How much should we pay?

[Fast_Eddie]

I'm just curious. There is a huge movement in this country to lower taxes. I assume the people attending these Tea Parties have done some research to back up their claim that taxes are too high. So what is the figure they've come up with? How much should we be paying? At what rate of taxes would they say "that's perfect"?

Or, do they not know and are they a bunch of hypocrites who hate America and are only motivated by personal greed?

So which is it? Show me the figures that say lower taxes are best for my country and I'll be out at the next local Tea Party flying a flag and yelling with the crowd. But absent any figures, I'm going to call BS.

Put our Country First. What is best for America? That's what I want.

[merrylander]

Ed you already know they are hypocrits, this country has the lowest taxes in the world. The problem is simple greed.

[Fast_Eddie]

Ed you already know they are hypocrits, this country has the lowest taxes in the world. The problem is simple greed.

That is my belief, but I stand by with an open mind. I'm sure one of our Tea Pary attending friends will step up with the math soon so we can make an objective decision. I do believe that many of them love America as much as I and I'm sure they would not rush to a decision about such an important thing as funding our government witout first working out how it should be done.

Take care,

Ed

[hillbilly]

I'm going to tell it like it is, IMO,based on my own dealings.

Yes, we damn sure do need health care reform, but what I'm to define as health care reform is not what alot of folks may see fit. Yes, I want to see a change, but not the way other may like.

I have health issues myself, but I'm not going to get into that. I will use my daughter as an example though, and here goes.

When our daughter ( age 6, going on 7 at the time ) broke both bones in her arm playing in a softball game was treated like a piece of shit, thats when I decided our system has went strait to hell. We do, and always have had insurance that we pay dearly each month for but that didn't matter. When we took our daughter to the ER with both bones broken in her arm, one being through the skin and her arm was bent 90 degree between her wrist and elbo, she was treated with no respect ... even though we handed the hosp our insurance card and ''paid up front our 100.00 copay'' for using the ER.

Am I pissed that we pay a 100.00 co-pay if we must use the ER? Hell no. I do not have a problem with that.

But what I do have a problem with is the fact that ''we by-God paid for service'' just to be pushed to the side to someone who couldn't speak a damn word of English, someone who had no fucking ID of any kind, and this someone had no money nor insurance. It was a girl in her mid 20's that ''walked in the ER'' and a nurse came out in the hall to translate what the girl was trying to say to the lady behind the desk. The nurse said the girl had slipped and fell on her tail bone and she thinks she may have broke her tail bone.

OK, so the doctor has our daughter in the hall of the ER pulling and twisting her arm bones back strait .. kid is screaming in the ER hallway beside an open room full of people as he's re-setting her arm and then casting it before walking away.... all while the fucking Mexican gets X-rayed before our daughter and gets a private room while our daughter is treated like and animal in front of everyone ( even though our daughter was paid for up front and was there nearly an hour before the Mexican came in with no ID, money nor insurance .. and needed a translater to boot ).

I raised hell with the ER doctor for not taking care of our daughter in private rather than in front of everyone in the hallways double doors that everyone is walking in and out of to and from the ER from outside. He flat told me that the hosp don't make the laws, but must follow them and they must admit the hispanics into the ER with out a thing.

I told him we paid, and our daughter shoulda been in a room for medical service of that nature and not treated in front of a waiting room in the hallway. You know what he said to me? Well lemme tell ya what he said to me. He said , '' sir, I don't like it a bit better than you do, but the fact is they must be treated very well by law, and they can also sue us easier than you can ''.


My point is that we should not be spending a G-damn penny in taxes to take care of ANYONE other than tax paying English speaking citizens !!!! And ME, MYSELF AND I do not support anything otherwise!!!

[noonereal]

My point is that we should not be spending a G-damn penny in taxes to take care of ANYONE other than tax paying English speaking citizens !!!! And ME, MYSELF AND I do not support anything otherwise!!!

That's one hateful post. :(

[Fast_Eddie]

Uhhhhhh, maybe I missed it. I was asking about tax rates. How much we should pay and such. Did I miss...? Uh. Nevermind. I knew there was no answer to my question. "Fuck everyone, give me more and screw the rest. Anarchy now!"

