America: The Grim Truth-----WOW!

[BlueStreak]

http://americathegrimtruth.wordpress.com/

I don't know how to respond to this, directly. Mainly because I do love my country. However, I have to admit, it's FULL of thoughts that have passed through my mind many times over my fifty years in this world.

I will say that I have visited a few countries that I definitely would not rather live in than America. That being said, I have seen the decline over my 50 years. Decline that is nothing short of shocking. And, I have visited countries that seemed a whole lot more livable than we have been led to believe.

I watch as powerful people, in both government and business, make promises of better days and every idea they feed us only seems to lead to more polarization, more disparity and more misery.

To my mind, the greatest lie of them all is that if we just give them whatever they want, that they will reciprocate in kind. In reality, if we make them another hundred million bucks, they give us a t-shirt, a pat on the back, a decrease of benefits and a reminder of how "fortunate" we are to have a job. Or, in other words, we're only "fortunate" that they don't screw us out of what little we have left. "Smile for the camera, folks and tell it how much you love us. Or we'll put you in the unemployment line. No, no.....Don't even think about standing up for yourself, 'cuz then everybody will think you're just a whining pussy. We've seen to that.;)"

I find it disheartening that so many of my fellow Americans still think this is how it's supposed to be. That "True Patriots" bust ass for chump-change and die penniless. Fools......All of them.

America in 2014- Double Plus Good with Belly-Feel, eh?

Dave

[finnbow]

His assessment is a bit harsh and sometimes counterfactual (70% of taxes used for the DoD budget???), but there's certainly a ring of truth to much of it. Having lived overseas for 11 years and visited over 60 countries, I'll be the first to say that there are a lot of countries that do a number of things better than we do. However, unlike the author, I also think there are also a number of things we do better.

There are certainly aspects of the northern European social-democratic model that I prefer to ours though. From healthcare to primary education to crime rates to vacation time to the quality of basic foodstuffs, they do a lot of things better than we do. South of the Alps is a different story though (except for the food, which is even better than northern Europe). The "haves" in our country have it as good or better than their northern European counterparts. However, the "have-nots" here aren't even close to having it as good as their northern European counterparts, and our system seems to create a lot more "have-nots" than theirs. What's amazing is that there are so many "have-nots" in the GOP base. Limbaugh, Hannity and O'Reilly must be real good at what they do.

[BlueStreak]

That's pretty much what I was thinking, Pat. America is my home and always will be for better or worse. But, that doesn't mean I don't see what's going on.

Dave

[merrylander]

As Finn noted it was a bit harsh but much depends on what part of America you are living in. In manystates the police are getting out of hand, we just had a recent case in Charm City of a 'volunteer' sergeant gottin way out of hand.

Having travlled extensively I have see a good many of the other countries first hand and would be perfectly at home in any of the ones I have visited. The funny part of this is that we were discussing what Florence should do and my advice is sell out and move to Canada near our son Brian. If she should go first I will be out of here like a shot.

[BlueStreak]

I could see myself, back at that sidewalk café overlooking the beach in Cannes with a bottle of wine, some fruit and a block of cheese watching les belles jeunes femmes stroll by. I could do that every day until I drop dead.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

I get what he's saying, but don't let the door hit'im on the way out.

Pete

[CarlV]

I am staying here but if I was young and going to be raising any children it most certainly would not be here in the USA. Maybe if we got the big one and it shook my house down then I probably would go elsewhere.


Carl

[merrylander]

I get what he's saying, but don't let the door hit'im on the way out.

Pete

To late Pete he has already left.

[Tom Joad]

As far as I am concerned our heathcare system by itself automatically disqualifys us from first world status.

[BlueStreak]

I get what he's saying, but don't let the door hit'im on the way out.

Pete

To late Pete he has already left.

Yes, he left.

Again, I agree that the article is over the top, but there is truth to be found in it and I'm pretty sure we all know it. In fact, I believe that's what all of the fuss is about, these days. We're arguing over how to fix it, is all.

Is this not the case?

Dave

[MrPots]

Arguing on how to fix it or fighting over whatever scraps are left?

