Six months and what has been done?

[bobabode]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/after-newtown-shooting-mourning-parents-enter-into-the-lonely-quiet/2013/06/08/0235a882-cd32-11e2-9f1a-1a7cdee20287_story.html?hpid=z2

Nothing has been done since Newtown. I used to think we were better than that.:(

[BlueStreak]

No. We're not.

In a thread on AK a couple weeks ago, I made the comment that "....I don't own any guns, they just aren't my thing." The response I got from foreign members was interesting. They seemed relieved to know that there was still at least one ".....sane person left in America.", as one man from England put it.

Make of that what you will.....'cuz you will anyways.

Dave

[bobabode]

No. We're not.

In a thread on AK a couple weeks ago, I made the comment that "....I don't own any guns, they just aren't my thing." The response I got from foreign members was interesting. They seemed relieved to know that there was still at least one ".....sane person left in America.", as one man from England put it.

Make of that what you will.....'cuz you will anyways.

Dave

I saw that one. He was pounced on by someone who shall remain nameless with a reference to them still having meat cleavers and knives and another from Arizona who had a choice view that out of staters were ruining his state. I stayed out of it.

[BlueStreak]

I think that's where I left it. I started the thread about a true life incident, with the intention of making it somewhat humorous. Someone asked me if I was packing. That's how I answered and the shit-storm started swirling immediately.

Imagine it, Bob. As it turned out the incident was nothing. Quickly defused and everyone went home alive. How many of those dudes responded that they would have fired or at least stuck a gun in the mans face? And, for what? Walking his dog at night? For being in the bushes? What was he doing there? I dunno. Maybe the dog had to pee and got picky about which bush was the best to pee on? And, I was supposed to shoot the guy over that?

Crazy. Just plain crazy.

Dave

[merrylander]

Sadly this nation was born in violence and it has not changed. Hollywood glorified the Wild West along with several novelists.

[MikeG22]

Honestly what is really going to be done that will somehow give everyone who puts their 5yr old on a bus that confident everything will always be bright blue skies and rainbows feeling. Let's ban all firearms and lock up all mentally deranged individuals. Still isn't going to bring back those kids.

[finnbow]

Honestly what is really going to be done that will somehow give everyone who puts their 5yr old on a bus that confident everything will always be bright blue skies and rainbows feeling. Let's ban all firearms and lock up all mentally deranged individuals. Still isn't going to bring back those kids.

No shit, Sherlock. The point of improved gun safety laws is not to bring the dead back to life, but to reduce the likelihood and severity of gun crimes in the future.

[MikeG22]

Blame the right for the laws not passing and nothing been done for six months. Ignore the fact that the laws were filled with BS and earmarks which was the biggest reason it was voted down. Leave the millions of dollars in earmarks off and it probably would have passed.

[Oerets]

The Fourth Amendment seems to able to be modified to suit current events, without much push back from elected officials. All in the name of public safety. So why is the Second so sacred?



Barney

[finnbow]

Blame the right for the laws not passing and nothing been done for six months. Ignore the fact that the laws were filled with BS and earmarks which was the biggest reason it was voted down. Leave the millions of dollars in earmarks off and it probably would have passed.

Not exactly. It was not passed due to lawmaker fear of the NRA. Any discussion of earmarks was an excuse by lawmakers to infer that they weren't cowed by the NRA.

[MikeG22]

Right it wasn't the millions of dollars the dems tacked onto the law. Excuse or not the earmarks were stupid and did not need to be there. Pass the law and just the law, why give them an excuse.

Keep blaming the NRA, not the ineffective greedy lawmakers.

[BlueStreak]

"Keep blaming the NRA, not the ineffective greedy lawmakers."

I blame both.

I've seen LaPierres irresponsible, fearmongering BS on the NRA website.

Dave

[MikeG22]

And the gun control advocates passing the Newtown families around like a circus isn't fear mongering. It was pathetic after awhile. LaPierre as big a piece of crap as he is, is a effective politician. Less can be said about the senate.

[finnbow]

And the gun control advocates passing the Newtown families around like a circus isn't fear mongering. It was pathetic after awhile. LaPierre as big a piece of crap as he is, is a effective politician. Less can be said about the senate.

Once their families have been torn asunder by gun violence, the surviving members feel compelled to do what they can to fix the problem of gun violence. I understand this.

[CarlV]

And the gun control advocates passing the Newtown families around like a circus isn't fear mongering. It was pathetic after awhile. LaPierre as big a piece of crap as he is, is a effective politician. Less can be said about the senate.

I thought the families of Newtown victims organized themselves and went to Washington on their own?


Carl

[CarlV]

By Deborah Zabarenko

WASHINGTON | Tue Apr 9, 2013 7:31pm EDT

(Reuters) - Family members of the Newtown school shooting victims flew into Washington on Air Force One to press for gun-control legislation, but kept a low profile as they held private meetings with senators on Tuesday.

After coming to the capital aboard the presidential plane on Monday evening, the families had breakfast with Vice President Joe Biden. He said after the two-hour meeting, "I wish the members of Congress had been able to eavesdrop on the discussion in my home today."

The 11 family members stayed largely out of sight on the first of three days of lobbying in Washington, maintaining that private meetings with lawmakers would serve their cause better than grandstanding. They did hold a conference call with reporters.

"We're just private citizens who are now part of a club we never wanted to be in," said Bill Sherlach, whose wife Mary was the school psychologist at Sandy Hook Elementary School, one of six adults and 20 children killed in the December 14 attack.

"We're not up on all the political wranglings that go on," Sherlach said. "We're just the ordinary public, coming to the people that we elected to the offices nationwide and try to bring a program to the table that will be wide-ranging."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/09/us-usa-guns-newtown-idUSBRE93818K20130409


Carl

[BlueStreak]

And the gun control advocates passing the Newtown families around like a circus isn't fear mongering. No, that's sympathy seeking. There is a difference. It was pathetic after awhile. LaPierre as big a piece of crap as he is, is a effective politician. Less can be said about the senate.

In the bolded; Thank you. He's also a businessman selling memberships.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Once their families have been torn asunder by gun violence, the surviving members feel compelled to do what they can to fix the problem of gun violence. I understand this.

I thought the families of Newtown victims organized themselves and went to Washington on their own?


Carl

By Deborah Zabarenko

WASHINGTON | Tue Apr 9, 2013 7:31pm EDT



Carl

Yup.

Dave

[merrylander]

In the bolded; Thank you. He's also a businessman selling memberships.

Dave

Thhe slimy bastard sent me an application - just finished shredding it.

[bobabode]

Once their families have been torn asunder by gun violence, the surviving members feel compelled to do what they can to fix the problem of gun violence. I understand this.

Sadly, so do I.:(

[MikeG22]

I relate gun violence victim's families to families of victims killed by drunk drivers. It's like you had an opinion before but your opinion does not really matter until you involuntary become part of this really awful group. Now your plea for laws to be passed matters because you became part of this group.

Is the only way you voice matters to be part of a victim's family?

[barbara]

I relate gun violence victim's families to families of victims killed by drunk drivers. It's like you had an opinion before but your opinion does not really matter until you involuntary become part of this really awful group. Now your plea for laws to be passed matters because you became part of this group.