[Sandy G]

Yeah, but he has a point. We simply cannot continue to provide basically free health care for every illegal alien (Read:"Mexican") who comes over here, drops a baby & is therefore entitled to all the rights & privaleges of an American. It is simply bankrupting smaller, rural counties. And let's not even think about the crime problems these byrds cause-My local Sheriff's Dept told me they don't really investigate/do anything about "illegal" crimes unless there's significant property damage or injury. They're a small dept, & simply don't have the resources to do otherwise. I believe in helping other people, but not to the extent of hurting yrself in the process.

[Fast_Eddie]

Yeah, but he has a point. We simply cannot continue to provide basically free health care for every illegal alien (Read:"Mexican") who comes over here, drops a baby & is therefore entitled to all the rights & privaleges of an American. It is simply bankrupting smaller, rural counties. And let's not even think about the crime problems these byrds cause-My local Sheriff's Dept told me they don't really investigate/do anything about "illegal" crimes unless there's significant property damage or injury. They're a small dept, & simply don't have the resources to do otherwise. I believe in helping other people, but not to the extent of hurting yrself in the process.

Maybe he does have a point. Maybe you do to. I don't want to trivialize or minimize that point. Immigration is an important issue facing America- I completely agree that something should be done.

So, what tax rate would be fair? I don't want to offend anyone, but this isn't an aswer to my quesiton. This is "I don't have any answer so I'm going to change the subject with an emotional plea".

So, 40%? 46%? 38%? 12%?

The point I'm making is that people are out protesting something that they have no actual thought about and they are being misled by people who know better. And it is not in the best interest of our country. If people are out protesting the action of our government claiming their paying taxes that are too high, it is appropriate to ask them what taxes should be, right? So how much?

[HatchetJack]

Good post about the ER's Hillbilly. That is happening far too often and is what
will start happening at all medical clinics if treatment is free and why this
healthcare reform should be defeated.
I dont think those "teaparties" are so much a protest over what the tax rates
are currently but what Obama has promised they may be. Its more of a
protest against the current environment for trying to generate an income
against competition from third world countries. That and a government
growing at a pace we cant sustain with current tax rates and revenue.
Write a check for 30 or 40 thousand to the IRS and tell me you trust that
they will spend it wisely.:mad:

[Fast_Eddie]

I dont think those "teaparties" are so much a protest over what the tax rates
are currently but what Obama has promised they may be.

Specifically? What exactly is it he promised that they are protesting? And I stand by my question- if they think Obama's answer (whatever answer to whatever question it is they are protesting) is wrong, I assume they have the right answer. What is that answer and where is the math to back it up? And is it an answer they reached in the best interest of the country, or are they just selfish?

[Fast_Eddie]

Write a check for 30 or 40 thousand to the IRS and tell me you trust that they will spend it wisely.:mad:

And for the record, I don't "write a check" but over the course of a year, I *do* pay more than $30k. And I think they need to raise taxes and pay the bills.

[Boreas]

Good post about the ER's Hillbilly. That is happening far too often and is what
will start happening at all medical clinics if treatment is free and why this
healthcare reform should be defeated.

If providing healthcare for everyone that needs it will overtax our health care system the answer is to increase the capacity of the system, not to restrict access.

None of the proposals being considered by Congress call for free health care. You've been lied to, Jack. You've been hoodwinked by the people you think have your interests at heart.

I dont think those "teaparties" are so much a protest over what the tax rates are currently but what Obama has promised they may be.

Obama promised to lower taxes on people making less than $250,000 and raise taxes on people making more than that. That's what he promised. Is that what you don't like?

Its more of a protest against the current environment for trying to generate an income against competition from third world countries.

Reagan did that and every president since has continued it. It's the "free trade" that right wingers are always promoting.

But they have an answer for you. In a recent Wall Street Journal the suggestion was made that American workers are greedy. They need to learn to accept the sort of wages that workers in other countries, like China, accept. That's the way to make American industry competitive again.

Right.

That and a government growing at a pace we cant sustain with current tax rates and revenue.

Republicans are responsible for that too. They've been cutting taxes to unsustainable levels since Reagan. Bush continued cutting taxes while growing government at a tremendous rate.

Write a check for 30 or 40 thousand to the IRS and tell me you trust that they will spend it wisely.:mad:

Yeah, you're mad alright. The trouble is you're mad at the wrong people.

John

[Charles]

Tax the rich @ 90%. Hell, tax everybody @ 100%. We still don't have the money to cover our bets.

Hell, just tax everyone @ 200% and let central planning clean up the mess. That's the game plan.

