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Boreas
12-25-2009, 08:28 PM
Earlier today a Nigerian with apparent terrorist ties attempted to blow up a Delta flight from Amsterdam to Detroit. Details are sketchy but it appears that he triggered the device but that it failed, succeeding only in starting a small fire. Passengers who noticed the "POP" and the flames subdued the man.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8430612.stm

John

noonereal
12-26-2009, 02:38 AM
Seems to me this is airline security not doing it's job.

merrylander
12-26-2009, 07:02 AM
Since the 'explosive' did not explode maybe it was not detectable as an explosive.

Noon your PM box is full.

Grumpy
12-26-2009, 07:09 AM
If i was on the plane next to him, third degree burns would not be all he had to worry about.

noonereal
12-26-2009, 08:03 AM
Since the 'explosive' did not explode maybe it was not detectable as an explosive.

Noon your PM box is full.

Yes, I am trying to figure out how to archive. :confused:

I dislike deleting any communications as I have such a poor memory!

When I got a new PC (business) the tech kid who came over to transfer my settings/info and he said he had never had a seen so much mail. As customers have much worse memories than I do, I save all communication with them. Very handy.

Sandy G
12-26-2009, 08:04 AM
Me, too, Dave...Back in the day, I had a friend who flew for Saudia, the Saudi Arabian flag airlines.There was commonly a Saudi security guard or 2 that flew incognito on most of their flights. Once a couple of byrds tried to hijack one of THEIR flights, they were overpowered, brought up to the front seats of the plane, had towels wrapped around them, & the security guys slit their throats. When the plane landed, EVERYBODY on board had to file by & see what would happen if YOU tried to do the same thing...Needless to say, there weren't many hijackings of Saudia planes...

Grumpy
12-26-2009, 11:01 AM
Me, too, Dave...Back in the day, I had a friend who flew for Saudia, the Saudi Arabian flag airlines.There was commonly a Saudi security guard or 2 that flew incognito on most of their flights. Once a couple of byrds tried to hijack one of THEIR flights, they were overpowered, brought up to the front seats of the plane, had towels wrapped around them, & the security guys slit their throats. When the plane landed, EVERYBODY on board had to file by & see what would happen if YOU tried to do the same thing...Needless to say, there weren't many hijackings of Saudia planes...


Dang I like that policy !

piece-itpete
12-28-2009, 08:29 AM
This is all just fearmongering by Obama and Co.

;)

Pete

BlueStreak
12-28-2009, 10:00 AM
So, if he boarded the plane in Amsterdam, then how in the hell is this the fault of the U.S. Government and President Obama, as the media and the Republican Party has already been busy alledging? Seems to me the airline and the airport security in Amsterdam should be the ones under the microscope. He was on the list, (As big as the list may be.), was he not?

And my second question would be this;
He planned to crash the plane over Detroit?
The loss of the people in the plane would have been a terrible tradgedy,
but Detroit is already wrecked. What, you crash a plane into an abandoned, delapidated car factory, then what?:confused: What a putz!

Dave

Boreas
12-28-2009, 10:38 AM
So, if he boarded the plane in Amsterdam, then how in the hell is this the fault of the U.S. Government and President Obama, as the media and the Republican Party has already been busy alledging?

Pathetic, isn't it? So much for the "Left Wing Media"!

John

piece-itpete
12-28-2009, 10:54 AM
Whoa, yuz guyz need a stiff snort :D

Turnabout IS fair play, after all.

I was really proud that the passengers brought him down, so much for the decadent Americans Osama likes to harp about.

Pete

Boreas
12-28-2009, 11:07 AM
Whoa, yuz guyz need a stiff snort :D

Turnabout IS fair play, after all.

I was really proud that the passengers brought him down, so much for the decadent Americans Osama likes to harp about.

Pete

The passenger who first jumped him was a Dutch filmmaker. From three rows back.

John

piece-itpete
12-28-2009, 12:01 PM
Wow, finally those Europeans get off their butts :)

Pretty soon they'll be banning minarets :D

Seriously, that's very cool.

It looks like the big story is the guys father reported the misguided moron to the American embassy November at the latest.