Is the only way you voice matters to be part of a victim's family?

No. Your voice matters every time you contact your elected officials and every time you vote.

[MikeG22]

Do you think the elected official gives two craps when you make a phone call to their office? Chances are good you will be pawned of on an intern who will listen to your gripes and tell you they will pass them on. Unless of course you have money to donate to their campaign or your company has something to offer.

[Zeke]

the fourth amendment seems to able to be modified to suit current events, without much push back from elected officials. All in the name of public safety. So why is the second so sacred?



Barney

irrational fear.

[barbara]

Do you think the elected official gives two craps when you make a phone call to their office? Chances are good you will be pawned of on an intern who will listen to your gripes and tell you they will pass them on. Unless of course you have money to donate to their campaign or your company has something to offer.

Yes, your elected officials do give a crap about what you have to say. The closer to election time, the better they will hear you. And, even though at times you may have to deal with their legislative assistants, your message will be heard.

Apparently you have never bothered to exercise your voice in this way and are unfamiliar with how successful it can be if done properly.

[JJIII]

I saw that one. He was pounced on by someone who shall remain nameless with a reference to them still having meat cleavers and knives and another from Arizona who had a choice view that out of staters were ruining his state. I stayed out of it.

I'll claim the cleavers and knives comment.

Thanks for your concern though.

[MikeG22]

Barbara, are your local politicians the same party that you are registered? Mine are all the opposite and when you call them you call goes right in the trash. One of my best friends was head of staff for our congressmen years ago and when I met him for lunch one day he showed me the pile of phone memos they got in a week. Not registered voter for their party, right in the trash. Repeat annoying caller, in the trash. Campaign contributer, personal phone call back from the congressmen. Total BS. Since I live in a right dominated district my vote and voice basically doesn't count. Doesn't stop me from voting though.

Oh and yes I have called my local politicians. Usually for planning board issues and yes it can be helpful. Any higher level of office though not so much.

[barbara]

Barbara, are your local politicians the same party that you are registered? Mine are all the opposite and when you call them you call goes right in the trash. One of my best friends was head of staff for our congressmen years ago and when I met him for lunch one day he showed me the pile of phone memos they got in a week. Not registered voter for their party, right in the trash. Repeat annoying caller, in the trash. Campaign contributer, personal phone call back from the congressmen. Total BS. Since I live in a right dominated district my vote and voice basically doesn't count. Doesn't stop me from voting though.

Oh and yes I have called my local politicians. Usually for planning board issues and yes it can be helpful. Any higher level of office though not so much.

Mike, I communicate and meet with local and state elected officials on a regular basis. Not one of them belongs to the party I am registered to.



The approach one takes typically determines success or failure in this endeavor.

[merrylander]

I write to my Senators and Conggressman quite often and get persomnal replies. Senator Barb also came to our aid on occasion as needed.

[piece-itpete]

If only we'd ban guns, there'd be no more death and tragedy in the world.

Pete

[bobabode]

If only we'd ban guns, there'd be no more death and tragedy in the world.

Pete

No, you're wrong there, Pete but closing the gun show loophole and requiring background checks on private sales just might save more than a few innocent lives.

[piece-itpete]

Perhaps Bob, but it wouldn't have done a thing in this instance, which means it will happen again eventually - what do we do then?

Pete

[bobabode]

Barbara, are your local politicians the same party that you are registered? Mine are all the opposite and when you call them you call goes right in the trash. One of my best friends was head of staff for our congressmen years ago and when I met him for lunch one day he showed me the pile of phone memos they got in a week. Not registered voter for their party, right in the trash. Repeat annoying caller, in the trash. Campaign contributer, personal phone call back from the congressmen. Total BS. Since I live in a right dominated district my vote and voice basically doesn't count. Doesn't stop me from voting though.

Oh and yes I have called my local politicians. Usually for planning board issues and yes it can be helpful. Any higher level of office though not so much.

I've received responses from my representative Dana Rohrbacher and I guarantee that we don't see eye to eye on a host of issues.

[merrylander]

Perhaps Bob, but it wouldn't have done a thing in this instance, which means it will happen again eventually - what do we do then?

Pete

Which is why I say we should do background checks on every member of the household.

[bobabode]

Which is why I say we should do background checks on every member of the household.

At the very least we should required safety devices i.e. trigger locks and/or gun safes for home storage of weapons. I could get behind requiring an insurance policy for gun owners who keep weapons in the home.
I'll be damned, I sound like an NRA member...:rolleyes:

[bobabode]

Perhaps Bob, but it wouldn't have done a thing in this instance, which means it will happen again eventually - what do we do then?

Pete

How do you type when you're sitting on your hands, Pete?:p

[BlueStreak]

Perhaps Bob, but it wouldn't have done a thing in this instance, which means it will happen again eventually - what do we do then?

Pete

How could it have not accomplished anything? How in the hell is NOT having backround checks in the secondary market accomplishing anything?

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Which is why I say we should do background checks on every member of the household.

YES!

At the very least we should required safety devices i.e. trigger locks and/or gun safes for home storage of weapons. I could get behind requiring an insurance policy for gun owners who keep weapons in the home.
I'll be damned, I sound like an NRA member...:rolleyes:

YES!

How do you type when you're sitting on your hands, Pete?:p

EXACTLY!

Dave

[piece-itpete]

So when a new member of the household comes along - what then?

A family member moves in, a friend, a new spouse? When do we have a pyc evaluation of a new child? 8? 10? 14? - 5?

Stating the obvious isn't necessarily sitting on ones' hands ;)

Pete

[bobabode]

So when a new member of the household comes along - what then?

A family member moves in, a friend, a new spouse? When do we have a pyc evaluation of a new child? 8? 10? 14? - 5?

Stating the obvious isn't necessarily sitting on ones' hands ;)

Pete

Gun safety courses on the family plan...sounds good to me.

[barbara]

So when a new member of the household comes along - what then?

A family member moves in, a friend, a new spouse? When do we have a pyc evaluation of a new child? 8? 10? 14? - 5?

Stating the obvious isn't necessarily sitting on ones' hands ;)

Pete

Not having a gun in the house would eliminate that dilemma, wouldn't it?

[finnbow]

Not having a gun in the house would eliminate that dilemma, wouldn't it?

Of course, but it emasculates the man of the house.;)

[bobabode]

Of course, but it emasculates the man of the house.;)

:rolleyes:How could you tell? It seems to me that even owning a military grade weapon proves a deficiency in testosterone...:rolleyes:

[barbara]

Of course, but it emasculates the man of the house.;)

;)


So here's the thing, finnbow.... I hear lots of gun enthusiasts state they need a gun for protection from intruders into their home. That seems to be a main argument.
So, since you are a gun owner of many years.... How many times have you actually had to use your gun to protect your home?

Not asking this to pick a fight.... And I don't remember you using that excuse for gun ownership.... But I am just trying to figure out how much guns are actually used effectively for home protection. My anecdotal experience along with my gut tells me this just doesn't happen much.

