Reagan the worst?

[BlueStreak]

http://www.examiner.com/article/8-reasons-why-ronald-reagan-was-the-worst-president-of-our-lifetime

Dave

[Oerets]

Left out one, October Surprise conspiracy theory!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise_conspiracy_theory

There is talk the new bridge across the Ohio here in The Derby will be named after St.Ron!

Barney

[finnbow]

It's a toss-up between Reagan and Dubya. As for long-term damage though, Reagan takes the cake.

[bobabode]

I hope that McCarthy's snitch is turning on one of Old Scratch's spits in the lower depths of Hades. :p

[BlueStreak]

Left out one, October Surprise conspiracy theory!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise_conspiracy_theory

There is talk the new bridge across the Ohio here in The Derby will be named after St.Ron!

Barney

That whole thing with the hostages miraculously being released was the most obvious PR stunt in the history of mankind. The truly amazing thing is that so many people STILL think it was because "the terrorists" were afraid of Reagan. Really? They weren't too frightened of him to blow up the Marine Barracks, now were they?:rolleyes:

Dave

[CarlV]

It's a toss-up between Reagan and Dubya. As for long-term damage though, Reagan takes the cake.

If you are putting the two side by side and include their terms as Gov. I have to say that Reagan is the clear winner.


Carl

[CarlV]

Ah, what the heck, a repost of my favorite attachment. :D

http://www.politicalchat.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=560&d=1289144118


Carl

[BlueStreak]

A lot of people love him, because he promised them they could have small government and low taxes. I guess I can't blame them for that. It's just that they seem to think he actually delivered those things that leaves me shaking my head. Like my old man said, ".......the worlds greatest bullshit artist.".

Dave

[mpholland]

That whole thing with the hostages miraculously being released was the most obvious PR stunt in the history of mankind. The truly amazing thing is that so many people STILL think it was because "the terrorists" were afraid of Reagan. Really? They weren't too frightened of him to blow up the Marine Barracks, now were they?:rolleyes:

Dave

Not sure how the terrorists could be afraid of us in the early 80's. Let's send a bunch of Marines to Beirut and give them ROE's that say they can't shoot back unless they can identify exactly who is shooting at them. Kind of an impossible task at the time, since most of our intelligence had been wiped out. Talk about a human shooting gallery.

[icenine]

I do not know what the Boss meant with this line from Magic but whenever I hear it I think of George W.Bush:

I got a shiny saw blade (a shiny saw blade)
All I need's a volunteer
I'll cut you in half
While you're smilin' ear to ear


I would say George Bush beats Reagan for being the worst since Nixon. I think there is use of hucksterism among some politicians as a weapon to win office. Reagan looked like a charming cowboy bringing morning back to America. While not as good on camera as Reagan I have heard that in person Bush was a able to really connect with an audience of doners, voters, etc

[bobabode]

I would say George Bush beats Reagan for being the worst since Nixon.

Really? Gee Dubya may have been responsible for more dead Americans than St. Ronnie of RKO but there can't be any doubt that Reagan did lasting damage to the country as a whole. :confused:

[icenine]

Really? Gee Dubya may have been responsible for more dead Americans than St. Ronnie of RKO but there can't be any doubt that Reagan did lasting damage to the country as a whole. :confused:

Sometimes I think Reagan may have believed in that small government bullshit but sort of moderated his policies. You are right about his tax philosophy and the idiocy of supply side economics.

My impression of Bush was that he and his advisors were trying to wreak havoc on the nation by being more true to the Reagan ideal as a sort of revenge against Clinton by outdoing Reagan. Thus the huge unfunded tax cuts, the complete idiocy of invading Iraq on wrong intelligence, etc. I really think Reagan would not have invaded Iraq after 911,
The 5000 dead Americans in Iraq make Bush much worse than Reagan ever was in my mind.

What I really cannot stand is that some of the guys around Bush never served in the military...people like Rove, Rumsfield, Cheney...and basically decided to let others die for them so they could realize some neo-con fantasy about making Iraq into a democracy. I think Bush should have had someone around him that was not afraid to say hey wait a minute these guys are going to ruin your legacy not to mention get you into a quagmire. I think Reagan had wisdom whereas Bush lacked judgement.

