What is welfare?

[JCricket]

Okay folks, my first post in the pc world here. Hopefully not my last. Kevlar undies and asbestos three piece suit is on.

What is welfare? I here people talk about it and kind of shake my head. It seems, that many people have a stereotypical opinion of what welfare is. So, I thought we should , for the sake of PC, define what it is. Maybe even try and catagorize what the receipients are.

I was on welfare as a child(my parents were strong catholics, 8 kids, and occasionaly unemployed). I have been unemployed a few times myself, I have never even so much as taken out a single unemployment check.
Some years ago, I had kids, twin boys. Both turned out to be medically complex, special needs kids. This really changed my opinions. I have another exposure to use as reference. So that is it for my first post. I'll add my opinons as this thread grows(hopefully).

BTW - I am a lousy typer and half blind, so pardon my spelloing and feel free to poke fun at it.
Cricket

[d-ray657]

Don't worry about the typing. It's much more fun to poke fun at opinions than typing.

I beleive that most people want to work, but work is not always available. Fery few in the workforce had "golden parachutes." Those are reserved for folks who don't need them.

While some who are on welfare have for some reason of another a desire not to work, for others there are barriers the make getting a job seem like a bad proposition. One can lose access to health care by moving into an entry level job that does not offer benefits. Of course some of that concern can be alleviated by moving forward with health care reform. Similarly, a single parent can find the expenses of child care obliterate the benefits of receiving a paycheck.

I wouldn't want to be part of a society that doesn't provide for its least fortunate, but I do beleive that there should be incentives for all who are, or could become capable, to leave the welfare rolls to become a member of the workforce. It's that transition that seems to need the most work.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Grumpy]

First welcome aboard. Glad to have you here.


To me Welfare is to help those who cannot help themselves and I largely support it.

At the same time Welfare has to be the most abused system in our fine country. It should be more strictly regulated to keep those that can help themselves but will not, out !

[JCricket]

First welcome aboard. Glad to have you here.


To me Welfare is to help those who cannot help themselves and I largely support it.

At the same time Welfare has to be the most abused system in our fine country. It should be more strictly regulated to keep those that can help themselves but will not, out !

This is one of the reasons I posted the thread. I'll explain in a bit.
FIrst, lets come up witha few examples of who is on welfare:
1. A twenty year old healty, strong, intelligent guy that would rather fish and drink beer all day.
2. A single mom who has babies so that she may stay in the "system"
3. A family with children that has lost their sole income and needs to feed their kids.
4. An intelligent, but disabled individual.
5. The mentally disabled(due to cognition or psychological)
6. The bed riden individual tha is alive and relies entirely on the support of others to survive.

I may have missed a few but you get the idea. The first two examples(or similar such examples) are what I think most people think of when they think welfare. I don't think anyone has ever actually composed data to support where the percentages of people in the examples fall, so the rest of this is highly subjective.

Here is what I know - emphasis on know. I am part of the system with my kiddos and my disabilities too. I do not get welfare in the sense of subsided housing or food stamps. We do get support with the medical stuff. Trying to be part of this system is the most difficult thing I have ever done - baring nothing. There are more rules, more regulations, more hoops to jump through than you could ever imagine. You have to be registered with one agency to get registered with another to get approved by someone, to get someone else to manage your accounts so that you can be vistied by a nurse to approve that you belong on the first agency so taht you can see a doctor and fight the insurance companies to file a claim to get the fourth agency to aprove what the third one did and thus get some asprin.

IT is the biggest PITA I have ever dealt with. Is the whole welfare system this way?? I tell you, if there was anyway to be somewhere else I would be. It litteraly is a full time job just managing the paperwork and red tape.

This leads me to the opinion, that no one in their right mind would be on welfare if they didn't have to be.
Here is another thing I know - many individuals who need it are completely incapbale of getting it because of the beuracratic red tape. Specifically examples 4,5,and 6 suffer the most.

Granted, no one likes abuse and there is some, but regulation is not the answer. I think the other side ofthe coins better/ Severe punishment for those that abuse.

[merrylander]

The question is would policing the system cost more than it would save. Years and years ago in Canada there was a means test for the old age pension. If after paying their share all those years a couple had nowt left for retirement they could not qualify if they owned their own home. Many parents deeded their house over to their children. Alas not all children 'honour thy father and mother'. So the government removed the means test and everyone can get the pension. However if you earn above a certain limit they will gradually take it back in taxes.

So what will it cost to remove the first two cases from the system and will the cost exceed the savings? Sure it is immoral for these two to take the money but we have never been very successful in legislating morality.

[JCricket]

The question is would policing the system cost more than it would save. Years and years ago in Canada there was a means test for the old age pension. If after paying their share all those years a couple had nowt left for retirement they could not qualify if they owned their own home. Many parents deeded their house over to their children. Alas not all children 'honour thy father and mother'. So the government removed the means test and everyone can get the pension. However if you earn above a certain limit they will gradually take it back in taxes.