So many people say that is their reason to own a gun, but no one I have run across has actually used a gun to ward off an intruder. Lots of bravado about how they would do it and how ready they are for it, but no real life experience of doing it.

I could be more accepting of gun ownership if people had really valid reasons to own them. Like, they live 500 miles from a grocery store and need to hunt for survival or something like that which would actually justify gun ownership.

[BlueStreak]

Just wondering aloud, because I now know more than one person this actually happened to;

I wonder how many homes have been successfully robbed and the purpose of the robbery was solely to steal the guns?

I'm sure it's not a huge number, but, it would be interesting.

Dave

[finnbow]

;)
So here's the thing, finnbow.... I hear lots of gun enthusiasts state they need a gun for protection from intruders into their home. That seems to be a main argument.
So, since you are a gun owner of many years.... How many times have you actually had to use your gun to protect your home?

Never. My 10 or so guns remain locked in a safe, as does the ammo. It's in the basement and I sleep two stories up from them. All of my guns (except an older Colt revolver which was given to me by in-laws years ago as a family heirloom) were bought for the purpose of hunting large & small game as well as birds and waterfowl. In order to prepare for the hunt, I also shoot a fair amount at the local club.

[barbara]

Never. My 10 or so guns remain locked in a safe, as does the ammo. It's in the basement and I sleep two stories up from them. All of my guns (except an older Colt revolver which was given to me by in-laws years ago as a family heirloom) were bought for the purpose of hunting large & small game as well as birds and waterfowl. In order to prepare for the hunt, I also shoot a fair amount at the local club.

Exactly my point.
Most people who say they need a gun for protection are only fooling themselves.

Chances are, if they found them self in that situation, their gun would be properly stored and unavailable to use. Or, if by chance they had access to their gun, it is more likely the intruder would take it from them.

[MikeG22]

Used my gun to shoot two deer last year. Over 100lbs of meat in the freezer. Shoot hundreds of little clay targets a year for fun, good way to blow off stress. Was going to shoot a good size turkey couple weeks ago and instead took down a coyote that was drawn in from our calls.

Same guns sits in my closet just in case. Haven't had to use it, and hope to never have to use it, for that reason. I choose a firearm to protect my family, if someone doesn't then that's their decision. I don't care what the stats are, or the percentage of folks who have used their gun to deter home invaders, I choose to have it. If you don't that's your choice.

[BlueStreak]

When these guns are stolen, guess where they go........................

Dave

[barbara]

When these guns are stolen, guess where they go........................

Dave

Good point.

[JJIII]

;)


So here's the thing, finnbow.... I hear lots of gun enthusiasts state they need a gun for protection from intruders into their home. That seems to be a main argument.
So, since you are a gun owner of many years.... How many times have you actually had to use your gun to protect your home?

Not asking this to pick a fight.... And I don't remember you using that excuse for gun ownership.... But I am just trying to figure out how much guns are actually used effectively for home protection. My anecdotal experience along with my gut tells me this just doesn't happen much.

So many people say that is their reason to own a gun, but no one I have run across has actually used a gun to ward off an intruder. Lots of bravado about how they would do it and how ready they are for it, but no real life experience of doing it.

I could be more accepting of gun ownership if people had really valid reasons to own them. Like, they live 500 miles from a grocery store and need to hunt for survival or something like that which would actually justify gun ownership.

See here...

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

and here...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/

There are many more if you care to search.

[MikeG22]

So that's the anti-gun process, they kill people, they are owned for but rarely used for what their intention was, and then they can be stolen.

Explain again how you can't relate these to ridiculously powerful sports cars. People drive them like assholes and kill themselves and others, they are build for the track but rarely see one, and are a theft item which the thieves go on joy rides and hurt people. Oh that's right, they weren't made to kill people. Well neither is my gun, it was made to shoot birds and deer. We should all be driving Chevy volts so why is Audi growing in leaps and bounds? Damn these people and their needs for something so ridiculous.

I think I'm just getting tired of these threads. I'll stop now and let you guys come up with more witty things about stereotypical gun owners, that's usually the next step.

[barbara]

Mike, the sports car thing just doesn't work. Cars are made for the purpose of transporting people and when used properly, people are transported. Guns are made for the purpose of killing and maiming and when used properly, living things are killed or maimed.

Surely you can see the difference.

I am not against gun ownership. I think there are circumstances in which gun ownership is appropriate.

I just don't think there is any good reason for the average joe to be armed to the hilt.

[finnbow]

So that's the anti-gun process, they kill people, they are owned for but rarely used for what their intention was, and then they can be stolen.

Explain again how you can't relate these to ridiculously powerful sports cars. People drive them like assholes and kill themselves and others, they are build for the track but rarely see one, and are a theft item which the thieves go on joy rides and hurt people. Oh that's right, they weren't made to kill people. Well neither is my gun, it was made to shoot birds and deer. We should all be driving Chevy volts so why is Audi growing in leaps and bounds? Damn these people and their needs for something so ridiculous.

I think I'm just getting tired of these threads. I'll stop now and let you guys come up with more witty things about stereotypical gun owners, that's usually the next step.

Gun owners (of which I am one) don't do themselves any favors with silly analogies such as this one. It always comes off as an attempt to change the subject and obfuscate the issues at play.

BTW, the gun used in Santa Monica and Newtown (the AR-15) was indeed specifically designed to kill people as efficiently as possible. While the cartridge itself (.223 Remington/5.56 NATO) is indeed often used for varmint hunting, the AR-15 platform was designed by Eugene Stoner as a killing machine. Same goes for the AK-47, BTW. It's cartridge is rarely used for hunting, but it is used in the most widely distributed assault rifle in the world (by a wide measure). It too was specifically designed as a weapon of war and was a cheap takeoff of the Nazi Sturmgewehr 44. All of these weapons are purpose-built assault rifles (in fact, Sturmgewehr translates to directly to assault weapon). They were not designed to assault deer.

[piece-itpete]

Barbara:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/bloglist.aspx?id=21

Pete

[merrylander]

;)


So here's the thing, finnbow.... I hear lots of gun enthusiasts state they need a gun for protection from intruders into their home. That seems to be a main argument.
So, since you are a gun owner of many years.... How many times have you actually had to use your gun to protect your home?

Not asking this to pick a fight.... And I don't remember you using that excuse for gun ownership.... But I am just trying to figure out how much guns are actually used effectively for home protection. My anecdotal experience along with my gut tells me this just doesn't happen much.

So many people say that is their reason to own a gun, but no one I have run across has actually used a gun to ward off an intruder. Lots of bravado about how they would do it and how ready they are for it, but no real life experience of doing it.

I could be more accepting of gun ownership if people had really valid reasons to own them. Like, they live 500 miles from a grocery store and need to hunt for survival or something like that which would actually justify gun ownership.

An interesting point as one of our neighbours who lives up a pipestem road - this puts their home in the woods behind us. Well the previous owners came home one day early and surprised the burglers. They ran off and the homeowners found all their weaaponry piled up on the Family Room floor.

Well they put everything away - obviously not in a gun safe because the burglers came back the next day and walked off with the lot.