[Boreas]

There are certainly aspects of the northern European social-democratic model that I prefer to ours though. From healthcare to primary education to crime rates to vacation time to the quality of basic foodstuffs, they do a lot of things better than we do.

Not just primary education. Their universities are excellent and there you get paid to go to college. Here you go into crushing debt and spend the first half of your working life paying it off...... if you can find a job.

South of the Alps is a different story though (except for the food, which is even better than northern Europe).

My daughter, in the Alps rather than south of them, has gone from thinking about returning to the States to planning to open a business in Merano (Meran - in the Sud Tyrol - to you Germanophiles).

John

[finnbow]

Not just primary education. Their universities are excellent and there you get paid to go to college. Here you go into crushing debt and spend the first half of your working life paying it off...... if you can find a job.

Unquestionably so, but our university system is still excellent, if overpriced. Also, university studies there (at least in Germany and the UK) are a lot more formal than here with a lot of dry lecturing and less give-and-take with the professors.

My daughter, in the Alps rather than south of them, has gone from thinking about returning to the States to planning to open a business in Merano (Meran - in the Sud Tyrol - to you Germanophiles).

John

Südtirol (aka Alto Adige) is one of the most beautiful and enjoyable places on the planet. Great food, great wine, beautiful scenery and fantastic skiing and windsurfing. What's not to like? When I lived in Augsburg, my best friend lived in Vicenza. We'd frequently met halfway to ski, windsurf at Lake Garda, or just eat and drink wine. We met there a few times during "Toerggelen (http://www.kalterersee.com/en/leisure-activities/food-drinks/toerggelen/)" times in the Fall. Good fun, though full of German tourists at that time.

[4-2-7]

http://www.speckfest.it/media/415x0/e7dc1a67-c845-40b8-99f8-28e08442b959/villnoesstal-2.jpg

[finnbow]

http://www.speckfest.it/media/415x0/e7dc1a67-c845-40b8-99f8-28e08442b959/villnoesstal-2.jpg

The area in that picture is home to some fine skiing. The nearby and justly famous Sella Ronda (http://www.sellaronda.info/eng/) is one of the world's great ski adventures. I've done it a number of times and my son did it last year.

[Wasillaguy]

I got a kick out of the suggestion that Costa Rica or the Phillipines would be good places to find more freedom. What a hack.

[d-ray657]

I got a kick out of the suggestion that Costa Rica or the Phillipines would be good places to find more freedom. What a hack.

How's it going up north in the home of rugged individualism? :) Yeah, it has been comical over the last few years to hear people complain that are under the control of a dictator.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Wasillaguy]

We're still enjoying the favorable jet stream. Record highs last week (48F), supposed to get to 34F today.

I was just in San Jose, Costa Rica, where everyone decorates their homes with bars on every window and door, and concertina wire on the top of every roof and fence.
That is, until you get out in the farm country. Suddenly you see normal looking houses that haven't been turned into little personal prisons.

So it turns out that in a country of about 5 million people, only about 12,000 have permits to own weapons. Who? Why the farmers of course, so they can do farming type stuff where they need weapons. Nice side benefit for them is they also get to live like normal humans. They don't need razor wire and iron bars to lock themselves away every night, cuz the bad guys know they got firearms.

They also got them some socialized medicine. Guide said if you know someone in the government or the military, you can get treatment, but the average Jose' can wait 3 or 4 years for an operation.

No prices on any of the gas stations. Why? Cuz the gov owns the only refinery, and sets the price. Everyone must sell at the same price, no competition. Somewhere around $6 to $6.50 a gallon.

They've been trying to build a highway to the coast for a dozen years now. Still not done, budget busted long ago.

Stayed at a real nice hotel, with absolute squalor all around. Roads are hideous, electric and cable tv wiring strung like crepe paper at a party, and rusty corrugated tin used for roofing, siding, fences, signs, and anything else they can think of.

Runaway inflation- the exchange rate went up in the 3 days I was there.

They couldn't even play a soccer game. Cancelled it before it started due to rioting in the stands.

I wouldn't retire there even if someone else paid for it.

You know you're in a great place when they charge you to leave. $27 U.S. to get out.

[bobabode]

Sounds like Nome Was. :rolleyes:

[piece-itpete]

....