I was born after Eisenhower but sort of look at Reagan as my Ike....not perfect but also not cavalier like Bush. Reagan made some big mistakes but the 80s were not that bad in my memory. Sometimes boring is good.

[bobabode]

Different strokes I guess but I'm with Carl. If you were here for Reagan's and Ed Meese's antics in California, Ronnie & crew win it hands down for the worst administration in American history. Nixon was a piker in comparison.

[Oerets]

I still can't figure out what I was thinking to have voted for him against Carter. Would say "well at least I voted" but in truth wish I'd stayed home that day rather then voted for him.


Barney

[CarlV]

My impression of Bush was that he and his advisors were trying to wreak havoc on the nation by being more true to the Reagan ideal as a sort of revenge against Clinton by outdoing Reagan. Thus the huge unfunded tax cuts, the complete idiocy of invading Iraq on wrong intelligence, etc. I really think Reagan would not have invaded Iraq after 911,
The 5000 dead Americans in Iraq make Bush much worse than Reagan ever was in my mind.




Maybe if Reagan did not hire, train, and pay money to Bin Laden to mess with the Russians, Bin Laden may not have gotten his contempt for the USA and neither WTC capers would have happened. That is my thought on the matter anyway.
The 5000 body bags, lying to the world about WMD's, Bush tax cuts for the rich with money we never had to begin with. Bush does get honorable mention.


Carl

[Ike Bana]

The SE Asia body counts on both sides for nothing make LBJ and Nixon 1 or 2...I can't decide which, pick 'em.

The Iraq/Afghanistan body counts on both sides for absolutely fucking nothing makes Bush number 3.

Amnesty for 3 million illegals is one of the top ten reasons why Reagan was the worst? IDTS.


Personally, and when I get past my possibly obsessive infuriation over war for no reason, Bush was the worst chief executive in my adult lifetime. And the worst 2 term president in the history of the country. Worse than Reagan, even worse than Grant.

[icenine]

I think we were at fault also....no one in the general public was saying hey wait a minute do not do this too loudly as I recall....maybe it was because it was just after 911. Obama's recent reversal on bombing Syria is an example of a President sort of giving in to public opinion. However he had the war in Iraq as hindsight. And Syria is not over yet.

[Dondilion]

Amnesty for 3 million illegals is one of the top ten reasons why Reagan was the worst? IDTS.



A good deed by Reagan. It helped a lot of disadvantaged agricultural workers and their loved ones.

[CarlV]

The SE Asia body counts on both sides for nothing make LBJ and Nixon 1 or 2...I can't decide which, pick 'em.



Oh, I vote Nixon. By a country mile.

Rumors and whispers of Richard Nixon's 'treason' -- sabotaging Vietnam peace talks to help his Presidential campaign -- have floated around for years, but newly released tapes from Lyndon Johnson's Presidency confirm that LBJ knew about Nixon's behaviour and didn't bother to report it.
In previously released tapes from Johnson's Presidency, we had heard about Johnson having substantial body of evidence showing Nixon had schemed to keep the South Vietnamese away from the negotiating table at the 1968 Paris peace talks. Like Nixon, Johnson had recored all of his conversations held inside the White House. Nixon was accused or dispatching Anna Chennault, a senior advisor, to convince the South Vietnamese they would get a better deal if they didn't agree to a peace deal until after the U.S. Presidential election. Chennault confirmed she spoke with the Vietnamese in her autobiography, The Education of Anna, but nothing more than that. If true, the charge would likely amount to treason.
And Johnson knew about it all. In the recently released tapes, we can hear Johnson being told about Nixon's interference by Defence Secretary Clark Clifford. The FBI had bugged the South Vietnamese ambassadors phone. They had Chennault lobbying the ambassador on tape. Johnson was justifiably furious -- he ordered Nixon's campaign be placed under FBI surveillance. Johnson passed along a note to Nixon that he knew about the move. Nixon played like he had no idea why the South backed out, and offered to travel to Saigon to get them back to the negotiating table.
Johnson also passed along a note to Nixon's opponent, Democrat Hubert Humphrey. The Democratic campaign found out just days before the election, though, and decided they were close enough in the polls to not release the information. A treason accusation could potentially damage the country's security, they thought, before Humphrey lost a narrow election. Hindsight is 20/20, others say. Link (http://news.yahoo.com/newly-released-secret-tapes-reveal-lbj-knew-never-201737636.html)


OK, back on topic.