The house sold and the new owners came around to call. In time we got to know them better and we let them set up their alarm system to call us as well as the owners. Got the call one day and went around to have a look. Met the county police at the house and we found the rear deck door forced. No one in the house so the police left. I waited for the lady of the house to arrive. We went through the house checking all their hiding places to ensure non of the guns were stolen.

The common thread in both cases was the presence of handguns, how the crooks knew I have no idea. I did recomment that the owner put some decent locks on his doors. Our place is more like Fort Knox than the average home.

[JBS...]

;)


So here's the thing, finnbow.... I hear lots of gun enthusiasts state they need a gun for protection from intruders into their home. That seems to be a main argument.
So, since you are a gun owner of many years.... How many times have you actually had to use your gun to protect your home?

Not asking this to pick a fight.... And I don't remember you using that excuse for gun ownership.... But I am just trying to figure out how much guns are actually used effectively for home protection. My anecdotal experience along with my gut tells me this just doesn't happen much.

So many people say that is their reason to own a gun, but no one I have run across has actually used a gun to ward off an intruder. Lots of bravado about how they would do it and how ready they are for it, but no real life experience of doing it.

I could be more accepting of gun ownership if people had really valid reasons to own them. Like, they live 500 miles from a grocery store and need to hunt for survival or something like that which would actually justify gun ownership.

A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone "almost certainly would have been killed" if they "had not used a gun for protection." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."

"Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun." By Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995

A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:

• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"



Book: Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms (Expanded Edition). By James D. Wright and Peter D. Rossi. Aldine De Gruyter, 1986

[Zeke]

So that's the anti-gun process, they kill people, they are owned for but rarely used for what their intention was, and then they can be stolen.

Explain again how you can't relate these to ridiculously powerful sports cars.

1. Licensing.
2. Insurance.
3. No perceived "right" to own one.
4. Expectation of skilled use via DMV testing.
5. Annual monitoring of upkeep via inspection.

Need I go on? :rolleyes:

[finnbow]

All sorts of researchers have challenged the veracity of Kleck's study.

http://franklycurious.com/index.php?itemid=4662\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck#Debate_over_defensive_gun_usage_study

[BlueStreak]

I bought my Challenger for hunting squirrels. I've gotten a few with it, but it tends to flatten them out a little. That and it's not much good once they go up a tree.

Dave

[MikeG22]

All sorts of researchers have challenged the veracity of Kleck's study.


Yeah researchers who don't like the facts it exposes.

[finnbow]

Yeah researchers who don't like the facts it exposes.

It exposes that they aren't facts, it seems to me.

[barbara]

Some more facts...

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

[MikeG22]

I bought my Challenger for hunting squirrels. I've gotten a few with it, but it tends to flatten them out a little. That and it's not much good once they go up a tree.

Dave

Dave a Challenger!!! That car serves no purpose besides going fast and driving reckless. There is no way you could own that without being irresponsible. Do you know how easily it could be stolen? If its stolen the thief may try to out run the cops and hurt lots of people. I'm sure the manufacturer advertises it as a reasonable non-reckless vehicle, oh no there's a commercial of the car burning up its rear tires on launch.

Weird this sounds a lot like something.

Sweet car by the way. I've always been a GM fan but those new Mopars have really got my attention. Oh no why do I like all these things people hate.

[MikeG22]

It exposes that they aren't facts, it seems to me.

Or it creates more biased "facts" to suit those researchers' political stance.

[BlueStreak]

Dave a Challenger!!! That car serves no purpose besides going fast and driving reckless. There is no way you could own that without being irresponsible. Do you know how easily it could be stolen? If its stolen the thief may try to out run the cops and hurt lots of people. I'm sure the manufacturer advertises it as a reasonable non-reckless vehicle, oh no there's a commercial of the car burning up its rear tires on launch.

Weird this sounds a lot like something.

Sweet car by the way. I've always been a GM fan but those new Mopars have really got my attention. Oh no why do I like all these things people hate.

I once considered killing and maiming seventy people in a movie theater with it. Fortunately for them, it wouldn't fit through the door.

Dave

[finnbow]

Or it creates more biased "facts" to suit those researchers' political stance.

It seems to me that you're admitting that Kleck's study was biased to serve a political agenda. We agree.

[piece-itpete]

Dave just wants to warm the planet :D

Barbara that is an interesting link. I would like to see the suicide rates compared overall, as one who decides to kill ones' self will do so with the means at their disposal regardless.

If you pull suicides out our death by gun rate drops to .0000399% and more halves our deaths per 100,000 putting us somewhere in Europes' general numbers.

Also is says that we have 10.2 gun deaths per 100,000, and then shows the graph at closer to 15 per.

Pete

[piece-itpete]

Oh I see, it shows old numbers in the graph.

Pete

[MikeG22]

People get killed all the time by reckless drivers driving into buildings. If you managed to dukes of hazard (no pun intended) into a crowd I bet you could get that death count up. It's not a old Ford, those would burst into flames killing even more people.

[BlueStreak]

Dave just wants to warm the planet :D



I'm trying to turn Ohio into a tropical paradise, so it won't be such a miserable, frozen tundra when I retire.:)

Dave

[BlueStreak]

People get killed all the time by reckless drivers driving into buildings. If you managed to dukes of hazard (no pun intended) into a crowd I bet you could get that death count up. It's not a old Ford, those would burst into flames killing even more people.

Yeah.

Dave

[bobabode]

I've got to go and troubleshoot a sprinkler system. It is killing far too many earthworms and plants.:rolleyes:

[Rex E.]

I've got to go and troubleshoot a sprinkler system. It is killing far too many earthworms and plants.:rolleyes:

Keep an eye out for someone pulling a Lincoln Towncar out of their jacket and taking a few shots at ya.......


:D

[bobabode]

Keep an eye out for someone pulling a Lincoln Towncar out of their jacket and taking a few shots at ya.......


:D


Pete's in town?:D

[piece-itpete]

:D

Pete

[bobabode]

I see the Newtown families are back on the Hill. Good for them. Those four Dems who voted against background checks appear to have painted targets on their backs. Maybe some of those red staters will be shown the door too.

[glen65]

Don't fret guys,
Maybe you can get president Obama to push this plan..

Grade School Offers Books and Prizes In Toy Gun Buyback Plan

Say what you will about the San Francisco Bay Area, at least it’s a place where people don’t shy away from the stereotypes inflicted upon them.

Charles Hill, principal of Hayward, California’s Strobridge Elementary School is a bold case in point. Surely principal Hill might have anticipated a degree of blowback in snark coverage when he proposed a “toy gun buyback” program for the wee scholars of Strobridge. But the notion of becoming a viral punch line failed to take the courage out of Hill’s convictions.

“Playing with toy guns, saying ‘I’m going to shoot you,’ desensitizes [children],” Hill told the San Jose Mercury News. “So as they get older, it’s easier for them to use a real gun.”

A causal link between playing with toy guns as a child and shooting another human being with a real firearm as an adult has yet to be established, but sometimes preemptive action is preferred while waiting for science to play catch up.

Playing with toy guns, saying ‘I’m going to shoot you,’ desensitizes [children]. So as they get older, it’s easier for them to use a real gun.