You know you're in a great place when they charge you to leave. $27 U.S. to get out.

Is it a bargain? :)

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Costa Rica? My brother spent a week there a few years ago and still goes on about how much he loved it, although he did avoid the cities while he was there.

I've been to the Philippines four times. An American can live like a king there with $100 in his pocket. The countryside is beautiful and, for the most part, the people very friendly.

Never been to Costa Rica. But, I imagine that like the PI, it is a poor country and has been for a very long time, maybe forever, I don't know. Poverty carries with it certain problems. Crime, drugs and prostitution often among them.

But, I do know there are lots of reasons a nation can find itself economically challenged. And not all of them relate directly to politics.

Is it really all that realistic to assume that the presence of so(c)ialized healthcare in Costa Rica is the root of the nations economic woes? Do Germany and Canada have the same problems as Costa Rica?

Dave

[bobabode]

Is it a bargain? :)

Pete

It's an exit visa, they're not uncommon. Just a bit of paperwork to keep track of the riff raff visiting their country. ;)

[icenine]

We're still enjoying the favorable jet stream. Record highs last week (48F), supposed to get to 34F today.

I was just in San Jose, Costa Rica, where everyone decorates their homes with bars on every window and door, and concertina wire on the top of every roof and fence.
That is, until you get out in the farm country. Suddenly you see normal looking houses that haven't been turned into little personal prisons.

So it turns out that in a country of about 5 million people, only about 12,000 have permits to own weapons. Who? Why the farmers of course, so they can do farming type stuff where they need weapons. Nice side benefit for them is they also get to live like normal humans. They don't need razor wire and iron bars to lock themselves away every night, cuz the bad guys know they got firearms.

They also got them some socialized medicine. Guide said if you know someone in the government or the military, you can get treatment, but the average Jose' can wait 3 or 4 years for an operation.

No prices on any of the gas stations. Why? Cuz the gov owns the only refinery, and sets the price. Everyone must sell at the same price, no competition. Somewhere around $6 to $6.50 a gallon.

They've been trying to build a highway to the coast for a dozen years now. Still not done, budget busted long ago.

Stayed at a real nice hotel, with absolute squalor all around. Roads are hideous, electric and cable tv wiring strung like crepe paper at a party, and rusty corrugated tin used for roofing, siding, fences, signs, and anything else they can think of.

Runaway inflation- the exchange rate went up in the 3 days I was there.

They couldn't even play a soccer game. Cancelled it before it started due to rioting in the stands.

I wouldn't retire there even if someone else paid for it.

You know you're in a great place when they charge you to leave. $27 U.S. to get out.





The Koch Brothers would not mind an America like that if they could keep all the money they have. I can not talk about Costa Rica but I know about the Philippines because my wife is from there. There is no socialized medicine there I know from first hand experience....I pay for my in-laws health care all the time.

Your state of Alaska is kept afloat by my Federal tax dollars....imagine if Washington DC cut off your state from Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare and federal money in general? You r state would start to look like a very cold Costa Rica.


I find it funny how you conflate socialized medicine with poverty in developing nations.....a spurious correlation.

[Boreas]

Südtirol (aka Alto Adige) is one of the most beautiful and enjoyable places on the planet. Great food, great wine, beautiful scenery and fantastic skiing and windsurfing. What's not to like? When I lived in Augsburg, my best friend lived in Vicenza. We'd frequently met halfway to ski, windsurf at Lake Garda, or just eat and drink wine. We met there a few times during "Toerggelen (http://www.kalterersee.com/en/leisure-activities/food-drinks/toerggelen/)" times in the Fall. Good fun, though full of German tourists at that time.

Thanks for the spell check. ;)

At this point, I've lost any hope of things ever improving here in "The Land of the Free". We seem to have reached a tipping point, at every level, of governmental corruption, indifference and lawlessness. I don't see a way back or even a way to halt the decline. A revolution would just be a way for the government to eliminate those of us "surplus to requirements".

I hope I'm wrong but I've decided to start learning Italian.

