Jimmy Carter: George Zimmerman jury ‘right’

[whell]

“I think the jury made the right decision based on the evidence presented, because the prosecution inadvertently set the standard so high that the jury had to be convinced that it was a deliberate act by Zimmerman that he was not at all defending himself, and so forth,” Carter told Atlanta news channel WXIA. “It’s not a moral question, it’s a legal question and the American law requires that the jury listens to the evidence presented.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/jimmy-carter-george-zimmerman-verdict-94320.html

This may be the first time I've ever agreed with Jimmy Carter.

[BlueStreak]

Right. Because the law requires a jury to rule based on "Beyond a shadow of a doubt.".

But, getting off simply because there were no reliable witnesses to counter the testimony of the accused is not true innocence.

Zimmerman had no reasonable basis for beginning his pursuit in the first place.

"These assholes always get away with it."

What "assholes" and "get away with" what, Mike? What crime had Martin committed prior to that comment?

None.

Dave

[JJIII]

It is important to understand that the framers of the Constitution created a nation of laws and not men. In this, the right to trial by jury of one’s peers is provided by the Seventh Amendment to the Constitution, and it is not absolute. The jury is the trier of fact, they do not make the law; the elected legislators make the law. If a jury verdict is based upon an improper legal instruction (or if there are grounds to challenge the validity of the law), then the remedy for that is an appeal; but it is not for the jury to determine what the law should be in the case.

There is the Crux of the Biscuit.;)

[whell]

Right. Because the law requires a jury to rule based on "Beyond a shadow of a doubt.".

But, getting off simply because there were no reliable witnesses to counter the testimony of the accused is not true innocence.

Zimmerman had no reasonable basis for beginning his pursuit in the first place.

"These assholes always get away with it."

What "assholes" and "get away with" what, Mike? What crime had Martin committed prior to that comment?

None.

Dave

Debating these points is not relevant as it relates to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence in a court of law. The facts were presented in a court of law, and the defendant was still deemed "not guilty" (and you're correct: no one is proclaiming his "innocence") of a crime based on a reading of applicable law.

That's all Carter is saying. That's all I've ever said about this case, other than the accompanying hysteria, spin and railroading by some of the defendant is way over the top.

[BlueStreak]

Debating these points is not relevant as it relates to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence in a court of law. The facts were presented in a court of law, and the defendant was still deemed "not guilty" (and you're correct: no one is proclaiming his "innocence") of a crime based on a reading of applicable law.

That's all Carter is saying. That's all I've ever said about this case, other than the accompanying hysteria, spin and railroading by some of the defendant is way over the top.

I understand that. But, all I'm saying is that all is not "hysteria" or "hype" there is good reason to be found among those who are not happy with the entire episode.

I think we both know, that beyond all of the hyperbole over race, the underlying issue is the way SYG laws are handled. A grand jury was assembled and a trial demanded because Florida was ready to let the incident rest with no more than a statement from the shooter and the concurrence of local police.

Some of us believe the taking of a human life warrants deeper investigation and justification than that.

Dave

[JBS...]

Right. Because the law requires a jury to rule based on "Beyond a shadow of a doubt.".

But, getting off simply because there were no reliable witnesses to counter the testimony of the accused is not true innocence.

Zimmerman had no reasonable basis for beginning his pursuit in the first place.

"These assholes always get away with it."

What "assholes" and "get away with" what, Mike? What crime had Martin committed prior to that comment?

None.

Dave

As he stated in the opening of the 911 call that you are so hung up on....

The assholes that have been burglarizing the area and getting away with it. Seeing how how he found him suspicious was reason enough to keep an eye on him even if he did't comment a crime (yet).

"Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, it's Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

You are trying to read into this call way to hard. :rolleyes:

[BlueStreak]

I'm not going to waste my time sparring with you. It's pointless. Like explaining gravitational lensing to my dog.

Dave

[Oerets]

“I think the jury made the right decision based on the evidence presented, because the prosecution inadvertently set the standard so high that the jury had to be convinced that it was a deliberate act by Zimmerman that he was not at all defending himself, and so forth,” Carter told Atlanta news channel WXIA. “It’s not a moral question, it’s a legal question and the American law requires that the jury listens to the evidence presented.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/jimmy-carter-george-zimmerman-verdict-94320.html

This may be the first time I've ever agreed with Jimmy Carter.

When I read the article or others saying the same thing. The thought always crosses my mind of just how bad the Prosecution presented it's case. I thought it was going with less then a "A" team. Like their heart just was not in winning. But the more the one juror speaks out the more it seems to have been decided before any evidence in trial.


Barney

[bobabode]

The other elephant in the room is the dismay and deep sense of betrayal felt by many at the recent Robert's court decision to gut the Voting Rights Act.