I find it heartening that there are those over there who are our friends.

Now Obama can invade Yemen. Peace prize part 2?

Pete

Boreas
12-28-2009, 12:30 PM
Now Obama can invade Yemen. Peace prize part 2?

Pete

We've been there for months already.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/6803120/US-special-forces-train-Yemen-army-as-Arab-state-becomes-al-Qaeda-reserve-base.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/19/world/middleeast/19yemen.html

http://www.yemenpost.net/Detail123456789.aspx?ID=3&SubID=1725

If you strip out the jihadist rhetoric the Yemeni report is probably pretty accurate.

John

merrylander
12-28-2009, 12:35 PM
If you look at the flight path as published he would have more likely craashed into Windsor Ontario, the plane was over Canada when he tried to set himself off.

piece-itpete
12-28-2009, 12:36 PM
That's pretty good, thanks!

But don't tell me Obama is supporting a strongarm dictator and empowering be-tray-us :D

Pete

Boreas
12-28-2009, 12:50 PM
That's pretty good, thanks!

But don't tell me Obama is supporting a strongarm dictator and empowering be-tray-us :D

Pete

I think it's more a question of preventing al Qaeda from getting its own country. Yemen is a borderline failed state. If it were to collapse completely a large resident population of trained jihadists could easily take over. I think we're there to kill off as many of them as we can before it's too late.

It may not mean anything because he's probably been dead for a couple of years but bin Laden's family is Yemeni.

John

merrylander
12-28-2009, 02:33 PM
And please don't give me all the crap about 'innocent women and children' they are no more innocent than the men.

Our war on Islam? excuse me it was not us that flew plane loads of innocents into the twin towers and the Pentagon, or do those barbarians consider that a peaceful gesture. If they really want to see a war we could lob in a few Tridents.

Boreas
12-28-2009, 02:57 PM
And please don't give me all the crap about 'innocent women and children' they are no more innocent than the men.

Rob, I am going to give it to you. I think you have to acknowledge that some of the men and women we've killed in our "War on Terror", and nearly all of the children, were innocent.

Our war on Islam? excuse me it was not us that flew plane loads of innocents into the twin towers and the Pentagon, or do those barbarians consider that a peaceful gesture. If they really want to see a war we could lob in a few Tridents.

Islam is not at war on us any more than all Quebecois were at war with Canada or all Catholics in Northern Ireland were at war with England & the "Prods". To broaden the scope of your anger to encompass all Muslims isn't far removed from what the jihadists do regarding "infidels".

John

HatchetJack
12-28-2009, 08:11 PM
I'm callin BS on that one. They all hate us because we are superier to them
in every way.

Boreas
12-28-2009, 10:16 PM
I'm callin BS on that one. They all hate us because we are superier to them in every way.

Jack, this is wrong in every conceivable way.

John

Sandy G
12-29-2009, 05:52 AM
No, Jack has a point there, but maybe not quite in the way you think. The Muslim world is stuck somewhere in the pre-medevial times, if it weren't for their sitting on top of 3/4 of the world's oil supply, nobody would ever go there, & they could sit around the oasis happily dream of Saladin, buggering little boys, & Allah to their heart's content. Other than the oil thing, they have no more relevance in the modern world than Zulu warlords do. I guess that's one reason they despise the West, for despite whatever problems our Western culture has, WE are the dominant way of life. No other group even comes close. Most assuredly, Arabian culture has given the world a lot, but their meaningful contributions pretty much ended a long, long time ago, when the flinty-eyed mullahs took over, & decided that THEY were the only ones who could think for their people...A culture starts to die as soon as the preachers, priests, & shamans take over, & impose their will & strictures on everyone else...

Charles
12-29-2009, 06:51 AM
"Seeing the way the Arabs live in Tunisia makes a strong case for Christianity."

Gen. George S. Patton

Chas

merrylander
12-29-2009, 07:48 AM
John, I don't hat all muslims in fact I don't really hate anyone, I just want to live my life, what's left of it in peace and quiet. But the shiites who follow Sharia law want to set up a Caliphate for the whole world, and the Sunni Wahabiis are not much better. Sharia and Wahabism are tribal leftovers from the fifth century and have no place or relevance in this century. But teir adherents follow it blindly because they do not want to think for themselves.