The Hayward toy gun buyback offered a book and a raffle ticket to win one of four bicycles to any child willing to forfeit a toy gun. Police officers were on-hand at the event to teach kids about safety.

Hill came up with his scheme following a conversation with a photographer who was distressed by the number of young people being shot by Oakland police.

Currently, Strobridge Elementary has not extended its gun buyback offer to the police of Oakland, but such an overture would probably have little effect on gun homicides and accidental shooting deaths in the community.

Law enforcement officials in America’s urban population centers have been staging buyback programs of real, lethal guns for decades. Opinions over the results of these programs are mixed.

While homes that contain no firearms are less likely to experience fatal gun accidents than are armed residences, no credible statistics have been compiled to confirm the supposition that gun buybacks reduce gun violence.

The science, or lack of it, is not a governing concern with some forward-thinking grade-school administrators across the land.
In August 2012, three-year-old Hunter Spanjer, who is deaf, was informed by his Nebraska school district that he would need to change either his name or the “hand signature” used to sign his name. The hand signature violated the district’s zero-tolerance policy of any “instrument” that “looks like a gun.” On March 1, 2013, Josh Welch, a seven-year-old at Baltimore, Maryland’s Park Elementary School was suspended for two days because he chewed a Pop-Tart into the shape of a handgun. In late May 2013, a five-year-old boy at Calvert County elementary school, also in Maryland, was suspended from school for bringing a toy gun onto a school bus and showing it to a friend. The school’s principal reportedly informed an attorney for the boy’s family that if the gun had been loaded—with caps—police would have been called in.

These kids are being taught some sort of object lesson; it just might not be about gun safety.
http://news.yahoo.com/grade-school-offers-toy-gun-buybacks-nra-apoplexy-213805895.html




Now this is the ticket -problem solved. LOL

[merrylander]

Depends what you call a "toy gun" as there are Paintball style CO2 driver airguns that can fire a 6mm pellet at 550 FPS muzzle velocity and that will draw blood.

Not that I believe eliminating toy guns will solve the problen here. We all had "toy guns" growing up in Canada yet we did not go around killing people. However, don't get the idea that they were wusses. Even US Marines would think twice about messing with the BlackWatch or Vingt-Deux* regiments.

The Royal 22nd aka the VanDoos or Vingt-Deuxs.

I am so glad that you find humour in Newtown.

[piece-itpete]

Change his name - sheesh. What arrogance.

Glen I played with lead toy soldiers (me & dad made them) as well as toy guns. It explains a lot, I think. I should be on some sort of watch list and not be allowed to own a firearm.

Pete

[CarlV]

When you have an organization that has grown into a plague upon the American people like the NRA you need to try anything and starting with our young is a great place. If it saves one life it was a success.

Rachel Maddow's hometown is Hayward BTW. :)


Carl

[glen65]

Depends what you call a "toy gun" as there are Paintball style CO2 driver airguns that can fire a 6mm pellet at 550 FPS muzzle velocity and that will draw blood.

They are talking about Little kids with toy guns that have no capacity to
draw anything, but the attention of people who thinks this is a good idea.

Not that I believe eliminating toy guns will solve the problen here.

Ok, then stop attempting to defend this.

We all had "toy guns" growing up in Canada yet we did not go around killing people.

Same here, that's at least part of what make this idea so ridiculous.

However, don't get the idea that they were wusses.
Even US Marines would think twice about messing with the BlackWatch or Vingt-Deux* regiments. The Royal 22nd aka the VanDoos or Vingt-Deuxs.


I never accused the Canadian population of being wusses.

I am so glad that you find humour in Newtown.

I was going to put something in my earlier post to assure you that I don't.
I refrained thinking you wouldn't be so predictable. But it seems there's always
someone that replies back who never fails to disappoint.

I found this idea humorous, not the shooting. But I suspect you already knew that.

[glen65]

Change his name - sheesh. What arrogance.

Glen I played with lead toy soldiers (me & dad made them) as well as toy guns. It explains a lot, I think. I should be on some sort of watch list and not be allowed to own a firearm.

Pete

Same here, I just had the green plastic ones.

[piece-itpete]

Same here, I just had the green plastic ones.

http://fruitfly.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/body-snatchers.jpg

[glen65]

When you have an organization that has grown into a plague upon the American people like the NRA you need to try anything and starting with our young is a great place. If it saves one life it was a success.



Then why stop here? Why not just ban toy guns altogether?

Rachel Maddow's hometown is Hayward BTW. :)

Rachel who?

[barbara]

Rachel Maddow's hometown is Hayward BTW. :)


Carl


Thought her hometown was Castro Valley.
Not that there is a whole lot of difference.....

[merrylander]

They are talking about Little kids with toy guns that have no capacity to
draw anything, but the attention of people who thinks this is a good idea.

One of the "toy guns" siezed in Maryland was a fairly sophisticated air pistol.

Ok, then stop attempting to defend this.


Not that I believe eliminating toy guns will solve the problen here. So what part of that senrtebce defended anything?

Same here, that's at least part of what make this idea so ridiculous.

I was going to put something in my earlier post to assure you that I don't.
I refrained thinking you wouldn't be so predictable. But it seems there's always someone that replies back who never fails to disappoint.

Then why is it that you gun lovers always manage to link to something patently stupid rather than offering anything sensible? Granted that Americans will never be weaned from their guns, all we are asking for is some gun owner responsibility. No one wants your guns but we most certainly would like some assurance that the people acquiring them are reasoably intelligent mentally balanced adults

I found this idea humorous, not the shooting. But I suspect you already knew that.

Difficult to tell from some of the stuff you guys post.

[CarlV]

Thought her hometown was Castro Valley.
Not that there is a whole lot of difference.....

I could well be wrong. Hmm, wiki sez CV. I'm good with it. :p


Carl

[CarlV]

Then why stop here? Why not just ban toy guns altogether?



Rachel who?

I just want some NRA fanboy to explain to me why if you register your car you do not lose your right to own and use it like they all say what happens if you register guns. That and why do stores register guns and those people do not lose their gun ownership rights.
Only if you buy one at a gunshow and should you register it you would lose your right to own and use it?


Carl

[glen65]

I just want some NRA fanboy to explain to me why if you register your car you do not lose your right to own and use it like they all say what happens if you register guns. That and why do stores register guns and those people do not lose their gun ownership rights.
Only if you buy one at a gunshow and should you register it you would lose your right to own and use it?


Carl

When you find an NRA fan boy then ask him.

[glen65]

One of the "toy guns" siezed in Maryland was a fairly sophisticated air pistol.

This isn't about seizing something that's not permitted. This is
about buying toy guns back from kids (voluntarily) which pose no real risk.

So what part of that senrtebce defended anything?
You keep bringing up "specific types" of guns which might be harmful.
It looked like you were presenting it as justification for the idea.

Then why is it that you gun lovers always manage to link to something patently stupid

Good to see you're finally calling the idea for what it is.

rather than offering anything sensible?

The op is complaining about progress.
I was just being sarcastic, lighten up ;)

Granted that Americans will never be weaned from their guns, all we are asking for is some gun owner responsibility.