[icenine]

What is gravitational lensing? Is that something to do with a speaker horn?

[merrylander]

As he stated in the opening of the 911 call that you are so hung up on....

The assholes that have been burglarizing the area and getting away with it. Seeing how how he found him suspicious was reason enough to keep an eye on him even if he did't comment a crime (yet).

"Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, it's Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

You are trying to read into this call way to hard. :rolleyes:

JJ he sould have left it to the police, instead he was a self appointed gun happy vigilante. He was not autorozed by Neigbourhood Watch (I was at one time and I know their rules).

Yes the jury observed the nicities of the law, and we are a nation of laws, That does not even imply that we are a nation of justice, because we are not.

[Rajoo]

So let us accept that justice was not served because of an incompetent prosecution. The Martin family did not get to select the prosecutors. Zimmerman raised money ($0.5M?) and appointed his defense attorneys. Martin family lost and there is nothing they can do other than a civil lawsuit as consolation prize. Now the jury will award the family untold millions of dollars (not their money) and wind up getting little to nothing.
What do we call this?

[merrylander]

The other elephant in the room is the dismay and deep sense of betrayal felt by many at the recent Robert's court decision to gut the Voting Rights Act.

The Robert's Court has declared itself to be irrelevant, having no command of the English language and totally at the beck and call of the Chamvber of Commerce.

[JJIII]

JJ he sould have left it to the police, instead he was a self appointed gun happy vigilante. He was not autorozed by Neigbourhood Watch (I was at one time and I know their rules).

Yes the jury observed the nicities of the law, and we are a nation of laws, That does not even imply that we are a nation of justice, because we are not.

I think you meant JB. I get in enough trouble around here on my own.;)

[Dondilion]

I agree wholeheartedly with Carter that is why from the beginning I did not invest much emotion in this.

[noonereal]

There is the Crux of the Biscuit.;)

Really?

and this is why the right is cumming in it's pants at this verdict?

lol is all I have to say.

[noonereal]

That's all I've ever said about this case, .

ONFG, yeah, that is all you have ever said.

BTW, the jury was 3 guilty and 3 non guilty. The non guilty had the more forceful personalities. Such is the nature of "the best legal system on earth."

[Rajoo]

ONFG, yeah, that is all you have ever said.

BTW, the jury was 3 guilty and 3 non guilty. The non guilty had the more forceful personalities. Such is the nature of "the best legal system on earth."

Or fear of retribution.

[Zeke]

Seeing how how he found him suspicious was reason enough to keep an eye on him even if he did't comment a crime (yet).

And why, precisely, did he "find him suspicious?" Was it:

1. Skittles?
2. Hoodie?
3. Black skin?

Oh yeah, that's justified... :rolleyes:

The intellectually bankrupt superficiality of self-righteous conservative/fearful types makes anyone willing to actually reason somewhat queasy...

[noonereal]

And why, precisely, did he "find him suspicious?" Was it:

1. Skittles?
2. Hoodie?
3. Black skin?

Oh yeah, that's justified... :rolleyes:

The intellectually bankrupt superficiality of self-righteous conservative/fearful types makes anyone willing to actually reason somewhat queasy...

The correct answer is 4, hoodie and black.

[bobabode]

Debating these points is not relevant as it relates to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence in a court of law. The facts were presented in a court of law, and the defendant was still deemed "not guilty" (and you're correct: no one is proclaiming his "innocence") of a crime based on a reading of applicable law.

That's all Carter is saying. That's all I've ever said about this case, other than the accompanying hysteria, spin and railroading by some of the victim is way over the top.

Fixed that for ya, Whell.

[whell]

ONFG, yeah, that is all you have ever said.

BTW, the jury was 3 guilty and 3 non guilty. The non guilty had the more forceful personalities. Such is the nature of "the best legal system on earth."

I think the acronym is actually OMFG, noone. And last I checked, the jury deliberated the facts against the law and ultimately changed their minds. I hate to break this to you, but having served on a jury, this is how things work inside the jury room.

[noonereal]

I think the acronym is actually OMFG, noone. And last I checked, the jury deliberated the facts against the law and ultimately changed their minds. I hate to break this to you, but having served on a jury, this is how things work inside the jury room.

We all have served on a jury Whell, get over yourself.

What I said stands.

Learn, don't contradict.

[whell]

We all have served on a jury Whell, get over yourself.

What I said stands.

Learn, don't contradict.

LOL. You are full of yourself, I'll give you that much.

[Zeke]

Learn, don't contradict.

Learning requires Whell's ability to reason.

I wouldn't hold your breath...

[noonereal]

LOL. You are full of yourself, I'll give you that much.

