Malaysia Airlines Passenger Jet Shot Down over Ukraine

[whell]

Sadly, this sounds like collateral damage in the Russia - Ukraine conflict.

Interesting take from the Ukraine military:

A statement from the Foreign Ministry in Kiev said the plane had been "shot down."

"According to the General Staff of Ukrainian Armed Forces, the airplane was shot down by the Russian Buk missile system as the liner was flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters [33,000 feet]," the statement added. "Ukraine has no long-range air defense missile systems in this area. The plane was shot down, because the Russian air defense systems was affording protection to Russian mercenaries and terrorists in this area. Ukraine will present the evidence of Russian military involvement into the Boeing crash."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/malaysian-air-loses-contact-passenger-plane-ukraine/story?id=24599558

If its true that the Ukraine military has no ground to air assets in the area - an assertion that might be tricky to confirm - than that leaves the Russians. Also interesting are reports that the black box has been found and is on its way to ... Moscow?!

[Dondilion]

Lets say I am a cynical old man. :D

[finnbow]

Apparently, Ukrainian Security Services intercepted a call between the separatists and their Russian minders admitting they (seemingly accidentally) shot the plane down.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

[bobabode]

Accident or not, the Russian backed Ukrainian rebels just murdered 295 innocent people and now these same Cossacks have collected the black boxes and they're sending them to Moscow. Major f**k up and it's Vlad's fault.

[Dondilion]

Apparently, Ukrainian Security Services intercepted a call between the separatists and their Russian minders admitting they (seemingly accidentally) shot the plane down.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html


From the Ukrainian security services.

[bobabode]

Apparently, Ukrainian Security Services intercepted a call between the separatists and their Russian minders admitting they (seemingly accidentally) shot the plane down.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

I heard that one of these rebel officials tweeted a claim that they had shot down a Ukrainian cargo plane at the time the Malaysian plane went down, tweet now deleted

[donquixote99]

That is credible to me. An inexperienced crew might have targeted the aircraft without have the system in a safe mode, and fired inadvertently.

[finnbow]

From the Ukrainian security services.

I suppose you're hanging on Vlad's every word.:rolleyes: Hopefully, the Russians won't try to cover it up like they did when they shot down the Korean Airlines jet. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007#Political_events) That ended up blowing up in their faces. The Russia - Ukraine border is under enough western surveillance that a Russian coverup will again prove highly embarrassing.

Whoever did it will come out, guaranteed. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/07/17/when-airliners-get-shot-down-facts-get-skewed-quickly/?hpid=z1) Any denials will just add to the embarrassment for what likely was an accidental shoot-down of what the rebels thought was a Ukrainian transport plane.

[bobabode]

Lets say I am a cynical old man from Brighton Beach. :D

Fixed that for ya.;)

[bobabode]

Vlad blames Poroshenko's government.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews-live/liveblog/report-malaysia-airlines-plane-shot-down-over-ukrainian-airspace/?hpid=z2#c4f309cd-4387-4cd1-963d-226d29f08597

[finnbow]

Vlad blames Poroshenko's government.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews-live/liveblog/report-malaysia-airlines-plane-shot-down-over-ukrainian-airspace/?hpid=z2#c4f309cd-4387-4cd1-963d-226d29f08597

“This tragedy would not have happened if there was peace in this land, they would not have been renewed war-like actions in the southeast of Ukraine.”

With such a statement, he's as much as admitting that his boys did it, but trying to shift the blame to the Ukrainians. If the Ukrainians had done it, he would have gotten all indignant, fiery, chauvinistic and weird.

[Dondilion]

I suppose you're hanging on Vlad's every word.:rolleyes:

I am not hanging on anybody word; I am pointing out the source.

[finnbow]

I am not hanging on anybody word; I am pointing out the source.

I knew the source. I posted it.:confused:

[Dondilion]

I knew the source. I posted it.:confused:

No harm highlighting it.

[bobabode]

No harm highlighting it.