Generally law abiding gun owners are. It's those who illegally obtain them to commit
violent crimes who are the biggest threat to society.

No one wants your guns
What makes you think I have any? You don't have to own them to have a position either way.

but we most certainly would like some assurance that the people acquiring them are reasoably intelligent mentally balanced adults

When you listen to some on the left, none of them are.

Difficult to tell from some of the stuff you guys post.

*Chuckle* I see, so conservatives all look alike.

[CarlV]

When you find an NRA fan boy then ask him.

Why thank you Mr Thread Advisor. :p

I have, more than once, and it gets spun every time.



Carl

[bobabode]

Why thank you Mr Thread Advisor. :p

I have, more than once, and it gets spun every time.



Carl

"Chuckles" is the only one impressed by his attempts at wit and wisdom.

[Rex E.]

*Chuckle* I see, so conservatives all look alike.

Nope...but they think and sound alike.....;)

[Charles]

Nope...but they think and sound alike.....;)

Well of course.

As we knuckle draggers spent the majority of out time listening to Rush and "Dr. Beck", we've developed not only their mentality, but their mannerisms as well.

If it weren't for occasionally viewing the liberals at Faux News, we could pass for clones.

Much like you donks.

Chas

[Rex E.]

Well of course.

As we knuckle draggers spent the majority of out time listening to Rush and "Dr. Beck", we've developed not only their mentality, but their mannerisms as well.

If it weren't for occasionally viewing the liberals at Faux News, we could pass for clones.

Much like you donks.

Chas

You have me in the wrong corner....in fact, I'm not in any of the corners..... and remember.....I spent a large majority of my life in the Rep corner and know it well. From the BS patriot game to the Levine's, Savage's and all the others.

Well aware of the game from the right.

[bobabode]

Well of course.

As we knuckle draggers spent the majority of out time listening to Rush and "Dr. Beck", we've developed not only their mentality, but their mannerisms as well.

If it weren't for occasionally viewing the liberals at Faux News, we could pass for clones.

Much like you donks.

Chas

Better to be a Kennedy clone than a Tricky Dick clone...:D;)

[BlueStreak]

You have me in the wrong corner....in fact, I'm not in any of the corners..... and remember.....I spent a large majority of my life in the Rep corner and know it well. From the BS patriot game to the Levine's, Savage's and all the others.

Well aware of the game from the right.

I'd say I feel the same, except I became completely disgusted with the GOPs tactics long ago. And, that was when the party was full of moderates. Now that the party has filled up with red faced haters and far right freaks I see no reason to waste my time with them at all.

Unfortunately, the only other place to put a vote is in the (D) collumn.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Better to be a Kennedy clone than a Tricky Dick clone...:D;)

At least JFK was fairly likeable. One of my favorite JFK quotes from the 1960 campaign;

"The American people are beginning to realize......I'm the only thing that stands between the Whitehouse and Richard Nixon."

Probably why he was killed.................and Bobby in '68.;)

Dave

[mpholland]

Unfortunately, the only other place to put a vote is in the (D) collumn.

Dave

It is too bad so many people feel that way. The country is in a bad state and I relly don't see anything real good coming from either party. The mentality these days if you don't like a candidate is to vote against him by voting for the main opposition. If more people would get rid of that mind set and take a chance on a third party we might actually be able to get somewhere. I am not just talking about the presidential elections either. It is happening somewhat already at local levels, but needs to be more far reaching up to state and federal levels.

[mpholland]

You have me in the wrong corner....in fact, I'm not in any of the corners..... and remember.....I spent a large majority of my life in the Rep corner and know it well. From the BS patriot game to the Levine's, Savage's and all the others.

Well aware of the game from the right.

I can identify with this. I started out as a D, then went R until Bush1 got elected. After I realized that mistake I went independent.

[bobabode]

I'd say I feel the same, except I became completely disgusted with the GOPs tactics long ago. And, that was when the party was full of moderates. Now that the party has filled up with red faced haters and far right freaks I see no reason to waste my time with them at all.

Unfortunately, the only other place to put a vote is in the (D) collumn.

Dave

It is too bad so many people feel that way. The country is in a bad state and I relly don't see anything real good coming from either party. The mentality these days if you don't like a candidate is to vote against him by voting for the main opposition. If more people would get rid of that mind set and take a chance on a third party we might actually be able to get somewhere. I am not just talking about the presidential elections either. It is happening somewhat already at local levels, but needs to be more far reaching up to state and federal levels.

You have me in the wrong corner....in fact, I'm not in any of the corners..... and remember.....I spent a large majority of my life in the Rep corner and know it well. From the BS patriot game to the Levine's, Savage's and all the others.

Well aware of the game from the right.


Sounds like the independent voters need to come up with a banner of their own to rally under.

[mpholland]

Sounds like the independent voters need to come up with a banner of their own to rally under.

Indeed. Too bad so many indies still vote D&R. Most independents I have met don't even have a clue who the third party candidates are, they just know they don't want to register as a D or R. Figure that one out.

[bobabode]

Indeed. Too bad so many indies still vote D&R. Most independents I have met don't even have a clue who the third party candidates are, they just know they don't want to register as a D or R. Figure that one out.

At times everyone has to hold their noses whilst voting.;)
At least the democrats give lip service (and more at times) to what the country should stand for but then I'm biased, strength in numbers and all that.:)

[BlueStreak]

It is too bad so many people feel that way. The country is in a bad state and I relly don't see anything real good coming from either party. The mentality these days if you don't like a candidate is to vote against him by voting for the main opposition. If more people would get rid of that mind set and take a chance on a third party we might actually be able to get somewhere. I am not just talking about the presidential elections either. It is happening somewhat already at local levels, but needs to be more far reaching up to state and federal levels.

Sounds like the independent voters need to come up with a banner of their own to rally under.

Indeed. Too bad so many indies still vote D&R. Most independents I have met don't even have a clue who the third party candidates are, they just know they don't want to register as a D or R. Figure that one out.

In my state I can and am registered Independent. The problem is there are so few Independents out there. Where is this third party? The Tea Party has been co-opted by the GOP or the other way around or whatever that mess is. (And appears to be even more whacked than the old GOP could have ever dreamed of being.)

Then there's the Green Party that has like, 11 members.

LaRouche, anyone? Oh, please.

Where is the party that understands and embodies Classical Liberalism, the Age of Enlightenment, reflects the ideas and intellectualism of Voltaire, Rousseau, Payne and Jefferson? (Without whatever unfortunate faults these men may have had.)

I guess I'm dreaming, now. But, I think everyone here knows what I mean.

Dave

[merrylander]

It is too bad so many people feel that way. The country is in a bad state and I relly don't see anything real good coming from either party. The mentality these days if you don't like a candidate is to vote against him by voting for the main opposition. If more people would get rid of that mind set and take a chance on a third party we might actually be able to get somewhere. I am not just talking about the presidential elections either. It is happening somewhat already at local levels, but needs to be more far reaching up to state and federal levels.

As long as the voter is confronted with labelled candidates (Either D or R) right down the the one running for dogcatcher come election day things will never change. If you want to be elected to the school board I really don't give a damn about your politics it is what can you bring to the board in the way of smarts.

