The latest regarding VW..........

[BlueStreak]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA1I0S820140219?irpc=932

I wish them success.

Dave

[CarlV]

Yep, I had gathered excatly that from what I had read the other day, and sure enough there was this story this morning. So VW does not like it when the plant workers bites the hand that feeds them? VW needs to get over it, or something like that. :p



Carl

[BlueStreak]

It's interesting that Corker warned that unionization would cost jobs and it may turn out that the lack of unionization might be the job killer. Of course in the eyes of Corker, his using the threat of unemployment to sway the vote is just fine. I'm sure he will call the German unions warning "thuggery" or some such thing. Perspective being what it is and all.

[Oerets]

Now lets see how this is spun by the Right. Labor Unions in Germany trying to sway an election in the US.

Here I thought a new VW would be in my future. Not now! Only buy union made US cars.

Barney

[piece-itpete]

So the workers' will is meaningless?

Pete

[CarlV]

So the workers' will is meaningless?

Pete

Having a quantity not quality day today Pete? :p


So you think Corker is doing what is best for his constituents or is he doing what the Koch Bros. are paying him to do?


Carl

[piece-itpete]

I'm simply saying the workers voted. And once again, if it's such an issue for VW, why did they locate there to begin with? The UAW would've almost certainly won in Detroit.

Pete

[d-ray657]

So the workers' will is meaningless?

Pete

If a vote is based on deception and intimidation, is it a true reflection of the workers' will?

Even assuming that there were no corrupting factors in this election, isn't it legitimate for the workers who have a stake in the company to conclude that they would prefer to locate plants where people have a greater idea of the value of labor - and of labor's input into the running of the company.

Regards,

D-Ray

[CarlV]

I'm simply saying the workers voted. And once again, if it's such an issue for VW, why did they locate there to begin with? The UAW would've almost certainly won in Detroit.

Pete

Maybe you should actually read the article.


Carl

[piece-itpete]

I did.

Deception, intimidation, sounds like a good old fashioned Union vote :o Seriously was someone standing in the booth with them?

Pete

[CarlV]

I guess you must have missed the other thread.
http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=6893

CHATTANOOGA, Tennessee (Reuters) - U.S. Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee said on Wednesday he has been "assured" that if workers at the Volkswagen AG plant in his hometown of Chattanooga reject United Auto Worker representation, the company will reward the plant with a new product to build.

Corker's bombshell, which runs counter to public statements by Volkswagen, was dropped on the first of a three-day secret ballot election of blue-collar workers at the Chattanooga plant whether to allow the UAW to represent them.

Corker has long been an opponent of the union which he says hurts economic and job growth in Tennessee, a charge that UAW officials say is untrue.

"I've had conversations today and based on those am assured that should the workers vote against the UAW, Volkswagen will announce in the coming weeks that it will manufacture its new mid-size SUV here in Chattanooga," said Corker, without saying with whom he had the conversations.

In the past few weeks, Volkswagen officials have made several statements that the vote will have no bearing on whether the SUV will be made at the Chattanooga plant or at a plant in Puebla, Mexico.

National Labor Relations Board expert Kenneth G. Dau-Schmidt, who is professor of labor at the University of Indiana-Bloomington, said Corker was trying to intimidate workers into voting against the union.

"I'm really kind of shocked at Corker's statement," said Dau-Schmidt. "It's so inconsistent with what VW has been saying and VW's labor relations policy in general."

The Indiana professor also said Corker's comments "would be grounds to set the election aside and have to run it all over again at a later date" because it could be ruled to be interfering to the point that it is against federal labor law.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/13/us-volkswagen-corker-idUSBREA1C04H20140213


Carl

[piece-itpete]

I saw that. I've also heard Dems say the world is going to end if their Pres doesn't win, and the GOP saying the same thing. Why doesn't VWs management or union reps come right out and say if he was right or not? Heck they could've responded immediately.

The whole thing smells IMO. Something just ain't right!

Pete

[BlueStreak]

So the workers' will is meaningless?

Pete

How do you know the results of that election represented the true will of the workforce? How many voted no, or didn't show up for the vote at all, out of fear of reprisal from management?

