries to explain how the world works as best the authors understood. As such the book is rich in period stories and needs someone that's in the know to interpret it properly.

Similar situations exist even in day-to-day translations of foreign languages. I think the Japanese language refers to man's spirit as steam from hot rice. Obviously translated stories about hot rice would not be about food.

Wasn't the bru-haha over Martin Luther about him getting the Bible out to the masses and there being concern that they would misinterpret and abuse it?

finnbow
05-09-2013, 05:45 PM
Wasn't the bru-haha over Martin Luther about him getting the Bible out to the masses and there being concern that they would misinterpret and abuse it?

Pretty prescient fellow. I'll admit a degree of distrust and disdain for anyone who wears their religion on their sleeve.

BlueStreak
05-09-2013, 05:46 PM
I really believe that this is the case. Over 10000 years ago, men used to have balls. The rise of liberalism changed that. :p

Yes, we all know the human condition was far more conservative and therefore more civilized in the Mesolithic period.........................

The first Republican;

1768
Zod.

Who died a gruesome death at 23 because he killed a Mastodon and refused to share the meat with the rest of the tribe. His last words were; "Ig chumbaba ud gick-gick GARRRRRRR!" Which, roughly translated, means; "I'll let it rot before I'll let you 47%ers get a free meal!"

They ate the Mastodon. Then they ate Zod.

Dave

BlueStreak
05-09-2013, 05:58 PM
So in other words there are two camps, one in which we study the Bible,
have faith in mankind and trust in the oldest history book or just
SHIT HAPPENS?

I don't recall "SHIT HAPPENS" being a Bible passage. But, I have heard many a Christain claim, for lack of an explanation to a given situation, "The Lord works in mysterious ways." Which I've always taken as the nicey-nice Bible-thumper way of saying; "I dunno. Shit Happens."

P.S.

I have faith in mankind too. I have faith that greedy, avaricious people will try to screw me anytime I give them the chance.

So, tell me. Are all those guns you keep handy solid evidence of this great faith you have in humanity?:rolleyes:

Dave

BlueStreak
05-09-2013, 06:03 PM
While I am not an authority on the subject, my understanding is that it is not a history book. Instead it is a very old book that tries to explain how the world works as best the authors understood. As such the book is rich in period stories and needs someone that's in the know to interpret it properly.

Which, to my mind, would require someone that was there. Someone that was there would also be long dead.

Similar situations exist even in day-to-day translations of foreign languages. I think the Japanese language refers to man's spirit as steam from hot rice. Obviously translated stories about hot rice would not be about food.

Would a Mexican translation describe a mans spirit as farts from digesting beans?

Wasn't the bru-haha over Martin Luther about him getting the Bible out to the masses and there being concern that they would misinterpret and abuse it?

Sort of like TeaBaggers reading the U.S. Constitution?:rolleyes:

Dave

bobabode
05-09-2013, 06:15 PM
Sort of like TeaBaggers reading the U.S. Constitution?:rolleyes:

Dave


;)Well put! They parse everything else, why not the second amendment?:rolleyes:

ebacon
05-09-2013, 06:22 PM
Interpreting does not require being there when the document was written. What it does require is reading supporting documents that were written at the same time. Most people don't have the patience for that so they take what they can get. I was like that before law school.

There isn't anything mystical about the process. Just a lot of coffee. :D

Rex E.
05-09-2013, 06:49 PM
All one has to do is look at the canons and you'll know the Bible has little to do with truth. Why would some men be choosing what was allowed in it if it was truly the word of God. Should not all the books be included?

Rather than study anti-Semites maybe you should spend some time looking into the Gnostics. You know...the ones left out at the canon's.....

mpholland
05-09-2013, 10:01 PM
Interpreting does not require being there when the document was written. What it does require is reading supporting documents that were written at the same time. Most people don't have the patience for that so they take what they can get. I was like that before law school.

There isn't anything mystical about the process. Just a lot of coffee. :D

Good thing that theory works with the Bible, because it doesn't seem to work worth a damn for the 2nd amendment. :)

Marc

merrylander
05-10-2013, 07:30 AM
I would imagine that to derive the meaning of any written word one would need at least a command of that specific language. Unfortunately for most Americans the Constitution is written in English, as is the King James Bible. The unfortunate part is that the translators of that book were not all conversant with Greek nor Aramic.

piece-itpete
05-10-2013, 08:02 AM
Christians do NOT have 'faith' in humanity by definition we are all fallen. And judging by the secular history I have read said faith in humanity is soley misplaced.

Do you honestly believe that the Bible is a history book? If so, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Have you read the document in question? It is largely a history. Documents from antiquity - say the Roman Empire? are given some credence with much less backup.

Yes, we all know the human condition was far more conservative and therefore more civilized in the Mesolithic period.........................

The first Republican;

1768
Zod.

Who died a gruesome death at 23 because he killed a Mastodon and refused to share the meat with the rest of the tribe. His last words were; "Ig chumbaba ud gick-gick GARRRRRRR!" Which, roughly translated, means; "I'll let it rot before I'll let you 47%ers get a free meal!"

They ate the Mastodon. Then they ate Zod.

