There they go again....

[bobabode]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-votes-to-ban-abortion-after-20-weeks/2013/06/18/c14e9c48-d835-11e2-9df4-895344c13c30_story_1.html

There was even a Republican representative from Texas on TV talking about fetal maturbation prior to twenty four weeks gestation. Of course, this bill is going nowhere-it's what the Republican controlled House of Representatives does. They waste the taxpayers money pandering to their extremist base instead of doing their jobs.

[merrylander]

Someone should tell them that when you cirle the wagons you are supposed to fire outward, not inward. Any group led by the likes of Boner and Cantor is bound to screw up.

[BlueStreak]

"After Pelosi called the bill “dangerous and wrong,” Blackman retorted, “Let me tell you what is dangerous and wrong — condoning the actions of Kermit Gosnell.” "

Are these people only capable of thinking in extremes? Protecting a womans right to choose is condoning that scumbag Gosnell? Is every abortion provider Kermit Gosnell?

Dave

[merrylander]

Dave what is really wrong here is men's attitudes towards women. When Florence told friends that she was going to marry a Canadian they said :Don't do it they are all male chauvinists". I was here six months when I finally discovered what those words meant.

What are we up to 26,000 cases of sexuall assult in the services last year, probably going higher this year. The does not include the civilian count. There is an old Jewish saying,

“God did not create woman from man's head, that he should command her, nor from his feet, that she should be his slave, but rather from his side, that she should be near his heart”

When we were married I had the word "obey" removed from her vows. This accomplished, intelligent woman was supposed to obey me? - not bloody likely. Besides intelligent, accompished women are such a delight.

All the flap last week about Ms. Richmann and the professor who said education would be wasted on her as she would likely get married and have children. So raising our children is a job for the uneducated? I personally think most men are scared s**tless of educated and accomplished women. So anything the can do to "keep them in their place" is quite allright.

Sorry I was raised to treat a woman like a lady, even if she was not a lady.

/soapbox off/

[BlueStreak]

Dave what is really wrong here is men's attitudes towards women. When Florence told friends that she was going to marry a Canadian they said :Don't do it they are all male chauvinists". I was here six months when I finally discovered what those words meant.

What are we up to 26,000 cases of sexuall assult in the services last year, probably going higher this year. The does not include the civilian count. There is an old Jewish saying,

“God did not create woman from man's head, that he should command her, nor from his feet, that she should be his slave, but rather from his side, that she should be near his heart”

When we were married I had the word "obey" removed from her vows. This accomplished, intelligent woman was supposed to obey me? - not bloody likely. Besides intelligent, accompished women are such a delight.

All the flap last week about Ms. Richmann and the professor who said education would be wasted on her as she would likely get married and have children. So raising our children is a job for the uneducated? I personally think most men are scared s**tless of educated and accomplished women. So anything the can do to "keep them in their place" is quite allright.

Sorry I was raised to treat a woman like a lady, even if she was not a lady.

/soapbox off/

I once had a guy tell me he preferred "..stupid women. They're more easily controlled." He quickly found out that both his wife and his girlfriend were more than smart enough to realize what he really thought of them.

It wasn't pretty.

Dave

[Dondilion]

Although there are a number of repub nuts, we cannot ignore Kermit Gosnell.

A continuous conversation on abortion is necessary.

[bobabode]

Although there are a number of repub nuts, we cannot ignore Kermit Gosnell.

A continuous conversation on abortion is necessary.

Who's ignoring him? He's up on first degree murder charges. :confused:

[merrylander]

Although there are a number of repub nuts, we cannot ignore Kermit Gosnell.

A continuous conversation on abortion is necessary.

And that conversation should only take place between a woman and her doctor. No one died and appointed me God.

Gosnell was guilty of incompetence and pure greed and he will pay for it.

[Dondilion]

And that conversation should only take place between a woman and her doctor. No one died and appointed me God.

Gosnell was guilty of incompetence and pure greed and he will pay for it.

A conversation which implies morality, ethics etc must include others.

[JBS...]

And that conversation should only take place between a woman and her doctor. No one died and appointed me God.

Gosnell was guilty of incompetence and pure greed and he will pay for it.

Gosnell was found guilty of three counts of first-degree murder... Thats a far cry from incompetence and greed.

[barbara]

A conversation which implies morality, ethics etc must include others.

No it doesn't need to include others. This is a personal decision between patient and doctor or anyone else the patient wishes to include.

We don't demand any more from people that are making other health care decisions, there is no reason to treat this any different.

[MikeG22]

I like how gosnell is the poster child now for the pro-life agenda. They managed to find the biggest piece of garbage and label him as the norm to push their cause. Then again that is the normal procedure for agendas on both sides.

The politician talking about in utero masturbation is about as credible as the "legitimate rape" a-hole. Those out of touch politicians make me so sick.

[JBS...]

No it doesn't need to include others. This is a personal decision between patient and doctor or anyone else the patient wishes to include.

