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whell
04-13-2014, 06:05 AM
You liked him when he challenged the tenets of capitalism. Do you still like him now?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/pope-francis-calls-abortion-an-abominable-crime-in-strongest-remarks-to-dat2.html

In his brief address, Pope Francis quoted the document Gaudium et Spes of the Second Vatican Council, that says, “Life once conceived, must be protected with the utmost care; abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.”

merrylander
04-13-2014, 06:34 AM
So if you don't want them how about supporting contraception? As H.L. Mencken put it "Catholic women can use mathematics to prevent pregnancy but not physics or chenistry." Yet all those good catholic healthcare plans will pay for penis starch pills.

Despite his views regarding contraceptives he is still on the right track most of the time.

barbara
04-13-2014, 07:36 AM
The majority of catholic women have used contraception so perhaps the church teachings don't have much impact in this issue.

BlueStreak
04-13-2014, 07:51 AM
You liked him when he challenged the tenets of capitalism. Do you still like him now?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/pope-francis-calls-abortion-an-abominable-crime-in-strongest-remarks-to-dat2.html

In his brief address, Pope Francis quoted the document Gaudium et Spes of the Second Vatican Council, that says, “Life once conceived, must be protected with the utmost care; abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.”

Yes.

Dave

Oerets
04-13-2014, 07:58 AM
The majority of catholic women have used contraception so perhaps the church teachings don't have much impact in this issue.

Just seems like yesterday when the "Pill" became available. Really improved relationships.:) The younger generations take it for granted.
Would hate to be young again and they not be used because of some misplaced good intentions. Because unwanted pregnancies will continue to happen with ugly consequences.



Barney

finnbow
04-13-2014, 08:02 AM
I like him, though he's wrong on this issue. Why we would expect a celibate man to have a clue about sexuality and procreation?

d-ray657
04-13-2014, 08:21 AM
My wife and I don't agree on everything, and we have been together 33 years.

In any event, this Pope seems compassionate on many levels, which is great. I didn't get a chance to vote for him or against him, but with his constituency, it seems that an anti-abortion stance is necessary.

Regards,

D-Ray

Oerets
04-13-2014, 09:11 AM
I still think if one was honest with themselves. If men could get pregnant having unprotected sex, carry a child in their belly. There would be little discussion, with even less questioning about BC's impact. It would be legal the next day.


Barney

mpholland
04-13-2014, 10:07 AM
I still think if one was honest with themselves. If men could get pregnant having unprotected sex, carry a child in their belly. There would be little discussion, with even less questioning about BC's impact. It would be legal the next day.


Barney

No shit! I can get cranky and miserable with last nights dinner in my belly.

bobabode
04-13-2014, 11:28 AM
You liked him when he challenged the tenets of capitalism. Do you still like him now?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/pope-francis-calls-abortion-an-abominable-crime-in-strongest-remarks-to-dat2.html

In his brief address, Pope Francis quoted the document Gaudium et Spes of the Second Vatican Council, that says, “Life once conceived, must be protected with the utmost care; abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.”

Are you a Catholic Mike? If so did it bother you when attacked capitalism? Further, how about the Holy See's views on contraception?

BlueStreak
04-13-2014, 11:47 AM
I believe he is. Nothing wrong with that. Some of my favorite people are Catholics......Agnostics.....Jews......Atheists... ..Bhuddists.......whatever.

Just because I think your beliefs are silly and lampoon them viciously, doesn't mean I don't like you.

Dave

merrylander
04-13-2014, 12:44 PM
I believe he is. Nothing wrong with that. Some of my favorite people are Catholics......Agnostics.....Jews......Atheists... ..Bhuddists.......whatever.

Just because I think your beliefs are silly and lampoon them viciously, doesn't mean I don't like you.

Dave

One of my favourite people is a Catholic, she just does not go to Church anymore, neither one of us does.:D

Boreas
04-13-2014, 12:46 PM
You liked him when he challenged the tenets of capitalism. Do you still like him now?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/pope-francis-calls-abortion-an-abominable-crime-in-strongest-remarks-to-dat2.html

In his brief address, Pope Francis quoted the document Gaudium et Spes of the Second Vatican Council, that says, “Life once conceived, must be protected with the utmost care; abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.”

Why on earth should Pope Francis' opinion on abortion surprise anyone? The thing I find interesting is that he chose to avoid the related issue of contraception. Perhaps the pope is moving away from Rome's insupportable position on that subject.