After years as a paid up member of the Conservative Party in Canada it was a real dilemma once I was naturalized.:rolleyes:

[merrylander]

The problem with registering as an independent is that you are voiceless in the primaries. Guess I am spoiled having lived with the parliamentary system for so many years.

[barbara]

The problem with registering as an independent is that you are voiceless in the primaries. Guess I am spoiled having lived with the parliamentary system for so many years.

One can register as 'undeclared' and that way, can vote for any candidate, regardless of party.

[d-ray657]

One can register as 'undeclared' and that way, can vote for any candidate, regardless of party.

Depends on what state you live in. Some require registration in the party to vote in the primary. Others allow primary voting regardless of party registration.

Regards,

D-Ray

[barbara]

Depends on what state you live in. Some require registration in the party to vote in the primary. Others allow primary voting regardless of party registration.

Regards,

D-Ray

I didn't realize it was different in other states.

[piece-itpete]

..

LaRouche, anyone? Oh, please.

....

Beat me to it :D

Maybe Perot? :p

Pete

[piece-itpete]

To continue the toy gun thing, this kid's perhaps going to jail for wearing an NRA shirt to school?

"A West Virginia teen who was arrested after refusing to change out of his National Rifle Association T-shirt at school could face a fine and even jail time on a related charge.

A judge in Logan County Court is allowing prosecutors to charge 14-year-old Jared Marcum with obstructing an officer in the April 18 incident, reported CBS affiliate WTRF-TV.

The arresting officer in Logan, a city about an hour south of Charleston, said that Marcum wouldn’t stop talking during the frenzy at Lincoln Middle School, the station said.

The judge’s decision last week against Marcum now means prosecutors can seek a $500 fine and up to a year in jail for the former eighth-grader.

....."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/w-v-teen-refused-remove-nra-shirt-school-face-jail-time-related-charge-article-1.1374155#ixzz2WV9BdfDU

Pete

[merrylander]

One can register as 'undeclared' and that way, can vote for any candidate, regardless of party.

The whole thing just makes me shake my head, I did not have to register at all in Canada, other than as a voter so they could indicate my polling place.

[merrylander]

I didn't realize it was different in other states.

Welcome to the Balkan States of America, although the Constitution does allow the Feds to stipulate the rules.

[Rex E.]

To continue the toy gun thing, this kid's perhaps going to jail for wearing an NRA shirt to school?

"A West Virginia teen who was arrested after refusing to change out of his National Rifle Association T-shirt at school could face a fine and even jail time on a related charge.

A judge in Logan County Court is allowing prosecutors to charge 14-year-old Jared Marcum with obstructing an officer in the April 18 incident, reported CBS affiliate WTRF-TV.

The arresting officer in Logan, a city about an hour south of Charleston, said that Marcum wouldn’t stop talking during the frenzy at Lincoln Middle School, the station said.

The judge’s decision last week against Marcum now means prosecutors can seek a $500 fine and up to a year in jail for the former eighth-grader.

....."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/w-v-teen-refused-remove-nra-shirt-school-face-jail-time-related-charge-article-1.1374155#ixzz2WV9BdfDU

Pete

This is a silly school system and judge. Something tells me that the other students in the school are wearing t-shirts with video games or movies or superheros or tv shows or.....that are all chock full of violence. I see this kid winning a large civil suit.

Just silly.....:rolleyes:

[mpholland]

Welcome to the Balkan States of America, although the Constitution does allow the Feds to stipulate the rules.

I believe the only rules that the Feds can stipulate to states is how they handle federal elections.

[Rex E.]

I believe the only rules that the Feds can stipulate to states is how they handle federal elections.

They just hold back funding until the state agrees. Works every time...

[mpholland]

They just hold back funding until the state agrees. Works every time...

Yes, too bad the states are so reliant on federal funds. Makes lawmaking pretty complicated as politicians compete for pork. :D

[bobabode]

To continue the toy gun thing, this kid's perhaps going to jail for wearing an NRA shirt to school?

"A West Virginia teen who was arrested after refusing to change out of his National Rifle Association T-shirt at school could face a fine and even jail time on a related charge.

A judge in Logan County Court is allowing prosecutors to charge 14-year-old Jared Marcum with obstructing an officer in the April 18 incident, reported CBS affiliate WTRF-TV.

The arresting officer in Logan, a city about an hour south of Charleston, said that Marcum wouldn’t stop talking during the frenzy at Lincoln Middle School, the station said.

The judge’s decision last week against Marcum now means prosecutors can seek a $500 fine and up to a year in jail for the former eighth-grader.

....."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/w-v-teen-refused-remove-nra-shirt-school-face-jail-time-related-charge-article-1.1374155#ixzz2WV9BdfDU

Pete

Sounds like he refused a peace officer's lawful order to shut his yap. Maybe that is what the fine and unlikely jail time was actually about? Sounds like failed parenting. Maybe the parents need a time out?:rolleyes:

[d-ray657]

Some might long for the old days in which if the kid wouldn't shut up, they would shut him up with force. Instead, he faces an unpleasant time out.

Regards,

D-Ray

[JBS...]

To continue the toy gun thing, this kid's perhaps going to jail for wearing an NRA shirt to school?

"A West Virginia teen who was arrested after refusing to change out of his National Rifle Association T-shirt at school could face a fine and even jail time on a related charge.

A judge in Logan County Court is allowing prosecutors to charge 14-year-old Jared Marcum with obstructing an officer in the April 18 incident, reported CBS affiliate WTRF-TV.

The arresting officer in Logan, a city about an hour south of Charleston, said that Marcum wouldn’t stop talking during the frenzy at Lincoln Middle School, the station said.

The judge’s decision last week against Marcum now means prosecutors can seek a $500 fine and up to a year in jail for the former eighth-grader.

....."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/w-v-teen-refused-remove-nra-shirt-school-face-jail-time-related-charge-article-1.1374155#ixzz2WV9BdfDU

Pete

Another example of how our children are being made examples of in order to destroy the concept of the 2nd Amendment.


Pretty soon he wont be able to wear his own state seal on his shirt...

http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz171/jbstemp/StateSeal2_zps075f5d09.gif (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/jbstemp/media/StateSeal2_zps075f5d09.gif.html)

Montani Semper Liberi - "Mountaineers are Always Free"

Not if you wear a NRA shirt.

:rolleyes:

[bobabode]

His family could always move to Glennbeckistan. :rolleyes:

[d-ray657]

Another example of how our children are being made examples of in order to destroy the concept of the 2nd Amendment.


Pretty soon he wont be able to wear his own state seal on his shirt...

http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz171/jbstemp/StateSeal2_zps075f5d09.gif (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/jbstemp/media/StateSeal2_zps075f5d09.gif.html)

Montani Semper Liberi - "Mountaineers are Always Free"

Not if you wear a NRA shirt.

:rolleyes:

His situation has nothing to do with gun ownership except in the minds of those manipulated by the gun lobby's propaganda machine.

Regards,

D-Ray

[merrylander]

I believe the only rules that the Feds can stipulate to states is how they handle federal elections.

Which, near as I recall, was what we were discussing.