John

[merrylander]

Thanks for the spell check. ;)

At this point, I've lost any hope of things ever improving here in "The Land of the Free". We seem to have reached a tipping point, at every level, of governmental corruption, indifference and lawlessness. I don't see a way back or even a way to halt the decline. A revolution would just be a way for the government to eliminate those of us "surplus to requirements".

I hope I'm wrong but I've decided to start learning Italian.

John

One of the advantages of having a linguist for a wife, she speaks Spanish, Italian, Portugese but her Japanese is getting a little rusty. I could always bone up on my French I suppose. Andalusia seems like a nice spot. Of course I still have no end of cousins in the UK. But New Brunswick is a lot closer, or Nova Scotia or the Island

[finnbow]

Thanks for the spell check. ;)

At this point, I've lost any hope of things ever improving here in "The Land of the Free". We seem to have reached a tipping point, at every level, of governmental corruption, indifference and lawlessness. I don't see a way back or even a way to halt the decline. A revolution would just be a way for the government to eliminate those of us "surplus to requirements".

I hope I'm wrong but I've decided to start learning Italian.

John

If you're hoping to find better governance in Bella Italia, good luck with that.;) They change governments about as often as I change my underwear. The wine, food, people and sights are awesome though.

[finnbow]

One of the advantages of having a linguist for a wife, she speaks Spanish, Italian, Portugese but her Japanese is getting a little rusty. I could always bone up on my French I suppose. Andalusia seems like a nice spot. Of course I still have no end of cousins in the UK. But New Brunswick is a lot closer, or Nova Scotia or the Island

Andalusia is awesome. Granada, Cordoba and Seville are all terrific with some of the finest historic architecture anywhere. The wine and tapas are pretty good too, as is the flamenco music. I can remember eating Carne de Toro finger sandwiches with red wine outside the bull ring in Seville. Good times.

[Wasillaguy]

Is it a bargain? :)

Pete

It certainly was. Would have been a bargain at twice the price.
Amusing to hear these advocates of "leveling the playing field" wax poetic of living somewhere they can be the rich, ruling class. Sure, you can go to Costa Rica or the Phillipines and live like a king.... on the backs of the extremely poor. I thought that was the problem here?
I also get a kick out of the people who take advantage of charities to fund their vacations (Houses for Humanity being one). Talked to a couple who came here to Wasilla on donated funds to help build houses, and oh yeah, also included were excursions to tourist spots on the weekends.
I'm thinking with the amount of money they put out in airfare, hotels, excursions, etc. they could have hired locals to build the houses. We have folks who do that here.

[finnbow]

It's an exit visa, they're not uncommon. Just a bit of paperwork to keep track of the riff raff visiting their country. ;)

Israel charged a pretty penny just to walk across the border into Jordan to visit Petra and Wadi Rum. I think it was upwards of $30 apiece. They didn't charge anything to fly out of the country from Ben Gurion airport, however. I think they just resent foreign tourists spending any money in Jordan.

[Dondilion]

I wouldn't retire there even if someone else paid for it.

You know you're in a great place when they charge you to leave. $27 U.S. to get out.

Thanks Wasi !

There is a city in Ecuador to which many Americans are retiring. However the leader of Ecuador has an anti-American streak.

Now why would an American retire to such a country?

[Wasillaguy]

Thanks Wasi !

There is a city in Ecuador to which many Americans are retiring. However the leader of Ecuador has an anti-American streak.

Now why would an American retire to such a country?

Because it's exactly like the U.S.?
ie. "leader has an anti-American streak"

[bobabode]

Because it's exactly like the U.S.?
ie. "leader has an anti-American streak"

Cute. :rolleyes:

[Dondilion]

Because it's exactly like the U.S.?
ie. "leader has an anti-American streak"

Nice one Wasi! :D

[Wasillaguy]

thanks, and we don't have to go into the whole explanation that all Ecuadorians are Americans, right?

[bobabode]

thanks, and we don't have to go into the whole explanation that all Ecuadorians are Americans, right?

You could cut to the chase and post up that photo shopped picture of the president looking like Hitler with 666 tattooed on his forehead.

[Wasillaguy]

You could cut to the chase and post up that photo shopped picture of the president looking like Hitler with 666 tattooed on his forehead.