Nope, just straight up. ;)

[Charles]

7 r“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 sFor with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and twith the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but udo not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Sir Chas

[BlueStreak]

When I read the article or others saying the same thing. The thought always crosses my mind of just how bad the Prosecution presented it's case. I thought it was going with less then a "A" team. Like their heart just was not in winning. But the more the one juror speaks out the more it seems to have been decided before any evidence in trial.


Barney

Right. Anyone who wanted to see Zimmerman pay for his stupidity is being "hysterical" or "irrational", but a juror states "...we felt Georges heart was in the right place." is not basing her decision on emotion.......not at all.:rolleyes:

Dave

[merrylander]

7 r“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 sFor with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and twith the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but udo not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Sir Chas

Then again - "as ye sow so shall ye reap":)

[piece-itpete]

Hallelujah, Sir Chas has found religion. Episcopalian I presume? :D

Peter

[whell]

Learning requires Whell's ability to reason.

I wouldn't hold your breath...

No, please Zeke. Hold your breath.

[Zeke]

No, please Zeke. Hold your breath.

Why? I have no difficulty reasoning. :rolleyes:

Or, are you proclaiming that I wished harm upon you for consideration that you should hold yours?

My error: I wasn't aware that cancerous tumors required respiration.

[icenine]

Hallelujah, Sir Chas has found religion. Episcopalian I presume? :D

Peter

Well he sounds more Pabst Blue Ribbon Southern Baptist to me;):D

[whell]

Why? I have no difficulty emoting / blathering / being petulant / being boorish.


Fixed it for you.

[bobabode]

then again - "as ye sow so shall ye reap":)



Bang....

[Charles]

Well he sounds more Pabst Blue Ribbon Southern Baptist to me;):D

I'm simply a poor Methodist, attempting to wash the log from thy own eye with Silver Bullets.

Chas

[Zeke]

Fixed it for you.

You forgot WINNING.

[noonereal]

Well he sounds more Pabst Blue Ribbon Southern Baptist to me;):D

Who's buying? :rolleyes:

[icenine]

I'm simply a poor Methodist, attempting to wash the log from thy own eye with Silver Bullets.

Chas

How can you fit a can of Coors Light and a Log into my eye?:)

[icenine]

Who's buying? :rolleyes:

Since I am furloughed I will get the Pabst. You can buy the good stuff (Like Murphy's Irish Stout);)

[noonereal]

Since I am furloughed I will get the Pabst. You can buy the good stuff (Like Murphy's Irish Stout);)

Murphy's Irish Stout!

That's my main squeeze. :)

[Zeke]

Boulevard Single Wide IPA.

[bobabode]

'bout time the thread got derailed by beer. :D

[Oerets]

Someone say BEER!



Barney

[JJIII]

Now all we need is BACON!

[Charles]

Now all we need is BACON!

Beer, it's not just for breakfast anymore.

I vote for ribeyes.

Chas

[bobabode]

Beer, it's not just for breakfast anymore.

I vote for ribeyes.

Chas

Seconded and thirded...I'll fire up the commie Kamado and a bring a pitcher of mint juleps.:)

[JJIII]

Bacon wrapped ribeyes?:)

[bobabode]

Bacon wrapped ribeyes?:)

Yessir! Y'all bring the salt pork bellies! I'll age up a filet skirt to wrap around the bacon wrapped ribeyes.:cool:

Warning, only mesquite lump charcoal in the commie Kamado. Bring yer own nassssty hick'ry chips.:p

[Wasillaguy]

Yessir! Y'all bring the salt pork bellies! I'll age up a filet skirt to wrap around the bacon wrapped ribeyes.:cool:

Warning, only mesquite lump charcoal in the commie Kamado. Bring yer own nassssty hick'ry chips.:p

Not so fast you bunch a drunkards. Apparently Obama ain't done stirring the melting pot yet.

[noonereal]

Not so fast you bunch a drunkards. Apparently Obama ain't done stirring the melting pot yet.

Good..

[piece-itpete]

Black and tan can pour and settle together.

Pete

[Oerets]

For those that just don't get what the President was trying to point out. Think how you feel when if alone in an area surrounded by people of different race, ethnicity, language for starters. Everywhere you look makes feel out of place. Not a nice feeling is it. Then add at night or wife and kids with you. Uncomfortable.

Should not be this way we are better then this I hope towards each other. But first the problem needs to be realized by all in order to then address. The problem as I see it is one of education and immersion of different groups in our country of many types. If one only stays with their group it is then when misunderstandings happen.



Barney

[bobabode]

Not so fast you bunch a drunkards. Apparently Obama ain't done stirring the melting pot yet.

Bring a salmon, you fondue suckin' fish head. :D