[merrylander]

To someone raised in an English school system the concept embodied in the 2nd Amendment refered to the need for a well regulated militia. Of course Wayne and company could pervert any language.

[Wasillaguy]

Well I reckon I don't know about no fancy "concept" that's "embodied" in there, seein's how I just got a regular country edumacation, so I just read the words the way they'z written and try to figger it from there.
They said a "well regulated" militia was necessary to maintain a free state. Then they immediately, with only a comma, declare that "the people's" right to keep and bear will not be infringed.

Obviously, they thought the only way to have a well regulated militia was by not taking guns from the citizens.
It's as plain as the nose on your face that the government can't regulate anything worth a damn and will not hesitate to stomp on freedom to get and maintain power.
The writers knew this and therefore left the task of keeping us free in the hands of the folks.
When they said "shall not be infringed", who do you think they had in mind that might try to infringe?

[piece-itpete]

It certainly is all about his t-shirt. He might have made it worse by speaking out... but why was the cop there again?

Pete

[merrylander]

Well I reckon I don't know about no fancy "concept" that's "embodied" in there, seein's how I just got a regular country edumacation, so I just read the words the way they'z written and try to figger it from there.
They said a "well regulated" militia was necessary to maintain a free state. Then they immediately, with only a comma, declare that "the people's" right to keep and bear will not be infringed.

Obviously, they thought the only way to have a well regulated militia was by not taking guns from the citizens.
It's as plain as the nose on your face that the government can't regulate anything worth a damn and will not hesitate to stomp on freedom to get and maintain power.
The writers knew this and therefore left the task of keeping us free in the hands of the folks.
When they said "shall not be infringed", who do you think they had in mind that might try to infringe?

Prior to the revolution all firearms for the militia were kept under lock and key by the colonial powers. Also "well regulated" was there because what earthly use would a militia be if everyone turned up at the fight with a dozen different rifle bores only find that the store of mini balls would not fit any of them. Yes I know each militia age citizen was expected to keep ammunition on hand but hardly enough for a protracted fight.

As was found during 1812 a 'militia' was no match for army regulars in any event. So all that horse feathers about overthrowing the government was just that.

BTW the comma made the first part the modifying clause, i.e., the reason for the last part.

[JJIII]

Prior to the revolution all firearms for the militia were kept under lock and key by the colonial powers. Also "well regulated" was there because what earthly use would a militia be if everyone turned up at the fight with a dozen different rifle bores only find that the store of mini balls would not fit any of them. Yes I know each militia age citizen was expected to keep ammunition on hand but hardly enough for a protracted fight.

As was found during 1812 a 'militia' was no match for army regulars in any event. So all that horse feathers about overthrowing the government was just that.

Afterwards a Constitution and Bill of Rights were written.

[bobabode]

Prior to the revolution all firearms for the militia were kept under lock and key by the colonial powers. Also "well regulated" was there because what earthly use would a militia be if everyone turned up at the fight with a dozen different rifle bores only find that the store of mini balls would not fit any of them. Yes I know each militia age citizen was expected to keep ammunition on hand but hardly enough for a protracted fight.

As was found during 1812 a 'militia' was no match for army regulars in any event. So all that horse feathers about overthrowing the government was just that.

BTW the comma made the first part the modifying clause, i.e., the reason for the last part.


Therein lies the rub, Rob. Uhmericans and the Engish, two wings of the same bird separated by a common language.:rolleyes:

[bobabode]

It certainly is all about his t-shirt. He might have made it worse by speaking out... but why was the cop there again?

Pete

Sounds like a case for the ACLU, Pete. (The T shirt part.:rolleyes:) The kid's on his own in regards to disobeying the lawful order of the peace officer. I'm sure the judge will be offering community service and probation in lieu of the fine & confinement, as long as the kid keeps his trap shut in the court room.;)

[bobabode]

Prior to the revolution all firearms for the militia were kept under lock and key by the colonial powers. Also "well regulated" was there because what earthly use would a militia be if everyone turned up at the fight with a dozen different rifle bores only find that the store of mini balls would not fit any of them. Yes I know each militia age citizen was expected to keep ammunition on hand but hardly enough for a protracted fight.

As was found during 1812 a 'militia' was no match for army regulars in any event. So all that horse feathers about overthrowing the government was just that.

BTW the comma made the first part the modifying clause, i.e., the reason for the last part.

Afterwards a Constitution and Bill of Rights were written.

...and yet still Uhmericans need english lessons.:p

[piece-itpete]

The second explains the reason for first. The first part of that sentence is very clear and can stand on its' own.

If that wasn't enough, at the time the militia included every able bodied white male.

The evidence is overwhelming, unless one perhaps has an agenda ;)

Pete

[merrylander]

No agenda Pete, I have no illusions that cooler heads will prevail, violence is too much a part of American society. Has been since 1776 and will never change until this nation self-destructs.

Look through your daily paper any day of the week and see the evidence in front of your eyes. Now with the 18 to 29 year old generation that has been raised on and by the Internet that should be sometime in the next twenty years.

[piece-itpete]

That does worry me, add the fragmentation of society and tolerance of things like rioting etc and I think we may have a recipe for disaster.

I did find it interesting though if you took suicide by guns out of the stats our gun rate was very similar to Europes' even though we have way more.

Pete

[bobabode]

The second explains the reason for first. The first part of that sentence is very clear and can stand on its' own.

If that wasn't enough, at the time the militia included every able bodied white male.

The evidence is overwhelming, unless one perhaps has an agenda ;)

Pete

I would argue the obverse. I'm just obstinate that way, Br'er Rabbit.:)

[merrylander]

It is not the "tolerance for rioting" because as near as I can see there is on tolerance, the police always show up in riot ger so to them everything looks like a riot. It is like the old saying about if all you have is a hammer . . . . .

What disturbs me the most is the complete lack of morality amongst the young - and I am not talking about sex. The supporters of Snowden say business and government should have everything out in the open and tha hackers are doing a service. Really, so what was the service provided by the hacker who tried to charge $250,000 worth of airline tickets on my Amex card. or the one who caused Bank of America to issue new Visa cards because some hacker got access to their records?

Interesting article in the WaPo that noted that most of our now "famous" tech giants started out breaking the law. But then I imagine that most intelligent people know that honesty does not get you into th 1%.

No, the attitude of this Internet generation seems to be that they are entitled to do whatever they damn well please and we should applaud their behaviour.

Indescrinate violence visited upon innocent strangers just for the hell of it. Gets to the point that I walk out to the mailbox with a .38 in my hands.

[piece-itpete]

Wow even I don't do that Rob, you're not going righty on us are you? :D

I'm not even 'old' yet and can see the difference in overall society. It seems much coarser. But perhaps I'm just seeing it more clearly? I don't know.

Bob it's pretty straightforward in my mind. If you take the bits alone, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State." is a suggestion or advice to the future or government or both, it's not actionable. "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." is a clear order.

Pete

[merrylander]

Pete I will grant you that I am older and it is more violent than t used to be. It sometimes seems like "What do yo want to do tonight?"

"I dunno."

"Let's go out and beat the hell outta some old guy and his wife."