Haven't seen that one, but I like the one where he's the ballerina and Putin is twirling him around.

[Dondilion]

Here it is, CUENCA Ecuador, the city which is attracting a lot of
American retirees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U95RyrqAtI0

[bobabode]

Haven't seen that one, but I like the one where he's the ballerina and Putin is twirling him around.

It's around here somewhere, search 4-2-7 s posts. ;)

[icenine]

Thanks Wasi !

There is a city in Ecuador to which many Americans are retiring. However the leader of Ecuador has an anti-American streak.

Now why would an American retire to such a country?

American retirement dollars go much further than the local currency......
one could probably eat for $2 or $3 a day if you ate where the locals purchase their food...even less if you did not use restaurants.

[icenine]

Because it's exactly like the U.S.?
ie. "leader has an anti-American streak"

you are much more un-American to me Was with that comment.

[piece-itpete]

That would be a photoshopped pic? :p

Pete

[Wasillaguy]

American retirement dollars go much further than the local currency......
one could probably eat for $2 or $3 a day if you ate where the locals purchase their food...even less if you did not use restaurants.

But you would be compelled to tip the waitress 600% so she could live by the same standard you do.

[Boreas]

If you're hoping to find better governance in Bella Italia, good luck with that.;) They change governments about as often as I change my underwear. The wine, food, people and sights are awesome though.

Governmental impotence has its up-side. :)

John

[bobabode]

That would be a photoshopped pic? :p

Pete

I had to correct spell check, go figure. ;)

[Dondilion]

American retirement dollars go much further than the local currency......
one could probably eat for $2 or $3 a day if you ate where the locals purchase their food...even less if you did not use restaurants.

I understand that, but if you consistently show that you hate America why I should I hand over American dollars to you?

[merrylander]

It certainly was. Would have been a bargain at twice the price.
Amusing to hear these advocates of "leveling the playing field" wax poetic of living somewhere they can be the rich, ruling class. Sure, you can go to Costa Rica or the Phillipines and live like a king.... on the backs of the extremely poor. I thought that was the problem here?
I also get a kick out of the people who take advantage of charities to fund their vacations (Houses for Humanity being one). Talked to a couple who came here to Wasilla on donated funds to help build houses, and oh yeah, also included were excursions to tourist spots on the weekends.
I'm thinking with the amount of money they put out in airfare, hotels, excursions, etc. they could have hired locals to build the houses. We have folks who do that here.

You are assuming that in order to be able to live on one's pension automatically means behaving like an asshole.

[piece-itpete]

I had to correct spell check, go figure. ;)

SUUUUUUURE you did lol.

Pete

[Boreas]

I understand that, but if you consistently show that you hate America why I should I hand over American dollars to you?

If you're able to accept that objecting to some of the actions of the American governmental and corporate interests vis-a-vis one's country is not the same as hating America, especially if you have sympathy for that point of view, why not?

John

[icenine]

I understand that, but if you consistently show that you hate America why I should I hand over American dollars to you?

I surmise that you have not travelled abroad, or at least to a developing nation...If I mistaken please forgive me. But most people all over the world are happy and excited to meet Americans, even if the stated policy of their respective nations' governments are not pro-American or friendly to us.
If you were to go to Tehran and walk into a jazz cafe I would think most Iranians in the place would want to talk about your musical interests...


in Latin America your neighbors would most likely not hate you if did not brag about your relative wealth or act like the ugly American; you might get tired of all your friends (in my case relatives and in-laws) hitting you up for cash to cover the never ending financial emergencies lol


plus you would have to get used to being relatively wealthy while being surrounded by poverty...however I do not think you would be subject to rabid anti-Americansim in a place like Costa Rica or Belize, etc

and the Philippines loves America so I am lucky

[piece-itpete]

If you're able to accept that objecting to some of the actions of the American governmental and corporate interests vis-a-vis one's country is not the same as hating America, especially if you have sympathy for that point of view, why not?

John

I see that a lot. In the US, the people are sovereign. Therefore 'we' should be viewed inseparable from the government.

Pete

[icenine]

But you would be compelled to tip the waitress 600% so she could live by the same standard you do.

no


you give them what would be considered a huge tip by THEIR economic standards.....you give a dollar for a three dollar cafe tab for example.