So what will it cost to remove the first two cases from the system and will the cost exceed the savings? Sure it is immoral for these two to take the money but we have never been very successful in legislating morality.

Policing the system and removing the first two cases?
My OPINION, and from my observations, the governemnt spends as much money on policing as it does on actual distribution of funds to the individuals. Seriously, my kids probably realize an annual benifit(medical mostly) of about $50k. However, we have four agencies we need to report to, and two case managers per kid. Everything we do requires a piece of paper and a board to review it. Then there is the group to cut the checks and pay the providers, the froup to monitor the checks, the group to monitor the budget, the group to manage these monitors, and so on.

Second, I don't know anyone at all in either of the first two catagories. So I have to ask myself ifthey really exist? Or is this a propaganda set up to eliminate what some people regard as a detestable form of socialism?

I am not naive enough to believe there is no abuse, but I have to really question just how much.

I guess my point to my rant above, is that most people who spout off about welfare really know very little about it. And that, if more people knew about it they would even be angrier.

I kind of feel like I talked myself into a circle here with no real point.

Time to make another pot of coffee.

[d-ray657]

The question is would policing the system cost more than it would save. Years and years ago in Canada there was a means test for the old age pension. If after paying their share all those years a couple had nowt left for retirement they could not qualify if they owned their own home. Many parents deeded their house over to their children. Alas not all children 'honour thy father and mother'. So the government removed the means test and everyone can get the pension. However if you earn above a certain limit they will gradually take it back in taxes.

So what will it cost to remove the first two cases from the system and will the cost exceed the savings? Sure it is immoral for these two to take the money but we have never been very successful in legislating morality.

Daedgummit Merrylander, why do you make so much sense all of the time? I mean if someone read your posts, they would believe you actually took some time to think about these things.

Regards,

D-Ray

[merrylander]

Daedgummit Merrylander, why do you make so much sense all of the time? I mean if someone read your posts, they would believe you actually took some time to think about these things.

Regards,

D-Ray

Sorry, I did not ask for the brain I was given, if I had I would have made damn sure it came with an on-off switch.

[d-ray657]

Sorry, I did not ask for the brain I was given, if I had I would have made damn sure it came with an on-off switch.

Isn't that what the moneyed class wants - for us to turn our brains off except when they need us? I for one am glad that you keep yours powered up.

Regards,

D-Ray

[BlueStreak]

What is welfare? In the context of the times?

A catch-word full of racial and societal connotations that some pundits and politicians shamelessly use to get votes from the hatefull, perhaps?:rolleyes::D

NO, I don't see it as the government "stealing" my money and giving it to "slackards".

Now that I've gotten my preemptive strike against the "wingnuts" out of the way.................

Honestly, I can only say I agree with the general message of every posting here. And I can only add my voice to echo d-rays statement that I would not want to live in a society that didn't at least try to take care of it's least fortunate.

True, there are those that abuse it, and this fraud needs to be weeded out and stopped. But, I would not support shutting down the whole system because of my dismay at the said fraud.

Sorry to hear about your problems JCricket, no problem, Buddy. I can deal with the typing and the spelling.

Dave

[noonereal]

I beleive that most people want to work,



Absolutely. It is a matter of matches skills and interests with needs.
To think that folks on welfare are lazy, is not understanding the animal.
It's as stupid as thinking that the rich "earned it."

[merrylander]

Isn't that what the moneyed class wants - for us to turn our brains off except when they need us? I for one am glad that you keep yours powered up.

Regards,

D-Ray

The problem is that they tell me it is somewhere in the 99th percentile and believe me there are times when it would be nice to give it a rest.

[noonereal]

At the same time Welfare has to be the most abused system in our fine country. !

I doubt is is anywhere on the radar for most abused.
Look at the bail out, apples and oranges in scope of abuse.
Corporate welfare is in all it's forms takes an unparalleled place on the abuse scale.

[piece-itpete]

First welcome aboard. Glad to have you here.


To me Welfare is to help those who cannot help themselves and I largely support it.

At the same time Welfare has to be the most abused system in our fine country. It should be more strictly regulated to keep those that can help themselves but will not, out !

I wholeheartedly agree.


This leads me to the opinion, that no one in their right mind would be on welfare if they didn't have to be.



if they really exist? Or is this a propaganda set up to eliminate what some people regard as a detestable form of socialism?


Yes, they sure do exist, and in droves by my experience with acquaintances in the hood. Percentages, I have no idea.

And no, most aren't in their right mind :D

The REAL crime is SSI abuse. People teaching their kids to be stupid - I've done seen it.

Btw, nice to meet you JC :) Hope you hang around.

Sorry, I did not ask for the brain I was given, if I had I would have made damn sure it came with an on-off switch.

'Go to the light' :) 'You will vote GOP' lol.

Pete

[merrylander]

'Go to the light' :) 'You will vote GOP' lol.

Pete

Hell will freeze over first.:D