We don't demand any more from people that are making other health care decisions, there is no reason to treat this any different.

Seeing how his comments are based on Kermit Gosnell....

Who speaks for the child born alive as a result of a botched abortion?

wouldn't this child be considered a patient at this point?

or is it still just a personal decision between patient and doctor?

[barbara]

Seeing how his comments are based on Kermit Gosnell....

Who speaks for the child born alive as a result of a botched abortion?

wouldn't this child be considered a patient at this point?

or is it still just a personal decision between patient and doctor?

JBS, I see your point. My comment was meant for legal procedures... I guess I veered off topic....
Thanks for clarification and keeping discussion on topic.

[merrylander]

A conversation which implies morality, ethics etc must include others.


Boy you are sure determined to be a busybody aren't you. As long as what other people do is legal it is quite simpl none of my damn business. If I am engaged ib some legal practice that others consider immoral and they stick their nose in it might leave here bleeding. In my first marriage we practiced birth control. Now the Catholic church considers that immoral, but sine we were not of that religion thet did not interfere.

I am sorry but whether there is or is not morality involved it is her morality and it is not my place to define her morals, I have quite enough to do looking after my own. I have no intention to stick my nose into other peoples lives. If I were to insist that she bear to term then I would have a responsibility to support the child.

As long as the procedure is legal and performed in a proper clinice. The Gosnell affair was a place that the autorities should have shut down ages ago. It is hardly the poster child for Roe v Wade.

[merrylander]

Gosnell was found guilty of three counts of first-degree murder... Thats a far cry from incompetence and greed.

And the state which did not shut him down earlier could have prevented thos murders. But it all started with greed and incompetence.

[merrylander]

Seeing how his comments are based on Kermit Gosnell....

Who speaks for the child born alive as a result of a botched abortion?

wouldn't this child be considered a patient at this point?

or is it still just a personal decision between patient and doctor?

He opened with Gosnell but then veered off to his 'continuing conversation'

The Gosnell affair was as much the fault of the state inspections or lack thereof.

Look it really is simple if you disapprove of abortion don;t have one. Oh sorry I forgot, you couldn't possibly need one, even if raped.:rolleyes:

Odd but I did not see you or Dondillion getting upset regaarding the sexuall attacks on our service women or on just women in geneal, why would that be I wonder?

[mpholland]

I find the abortion debate nauseating. The people sending a bunch of kids to other countries to kill our "enemies", often even civilian ones, have this huge moral dilema about terminating an unwanted pregnancy, usually very early on. I am sure anybody that has ever eaten an egg doesn't mistake it for a chicken.

[BlueStreak]

Gosnell was found guilty of three counts of first-degree murder... Thats a far cry from incompetence and greed.

Yes it is and I hope he fries. But, what the Gosnell case has to do with anyone else is beyond me.

Dave

[Rex E.]

I find the abortion debate nauseating. The people sending a bunch of kids to other countries to kill our "enemies", often even civilian ones, have this huge moral dilema about terminating an unwanted pregnancy, usually very early on. I am sure anybody that has ever eaten an egg doesn't mistake it for a chicken.

Bam!

...

[BlueStreak]

The politician talking about in utero masturbation is about as credible as the "legitimate rape" a-hole. Those out of touch politicians make me so sick.

WTF? How did that one get past me? Who is this weirdo that's running his mouth off about fetuses jerking off?

Dave

[BlueStreak]

I find the abortion debate nauseating. The people sending a bunch of kids to other countries to kill our "enemies", often even civilian ones, have this huge moral dilema about terminating an unwanted pregnancy, usually very early on. I am sure anybody that has ever eaten an egg doesn't mistake it for a chicken.

Remember the idiots claiming the egg is human, because once it is fertilized it becomes a person?

I suppose we should try to "rescue" every menstruated egg with emergency insemination to "save human lives", under that premise? Perhaps we should require lonely men to report to "Unwanted Spermatazoa Depositories" when the urge strikes them, to gather the necessary fluids for such rescue missions?:p

Of all the planets capable of sustaining life, why was I born on this spherical madhouse?

Dave

[BlueStreak]

I find the abortion debate nauseating. The people sending a bunch of kids to other countries to kill our "enemies", often even civilian ones, have this huge moral dilema about terminating an unwanted pregnancy, usually very early on. I am sure anybody that has ever eaten an egg doesn't mistake it for a chicken.

Of course. We have to make sure every working class pregnancy comes to term so we have more slaves and cannon fodder to exploit further down the road.

See how that works? Lovely, isn't it?

Dave

[Rajoo]

Total number of high school dropouts annually 3,030,000
Number of high school students who drop out each day 8,300

Should we not focus our energy on these kids rather than unborn fetuses?

[Dondilion]

People are very uncomfortable about abortion. They do not want to talk about it. They get real defensive and antagonistic ;even nice people.

Why is this?