Have not Palestinian (oops Arab, Palestine was a figment of Lord Balfour's imagination) women acted as suicide bombers? Do not the children simply grow up to follow this same path? The IRA did not care how many innocents they killed. All of these groups have one thing in common, hatred of someone else because of something that happened centuries ago. My ex was of Irish extraction, I recall one night we were watching a CBC documentary on the Easter Rebellion and my mother in law turned to me and said "You British . . ." to which I responded "Hey I was not there, I had nothing to do with it". Actually she was not yet my MIL, I should have seen the writing on the wall.

Sure I am of British extraction, so effing what. I take no credit for the good things they did and no blame for therir sins. I have enough sins of my own to answer for, I don't need anyone else's baggage.

The present drive by these people is world domination and there is no pretty way to fight an enemy who hides behind the skirts of their women or the bodies of their children, ask any Israelie. Are we suppoesd to see our young men and women die playing by the rules when the enemy will not? Frankly, I think the Marquis of Queensbury was an idiot. If someone comes at me with the intent of bodily harm I will take him down by the most effective and fastest way I can.

Leave me alone and I can be the nicest person you would ever want to meet, screw with me because of some stupid idea you have due to events of 512 AD then you are asking for trouble.

Was Shock and Awe a dumb idea? Hell yes, look where it came from. Did Gen Franks screw up at Tora Bora? damn right he did, bin Laden would be dead and we would be out of the region had he called in bunker busters from Diego Suarez, still not too late to collapse all the caves in Wazeristan. Look at the results of the past eight years, Afghanistan and Iraq are hotbeds of corruption, we took out a Sunni who kept things under control and installed a Shiite who kisses Ahmedinijad's butt. Meanwhile we have yet to arm the Kurds properly because we want the Turks to like us. The leader in Afghanistan has relatives living here in MD and they do not seem to be in any hurry to go back there. There used to be a nation called Kurdistan, good people.

Much of this because we want to install democratic governments and history (if we knew it) tells us that cannot be done. If people want democracy (and many do not) then they need to establish it themselves.

piece-itpete
12-29-2009, 08:58 AM
Rob, we hereby blame you for everything bad the British Empire has ever done.

Also since you live here everything bad the US has done, which is why the Arabs hate us.

Heck Indians and slavery too. How could we do such a thing?

:D :D :D

Pete

Boreas
12-29-2009, 09:26 AM
The IRA did not care how many innocents they killed. All of these groups have one thing in common, hatred of someone else because of something that happened centuries ago. My ex was of Irish extraction, I recall one night we were watching a CBC documentary on the Easter Rebellion and my mother in law turned to me and said "You British . . ." to which I responded "Hey I was not there, I had nothing to do with it". Actually she was not yet my MIL, I should have seen the writing on the wall.

Sure I am of British extraction, so effing what. I take no credit for the good things they did and no blame for therir sins. I have enough sins of my own to answer for, I don't need anyone else's baggage.

Rob, it strikes me that your former mother-in-law was guilty of something many others of us are guilty of today when it comes to Muslims. Just as she did with the English, we tend to condemn the entire Muslim world for the actions of a few radicals.

John

BlueStreak
12-29-2009, 09:27 AM
" I guess that's one reason they despise the West, for despite whatever problems our Western culture has, WE are the dominant way of life. No other group even comes close. "----Sandy G.

Uh, It would appear to me that we are being eclipsed----by the Rising Sun.:(

So, when Asian culture becomes the "Dominant culture", will you convert to Bhuddism?

Dave

HatchetJack
12-29-2009, 09:51 AM
I pledge allegiance to the flag of Walmart and to the communists for which
it stands, one nation divided with cheap goods and no jobs for all.:mad:

piece-itpete
12-29-2009, 09:54 AM
I'll take one dog egg roll please.