Dave

LMAO!! Nothing like smoked Republicans? :D

Pete

merrylander
05-10-2013, 03:17 PM
Christians do NOT have 'faith' in humanity by definition we are all fallen. And judging by the secular history I have read said faith in humanity is soley misplaced.
Pete

That is the Church's opinion, not necessarily a fact. If what Jesus taught is true, that God is our loving Father then it can't be true. As a loving father I would never consider laying such a guilt trip on our son. You give your children unconditional love, they may dissapoint you now and then but you don't stop loving them.

piece-itpete
05-10-2013, 03:21 PM
I thought Jesus was very clear. If we're not fallen, why do we need a saviour? And if you think about God allowed His own son to be beaten and killed.

Pete

bobabode
05-10-2013, 03:39 PM
I heard he roll the stone and gave him a second shot...;) Dang Methodists must be confused.:rolleyes: Maybe we shouldn't visit the sins of the father on the kids?

merrylander
05-11-2013, 06:50 AM
If the father begets a child while he has an STD for sure the sins of the father will be visited upon the child. I cannot accept a Religion that would insist than our son be punished for my sins. I answer for my own mistakes myself, period. These mediaeval concepts were why I left the Church.

We no longer execute people for stealing a loaf of bread, civilization has moved forward no matter how begrudgingly, too bad the Church is cast in stone.

Rex E.
05-11-2013, 11:08 AM
I thought Jesus was very clear. If we're not fallen, why do we need a saviour? And if you think about God allowed His own son to be beaten and killed.

Pete

And if you know of Biblical history then how could you argue with the Jews as God said when the savior comes "the lamb shall lie with the lion and the swords will be beat into plowshares"

So, with the word of the lord right there, how many wars and how many deaths have come in the name of the son and christianity.

This is the issue today, you can't just take the parts of things you like, you gotta take the whole thing.......

;)

merrylander
05-11-2013, 01:28 PM
An aside, have you ever noticed that in every depiction (paint, statuary, etc.) of Adam and Eve they both have navels? Why?

Oh and in keeping with this thread read Matthew 22:36-40

Rex E.
05-11-2013, 01:37 PM
An aside, have you ever noticed that in every depiction (paint, statuary, etc.) of Adam and Eve they both have navels? Why?

Oh and in keeping with this thread read Matthew 22:36-40

a small aside myself

That is less shocking to me as all the incest that was going on as there was a ton of "begetting" but only one female mentioned for a very very long time.

piece-itpete
05-13-2013, 01:22 PM
Rob, he did it himself, he didn't tell us to do it.

Yes he said swords into plowshares and I believe in taking the entirety. He also said

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 “You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

........

34 “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.

...."

Again, the world is fallen.

Pete

merrylander
05-13-2013, 01:48 PM
There is still no agreement one what he was saying at that moment. Some felt that He was predicting the futiure. Other scholars feel that he was simply telling his desciples what to expect as they set about spreading His word throughout Israel

A lot of problems with translations, frex in Corintians I Chapter 13 St. Paul used the Greek 'agape' yet the various Bibles translated that as 'charity' probably because they thought true charity is a special form of love (which is what agape means).

What needs to be remembered is that people interpret or define other people through the lens of their own personality - you might call it projection. Objectivity is a near impossible human achievment.

piece-itpete
05-13-2013, 01:55 PM
I agree Rob.

But surely (:)) some things are true and others are not. When he said, 'I am the way the truth and the life, no man shall come to the father except through me', that seems pretty clear.

Agreed though there's much to be discussed and understood. Or misunderstood. Every time wisdom is mentioned I dispair a little :o

Perhaps the plowshares comment is regarding the second coming? How could he believe that even when he predicted his own apostles and diciples being beaten and hated?

Pete

Bigerik
05-13-2013, 02:34 PM
Matthew 5:9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Romans 14:17-19 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brothers, rejoice. Aim for restoration, comfort one another,agree with one another, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you.

Luke 6:27 “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you.

Romans 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.

BlueStreak
05-13-2013, 02:39 PM
Rob, he did it himself, he didn't tell us to do it.

Yes he said swords into plowshares and I believe in taking the entirety. He also said

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 “You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

........

34 “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.

...."

Again, the world is fallen.

Pete

Christianity is so violent. No wonder the Musilims hate us.:p

Dave

BlueStreak
05-13-2013, 02:45 PM
I agree Rob.

But surely (:)) some things are true and others are not. When he said, 'I am the way the truth and the life, no man shall come to the father except through me', that seems pretty clear.

Oh, of course. Somethings are true and some are not. And depending on what you are determined to prove, you get to pick and choose which one are "true" and which are not. I've always thought that very convenient.

Perhaps the plowshares comment is regarding the second coming? How could he believe that even when he predicted his own apostles and diciples being beaten and hated?

Pete

Kind of the way Glenn Beck predicted he would be called a jackass and a lunatic? (Because he is a jackass and a lunatic.;))

piece-itpete
05-13-2013, 02:56 PM
LOL!

It depends on what your definition of is is :p

Pete

merrylander
05-13-2013, 03:07 PM
Dr. Eben Alexander in "Proof of Heaven" defined God as "Unconditional Love" - works for me. In the book I just ordered "Love Power and Justice" Tillich says that Power without Love can never be Just.