John

bobabode
04-13-2014, 12:49 PM
One of my favourite people is a Catholic, she just does not go to Church anymore, neither one of us does.:D

Same here :). Patty says the church left her.

Boreas
04-13-2014, 12:49 PM
Are you a Catholic Mike? If so did it bother you when attacked capitalism? Further, how about the Holy See's views on contraception?

Yeah, he's actually Opus Dei but he won't cop to it.

John

merrylander
04-13-2014, 02:12 PM
Same here :). Patty says the church left her.

Actually I guess that was true for Florence as well, but we still help the good Sisters who taught her when we can. They really were a different lot. In my case I could simply not reconcile what they were telling me with 1 John 4:8.

noonereal
04-13-2014, 04:09 PM
You liked him when he challenged the tenets of capitalism. Do you still like him now?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/pope-francis-calls-abortion-an-abominable-crime-in-strongest-remarks-to-dat2.html

In his brief address, Pope Francis quoted the document Gaudium et Spes of the Second Vatican Council, that says, “Life once conceived, must be protected with the utmost care; abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.”

Whelly, Whelly, Whelly, Whelly, at it again.

Sorry Welly,you failed yet again.

Peace brother.

finnbow
04-13-2014, 04:48 PM
You liked him when he challenged the tenets of capitalism. Do you still like him now?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/pope-francis-calls-abortion-an-abominable-crime-in-strongest-remarks-to-dat2.html

In his brief address, Pope Francis quoted the document Gaudium et Spes of the Second Vatican Council, that says, “Life once conceived, must be protected with the utmost care; abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.”

I think he's seeking forgiveness for his earlier comments from Limbaugh and Palin.:eek:

bobabode
04-13-2014, 04:59 PM
I think he's seeking forgiveness for his earlier comments from Limbaugh and Palin.:eek:

That's a whole lot of Our Fathers and Hail Marys. :rolleyes: Hie thee to the blackboard, Whellie.

Tom Joad
04-13-2014, 05:15 PM
You liked him when he challenged the tenets of capitalism. Do you still like him now?

Like my old man used to say, before he left this shitty world, "half a loaf of bread is better than none"

finnbow
04-13-2014, 06:40 PM
I don't think Left's reaction to the Pope will be the same as the Right's was. The Right felt bushwhacked because the world's most prominent Christian voice strongly criticized their entire economic premise as being fundamentally against Jesus' teachings and and they have been busy for 30 years proclaiming themselves the party of Christianity.

His view on abortion has hardly bushwhacked the Left. Everyone has long since known what the Church's view on the subject was.

BlueStreak
04-13-2014, 07:13 PM
Yep. I still like the guy.

bobabode
04-13-2014, 08:22 PM
Isn't Pope Francis the first from the Society of Jesus?

Boreas
04-13-2014, 08:27 PM
Isn't Pope Francis the first from the Society of Jesus?

Yup and the Jebbies have always been a little bit mavricky.

John

bobabode
04-13-2014, 08:39 PM
Yup and the Jebbies have always been a little bit mavricky.

John

Maddenly rational at times in my experience.;)

bobabode
04-13-2014, 10:16 PM
Speak of the devil, he's on Sixty Minutes tonight. <I kid>

finnbow
04-13-2014, 10:21 PM
Speak of the devil, he's on Sixty Minutes tonight. <I kid>

We watched it. Well done.

bobabode
04-13-2014, 10:39 PM
You liked him when he challenged the tenets of capitalism. Do you still like him now?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/pope-francis-calls-abortion-an-abominable-crime-in-strongest-remarks-to-dat2.html





"In a different tack from previous popes, Pope Francis took the opportunity to link the pro-life message of the Church to his critique of the global economy, a major theme of this pontificate. “This economy kills. It considers the human being in himself as a commodity; a commodity that you can use and then throw away.” He added, quoting his own recent document Evangelii Gaudium, (http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-abortion-cries-out-in-vengeance-to-god-church-will-never-chang) “We started the culture of ‘waste’ that, indeed, is promoted” through abortion in which “even life is discarded.”"

I see the pope wasn't done slapping around the business leaders of this world in his speech. How about you ask your parish priest what he thinks of your question? You might want to do it in the confessional. Btw, I still like Pope Frank, Mike.:rolleyes:

bobabode
04-14-2014, 12:22 AM
We watched it. Well done.