So, are you disputing it?

[finnbow]

It'll be interesting to see how Putin handles this. I checked out Pravda and Russia Today online. Of course, they both say that Ukrainians shot the plane down. They'll be backtracking soon enough, I bet.

Putin's had a bad couple of days. Obama slaps him with heavy economic sanctions for bringing "heavy weapons" into Ukraine and today his heavy weapons shoot down a civilian airliner and kill hundreds. The news about the airliner broke while he was on the phone with Obama complaining about the unjust sanctions. We'll see if the Europeans get off the dime, now that nearly 154 Dutch citizens were killed.

[bobabode]

Time to drag some murderous Cossack's sorry asses in front of the World Court at The Hague. :mad: 154 happy Dutch vacationers shot out of the sky at 33,000 feet makes me sick to my stomach. No excuse is good enough. :mad:

[icenine]

The Russian people have failed to preserve their democracy by allowing Putin to stay in power. He has facilitated both a civil war in Ukraine and the economic degradation of his developing nation. His macho leadership has resulted in big fucking mess that benefits no one.


I mean what other idiot would throw away the good points he earned in both bringing about the agreement to get the chemicals out of Syria and holding a successful Olympics (on which he spent $60 billion) in a matter of about a week. All for a new Soviet Union?
I guess modern Russia must really suck if they are nostalgic about the USSR.

[Dondilion]

The Russian people have failed to preserve their democracy by allowing Putin to stay in power. He has facilitated both a civil war in Ukraine and the economic degradation of his developing nation. His macho leadership has resulted in big fucking mess that benefits no one.


I mean what other idiot would throw away the good points he earned in both bringing about the agreement to get the chemicals out of Syria and holding a successful Olympics (on which he spent $60 billion) in a matter of about a week. All for a new Soviet Union?
I guess modern Russia must really suck if they are nostalgic about the USSR.

What democracy? The democracy controlled by Soros?

[Pio1980]

What democracy? The democracy controlled by Soros?

I'd trust George Soros over Putin any day on anything.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[bobabode]

I'd trust George Soros over Putin any day on anything.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

+1. Next thing you know the right will be screeching that it's all Obamas's fault. :rolleyes:

[finnbow]

Time to drag some murderous Cossack's sorry asses in front of the World Court at The Hague. :mad: 154 happy Dutch vacationers shot out of the sky at 33,000 feet makes me sick to my stomach. No excuse is good enough. :mad:

A bunch of the dead were AIDS researchers heading to a conference in Melbourne.

[bobabode]

A bunch of the dead were AIDS researchers heading to a conference in Melbourne.

I read that too. Just a visceral response on my part to seeing a tour guide to Bali in the wreckage. No disrespect intended toward the rest of the victims. :(

[icenine]

What democracy? The democracy controlled by Soros?

Well one thing is certain...The Russian Federation has the infrastructure for democracy....they have elections and a Duma. If it is not a democracy de facto they still have the apparatus to create one by instituting reforms and checks and balances. The longer he remains in power the less chance this has of happening but I think it is possible.

[Dondilion]

Well one thing is certain...The Russian Federation has the infrastructure for democracy....they have elections and a Duma. If it is not a democracy de facto they still have the apparatus to create one by instituting reforms and checks and balances. The longer he remains in power the less chance this has of happening but I think it is possible.

He is in power this long because Soros and his gang even after they were
kicked out still tried very hard to undermine and control the system.

[Oerets]

I listen to one of the talking heads last night saying Putin in trouble at home with the ultra right. Seems he not taking strong enough action, want to invade and take the portions of Ukraine they want.

We need to have a steady hand on the tiller, one who needs no reminder of the occurrences of only hundred years ago. On how fast events can spin out of control!





Barney

[icenine]

Putin loves to throw his weight around but this time 300 innocents were killed so we need some strong response from the Europeans.


I wonder why we cannot remove them as one of the permanent Security Council members...that would be a wake up call. Most likely that is impossible to do.

