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finnbow
01-13-2010, 06:43 PM
... and how it resulted from Haiti's deal with the devil. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nraknWoes

noonereal
01-13-2010, 06:53 PM
what can ya say?:rolleyes:

it's a strange world

Charles
01-13-2010, 06:55 PM
... and how it resulted from Haiti's deal with the devil. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nraknWoes

I remember even Shrub told PR to shut his pie hole due to his comments after 9-11.

Personally, I see any comment made by PR is simply a reflection on himself. As to his followers, there's a sucker born every minute.

Chas

noonereal
01-13-2010, 07:00 PM
Personally, I see any comment made by PR is simply a reflection on himself. As to his followers, there's a sucker born every minute.



bingo .

Charles
01-13-2010, 07:06 PM
bingo .

Wish you were chained to the bed a little closer to me.

I'd sneak ya something in a cake.

Chas

Fast_Eddie
01-13-2010, 07:07 PM
... and how it resulted from Haiti's deal with the devil. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nraknWoes

That's a little scary. What's a lot scary is that there are millions of people in this country who not only believe that bull shit, they practice it. And they're working real hard to run the country by those principals. Magic, superstition and voodoo. But Science isn't to be trusted.

Wonder why the rest of the world hates us? It's not, as Bush said, because they "hate freedom". It's because many think we're all like this ass hole. Unfortunately, they're not far wrong.

hillbilly
01-13-2010, 07:16 PM
I remember even Shrub told PR to shut his pie hole due to his comments after 9-11.

Personally, I see any comment made by PR is simply a reflection on himself. As to his followers, ***there's a sucker born every minute***.

Chas


I said that last sentence to my dad once about 18 years old. He grabbed me ( nearly nocked my teeth out ) and yelled these words to me with his veins bulging out of his neck ... '' yes! a sucker is born every minute! and every one of yuns'll be in Hell beggin' for ice-water! ''.

I started to remind him that church foke ain't sposed to pass judgement ... but being I still had my teeth in place, I figured I'd just keep 'em.

Fast_Eddie
01-13-2010, 07:25 PM
I said that last sentence to my dad once about 18 years old. He grabbed me ( nearly nocked my teeth out ) and yelled these words to me with his veins bulging out of his neck ... '' yes! a sucker is born every minute! and every one of yuns'll be in Hell beggin' for ice-water! ''.

I started to remind him that church foke ain't sposed to pass judgement ... but being I still had my teeth in place, I figured I'd just keep 'em.

An yeah I say to thee, beateth thy will into the Gentile. For mine is the great Bomb of Adam. And any whom shall oppose me shall be branded with the sign of the un-American.

Writewing
01-13-2010, 07:26 PM
This guy is just as insane as Obamas old pal Jeremiah Wright who we all remember said we deserved 911. Another "Leader" who is equally insane is
Louis Farrakhan with his anti Jew hell anti most everyone ideas.
Pat is a sad example of everything that is perverse about organizied faith and I put about as much thought into him as I do about the other two functional retards listed above.

d-ray657
01-13-2010, 07:32 PM
Let me see if I can say something nice about Pat Robertson. He has a better hairdo and better tailor than Fred Phelps.

Regards,

D-Ray

noonereal
01-13-2010, 07:33 PM
This guy is just as insane as Obamas old pal Jeremiah Wright who we all remember said we deserved 911. Another "Leader" who is equally insane is
Louis Farrakhan with his anti Jew hell anti most everyone ideas.
Pat is a sad example of everything that is perverse about organizied faith and I put about as much thought into him as I do about the other two functional retards listed above.

we agree

:)


(:rolleyes:this might bother me)

d-ray657
01-13-2010, 07:40 PM
This guy is just as insane as Obamas old pal Jeremiah Wright who we all remember said we deserved 911. Another "Leader" who is equally insane is
Louis Farrakhan with his anti Jew hell anti most everyone ideas.
Pat is a sad example of everything that is perverse about organizied faith and I put about as much thought into him as I do about the other two functional retards listed above.

Here is a perspective on Rev. Wright from that liberal rag, the Dallas Morning News.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/religion/stories/040808dnmetwrightchasm.442a11fb.html

Regards,

D-Ray

Charles
01-13-2010, 07:49 PM
Let me see if I can say something nice about Pat Robertson. He has a better hairdo and better tailor than Fred Phelps.

Regards,

D-Ray

I liked Jimmy Baker better. My kind of charlatan.

Loved those telephones ringing in the background.

Chas

Writewing
01-13-2010, 07:59 PM
Here is a perspective on Rev. Wright from that liberal rag, the Dallas Morning News.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/religion/stories/040808dnmetwrightchasm.442a11fb.html

Regards,

D-Ray

That article is a sad attempt to excuse the unexcusable.

Boreas
01-13-2010, 08:15 PM
Let me see if I can say something nice about Pat Robertson. He has a better hairdo and better tailor than Fred Phelps.

Regards,

D-Ray

Do you ever cross paths with that bastard?

John

d-ray657
01-13-2010, 08:18 PM
I have been trying to find a quote by Rev. Wright that said that the United States deserved the terrorist act that occurred on 9-11. I haven't found it. Apparently that belief comes from the comment used in his 9/11 sermon that "The chickens have come home to roost." He was actually quoting a comment made by a former Reagan terrorism official being interviewed on Fox news. I do not interpret it the same way as other forum posters. Here is an article from Anderson Cooper's blog.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/21/the-full-story-behind-rev-jeremiah-wrights-911-sermon/

What I do think is insane is the "compromises" politicians must make to be elected. See: http://www.antiwar.com/henderson/?articleid=12553

It is quite possible that our President threw Rev. Wright under the bus.

Regards,

D-Ray

Writewing
01-13-2010, 08:21 PM
I just wish it was a real bus.....you cant be so stupid to not see what Wright was talking about, oh you can try to fool me and at times you come close but I dont buy it. Your too smart for that and you know it, if your not snart enough to see that please wipe the drool off your chin before you kill another keyboard.

finnbow
01-13-2010, 08:23 PM
I just wish it was a real bus.....you cant be so stupid to not see what Wright was talking about, oh you can try to fool me and at times you come close but I dont buy it. Your too smart for that and you know it, if your not snart enough to see that please wipe the drool off your chin before you kill another keyboard.

WTF? To me, your post translates to "Don't confuse me with facts!":confused:

d-ray657
01-13-2010, 08:24 PM
Do you ever cross paths with that bastard?

John

Only in a very attenuated way. The Methodist Bishop for our conferences lost a son to AIDS. Accordingly, our church regularly received faxes from his group describing our Bishop with his favorite adjective/noun. I was at the church for some meetings when some of the faxes came in. I'm not sure if Mr. Phelps has been clued in that Jesus taught about compassion.

Although Phelps attended law school, I believe he has been disbarred.

Regards,

D-Ray

d-ray657
01-13-2010, 08:32 PM
I just wish it was a real bus.....you cant be so stupid to not see what Wright was talking about, oh you can try to fool me and at times you come close but I dont buy it. Your too smart for that and you know it, if your not snart enough to see that please wipe the drool off your chin before you kill another keyboard.

What was it I said recently about if you don't have a reasoned response to something you resort to ad hominem attacks. Notice that this is not a personal attack against you, but a comment on your debate strategy. Now if I were to say something like I don't know what you mean by "snart," I might be getting close to the tactics about which I speak.

And, by the way, I don't advocate the death penalty for anyone's ideas. I would not even wish that on Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilley or Fred Phelps. That does occur in the country so closely embraced by Bush - Saudi Arabia - where there have been executions lately for loosely defined heresy.

By the way, did you read any of the articles, or does information contrary to your mind-set frighten you?

Regards,

D-ray

Boreas
01-13-2010, 08:36 PM
Only in a very attenuated way. The Methodist Bishop for our conferences lost a son to AIDS. Accordingly, our church regularly received faxes from his group describing our Bishop with his favorite adjective/noun. I was at the church for some meetings when some of the faxes came in. I'm not sure if Mr. Phelps has been clued in that Jesus taught about compassion.

Although Phelps attended law school, I believe he has been disbarred.

Regards,

D-Ray

Man, how sad for your bishop. Phelps and his entire brood are completely beyond the pale.

I remember when Franken was still on Air America he had a conversation with Phelps' son or son-in-law. Franken asked him if Jesus truly was capable of hate. "Yessir," said the Phelpsite. "It's one of His finer qualities."

John

Fast_Eddie
01-13-2010, 08:47 PM
I just wish it was a real bus.....you cant be so stupid to not see what Wright was talking about, oh you can try to fool me and at times you come close but I dont buy it. Your too smart for that and you know it, if your not snart enough to see that please wipe the drool off your chin before you kill another keyboard.

With a compelling argument like that...

Well, I don't know, but I doubt Wright said we *deserved* 9/11. What he may have said, and I would agree, is that 9/11 didn't happen *only* because some nut jobs wanted to kill us. It's not popular to admit this and I'll be labeled un-American no doubt, but we have taken positions and actions as a nation that have indeed played a role in how many look at us. That's not excuse anyone who murders thousands of people. But it's ridiculous to pretend that we haven't contributed to the negative feelings many have toward us. Though Wright probably didn't say it exactly the way I did.

I for one do not believe that to be a patriotic American you have to believe that America never made any mistakes. This is a country that held black people as slaves. Again, I'm not excusing anyone for taking actions that are wrong and using our mistakes as justification. But we're being jingoistic fools if we pretend we are pure as the driven snow.

What I really regret is that the only public figures I can think of who have ever tried to state such an opinion are Wright and that jack ass up at CU. Damn, what was his name. Ah, Ward Churchill. Puts me in poor company. Though I think they both may have stated things in a more extreme manner than I have.

Take care,

Ed

merrylander
01-14-2010, 07:32 AM
You know, Jesus once said when asked which were the most important commandments, ". . .and the second is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Now it becaome clear to me at one point in my life that what that commandment says is that if you don't love yourself you cannot love others.

People like Robertson demonstrate just how screwed up they are in their own minds because what they attribute to other people is just what they think of themselves. I am just happy that I do not suffer from such a terrible affliction, because I do love myself. Oh don't worry, I am well aware of my faults and failings, but rather than project them onto others I simply try and do better the next time around.

Fast_Eddie
01-14-2010, 09:10 AM
I am just happy that I do not suffer from such a terrible affliction, because I do love myself.

I used to love myself all the time when I was thirteen. Mom said it would make me go blind.

Sandy G
01-14-2010, 09:48 AM
I hate to admit it, but Robertson is also an alumnus of my school, McCallie, class of '46. In fact, his 2 boys were there when I was, one graduated in '72, the other in '76, a year behind me. Didn't know the older one, was on a nodding acquaintance w/the younger one. About all I remember about either one is that both of 'em had HEADFULS of brilliant orange/red hair...Pat comes across as a warm, granfatherly type initially, but he's crazier than a Shithouse Rat, IMHO...An' as y'all would prolly concur, I know Crazy... We have some backwoods fundamentalist churches around here that in a lot of ways aren't a lot different than the towelheads who wanna fly airplanes into buildings..But our homegrown jokers seem to only want to off themselves-Drinking strychnine, handling Rattle-Headed Copper Moccasins, etc. I dunno, I think there shoulda been an 11th commandment, "Thou Shalt NOT be a Dumbass", but that's too clear & direct for most of 'em to understand...

merrylander
01-14-2010, 10:04 AM
Sandy hate to correct you but those are not towels they wear on their heads, They are really small sheets so the correct terminology is "little sheetheads"

Sandy G
01-14-2010, 10:22 AM
I stand corrected...(grin)

d-ray657
01-14-2010, 10:24 AM
Sandy hate to correct you but those are not towels they wear on their heads, They are really small sheets so the correct terminology is "little sheetheads"

:D:D:D:D:

Regards,

D-Ray

BlueStreak
01-14-2010, 10:27 AM
I remember even Shrub told PR to shut his pie hole due to his comments after 9-11.

Personally, I see any comment made by PR is simply a reflection on himself. As to his followers, there's a sucker born every minute.

Chas


Robertson is a lunatic, but has a constitutional right to spew his BS. Bush was only, once again, demostrating his disdain for the U.S. Constitution.

Dave

BlueStreak
01-14-2010, 10:30 AM
I said that last sentence to my dad once about 18 years old. He grabbed me ( nearly nocked my teeth out ) and yelled these words to me with his veins bulging out of his neck ... '' yes! a sucker is born every minute! and every one of yuns'll be in Hell beggin' for ice-water! ''.

I started to remind him that church foke ain't sposed to pass judgement ... but being I still had my teeth in place, I figured I'd just keep 'em.

Sounds like your Dad and my mother had a lot in common........and that's not a good thing. Not at all. Robertson, BTW, was one of her favorites. I was actually glad when she switched to Schuller.

Dave

d-ray657
01-14-2010, 10:41 AM
Robertson is a lunatic, but has a constitutional right to spew his BS. Bush was only, once again, demostrating his disdain for the U.S. Constitution.

Dave

I might have to (gulp) defend Dub on this one. I'm not sure of the exact circumstances of Dub telling PR to shut his pie-hole. If it was simply a request from an ally - i.e., Dub telling PR that the prez couldn't be affiliated with PR when he gets on the extreme, that's simply a matter of responding to expression with expression. Elected officials are entitled to the protection of the first amendment, but voters can use their ballots to respond. Similarly, President Obama can express his opinion that Fox is not a legitimate news organization, and he is not willing to appear on if as if it were. Fox is certainly capable of responding to that position. Now if a president were to remove someone from a public forum because the administration did not like the message on a t-shirt, that would interere with free expression.

Regards,

D-Ray

Regards,

D-Ray

BlueStreak
01-14-2010, 10:48 AM
Dudes, I live two miles from where that gibberish was filmed/tape/digitized/whatever. I could walk there on a nice day. It's not so bad today. I think the area has outgrown Robertsons ability to rule. But, when I moved here twenty five years ago, NOTHING happened without His High Holy Poobahs approval.

One day, years ago, my Sisters car broke down. A man stopped and asked us if we needed a ride.
We hopped in his truck and as he started down the road, he asked, "Have you found Jesus?" Being an even bigger smartass back then, I replied, "Didn't know he was lost."
Wendy chuckled. In heavy traffic, he slammed on his brakes and screamed at us, "Get out!! Right now!!! Get out you damned heathens!! I will not tolerate your presence for one more second!!" I'll be honest with you; With the crazy look, and the eyes darting back and forth between mine, and the glove-box, I was frightened. We got out. What a whackjob.

Moving back to Ohio or California was looking pretty good at that moment. But, I stuck it out, and this aspect of livin' in the swamp has improved quite a bit. But, I'm afraid it's about to get that way again.

Dave

BlueStreak
01-14-2010, 10:57 AM
Anybody here remember when he explained how sodomy causes earthquakes in California? As if sodomous acts, or earthquakes for that matter, only occur in Cali?:confused:

But, as has been stated, there are millions who hang on this weirdos every word.

Dave

merrylander
01-14-2010, 11:07 AM
Robertson is a lunatic, but has a constitutional right to spew his BS. Bush was only, once again, demostrating his disdain for the U.S. Constitution.

Dave

Yeah but if you or I ever publicly made the statements he does they would have us committed.:eek:

Boreas
01-14-2010, 11:07 AM
Anybody here remember when he explained how sodomy causes earthquakes in California? As if sodomous acts, or earthquakes for that matter, only occur in Cali?:confused:

But, as has been stated, there are millions who hang on this weirdos every word.

Dave

Well ya see, it's cuz we got so many of 'em. All that simontanuous ass-pounding sets up this crazy assed harmonica and then the house start a'rockin'! ;)

John

Boreas
01-14-2010, 11:10 AM
Anybody here remember when he explained how sodomy causes earthquakes in California? As if sodomous acts, or earthquakes for that matter, only occur in Cali?:confused:

But, as has been stated, there are millions who hang on this weirdos every word.

Dave

He said the same thing about hurricanes in Florida ("Dah dada dee dah deee dah").

John

merrylander
01-14-2010, 11:41 AM
Anybody here remember when he explained how sodomy causes earthquakes in California? As if sodomous acts, or earthquakes for that matter, only occur in Cali?:confused:

But, as has been stated, there are millions who hang on this weirdos every word.

Dave


Maybe if they were all in unison, like soldiers marching over a bridge?:rolleyes:

Sandy G
01-14-2010, 11:57 AM
I think at least some of these televangelists ARE sincere in their beliefs-At least at first. But after they develop a following, then it becomes increasingly one thing & one thing only-How to keep the ol' mazuma rollin' in by the bucketfuls, to support an over-the-top lifestyle in many cases. The only one that I think that has remained pretty much pure is Billy Graham. But even his "organisation" relies on pretty heavy-handed tactics-My granmother gave to him, Bible-a-Month club, & another couple. When we took over her finances around '99, & the monthly checks quit coming in, boy, did we get a lot of NASTY correspondence... I think I called one of 'em, & told 'em what I thought they oughta do w/their Bibles, my granmother was 99 years old, had lost her mind, was in the hospital, & I would appreciate it if we NEVER heard from them again. We never did. I can only imagine how much she'd shelled out over the years to those effin' bloodsuckers....And they ALL talk..."We got a Live One here...You oughta send a Plea out to her"...And here'd be MORE literature coming from Help Paco/Hadjii/Juliana Outta His/Her Mudhole Children's League...Grrrrr...

d-ray657
01-14-2010, 12:07 PM
I think at least some of these televangelists ARE sincere in their beliefs-At least at first. But after they develop a following, then it becomes increasingly one thing & one thing only-How to keep the ol' mazuma rollin' in by the bucketfuls, to support an over-the-top lifestyle in many cases. The only one that I think that has remained pretty much pure is Billy Graham. But even his "organisation" relies on pretty heavy-handed tactics-My granmother gave to him, Bible-a-Month club, & another couple. When we took over her finances around '99, & the monthly checks quit coming in, boy, did we get a lot of NASTY correspondence... I think I called one of 'em, & told 'em what I thought they oughta do w/their Bibles, my granmother was 99 years old, had lost her mind, was in the hospital, & I would appreciate it if we NEVER heard from them again. We never did. I can only imagine how much she'd shelled out over the years to those effin' bloodsuckers....And they ALL talk..."We got a Live One here...You oughta send a Plea out to her"...And here'd be MORE literature coming from Help Paco/Hadjii/Juliana Outta His/Her Mudhole Children's League...Grrrrr...

Yeah, it's best to not say anything bad about Billy Graham around my wife. But boy oh boy did I score some brownie points when I found a stack of CDs by the Happy Goodmans at the thrift store. She also used to get some grins out of watching Tammy Faye's make up run.

Regards,

D-Ray

merrylander
01-14-2010, 12:27 PM
I have one simple answer for all these televangelists - Matthew 6 1-24

Fast_Eddie
01-14-2010, 01:00 PM
I think at least some of these televangelists ARE sincere in their beliefs-At least at first. But after they develop a following, then it becomes increasingly one thing & one thing only-How to keep the ol' mazuma rollin' in by the bucketfuls, to support an over-the-top lifestyle in many cases. The only one that I think that has remained pretty much pure is Billy Graham. But even his "organisation" relies on pretty heavy-handed tactics-My granmother gave to him, Bible-a-Month club, & another couple. When we took over her finances around '99, & the monthly checks quit coming in, boy, did we get a lot of NASTY correspondence... I think I called one of 'em, & told 'em what I thought they oughta do w/their Bibles, my granmother was 99 years old, had lost her mind, was in the hospital, & I would appreciate it if we NEVER heard from them again. We never did. I can only imagine how much she'd shelled out over the years to those effin' bloodsuckers....And they ALL talk..."We got a Live One here...You oughta send a Plea out to her"...And here'd be MORE literature coming from Help Paco/Hadjii/Juliana Outta His/Her Mudhole Children's League...Grrrrr...

Honestly, I think for the most part they are all sincere and truely believe what they're on about. Thing is, that's kind of what scares me. When it's a con job, the'll give in once the opportunity to look important is passed and there is no profit in it. But when they are true believers, they're in the same catagory as the Islamic whack jobs that fly planes into buildings. Nothing will stop them.

I agree, Graham is a different deal. He's the kind of guy I probably wouldn't agree with all the time but wouldn't be offended by either. Trying his best to do what he thinks is right and probably doing more good than harm. Not my cup of tea, but I do respect him.

I remember when I was in College watching Robert Tilton. Remember him? Used to seak in toungues and tell foks that if they sent him a check, God would make sure they got their money back with interest. Called himself "The Prosperity Proffit". Told folks God wanted them to be rich and if they weren't they were doing something wrong. But nothing a donation couldn't fix. Guy eventually got into some kind of trouble with the whole thing and went away. But I can't imagine how many people he ripped off.

Boreas
01-14-2010, 01:09 PM
Honestly, I think for the most part they are all sincere and truely believe what they're on about. Thing is, that's kind of what scares me. When it's a con job, the'll give in once the opportunity to look important is passed and there is no profit in it. But when they are true believers, they're in the same catagory as the Islamic whack jobs that fly planes into buildings. Nothing will stop them.

Anybody remember Marjoe Gortner?

John

Fast_Eddie
01-14-2010, 01:16 PM
Anybody remember Marjoe Gortner?

John

As GW said, fool me once shame on... shame on... you... er, uh. If you fool me you won't get fooled again!

Sandy G
01-14-2010, 02:33 PM
I liked the send up of Tilton as "The Farting Preacher" on YouTube...An' Tammy Fay...I remember after all the shinola hit the fan w/her & Jimbo, they were selling T-shirts in Charlotte, "I ran into Tammy Fay at the Mall.." & it looked like the biggest, greasiest bug you ever saw just smacked into yr windshield... Of course, Tammy died pretty hard, karma's a B*tch...An' you boys oughta HEAR some of these rabid preachers on Sunday mornin' on some of the little AM daytimer stations around here...Hoo Boy !

merrylander
01-15-2010, 08:20 AM
Thanks, but the ones on FM are bad enough, used to be one on a frequency the same as or real close to a classical station I liked. Either they jacked up their daytime power too soon or it was an atmospheric bounce. I just had to shut the radio off.

Fast_Eddie
01-15-2010, 09:46 AM
You know, my mom used to watch Robert Schuller when I was a kid. He still around? He seemed like a legit guy. Always had something positive and uplifting to say. I don't have much respect for the ones that are always telling me the various things I've done that guarantee I'll burn in Hell. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. In the mean time, a little thought to set me on the high road for today goes a long way.

Boreas
01-15-2010, 10:04 AM
You know, my mom used to watch Robert Schuller when I was a kid. He still around? He seemed like a legit guy. Always had something positive and uplifting to say. I don't have much respect for the ones that are always telling me the various things I've done that guarantee I'll burn in Hell. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. In the mean time, a little thought to set me on the high road for today goes a long way.

Isn't he the guy with that huge glass and steel "cathedral" in Orange County? Man, that building says it all! Built with nickels from the rubes.

The one I always liked was Ernest Angley.

John

d-ray657
01-15-2010, 10:14 AM
Isn't he the guy with that huge glass and steel "cathedral" in Orange County? Man, that building says it all! Built with nickels from the rubes.

The one I always liked was Ernest Angley.

John

I believe it was called the "Crystal Cathedral."

Regards,

D-Ray

piece-itpete
01-15-2010, 10:18 AM
"Didn't know he was lost."


ROTFLMAO!! Man, that's funny.


I have one simple answer for all these televangelists - Matthew 6 1-24

Agreed!

You know, my mom used to watch Robert Schuller when I was a kid. He still around? He seemed like a legit guy.

Mr Peale vouched for him - so he's OK in my book.

If I can put Robertson aside for a moment, I happened to hear the official Haitian governments response to to the 'deal with the devil'.

They didn't deny it.

Pete

Boreas
01-15-2010, 10:25 AM
The iMan said he thought Robertson "should be put to sleep".

I would never say anything like that. :rolleyes:

John

Boreas
01-15-2010, 10:32 AM
If I can put Robertson aside for a moment, I happened to hear the official Haitian governments response to to the 'deal with the devil'.

They didn't deny it.

Pete

Haiti has its own indigenous religion, Obeah, based on African traditions. It's therefore quite understandable that they would pray to their god/gods for aid against the French. I suppose that it's also understandable that Christianists would equate Obeah with "devil worship".

John

piece-itpete
01-15-2010, 10:34 AM
They didn't make that distinction.

Pete

Boreas
01-15-2010, 10:52 AM
They didn't make that distinction.

Pete

I didn't see the thing you're talking about but I can imagine reasons why they wouldn't want to open a can of worms right now about "pagan religions". First, Haiti is now a very Catholic country. Heck, they even elected a Catholic priest as president - twice. His name is Jean Bertrand Aristide. Second, mention of their non-Christian past at this point could discourage religious charities from lending much needed assistance.

John

Fast_Eddie
01-15-2010, 10:55 AM
If I can put Robertson aside for a moment, I happened to hear the official Haitian governments response to to the 'deal with the devil'.

They didn't deny it.

They may believe it. I can only speak for myself, but for me, that's not the point. Hundreds of years ago they may have built a pentagram of fire and sacrificed virgins calling Satan by name to rise up and defeat the French. I don't really care.

Am I surprised that there are people in one of the most impoverished, uneducated places in the Western Hemisphere who believe in spells, magic and voodoo? Not at all. You expect those things in places that haven't had the benefit of progress and prosperity. At one time those traditions were prominent throughout the world. The Greeks had a hell of a society going and they still believed in a lot of weird magic stuff.

What I am surprised and frightened by is that a prominent television personality who is representative of a large voting coalition who has positioned himself as a political force in the most advanced and affluent country on the planet believes in voodoo, magic and superstition. What frightens me even more is that a not insignificant number of people who run our government believe likewise. I'm not saying it's a majority, but does anyone here think there are *no* members of Congress who would watch that and say, if only to themselves, "Pat is right"?

And think about what that means for a minute- I’m not implicating Christian theology here. That’s not what Robertson was talking about. He was talking about a voodoo ritual. And according to him, it worked. So according to Robertson and like-minded people, not only does God reigns Hell on unbelievers in this world, various other witchcraft, voodoo and satanic worship rituals are indeed effective.

So a man who is active in a significant manner in our political system might well envision terrorists who don’t bother to hijack planes at all but simply hold some pagan ceremony and make a sacrifice. He may see this as a legitimate threat that needs to be defended against. How does one defend against such a threat? I can only imagine. Maybe he would suggest that official American Defense policy is the evangelization of the entire world. If they were all fundamentalist Christians, there would be no more threat of voodoo terror. Mobilize our millitary might as Soldiers for Christ. Not so far off from what a lot of folks in the Middle East think they're doing when they strap bombs to themselves, is it?

By the way, agree or not with what I’m saying here, at least try to understand why this kind of rhetoric scares many of us. This is the kind of thing we’re afraid of when we hear someone like Sarah Palin speak- in tongues or otherwise.

Sorry, I got long winded again. Does anyone ever read these novels I post?

BlueStreak
01-15-2010, 10:59 AM
Read the whole thing, Eddie. And I concur wholeheartedly. No argument here.

Dave

d-ray657
01-15-2010, 11:02 AM
Sorry, I got long winded again. Does anyone ever read these novels I post?]

Huh, what was that you said? Oh, yeah, yeah, You're right dear.:rolleyes:

But seriously, you make sense. As I have said on these pages before, I would like to see the name of Christianity cleared from all of the baggage that has been dumped on it by those who are actually pursuing secular agendas.

Regards,

D-Ray

Fast_Eddie
01-15-2010, 11:05 AM
Read the whole thing, Eddie. And I concur wholeheartedly. No argument here.

Dave

Hell, I'm not even done with it. Can't stop tinkering with the words. It's a curse- what I do all day. But it's "good enough" now. Got to let it go. Need to write some crap they're actually paying me to write.

piece-itpete
01-15-2010, 11:10 AM
To quote an old friend of mine, 'I see what you're sayin' ' :)

But I'll explain. I don't expect you to agree, but perhaps understand my (our) position.

Satan is real. He does have some power.

There you go :)

Pete

Boreas
01-15-2010, 11:19 AM
Brilliant, Eddie! I especially liked this:

And think about what that means for a minute- I’m not implicating Christian theology here. That’s not what Robertson was talking about. He was talking about a voodoo ritual. And according to him, it worked. So according to Robertson and like-minded people, not only does God reigns Hell on unbelievers in this world, various other witchcraft, voodoo and satanic worship rituals are indeed effective.

Part of the the take-away for me her is just how devious that SOB Robertson is. The Haitians actually pleaded with their Obeah gods for help against the French and they won but if Robertson were to acknowledge that fact he would ber admitting that, as you said, other gods are not only real but powerful enough to defeat his god.

We can't have that. No sirree, Bub! (as in Beelzebub). So, Robertson tweaks the story a little bit and Obeah gods become Satan.

Now, every good Christian will recognize the power of the Devil, right? Every good Christian acknowledges the rivalry between the horned one and that old guy with the beard. Et voila! Instant existential struggle between good and evil.

John

merrylander
01-15-2010, 11:40 AM
To quote an old friend of mine, 'I see what you're sayin' ' :)

But I'll explain. I don't expect you to agree, but perhaps understand my (our) position.

Satan is real. He does have some power.

There you go :)

Pete

I suspect he may also have some taste and would not touch Robertson or Limbaugh with a stick.

What I can't understand is that we go around putting down poor little pit bulls and those two still live.

(Exits left humming "Onward Christian . . .")

piece-itpete
01-15-2010, 12:03 PM
I suspect he may also have some taste and would not touch Robertson or Limbaugh with a stick.

What I can't understand is that we go around putting down poor little pit bulls and those two still live.

(Exits left humming "Onward Christian . . .")

ROTFLMAO! This place is on fire today! :D

... and Obeah gods become Satan.


The Haitians have no illusions about it. This story is far from being new news, there was even a ceremony voiding the pact.

Pete

Boreas
01-15-2010, 12:05 PM
I just did a little research on the Haitian Revolution. The Haitian religion is what's called "syncretic". That means they folded their own religion into Christianity in order to disguise it and make its practice more acceptable to their colonial masters.

One of the ways they did this was to identify their various gods with Christian saints. God himself ("Bondye" for bon dieu, or good God) was above human concerns so the people besought the saints/lesser deities for redress. It turns out that the deity who blessed their revolution was their mother goddess Ezili Dantor. She's, of course, represented by the Virgin.

Tres interessant!

John

merrylander
01-15-2010, 12:24 PM
Am I surprised that there are people in one of the most impoverished, uneducated places in the Western Hemisphere who believe in spells, magic and voodoo? Not at all. You expect those things in places that haven't had the benefit of progress and prosperity. At one time those traditions were prominent throughout the world. The Greeks had a hell of a society going and they still believed in a lot of weird magic stuff.



Not surprised in the least, look at what some of our wing nuts believe and they alledgedly had the benifit of schooling.:rolleyes:

piece-itpete
01-15-2010, 12:37 PM
Next you'll be saying the world is round.

:o

Pete

Fast_Eddie
01-15-2010, 12:58 PM
Next you'll be saying the world is round.

:o

Pete

That would be admitting that the Bible is not an historical document.

And please, I know the arguments. We need not have that discussion. It's one of my favorite bits of fundamentalist cognitive dissonance. Love the tree at the center of the Earth (Daniel 4:10-11). May be there, who knows? But I guarantee you nobody has seen it. I’m going off to a corner now to speak with one of the four winds. Be back in a bit.

piece-itpete
01-15-2010, 01:34 PM
Oh nonono. That was a vision....

Pete

Fast_Eddie
01-15-2010, 01:44 PM
Oh nonono. That was a vision....

Pete

Come on, admit it. You had to look it up.

Just responding in fun. I know you weren't forwarding that as your arguement.

Having said that, it's a relatively weak argument. I mean, even if you’re having a vision your understanding of how the Universe is laid out is unlikely to change. Even if it did, you would probably feel some need to note that in this vision things were quite odd. Like you might say “I had a dream, and it was really cool ‘cause I could fly!”

The more common argument is semantic. But I like that even more because it acknowledges not only that the text of the Bible was written in another language, but also that translation, which no one argues was done by anything but human beings, involves interpretation. Quite a paradox for people who claim the Bible shouldn’t be interpreted at all but taken as literal fact.

Just mental gymnastics. Gotta stay limber with this group.

piece-itpete
01-15-2010, 01:51 PM
Yep, I'm busted! Been a while since I read that story.

It was a dream, by a pagan at that.

I read multple translations ;)

And boy, limber I ain't :D

Pete

Fast_Eddie
01-15-2010, 01:54 PM
Yep, I'm busted! Been a while since I read that story.

It was a dream, by a pagan at that.

I read multple translations ;)

And boy, limber I ain't :D

Pete

Dunno, you keep me on my toes.

Boreas
01-15-2010, 02:16 PM
The more common argument is semantic. But I like that even more because it acknowledges not only that the text of the Bible was written in another language, but also that translation, which no one argues was done by anything but human beings, involves interpretation.

The argument advanced is that of "divine inspiration". Even though the Bible was written, edited, translated, what have you by hooman beans, God oversaw the work and made sure no mistakes were made. It's more or less analogous to the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility where whatever the Pope says or does comes straight from God and is, therefore, perfect in every way.

John

piece-itpete
01-15-2010, 02:18 PM
A so :o

And visa-versa. Debate is good for the mind :nuts:

Pete

Fast_Eddie
01-15-2010, 03:11 PM
The argument advanced is that of "divine inspiration". Even though the Bible was written, edited, translated, what have you by hooman beans, God oversaw the work and made sure no mistakes were made. It's more or less analogous to the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility where whatever the Pope says or does comes straight from God and is, therefore, perfect in every way.

John

Not sure about that. Yeah, they claim the works written by all kinds of folks, revised and edited again and again were divinely inspired. But the translation falls down. Too many of them and they often disagree on meaning. So interpretation can't be avoided at that point. But there also can't be several absolute, infallible word's of God that don't say the same thing.

Quite the conundrum.

merrylander
01-15-2010, 03:19 PM
I don't think whoever wrote Revalations was divinely inspired, more likely smoking funny cigs.

Fast_Eddie
01-15-2010, 03:23 PM
I don't think whoever wrote Revalations was divinely inspired, more likely smoking funny cigs.

Been a long time since Catholic High School, but as I recall, written in prison and virtually in code.

stereocuuple
01-15-2010, 04:35 PM
all i can say is religon should be abolished and pat robertson is a fucking monster and should be in prison

Fast_Eddie
01-15-2010, 04:39 PM
all i can say is religon should be abolished and pat robertson is a fucking monster and should be in prison

Amen! :)

Writewing
01-15-2010, 04:51 PM
I dont agree with first part but that idiot makes it hard to argue the second.
The problem isnt religion its those who abuse its power.

stereocuuple
01-15-2010, 05:54 PM
all religon derives its power from abuse of the individaul mind. the fundamentalist of all sects only want to ensure their own survival and thats it.
no gods of any kind levels the field and makes all humankind the same. it makes us responsible for our own destiny and our own stupidity. we dont have religon because we need god we have religon because we are to fucking stupid to save ourselves and we need someone else to blame

noonereal
01-15-2010, 06:30 PM
all i can say is religon should be abolished and pat robertson is a fucking monster and should be in prison

short and to the point;)

Grumpy
01-15-2010, 06:50 PM
short and to the point;)


Glad to have you back posting on a regular basis my friend. :)

noonereal
01-15-2010, 06:53 PM
Glad to have you back posting on a regular basis my friend. :)

thank you :)

westgate
01-15-2010, 10:14 PM
The iMan said he thought Robertson "should be put to sleep".

http://www.bergproperties.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/don_imus.jpg
"an i weren't kiddin', neither! ask bernie."

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1817/753724540299582og6.jpg
"you be serious, eyemus-in-the-marn, b'jesus; just like me".

BlueStreak
01-16-2010, 02:40 AM
The problem isnt religion its those who abuse its power.

Agreed. So when are Hannity, Beck and Palin going to stop abusing it?

Dave

Boreas
01-17-2010, 10:04 PM
This is brilliant!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190365539998&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123

John

Weirdtastes
01-17-2010, 10:46 PM
This is brilliant!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190365539998&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123

John

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: I think I just might have to place a bid on this one, thanks for the link!!!

d-ray657
01-18-2010, 12:35 AM
I note that while this seller is promoting a product relating to a current issue, he/she is not profiting off he his/her brilliant idea. I guess us lefties are just to stupid to make a buck at every opportunity.

Regards,

D-Ray

d-ray657
01-18-2010, 12:47 AM
This is brilliant!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190365539998&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123

John

Be sure to check out all of the Q & A.

Regards,

D-Ray

Boreas
01-18-2010, 01:03 AM
I asked him to do a Sarah Palin doll.

John

d-ray657
01-18-2010, 01:32 AM
I asked where to stick the pin to give PR a pang of conscience.

Regards,

D-Ray

Sandy G
01-18-2010, 05:45 AM
Hehehehehehe....I can just see ol' Pat frothing at the mouth over this....That's ANOTHER big problem w/so many of these so-called Uber-Christian types...They have absolutely NO sense of humor at all, & cannot abide being made fun of, having their leg pulled, anything...Which is all the more reason to "Jump on 'em w/Both Feet...." & give it to 'em but good !

westgate
01-18-2010, 07:42 AM
This is brilliant!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190365539998&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123

John

I asked him to do a Sarah Palin doll.

John

I asked where to stick the pin to give PR a pang of conscience.

Regards,

D-Ray
now you can place a curse on/stick pins into one of his 'partners in crime' also!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190366170029 :D

merrylander
01-18-2010, 08:26 AM
The pill bottle, great touch!

Boreas
01-18-2010, 11:38 AM
I asked where to stick the pin to give PR a pang of conscience.

Regards,

D-Ray

Sadly, my request was denied since Sarah's witch doctor is apparently not a certified voodoo practitioner. :)

So far the two dolls are going for a combined price of almost $1,100.

John

Sandy G
01-18-2010, 12:26 PM
" Ooh-Eeh-Ooh-Ahh-ahh, Bing-bang, walla-walla bing bang..." Come on now, y'all remember THAT one, doncha ?!? (grin)

Boreas
01-18-2010, 12:35 PM
" Ooh-Eeh-Ooh-Ahh-ahh, Bing-bang, walla-walla bing bang..." Come on now, y'all remember THAT one, doncha ?!? (grin)

Sure I do! David Seville! (I think I quoted this somewhere in a Sarah Palin thread.)

My friend the witch doctor, he told me what to say.
My friend the witchdoctor, he told me what to do.
I know that you'll be mine when I say this to you.
Oh, baby, etc.

John

Sandy G
01-18-2010, 01:04 PM
Yep. "Witch Doctor", 1958 by David Seville/Ross Bagdasarian & the Chipmunks.