[icenine]

"Living like a king on your pension" is not living on the backs of the poor. If I do retire in the PI I will be giving a boatload of dollars to my relatives because I will not be able to really say no when my sister-in-law(s) need cash. Plus the money I would putting into the neighborhood and surrounding barangay would be substantial and good for business.
You have to remember many many Filipino-American citizens move back home for a variety of reasons. And many stay here.

[Boreas]

I see that a lot. In the US, the people are sovereign. Therefore 'we' should be viewed inseparable from the government.

Pete

Pete, if popular sovereignty was ever true, and I have my doubts, it sure isn't true any more. The only thing that counts any more is money.

John

[finnbow]

I understand that, but if you consistently show that you hate America why I should I hand over American dollars to you?

I've been to over 60 countries and haven't yet been to one that "hated America," other than maybe the USSR and DDR in 1981 (though I did not have much contact with locals outside of hotels and restaurants and most were so downtrodden that they didn't appear to like anybody or anything).

Many countries (actually, most countries) don't like our government and/or foreign policy, but nearly all like Americans (except perhaps the stereotypical "ugly American"). Interestingly, the people who are most often willing to express anti-American sentiments are from countries that we consider steadfast friends (England, Germany, France, Holland) in that the people there are generally well-educated/informed and willing to get into a political give-and-take and have had plenty of exposure to Americans (for better or worse).

People in Third World countries are mostly just trying to get by and realize that alienating foreign tourists isn't going to help them. They're mostly curious about the US, but few hold any animosity. Interestingly, the countries that I have visited that are the most gracious and hospitable to Americans have been Muslim (Turkey, Jordan and Morocco). The most inhospitable place I've been is Israel (arguably our closest ally in the world), though they're generally nasty toward anybody and everybody, including their own fellow citizens.

[piece-itpete]

John, if that's true (and I largely agree), then the logical extension bodes ill for both parties.

Finn, have you ever seen the PBS show on those guys that followed in Marco Polos footsteps? They were in Iran during the big America hate in day and talking to the participants :)

Pete

[finnbow]

John, if that's true (and I largely agree), then the logical extension bodes ill for both parties.

Finn, have you ever seen the PBS show on those guys that followed in Marco Polos footsteps? They were in Iran during the big America hate in day and talking to the participants :)

Pete

I haven't but know several people who have traveled to Iran. They all really enjoyed it. They said the people very much like American people, are very interested in our culture, and are extraordinarily hospitable. There are supposed to be some truly fantastic sights there.

[piece-itpete]

The Marco Polo guys (and Rick Steves) said the same thing. Perhaps we'll find out someday.

Pete

[Dondilion]

The most inhospitable place I've been is Israel (arguably our closest ally in the world), though they're generally nasty toward anybody and everybody, including their own fellow citizens.

Geez, I would not have guessed that.

[icenine]

"The living like a king" thing is sort of a myth....accomodations may be extremely cheap, but then again you get what you pay for....

and food prices have been going up so eating in a Western manner has become more expensive (i.e. going out to to eat in resturants catering to ex-pats)

the big difference ? An American can jump on a plane and escape if things do not work out.....the locals are stuck there.

[merrylander]

The most inhospitable place I've been is Israel (arguably our closest ally in the world), though they're generally nasty toward anybody and everybody, including their own fellow citizens.

Odd I was treated like a prince when I lectured there.:confused:

[donquixote99]

deleted by author

[finnbow]

Geez, I would not have guessed that.

I've been there twice, totally over a month there and my son lives in Tel Aviv.

Generally, I found most Israelis to be overtly rude and deliberately confrontational, even staff in the hospitality industry. My son has been there for over 1.5 years and, though he loves his job and generally likes life in Tel Aviv and has some close Israeli friends, he's sick of the rudeness/nastiness. He still travels to eastern and western Europe frequently and always remarks about how the nastiness in Israel upon his return always bums him out. Having a sweet, kind and gracious person serve you in a restaurant or bar is definitely the exception and not the rule. Walk across the border into Jordan and the people couldn't be nicer. Turkey takes the cake in this regard - warm, gracious, friendly, hospitable, generous, and humorous - truly delightful.