Pete

Boreas
12-29-2009, 10:02 AM
I pledge allegiance to the flag of Walmart and to the communists for which
it stands, one nation divided with cheap goods and no jobs for all.:mad:

Good thing we have those cheap goods. Without jobs it's all we can afford. ;)

Walmart? Communist?

Jeeze!

John

Sandy G
12-29-2009, 10:55 AM
Western values & culture have raised the std of living of the world almost universally everywhere they've been applied. Look at the tremendous strides that have been made in extending Man's life-Virtually ALL of them have come from the scientific methods that were pioneered here in the West. Capitalism-and division of labor- has freed millions from lives of drudgery & toil-You DON'T have to raise & depend on yrself to grow yr own food anymore, make yr own clothes, etc, unless you really WANT to. Even our erstwhile enemies like Germany & Japan-I maintain that it was about the best thing that could have ever happened to them, to have lost WW2 to us, as both countries are wealthy & influential beyond anything Hitler & Tojo could have ever dreamed. China has made almost unbelievable strides in the 30 years THEY'VE been opened up, too. But the Muslim world is still more or less stuck in 950 AD-And yeah, that's gotta chafe. They ARE inferior to us-And its their own fault. I went to school w/a few Saudi nationals-Good guys, every bit as intelligent as any of us. But they'll stay bassackwards until they decide that "The West" is NOT evil, & really poses no threat to them, unless they decide to keep poking it in its collective eye, w/suicide bombers & other idiot fanatics.

BlueStreak
12-29-2009, 11:17 AM
I pledge allegiance to the flag of Walmart and to the communists for which
it stands, one nation divided with cheap goods and no jobs for all.:mad:

Don't ever leave us Jack.

You are hilarious.

Dave

merrylander
12-29-2009, 12:45 PM
Rob, it strikes me that your former mother-in-law was guilty of something many others of us are guilty of today when it comes to Muslims. Just as she did with the English, we tend to condemn the entire Muslim world for the actions of a few radicals.

John

You are missing the point, it is not the muslims who follow the Koran, they are relatively peaceful people, The ones who adhere to Sharia and Wahabism are fanatics and are dangerous. I don't hate them but I am not blind to their aims either.

merrylander
12-29-2009, 12:48 PM
Sandy old friend I just saw some shining examples of the bountiful food western culture provides, we had to throw out a lemon, several strawberries and some mushrooms, all bought at the supermarket day before yesterday. If you don't eat the stuff while standing in line at the checkout it goes bad.

Boreas
12-29-2009, 01:24 PM
You are missing the point, it is not the muslims who follow the Koran, they are relatively peaceful people, The ones who adhere to Sharia and Wahabism are fanatics and are dangerous. I don't hate them but I am not blind to their aims either.

Perhaps I am but I had help. ;) When you referred to our war on Islam I took it to mean that you see this as a struggle (jihad?) between two competing ideologies and that all Islam as a whole is the enemy.

As to Sharia'a, Wahabis and Shiites, I believe you've got things a bit muddled. Sharia'a is simply "God's Law" for Muslims, just like the Torah is for the Jews and, just as with the Jews, there are radical interpretations of Sharia'a that fall outside the mainstream. Some Muslims subscribe to these radical interpretations whether Shiite or Sunni. Wahhabism is such a radical sect within the Sunni branch of Islam, not the Shiite.

The reestablishment of the Caliphate is something about which there is no agreement and very little support among Muslims. Since the collapse of the last Caliphate in the 1920s nationalism has reemerged where it previously existed and has been spawned in those countries, like Jordan, which have emerged since. If, which is doubtful, Muslims were ever to agree on whether the Caliphate should be more or less secular or clerical in nature they would still have to convince Muslims (and their fellow citizens who are not Muslim) to allow their various national identities to be subjugated to a pan-Islamic Caliphate.

Ain't happening IMO.

John

HatchetJack
12-29-2009, 01:43 PM
It's all Camelism and they stink.

HatchetJack
12-29-2009, 01:51 PM
Don't ever leave us Jack.

You are hilarious.

Dave

Somebody has to be the bad guy around here.:)

Boreas
12-29-2009, 01:51 PM
It's all Camelism and they stink.

I can see you've given your position a great deal of thought, Jack. ;)

John