Dave

[BlueStreak]

I saw that. I've also heard Dems say the world is going to end if their Pres doesn't win, and the GOP saying the same thing. Why doesn't VWs management or union reps come right out and say if he was right or not? Heck they could've responded immediately.

The whole thing smells IMO. Something just ain't right!

Pete

I agree, something does stink. The foul odor first fill my nostrils when St. Ronnie fired PATCO. And the most recent stench filled the air when Republican politicians started sticking their noses in it and running their mouths. I see it as a long overdue effort to turn the tide against neo-conservatism on the labor issue.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

How do you know the results of that election represented the true will of the workforce? How many voted no, or didn't show up for the vote at all, out of fear of reprisal from management?

Dave

That would be a good question for the workers' friends at VW.

I'm still convinced that there's more to this than we know.

Here's another take on it:

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/uaw-loses-volkswagen-vote--should-we-care--160128679.html

Pete

[CarlV]

It is VW's money, maybe they built here because they wanted to build on this continental but without Mexico's corruption. Now they have built here and figured out corruption is here just as it is in Mexico after spending 1 billion of our money and 1/2 billion of theirs. They could be looking at Canada even instead of throwing good money after bad.
I'm still convinced that there's more to this than we know.
No, I don't see it at all.


Carl

[piece-itpete]

"......

Bernd Osterloh, the head of the VW works council told German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung: "I can imagine fairly well that another VW factory in the United States, provided that one more should still be set up there, does not necessarily have to be assigned to the south again."

This is especially significant since works councils have to approve any decisions to open or close any VW plants and VW has been publicly deciding whether to move some of its U.S. production into Mexico.

...."

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/uaw-loses-volkswagen-vote--should-we-care--160128679.html

Bold font added.

Pete

[CarlV]

So? It's their company and its their money.


Carl

[BlueStreak]

Maybe it's a sinister Polish-American conspiracy to manipulate VW into locating near Cleveland, Pete? Hey, we've got open industrial land in Twinsburg...............:)

Dave

[piece-itpete]

:D

Pete

[piece-itpete]

It comes down to, why the sudden enlightenment? Remember the workers council has as much stake in VW as a corporate entity as management does.

Pete

[bobabode]

I saw that. I've also heard Dems say the world is going to end if their Pres doesn't win, and the GOP saying the same thing. Why doesn't VWs management or union reps come right out and say if he was right or not? Heck they could've responded immediately.

The whole thing smells IMO. Something just ain't right!

Pete

Because if anyone in VW management was proved or admitted to giving "assurances" to that piece o' crap Corker, there would be hell to pay. It is illegal.

[bobabode]

It comes down to, why the sudden enlightenment? Remember the workers council has as much stake in VW as a corporate entity as management does.

Pete

Uhhh, they read newspapers? They saw how public officials threatened the company and the workers here. I'll bet if that behavior happened in Germany, somebody would be in jail or ridden out of town on a rail.

[piece-itpete]

Because if anyone in VW management was proved or admitted to giving "assurances" to that piece o' crap Corker, there would be hell to pay. It is illegal.

Hence, something is amiss.

I did say I would've voted for the union if I worked there.

Consider this:

"...
When Volkswagen opened its plant in Chattanooga in 2011 and hired 2,000 workers, Rattner says, "little attention was paid to the fact that the beginning wage for assembly line workers was $14.50 per hour, about half of what traditional, unionized workers employed by General Motors or Ford received."

With benefits, Rattner says that the workers cost VW $27 per hour but that in Germany the figure for the average auto worker is $67 per hour.

...."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140203/OEM02/140139946/rattner:-u.s.-is-now-a-low-wage-auto-market#

VW is full of something, and it's not goodwill towards their fellow man.

Pete

[bobabode]

Hence, something is amiss.

I did say I would've voted for the union if I worked there.

Consider this:

"...
When Volkswagen opened its plant in Chattanooga in 2011 and hired 2,000 workers, Rattner says, "little attention was paid to the fact that the beginning wage for assembly line workers was $14.50 per hour, about half of what traditional, unionized workers employed by General Motors or Ford received."

With benefits, Rattner says that the workers cost VW $27 per hour but that in Germany the figure for the average auto worker is $67 per hour.