Chas

[Fast_Eddie]

Tax the rich @ 90%. Hell, tax everybody @ 100%. We still don't have the money to cover our bets.

Hell, just tax everyone @ 200% and let central planning clean up the mess. That's the game plan.

Chas

That really isn't true. Or doesn't have to be. Just look at what happened during the Clinton years. He called it the "Peace Dividend". And it worked. And we paid more in taxes.

But it doesn't matter. That kind of defeatist attitude doesn't help anything or anyone. What do we spend our money on? Social Security, Medicade/Medicare and the Military. I'm not in favor of cutting the first two. We can cut the third if we're smart and we start now. Bin Laden's plan was to lure us into a war that would bankrupt us. It's working. We need to stop.

Okay, that won't get fixed tomorrow. But we need to start working on it. In the mean time, we need to a tax to pay for the wars. At least get back to where we were eight years ago.

[noonereal]

None of the proposals being considered by Congress call for free health care.




If fact the proposals call for quite the opposite.

take some time and look check into it.

forget about Beck

[HatchetJack]

I dont have a dog in this race. Both parties want to shake me down and send
my money elsewhere. No one stands up for the middle class well except
maybe those teapartiers. Both sides better listen to that bunch.

[noonereal]

No one stands up for the middle class well except
maybe those teapartiers.

:rolleyes:, wish they new what they were doing then

[finnbow]

No one stands up for the middle class well except
maybe those teapartiers. Both sides better listen to that bunch.

If they had a coherent argument, I'd be the first to listen. To me, their message is "I'm angry, but I'm not sure at whom and for what reason. The world is too complicated for me to understand and voice a cogent opinion. Therefore, I'll just scream a bunch of non sequiturs and get my face on Fox News."

[Charles]

That really isn't true. Or doesn't have to be. Just look at what happened during the Clinton years. He called it the "Peace Dividend". And it worked. And we paid more in taxes.

But it doesn't matter. That kind of defeatist attitude doesn't help anything or anyone. What do we spend our money on? Social Security, Medicade/Medicare and the Military. I'm not in favor of cutting the first two. We can cut the third if we're smart and we start now. Bin Laden's plan was to lure us into a war that would bankrupt us. It's working. We need to stop.

Okay, that won't get fixed tomorrow. But we need to start working on it. In the mean time, we need to a tax to pay for the wars. At least get back to where we were eight years ago.

I've also said that OBL's plan was to lure us into a war which would bankrupt us, but let me clarify that. OBL's plan was to show the Middle East that the United States was a paper tiger and unwilling to confront the Radical Islamist's for any length of time. He is a true revolutionary (faith based if you want to call it that) who intends to remake the order of things in the Middle East. As the US supports the status quo in the Middle East, we must be discredited in order for his followers to change the order of things. What they need is hope, and by defeating the US, they have proven that their goals are possible.

But that's just another theory...it's far more complex than that.

As to spending, I am totally bewildered. We have woken up in Vegas, with a horrible hangover, so far in debt that we'll never be able to pay it back, and we're gonna have to put more on the card just to get home.

Somewhere, somehow, we've fucked up big time.

So how do we get from point A to Point B? Go back to the Constitutional mandate that all money will be backed by gold or silver? Fat chance of that happening. Look at the gold market, I don't think that much gold exists...it's just more pie in the sky.

Continue with our currency based on debt? As bad as it is, we're so far beyond the Rubicon that it's the only option left. Other than for us to change the order of things.

Boo, boo, and hiss!!! As much as I dislike it, I'm all in favor of kicking the same shitty can down the same shitty road for as long as we can. I have something to lose.

The problem is, we're coming up with a considerable amount of people who have nothing to lose. They will be the ones to affect the order of things. We need to put them back to work, give them something to lose...make them part of the status quo.

Kind of mindless ramblings on my part....I'll call it a nite.

Chas

[Charles]

I dont have a dog in this race. Both parties want to shake me down and send
my money elsewhere. No one stands up for the middle class well except
maybe those teapartiers. Both sides better listen to that bunch.

Ding, Ding....give that man a cigar!!!!!

The Tea Party bunch doesn't much care for either party. And I don't either.

Give 'em time to evolve, can a 3rd party be any worse the the other two? They are a grassroots bunch.

Chas

[HatchetJack]

We should rise up and evict them all from power and start over. Well I take
that back, I'm starting to like this obama feller. He came out tonight and
said he was sending 30,000 more troups after Bin Ladens head. Damn right,
lock and load, lets roll.

[Fast_Eddie]

We should rise up and evict them all from power and start over. Well I take
that back, I'm starting to like this obama feller. He came out tonight and
said he was sending 30,000 more troups after Bin Ladens head. Damn right,
lock and load, lets roll.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on it. I was in favor of the mission in Afghanistan but got pretty put off of the whole thing when it became clear that catching OBL wasn't much of a priority. I thought I knew why we were there, but it got pretty cloudy for a while.

We'll give it a shot and see what happens. I bashed Bush pretty hard for the "surge" but I'll be damned if it didn't work. I was wrong on that one. Probably against it because I was against the whole Iraq thing from the get go. Tell you what though, in 18 months- if we ain't starting to wind that thing down there's going to be hell to pay.

[BlueStreak]

Would somebody just answer the &%$@# question?

Eddie, they succeeded in distracting you.

DAMNIT SON, FOCUS!

Now, I'm gonna have a beer and go to bed.

You idiots are giving me a headache.

Dave

[Fast_Eddie]

Eddie, they succeeded in distracting you.

DAMNIT SON, FOCUS!


Quite right. Sorry. Back to the matter at hand...

[merrylander]

The matter at hand is really simple, like finnbow wrote they are just a bunch of angry wingnuts with no real ideas. If you collected the whole damn crew that showed up in DC I doubt that they had a collective IQ of 50. Lots of Cut this, cut that, don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that man behind the tree.

[Charles]

The matter at hand is really simple, like finnbow wrote they are just a bunch of angry wingnuts with no real ideas. If you collected the whole damn crew that showed up in DC I doubt that they had a collective IQ of 50. Lots of Cut this, cut that, don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that man behind the tree.

I disagree.

I see them as a collection of people who have legitimate concerns about the direction of the government. Perhaps unorganized and without a platform at the moment, but hardly a collection of dolts.

But I will admit, the one's who agree to a sound bite aren't as smooth as our practiced masters.

Chas

[finnbow]

I disagree.

I see them as a collection of people who have legitimate concerns about the direction of the government. Perhaps unorganized and without a platform at the moment, but hardly a collection of dolts.

But I will admit, the one's who agree to a sound bite aren't as smooth as our practiced masters.

Chas

While they may have legitimate concerns (and this is arguable), if they cannot articulate them in a cogent and convincing fashion, they will continue to be perceived as a bunch of "dolts." Any legitimate concerns are lost within their "Obama is a Kenyan/Muslim/Indonesian/terrorist/Nazi/communist/terrorist" and death panel silliness.

[Boreas]

I disagree.

I see them as a collection of people who have legitimate concerns about the direction of the government. Perhaps unorganized and without a platform at the moment, but hardly a collection of dolts.

Hey, Chas -

You clearly have a perspective on and knowledge of these people that I don't. Would you mind giving me a rundown on what some of those concerns might be?

Every day, it seems, a new Tea Party candidate appears, either to challenge an incumbent Republican or to run as a third party candidate. I can't even figure what these people are running on beyond allegiance to Glenn Beck.

You've got one in your neck of the woods. A former aide to Dick Armey, Liz Lauber, wants to unseat Todd Akin in Missouri's 2nd District. Her entire platform seems to be about reducing taxes.

John

[hillbilly]

Hey, Chas -

You clearly have a perspective on and knowledge of these people that I don't. Would you mind giving me a rundown on what some of those concerns might be?

Every day, it seems, a new Tea Party candidate appears, either to challenge an incumbent Republican or to run as a third party candidate. I can't even figure what these people are running on beyond allegiance to Glenn Beck.

You've got one in your neck of the woods. A former aide to Dick Armey, Liz Lauber, wants to unseat Todd Akin in Missouri's 2nd District. Her entire platform seems to be about reducing taxes.

John

In Nashville ( Music City ), about two months from now, the First National Tea-Party will be held. Palin will be there, and tickets are only 549.00.

I'd be seated myself, but thats a shitload of dough to a hillbilly.

[Boreas]

In Nashville ( Music City ), about two months from now, the First National Tea-Party will be held. Palin will be there, and tickets are only 549.00.

I'd be seated myself, but thats a shitload of dough to a hillbilly.

It's a shitload of money alright. I can't see spending that much to go see any politician. It'll be interesting to see how many people attend at those prices.

John

[hillbilly]

It's a shitload of money alright. I can't see spending that much to go see any politician. It'll be interesting to see how many people attend at those prices.

John

I was wondering what if it ends up being a sellout. Each year the smartest students from each school meet up there to hold the Beta convention and since our daughter has been lucky enough to compete a few years in a row .. I've come to notice the place is BIG. If every seat is filled, it'll add up to about 3 million dollars if I'm figuring right. If so, I wonder who'll get all that money?

[BlueStreak]

While they may have legitimate concerns (and this is arguable), if they cannot articulate them in a cogent and convincing fashion, they will continue to be perceived as a bunch of "dolts." Any legitimate concerns are lost within their "Obama is a Kenyan/Muslim/Indonesian/terrorist/Nazi/communist/terrorist" and death panel silliness.

Ah! I have another thing our President is to add to my growing list!

"Indonesian".

You forgot to include "Hitler", "Stalin", "Dictator", and the latest, prior to "Indonesian"----"Fag lover".
This what my drunken, fat, and lazy Conservative Republican neighbor was calling him Friday night, "Fag Lover", over and over and over again until the idiot finally passed out. This was after he bragged on for an hour about being self-employed and uninsured. "I pay my own doctor bills. I might go broke doin' it, but that's the way it should be. That's freedom, man! I don't need that fag lover Obamas help, f**k that fag lover. I'd rather be bankrupt than have insurance if it's got that fag lovin' ni***rs name on it."

My favorite part was the one about how "freedom" is being bankrupt and buried under a pile of unpayable medical bills. What a jackass! Please tell me this country isn't full of people who think like this, would you, PLEASE?

If it weren't for the fact that he kept handing me beers as I listened to his drunken horseshit, I would have left early on.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

$549? Oh shit.

This reminds me of when all of the good ole boy wingnuts at work were headed to RuthsChris when Limbaugh was telling them how fantastic it was.
Or should I say how fantastic THE PRICES are? "Conservatives" paying $150 for a steak dinner, something that ends up in the toilet an hour later. But let a homeless man ask the tightwads for a mickey D's hamburger and watch what happens.

I wonder where THAT money was going? Let's see, what is Rush's latest contract? Wasn't it $400,000,000 over the next eight years?

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Now I've been distracted.

Would one of you "righties" answer the question, at long last?

Dave

[hillbilly]

Well since our government don't listen to how ''We The People'' want our money spent, I say we pay notta .. notta damn thing til it brings our government to a standstill ( but I do support SS and our military ). Once they say ''ok, how may we work for you'' ( AS IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ), then we could go from there after we weeded out what we do not want our money spent on and make sure they don't borrow another penny from SS. I'd start by sending every illeagal back over the border, and offer no health services to them NO MATTER WHAT and no stinkin' more amnesty to the ones who are here waiting for our government to feel sorry for them and say '' ok .. it's alright .. we gonna piss off We The People and let ya'll stay .. now go to the nearest DL testing center and they'll give ya'll some ID ''. Ya'll really wouldn't have enjoyed hearing me the day Clinton done just that. DL testing centers here were in lines to the roads.

[merrylander]

Hey Dave,


I could burn a CD with the song "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" and you could give to the guy.

[merrylander]

The Teapartygoers would be a bit more believable if they picked better spokespersons. It was the ones doing all the talking at the last DC assembly that pulled down the collective intellect.

[noonereal]

Good post about the ER's Hillbilly. That is happening far too often and is what
will start happening at all medical clinics if treatment is free and why this
healthcare reform should be defeated.


This makes no sense.
How can anything be free?
What does this have to do with healthcare reform?

Good God. :confused:

[Fast_Eddie]

Well since our government don't listen to how ''We The People'' want our money spent, I say we pay notta .. notta damn thing til it brings our government to a standstill ( but I do support SS and our military ).

Well, as a matter of fact, they *are* listening. We ("we" being the people who voted for the folks who won) voted for Health Care reform, getting serious about Global Warming and figuring out how to get out of the war mess Bush gave us. So, that's what they're doing. Sorry. It's not that they aren't listening to you. It's just that you lost.

[merrylander]

Who the hell said anything about health care being free? That sure as hell is not in the bill they are debating. Oh yeah, about illegals, to get a subsidy from the government you will need to prove your income level. To do that they will need a copy of your last tax return and SSN. Even here in MD they are finally stopping handing out driver's licenses to non citizens, at least not a regular one, it will be noted that you are non-resident.