Carl

[piece-itpete]

.. Obama's recent reversal on bombing Syria is an example of a President sort of giving in to public opinion. ...

The ONLY reason he gave in was the chemical weapons agreement, which he made clear.

Pete

[MrPots]

Sometimes I think Reagan may have believed in that small government bullshit but sort of moderated his policies. You are right about his tax philosophy and the idiocy of supply side economics.

My impression of Bush was that he and his advisors were trying to wreak havoc on the nation by being more true to the Reagan ideal as a sort of revenge against Clinton by outdoing Reagan. Thus the huge unfunded tax cuts, the complete idiocy of invading Iraq on wrong intelligence, etc. I really think Reagan would not have invaded Iraq after 911,
The 5000 dead Americans in Iraq make Bush much worse than Reagan ever was in my mind.

What I really cannot stand is that some of the guys around Bush never served in the military...people like Rove, Rumsfield, Cheney...and basically decided to let others die for them so they could realize some neo-con fantasy about making Iraq into a democracy. I think Bush should have had someone around him that was not afraid to say hey wait a minute these guys are going to ruin your legacy not to mention get you into a quagmire. I think Reagan had wisdom whereas Bush lacked judgement.

I was born after Eisenhower but sort of look at Reagan as my Ike....not perfect but also not cavalier like Bush. Reagan made some big mistakes but the 80s were not that bad in my memory. Sometimes boring is good.

I'm having difficulty getting past the 100,000 dead Iraqis to get to the 5000 dead Americans.

Odd how we keep forgetting that part of it.......

[piece-itpete]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein's_Iraq

Pete

[MrPots]

Kinda puts us right on par with Saddam don't it.

[piece-itpete]

100,000, a few million, all the same? They are masters of their own destiny now.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

They are masters of their own destiny now.

Pete

LOL!!!!

Until they ditch that stupid religion, they will never be "...masters of their own destiny....".:rolleyes:

Dave

[finnbow]

100,000, a few million, all the same? They are masters of their own destiny now.

Pete

I think Iran may disagree with that assessment.

[piece-itpete]

They'd sure LIKE to, but I suspect Iraq will reassert themselves, if they can ever get their act together.

Pete

[finnbow]

They'd sure LIKE to, but I suspect Iraq will reassert themselves, if they can ever get their act together.

Pete

I disagree. Recent polls in Iraq show that the majority Shia (~70%) trust Iran far more than they trust us, and certainly far more than they trust Sunnis and Kurds.

[icenine]

I'm having difficulty getting past the 100,000 dead Iraqis to get to the 5000 dead Americans.

Odd how we keep forgetting that part of it.......

I do not forget about it....I just did not mention it.

[icenine]

The ONLY reason he gave in was the chemical weapons agreement, which he made clear.

Pete

Remember he took it before Congress before Boris came up with the plan that sort of saved our face....

[piece-itpete]

This was the latest I could find. I would point out that there is a big difference between trusting a country and desiring to be a vassal state.

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2010/05/05/iran_gets_poor_marks_in_iraq_even_from_shiites_989 49.html

Pete

[finnbow]

This was the latest I could find. I would point out that there is a big difference between trusting a country and desiring to be a vassal state.

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2010/05/05/iran_gets_poor_marks_in_iraq_even_from_shiites_989 49.html

Pete

That article is 4 years old and was written just after the 2010 election. Things have changed a lot since then. While the Iraqis don't want to be anybody's vassal state, the level of Iran's influence with Nouri al-Maliki. Here's an article that's a bit more current/relevant:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/iran-tries-to-salvage-ira_n_1569204.html

[Ike Bana]

I'm having difficulty getting past the 100,000 dead Iraqis to get to the 5000 dead Americans.

Odd how we keep forgetting that part of it.......

Estimates I believe are more accurate approach a half-million Iraqis that would be alive today if there had be no Bush war in Iraq.

[bobabode]

Estimates I believe are more accurate approach a half-million Iraqis that would be alive today if there had be no Bush war in Iraq.

Those are the numbers I've heard.

[piece-itpete]

There is still nothing past influence, and if they have to work in crisis mode they're sure not in control.

Pete

[piece-itpete]

Btw I agree the Grand Ayatollah thing is troubling. The good bit is, Iran appears to be running scared.

Pete