I believe the real reason is:

We are not sure about the fetus. We agonise about it and sometimes it is convenient to couch our feelings in semantics.

[BlueStreak]

Total number of high school dropouts annually 3,030,000
Number of high school students who drop out each day 8,300

Should we not focus our energy on these kids rather than unborn fetuses?

That would make sense, now wouldn't it? No, instead the same people wish to cut money for public education. Then, when we produce more dropouts or graduates that can't read, they scream about all of these illiterates ending up on welfare.................because we've let all the basic labor jobs go overseas. But, that's okay too because outsourcing saves rich people money so they can create more jobs...............somewhere else, with all the profits they've stashed in foreign accounts.

What do we do with all the unemployed Americans?

This is where drumming up an excuse for the next war comes into play..............

Dave

[mpholland]

People are very uncomfortable about abortion. They do not want to talk about it. They get real defensive and antagonistic ;even nice people.

Why is this?

I believe the real reason is:

We are not sure about the fetus. We agonise about it and sometimes it is convenient to couch our feelings in semantics.

I am not uncomfortable with it at all. I'm a man and it is really none of my business, but I really get tired of hearing about it. Why does it keep coming up? I guess the GOP really never wants to win another election. America will never be less pro-choice, only more. I got no dog in the fight there, but hows about campaigning on some issues that don't alienate voters?

[Dondilion]

I am not uncomfortable with it at all. I'm a man and it is really none of my business, but I really get tired of hearing about it. Why does it keep coming up? I guess the GOP really never wants to win another election. America will never be less pro-choice, only more. I got no dog in the fight there, but hows about campaigning on some issues that don't alienate voters?

So you have no input in the fetus?

[BlueStreak]

I am not uncomfortable with it at all. I'm a man and it is really none of my business, but I really get tired of hearing about it. Why does it keep coming up? I guess the GOP really never wants to win another election. America will never be less pro-choice, only more. I got no dog in the fight there, but hows about campaigning on some issues that don't alienate voters?

It's a hot button issue that propels a certain base into the voting booths.

There are certain aspects about the abortion issue that bother me..........

But, I am not a single issue voter.

Dave

[barbara]

People are very uncomfortable about abortion. They do not want to talk about it. They get real defensive and antagonistic ;even nice people.

Why is this?

I believe the real reason is:

We are not sure about the fetus. We agonise about it and sometimes it is convenient to couch our feelings in semantics.

Uncomfortable about abortion?
How uncomfortable are the people who use the issue as political leverage? Seems to me the abortion issue has become the comfortable old shoe politicians put on for the purpose of gaining votes and stirring up emotions on both side of the aisle.

[merrylander]

People are very uncomfortable about abortion. They do not want to talk about it. They get real defensive and antagonistic ;even nice people.

Why is this?

I believe the real reason is:

We are not sure about the fetus. We agonise about it and sometimes it is convenient to couch our feelings in semantics.

Not in the least uncomfortable with as it is highly unlikely that I or my wife will ever need avail ourselves of the proceedure.

What I am extremely uncomfortable with is the male desire to control women, uncomfortable to the extent that I am ashamed of my gender.

It all started with the fable of Adam and Eve, poor Eve took all the blame. Then it was Lot's wife next. Relax guys they are a real delight if you accept them on equal terms. As the poet said "A thing of beauty and a joy forever." although I am not too happy with the word thing.

You must wake up to the fact that people are our greatest natural resource and more than half of that resource is female. What to do with a resource, to use an old English word, you husband it and develop it - or let it develop itself to its maximum potential.

About the fetus, to be clinical up until the seventh month it cannot survive outside the uterus without massive intervention. You can look at that as being the way God or nature designed the process - take your pick.

In another sense if you feel that a woman is using abortion as a form of birth control then you have never witnessed an abortion. But even if she was would you want her raising children?

People must be responsible for their actions - if you force a woman to term the the child is all yours, you feed it and raise it.

As to agonizing over the fetus, yes my first wife and I probably would have had she been able to bear one. Instead she agonizeed over being infertile to the point it destroyed that marriage. Couples who want children will be devastated by a miscarriage - but sometimes nature self-aborts.

Face it, there is enough hate and rage and violence in this sorry old world, let's not visit more on each other

[JJIII]

Not to pick nits Rob, but check this out.

http://www.online-literature.com/donne/463/

[bobabode]

Not to pick nits Rob, but check this out.

http://www.online-literature.com/donne/463/

Poesy?

[BlueStreak]

Not to pick nits Rob, but check this out.

http://www.online-literature.com/donne/463/

Wow, that really knocked me back a few yards.:confused:

Dave

[merrylander]

Not to pick nits Rob, but check this out.

http://www.online-literature.com/donne/463/

He did write,

"Some shape of beauty moves away the pall"

I married that 'shape of beauty' near thirty years ago. Yes I am aware that he saw beauty everywhere I but wish I could have that vision today.

If you want poetry you really should read John Donne.

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/