Yup, he's a different kind of Pope, for sure. Looks to be some shaking up going on, I applaud their efforts.

d-ray657
04-15-2014, 06:11 PM
Where's the OP? I guess we disappointed him by not being up in arms about - gasp - the Pope being opposed to abortion.

Regards,

D-Ray

Dondilion
04-15-2014, 09:19 PM
I am a long time opponent of abortion. Therefore I welcome this orthodoxy.

MikeG22
04-15-2014, 10:18 PM
The church is against abortion, holy crap roll the press.

I feel like this pope seems to be trying to bring the church into the 21st century. The quitter didn't seem to do much besides piss certain groups off. I remember mass being in Latin and how much better it was when that was reformed. I wouldn't doubt before Francis is done you see the church change their stances on a few things but abortion will never be one of them.

Dondilion
04-15-2014, 11:31 PM
The church is against abortion, holy crap roll the press.

I feel like this pope seems to be trying to bring the church into the 21st century. The quitter didn't seem to do much besides piss certain groups off. I remember mass being in Latin and how much better it was when that was reformed. I wouldn't doubt before Francis is done you see the church change their stances on a few things but abortion will never be one of them.

No need to roll the press about abortion.. However no harm in restating the Church's stand.

As to pissing off others;this one has vexed the powerful with his comment: Money must serve, not rule. :D

merrylander
04-16-2014, 06:30 AM
I believe that abortion should be safe and rare which is why I am also for contraception. If a woman is casually using abortion as birth control (which is something that anyone who knows or has had a D&C know it utter BS) would you really want her raising children? Or if pregnancy would result in her death are you willing to care for her live children? If she is as poor as a churchmouse will you support the child? If you are not prepared to do all these things then perhaps you should simply apply your religious beliefs to yourself and let others follow their own beliefs.

Oerets
04-16-2014, 06:54 AM
I have a hard time with the taking of a life. But physically would never be faced with the prospects of being pregnant can not say what for sure I would do. I face the facts that when one is confronted with a unwanted or troubled pregnancy abortion though not pretty but an evil that will happen anyway legal or not.

A thought that germinated in my mind years ago, is if one truly believes in an afterlife, heaven and hell. Then just how can this be a problem? Now if secretly you believe in only one chance at this experience, nothing before or after then I can see a more valid argument.


Barney

merrylander
04-16-2014, 07:14 AM
Before the seventh month the foetus cannot survive outside the womb without massive intervention. This, to me suggests that nature, or God, does not consider "life" to be present. If medical evidence suggests afterthat point that continuing the pregnancy will endanger the mother's life there is a choice to be made, not an easy one but nevertheless it must be made.

In two marriages we faced the opposite, my first wife could not conceive despite surgery and extensive other considerations, so we adopted. (Other events led to the divorce.)

Florence and I were probably past child rearing age though I believe we would have produced some beautiful children, however Monsanto and a massive tumor put an end to any fantasies in that area.

Since the adoption laws here are so archaic few unwanted babies are adopted, hence the rush to adopt children from abroad. If you are dead set against abortion work with other like minded people to bring the adoption laws into the 21st centuury.

It is really quite simple, if the mother decides to go through with the pregnancy, she is the sole arbiter regarding abortion. If the father will not marry her then he gets in line with othet potential adopters. Visitation to the adopting home is done unannounced any time during the first six months. If no reason for ending the adoption occurs because of the visit (or visits) at the end of six months the birth certificate is issued in the name of the adopting parents. Finito; the child is theirs absent any other behaviour that would apply to natural parents.

I our case a young woman decided she would carry to term. In her honour I kept for him one of the names she had wanted for him, I owe her our son.

finnbow
04-16-2014, 07:17 AM
I'm personally anti-abortion, but politically pro-choice. In other words, I don't feel I have the right to impose my views in this area on others, particularly women.

BlueStreak
04-16-2014, 07:38 AM
I'm all for abortion being extended to 30 years of age.

Dave

Dondilion
04-16-2014, 08:04 AM
Abortion greatest evil is that it gnaws at people's inner civilized concept of
themselves.

No amount of rationalization can overcome that.

merrylander
04-16-2014, 08:04 AM
I'm all for abortion being extended to 30 years of age.

Dave

That depends how old is Paul ryan? I know it is too late in Mitch's case.:rolleyes: