Mission Accomplished.

[Ike Bana]

From the News of the Weird, "Can't Possibly Be True" department...

Perhaps thousands of Baghdad residents have been killed by bomb couriers who had passed through supposedly secure checkpoints that were "equipped" with useless ADE-651 bomb "detectors," but the devices were surely to be history following the April fraud conviction of the British scam artist who made $75 million selling them. (American officials had warned Iraqis for years that the ADE-651 was basically a novelty golf-ball finder.)

However, despite the debunking evidence brought out at trial, Iraqi police continue to use them, according to an October dispatch in London's The Independent, with the September death toll at nearly 1,000 from bombers who passed through checkpoints, past silent ADE-651s. Even Prime Minister al-Maliki vouches that the ADE works "up to 60 percent" of the time. (Ike's emphasis) - The Independent (London), 10-3-2013]

[donquixote99]

Deceit is the first refuge of the corrupt.

[piece-itpete]

I remember there was something like that that suckered in domestic police forces.

Pete

[Charles]

How about the guy who suckered Medicare into paying 10x the price for off the shelf penis pumps under the guise of being medical devices for ED. They finally busted him.

Personally, I didn't see that it was any worse than me having to pay the hospital $400 for a breathing machine that looked like a $10 kids toy.

Chas

[BlueStreak]

I remember going through the itemized bill of my first hernia surgery.
Apparently a roll of gauze in 1998 cost $73.

I'd hate to see what they charge today.

Dave

[merrylander]

Take your own aspirin with you.

[Charles]

I remember going through the itemized bill of my first hernia surgery.
Apparently a roll of gauze in 1998 cost $73.

I'd hate to see what they charge today.

Dave

At least they didn't use cheap gauze on you.

Chas

[donquixote99]

I remember going through the itemized bill of my first hernia surgery.
Apparently a roll of gauze in 1998 cost $73.

I'd hate to see what they charge today.

Dave

Well, hospitals do have a lot of overhead expenses....

[Charles]

Well, hospitals do have a lot of overhead expenses....

So do I, but I have a feeling that if I started charging people $5 per nail not only would I not get paid, I may well wind up in criminal court.

Chas

[donquixote99]

Overhead allocation remains the blackest of the accounting arts.

[Wasillaguy]

So do I, but I have a feeling that if I started charging people $5 per nail not only would I not get paid, I may well wind up in criminal court.

Chas

You just need to find customers who pass on the bill to an insurance company or government agency and don't care about the price of your nail.

[BlueStreak]

You just need to find customers who pass on the bill to an insurance company or government agency and don't care about the price of your nail.

You do realize hospitals overcharge to cover the cost of uninsured patients, right? The "customer" doesn't pay at all. No premium, no co-pays......nothing.

It's similar to the effect shoplifting has on retail pricing. Except, we can't really prosecute people for getting sick or hurt. That wouldn't be right. So, we pay their way in the most inefficient manor possible; Through grossly inflated pricing.

That's the shit system we had before ACA.

Dave

[Wasillaguy]

You do realize hospitals overcharge to cover the cost of uninsured patients, right? The "customer" doesn't pay at all. No premium, no co-pays......nothing.

It's similar to the effect shoplifting has on retail pricing. Except, we can't really prosecute people for getting sick or hurt. That wouldn't be right. So, we pay their way in the most inefficient manor possible; Through grossly inflated pricing.

That's the shit system we had before ACA.

Dave

Actually, ACA is proving to be the most inefficient way possible, just as many warned it would.

[barbara]

Actually, ACA is proving to be the most inefficient way possible, just as many warned it would.

No, the website is inefficient. We have not seen the ACA in operation yet. That won't happen until after the new year.

I suspect, like all legislation of this magnitude, there will be some bumps in the road at first and then the dust will settle and things will work out.

The Medicare reform roll out was much the same....except the glitches didn't get so much media attention at the time.

[Wasillaguy]

When the government decided the poor and geographically disadvantaged should have subsidized telephone service, they managed to do so without large swaths of the population losing their phone plans, and being forced into only a few choices with features they don't need or want, or some advisory board deciding where we can call, or if we can have call waiting, or when we've done our share of communicating. We just pay a fee, clearly indicated as a line item on our invoice each month.

[BlueStreak]

No, the website is inefficient. We have not seen the ACA in operation yet. That won't happen until after the new year.

I suspect, like all legislation of this magnitude, there will be some bumps in the road at first and then the dust will settle and things will work out.

The Medicare reform roll out was much the same....except the glitches didn't get so much media attention at the time.

Exactly. I nearly busted out laughing while on the treadmill at the gym this morning. Those grinning jackasses at FoxNews trumpeting the failure of Obamacare. A little early, aint it? Kind of like someone trumpeting the failure of the internet in 1980.

Who is the idiot that falls for that kind of crap?

Oh, yeah......................;)

Dave

[donquixote99]

Nice analogy--Internet 1980. We won't know hoe 'efficinet' the ACA is for a fer years.

[BlueStreak]

At any rate, I thought the point of healthcare reform wasn't necessarily greater efficiency, but rather coverage extended to more people? Wasn't it? Ponder how and by whom the bitching about efficiency came about. As I recall, the president openly asked the Dumbo Party how it was even possible to cover more people without raising anyones taxes and has, as yet, to get an answer.............after nearly five years.

I remember some of the more slow-witted in our nation bitching that they refuse to pay for anyone else. (Completely ignoring the fact that they already do. Because, as a nation, we're too kind hearted to simply let people drop dead until their health situation becomes hopelessly untenable.)

Hmmmm..............?

Dave

[merrylander]

Actually, ACA is proving to be the most inefficient way possible, just as many warned it would.

Was we already devote 18% of the budget to healthcare, over twice what any other industrialized nation spends, yet we do not cover the whole population, so don't talk to us about efficiency. Yeah twice as much for half the care.:p

[Ike Bana]

When the government decided the poor and geographically disadvantaged should have subsidized telephone service, they managed to do so without large swaths of the population losing their phone plans, and being forced into only a few choices with features they don't need or want, or some advisory board deciding where we can call, or if we can have call waiting, or when we've done our share of communicating. We just pay a fee, clearly indicated as a line item on our invoice each month.

Oh...the poor, oppressed people of this country, forced to change their insurance plans. Victimized by teh evul Obamacare. Oh woe is them on a stick. When the people of this country were being forced to change their health plans and doctors, by insurance companies every couple of years (for the last 4 decades), when the people of this country were forced out of their PPO into some piece of shit HMO plan by their employers who could no longer afford the PPO plans (read...maximize profits), was the country rising up over it? No. When it's at the hands of the insurance industry or employers over and over again...not a peep out of anybody.

But when it's driven by a government program that will provide coverage for 30 million uninsured/uninsurable Americans, including disadvantaged children all across the fruited plain, then it's a catastrophe and an outrage.

This "I have to change my doctor/my plan." whining is just another dose of "business good/government bad" right-wing bullshit.

[donquixote99]

Oh...the poor, oppressed people of this country, forced to change their insurance plans. Victimized by teh evul Obamacare. Oh woe is them on a stick. When the people of this country were being forced to change their health plans and doctors, by insurance companies every couple of years (for the last 4 decades), when the people of this country were forced out of their PPO into some piece of shit HMO plan by their employers who could no longer afford the PPO plans (read...maximize profits), was the country rising up over it? No. When it's at the hands of the insurance industry or employers over and over again...not a peep out of anybody.

But when it's driven by a government program that will provide coverage for 30 million uninsured/uninsurable Americans, including disadvantaged children all across the fruited plain, then it's a catastrophe and an outrage.

This "I have to change my doctor/my plan." whining is just another dose of more right-wing "business good/government bad" bullshit.

You are suggesting the attacks are driven by sincere ideological belief. I fear they are mainly driven by a cynical coordinated anti-Democratic propaganda campaign. Although, if course, those reached by the propaganda may have 'sincere beliefs.'

[Ike Bana]

You are suggesting the attacks are driven by sincere ideological belief. I fear they are mainly driven by a cynical coordinated anti-Democratic propaganda campaign. Although, if course, those reached by the propaganda may have 'sincere beliefs.'

Au contraire. I was not suggesting that at all. As far as the politics goes, it's completely ideologically driven.

That said...IMO at the core of it all, the problem with health care in this country comes down to the self-absorbed people of this country. Republicans and Democrat Americans alike. The great majority of whom like their employer supported health insurance just fine, and don't give a shit in my hat for their 30 million fellow Americans without insurance or the 40,000 or so of them who have been needlessly dying every year for no other reason than the lack of decent health care.

If the American people really wanted a decent, fair and affordable health care system, we would already have one. A single payer system, just like most Europeans have and like Canadians have, and have had for three decades or more. But not us. Nope...we're Americans we like our health care system. The system that gives us crap life expectancy and infant mortality outcomes for twice the money of the next most expensive Euro system.

[BlueStreak]

Au contraire. I was not suggesting that at all. As far as the politics goes, it's completely ideologically driven.

That said...IMO at the core of it all, the problem with health care in this country comes down to the self-absorbed people of this country. Republicans and Democrat Americans alike. The great majority of whom like their employer supported health insurance just fine, and don't give a shit in my hat for their 30 million fellow Americans without insurance or the 40,000 or so of them who have been needlessly dying every year for no other reason than the lack of decent health care.

If the American people really wanted a decent, fair and affordable health care system, we would already have one. A single payer system, just like most Europeans have and like Canadians have, and have had for three decades or more. But not us. Nope...we're Americans we like our health care system. The system that gives us crap life expectancy and infant mortality outcomes for twice the money of the next most expensive Euro system.

I believe most Americans feel they have "earned" their employer sponsored healthcare and don't want anyone, especially not the evil government under the Dark Overlord, screwing with it. Or, at least this is what they have been conditioned to think.