For the most part, I think it's a facade, kind of like it is with many New Yorkers/Long Islanders, though the Israelis certainly kick it up a notch or two - kinda like extremely nasty New Yorkers suffering 'roid rage. The Haredim (i.e., the ultra-orthodox) there take it to a completely different level altogether. Downright maliciously nasty.

[Dondilion]

For the most part, I think it's a facade, kind of like it is with many New Yorkers/Long Islanders, though the Israelis certainly kick it up a notch or two - kinda like extremely nasty New Yorkers suffering 'roid rage. The Haredim (i.e., the ultra-orthodox) there take it to a completely different level altogether. Downright maliciously nasty.

New Yorkers! Blacks and Hispanics from Brownsville.

Italians from anywhere in the city. :eek:

[bobabode]

New Yorkers! Blacks and Hispanics from Brownsville.

Italians from anywhere in the city. :eek:

How about Brighton Beach? ;)

[Dondilion]

How about Brighton Beach? ;)

They are a cool people with lots of retirees. The gangsters just wear the
appropriate clothes; typically a suit with turtle neck sweater...that is telling you who they are.

[Zeke]

Generally, I found most Israelis to be overtly rude and deliberately confrontational, even staff in the hospitality industry. My son has been there for over 1.5 years and, though he loves his job and generally likes life in Tel Aviv and has some close Israeli friends, he's sick of the rudeness/nastiness.

That's entitlement for you. :rolleyes:

[BlueStreak]

It certainly was. Would have been a bargain at twice the price.
Amusing to hear these advocates of "leveling the playing field" wax poetic of living somewhere they can be the rich, ruling class. Sure, you can go to Costa Rica or the Phillipines and live like a king.... on the backs of the extremely poor. I thought that was the problem here?
I also get a kick out of the people who take advantage of charities to fund their vacations (Houses for Humanity being one). Talked to a couple who came here to Wasilla on donated funds to help build houses, and oh yeah, also included were excursions to tourist spots on the weekends.
I'm thinking with the amount of money they put out in airfare, hotels, excursions, etc. they could have hired locals to build the houses. We have folks who do that here.

I meant "...live like a king." metaphorically, not as in "ruling over their lives" or running a slave wage plantation style business. It's just a fact that even a retirement income of less than $1,000 a month might be a strong income in a place such as the Philippines. Quite possibly better than living off of what our Scrooge Republicans think is a good working income here.:rolleyes:

Dave

[merrylander]

I see that a lot. In the US, the people are sovereign. Therefore 'we' should be viewed inseparable from the government.

Pete

Well they think they are, but having travelled abroad Florence and I did not meet this automatic hatred, even after they knew we were from America, Initially they always assumed she was Italian or Spanish and that I was from one of the Nordic countries. You know when going to a foreign country even if you can't speak the language learn two simple words - please and thank you - you sure can get a lot of mileage from them.

We found that people treated us the way we treated them, politess can go a long long way. The only truly rude people we encountered were American tourists in Geneva - go figure

[piece-itpete]

:applause: it seems politeness is a dying art Rob.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Well they think they are, but having travelled abroad Florence and I did not meet this automatic hatred, even after they knew we were from America, Initially they always assumed she was Italian or Spanish and that I was from one of the Nordic countries. You know when going to a foreign country even if you can't speak the language learn two simple words - please and thank you - you sure can get a lot of mileage from them.

We found that people treated us the way we treated them, politess can go a long long way. The only truly rude people we encountered were American tourists in Geneva - go figure

Same here. Even in France, the country ignorant people seem to think hates America the most, I found the key was to simply be polite and make an attempt to speak the language.

The only real rudeness I saw came from Dave Greenwald, an idiot from El Paso who considered French people speaking French in France to be an affront to visiting Americans. He let them know it, too. They treated him like shit after that and he couldn't understand why................... He vowed he would never return. I'm sure the French were heart broken at the news.

Dave

[merrylander]

:applause: it seems politeness is a dying art Rob.

Pete

Yeah you just have to visit any supermarket to see that.