...."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140203/OEM02/140139946/rattner:-u.s.-is-now-a-low-wage-auto-market#

VW is full of something, and it's not goodwill towards their fellow man.

Pete

Agreed on VW management. I might've bought one of their products but given this latest, not a chance. My guess is that Corker was full of shit about the so called assurances he allegedly received and was using his bully pulpit to bugger the vote. Would that he could be censured for it but I ain't holding my breath.

[BlueStreak]

"...
When Volkswagen opened its plant in Chattanooga in 2011 and hired 2,000 workers, Rattner says, "little attention was paid to the fact that the beginning wage for assembly line workers was $14.50 per hour, about half of what traditional, unionized workers employed by General Motors or Ford received."



There's something that's amiss. I know people who work at GM in Lordstown. They do not start at anywhere near $29/hour, that's ridiculous. Last I heard, assembly line folks start at ~$18. A strong wage, sure, but not what these people are claiming. A millwright at topped out union scale makes ~$34/hour. Unless someone is counting benefit costs for union workers, but not VW workers.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you think is amiss, Pete. It seems pretty simple to me. Are you thinking maybe the German Works Council is trying to force the work out of the USA for some reason?

Dave

[BlueStreak]

I'm thinking that, if anything, the unions are finally catching up with globalism and finding ways to collaborate across international borders. They've always claimed to do that, but I don't believe it really amounted to much before. If so;

WORKERS OF THE WORD, UNITE!!!!!!!!;)

Dave

[Oerets]

Whenever a salary amount is used fringe benefits can be lumped into the total. Things like healthcare 401k match retirement vacation sick overtime anything to make the point they are after. That is how the hourly rate can seem be different the the actual pay per hour.



Barney

[BlueStreak]

Whenever a salary amount is used fringe benefits can be lumped into the total. Things like healthcare 401k match retirement vacation sick overtime anything to make the point they are after. That is how the hourly rate can seem be different the the actual pay per hour.



Barney

And, it's common to lump total costs for one side of a comparison, but not the other to skew the result.

Dave

[MrPots]

Thinking back, when I left high school in the 70's the job to have was at the Ford assembly plant in St. Louis. Paying $10 per hour, it was a high paying job....

I didn't get one, but still, I lived well enough on the $4.00 an hour job I had.

[Oerets]

Thinking back, when I left high school in the 70's the job to have was at the Ford assembly plant in St. Louis. Paying $10 per hour, it was a high paying job....

I didn't get one, but still, I lived well enough on the $4.00 an hour job I had.

The same seventies when I could fill up my bug on empty for under $3.00?



Barney

[MrPots]

Yea. If wages had only increased ten fold like prices did...

[djv8ga]

I have Mexican friends who claim the working conditions (not pay) in Mexican plants are better than they are in most of the plants here in Az.

[BlueStreak]

I have Mexican friends who claim the working conditions (not pay) in Mexican plants are better than they are in most of the plants here in Az.

My new supervisor is a Swede. He says he can't believe how top heavy and poorly run our plant is.

He's pushing for a revamp of the maintenance system that I think will be great, but he's facing a lot of resistance from both above and below. Management doesn't want to spend any money and goofy mechanics don't want to learn new tricks.

He got them to buy us all I-pads with a maintenance system loaded in them, so that all breakdowns, material issues, planned maintenance, etc. can be tracked and analyzed to pin down recurring problems, far more efficiently than with the old paper system that was pretty much ignored.

He also wants us all to learn vibrational and heat analysis to detect equipment failures before they cause downtime.

I think it's awesome. But, we'll see how it goes. The internal politics and the resistance to change in that place are ridiculous.

Dave

[JJIII]

.....


He got them to buy us all I-pads with a maintenance system loaded in them, so that all breakdowns, material issues, planned maintenance, etc. can be tracked and analyzed to pin down recurring problems, far more efficiently than with the old paper system that was pretty much ignored.

He also wants us all to learn vibrational and heat analysis to detect equipment failures before they cause downtime.



Dave

Makes too much sense. It'll never fly.

[piece-itpete]

Dave that system does sound awesome, and detecting issues before they break? Amazing.

Pete