I, however will never understand why anyone wants to be dependent on an employer for healthcare.....or anything for that matter, really. I would love to tell my employer stick his health plan up his poop chute. But, I can't because I can't afford it and I don't believe this is any accident. I think the system was designed to keep you dependent on work and the reason why rightwing business owners hate any sort of social safety net is because it weakens our dependence on THEM and then we make them pay for it.:p

Some claim this is "immoral". I call it "emancipating". Screw the Koch brothers, their flunkies and their colleagues. They can just give people incentive to work, rather than try to starve us into doing it on their cheapskate terms. Bastards.

Love,
Dave

[Ike Bana]

Absolutely. I've lost track of how many colleagues and friends over the years stayed in miserable and sometimes abusive employment situations because of health issues or a child's health issues. The combination of post WWII economic and workplace situations that generated this monstrosity are to blame. Easy fixes for wage and price controls and tax benefits in those years are to blame. Greed and control in later and recent years are to blame.

The delivery of health and mental health services should never, ever have been linked to employment.

[merrylander]

Au contraire. I was not suggesting that at all. As far as the politics goes, it's completely ideologically driven.

That said...IMO at the core of it all, the problem with health care in this country comes down to the self-absorbed people of this country. Republicans and Democrat Americans alike. The great majority of whom like their employer supported health insurance just fine, and don't give a shit in my hat for their 30 million fellow Americans without insurance or the 40,000 or so of them who have been needlessly dying every year for no other reason than the lack of decent health care.

If the American people really wanted a decent, fair and affordable health care system, we would already have one. A single payer system, just like most Europeans have and like Canadians have, and have had for three decades or more. But not us. Nope...we're Americans we like our health care system. The system that gives us crap life expectancy and infant mortality outcomes for twice the money of the next most expensive Euro system.

Makes me think I came down here 30 years ago and SinglePayer had been running for over 8 or 9 years when I left.

BTW welcome to the nut house Ike.

[merrylander]

Absolutely. I've lost track of how many colleagues and friends over the years stayed in miserable and sometimes abusive employment situations because of health issues or a child's health issues. The combination of post WWII economic and workplace situations that generated this monstrosity are to blame. Easy fixes for wage and price controls and tax benefits in those years are to blame. Greed and control in later and recent years are to blame.

The delivery of health and mental health services should never, ever have been linked to employment.

The funny part is that since I retired (at age 73) we have a better healthcare insurance than the crap plan TI offered.

[Ike Bana]

The Medicare plus supplemental we had the first year on Medicare and the Medicare Advantage program we're on now have been the best health insurance plans we've ever had. Better than anything in our 45 or so years in the workforce with all that spectacular employer supported health insurance.

And guess what? We switched health care plans for the Advantage plan after a year on Medicare and our lives weren't catastrophically altered forever. Who knew???

[barbara]

Welcome to the group, Ike.

[BlueStreak]

The Medicare plus supplemental we had the first year on Medicare and the Medicare Advantage program we're on now have been the best health insurance plans we've ever had. Better than anything in our 45 or so years in the workforce with all that spectacular employer supported health insurance.

And guess what? We switched health care plans for the Advantage plan after a year on Medicare and our lives weren't catastrophically altered forever. Who knew???

You mean to tell me Obamas stormtroopers haven't kicked in your door and issued you summons to appear before the Death Panel?:confused:

Dave

[icenine]

Actually the death panel are our children...they decide on the end of life care in consultation with the doctors.

[BlueStreak]

Actually the death panel are our children...they decide on the end of life care in consultation with the doctors.

Which is no different than it ever was.

[icenine]

Which is no different than it ever was.

Well the tea baggers are saying Obamacare is going to pull the plug on granny............:rolleyes:


or is it a case of projection...are the teabaggers hating Obama because they hate themselves?

[Ike Bana]

Welcome to the group, Ike.

Thanks barbara. I like it already.

[Ike Bana]

You mean to tell me Obamas stormtroopers haven't kicked in your door and issued you summons to appear before the Death Panel?:confused:

Dave

Nope, not to date.

So interesting though, isn't it? That the for-profit health insurance industry has had their death panels, and have been pulling the plug on granny for over 40 years without a peep outta hardly anybody, eh?

[BlueStreak]

Remember Terry Schaivo? Tragic case of politiciains and the rightwing media capitalizing on human tragedy, to be sure.

It was an interesting case because it was the husband, who had the legal right to make the decision. But, the Republicans tried everything they could, up to and including an act of congress, to violate that legal right.

So, they attempt to bypass the law, in order to use federal government muscle to thwart the legal rights of a private citizen............ And some of us still believe the lie that those guys are all about small government and protecting individual rights.:confused: To my mind it was the single most obvious act of ideological hypocrisy and grandstanding of my lifetime. Yet,....they get a pass from their Legion of Lemmings. Amazing.

There are other examples of them using psychological trickery to thwart our rights of free speech, assembly and, of course, the recent attempts to curb voting. It's sickening, really, to watch grinning Americans follow these snakes down the path to servitude thinking they're somehow serving the cause of "freedom". Far from it.

Dave