[whell]

I'd trust George Soros over Putin any day on anything.


To me, that's just trading one rich, egotistical, domineering asshole for another.

[Dondilion]

To me, that's just trading one rich, egotistical, domineering asshole for another.

A huge laugh!

[Pio1980]

To me, that's just trading one rich, egotistical, domineering asshole for another.

No, that would be the Koch gold dust twins here vs Putin there.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[icenine]

Doesn't it bother you that Putin has been in power for over a decade now and appears to be fixing elections? Not to mention his "stint" as Prime Minister under Mededyev. I guess he did not want to appear too obvious like the old Kremlin leaders like Stalin and Breshnev. And who ever replaces him someday will do the same thing, and could be worse than Putin.

[merrylander]

Doesn't it bother you that Putin has been in power for over a decade now and appears to be fixing elections? Not to mention his "stint" as Prime Minister under Mededyev. I guess he did not want to appear too obvious like the old Kremlin leaders like Stalin and Breshnev. And who ever replaces him someday will do the same thing, and could be worse than Putin.

That man (I use the word loosely) is evil personified, no way is there going to be someone worse.

[Dondilion]

Doesn't it bother you that Putin has been in power for over a decade now and appears to be fixing elections? Not to mention his "stint" as Prime Minister under Mededyev. I guess he did not want to appear too obvious like the old Kremlin leaders like Stalin and Breshnev. And who ever replaces him someday will do the same thing, and could be worse than Putin.

I yield to extenuating circumstances.

The oligarch Boris Berezovsky and his clique which became very powerful under the drunkard Yeltsin, brought the low level KGB colonel to succeed Yeltsin, but as a puppet.

Surprise, surprise Putin did not play their game. He instituted reforms, notably taxation. The oligarchs were jolted now that they had to pay reasonable taxes, that their political clout was reduced and the free wheeling disorganized system was over.

A lot of them resisted but then had to flee...Berezovsky. Abramovich, Gusinsky etc.

This inflamed papa George Soros, who tried all types of tricks -NGOs, funny demonstrations etc. Only a man of Putin capability could survive, could rebalance the state and save it from looters with foreign tentacles.

[bobabode]

I yield to extenuating circumstances.

The oligarch Boris Berezovsky and his clique which became very powerful under the drunkard Yeltsin, brought the low level KGB colonel to succeed Yeltsin, but as a puppet.

Surprise, surprise Putin did not play their game. He instituted reforms, notably taxation. The oligarchs were jolted now that they had to pay reasonable taxes, that their political clout was reduced and the free wheeling disorganized system was over.

A lot of them resisted but then had to flee...Berezovsky. Abramovich, Gusinsky etc.

This inflamed papa George Soros, who tried all types of tricks -NGOs, funny demonstrations etc. Only a man of Putin capability could survive, could rebalance the state and save it from looters with foreign tentacles.

Spin up some 'Pussy Riot' and have a martini Don.:rolleyes: :D

[nailer]

Many in the west who disparage Putin would be supporting him if they were Russians.

[finnbow]

Many in the west who disparage Putin would be supporting him if they were Russians.

If chickens had lips, they wouldn't have to eat with their peckers.:p

[Pio1980]

Many in the west who disparage Putin would be supporting him if they were Russians.

Like expat Germans in the USA did in the 1930s no doubt.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[bobabode]

Many in the west who disparage Putin would be supporting him if they were Russians.

Ronnie's Kids?

[bobabode]

Where's the OP? We need to hear how it's all Obie's fault :rolleyes:.

C'mon Mike, you know you want to say it.:rolleyes:

[nailer]

Well it is, isn't it? Let me think on this. Nope, it's George the Lessor's fault. Wait, it's really Clinton's responsibility. Thinking some more - Bush the Elder? Come to think of it, it's the seductive Ronald Regan's fault. Fuck it all, let's blame Truman.

[finnbow]

MOSCOW (AP) — A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2014/07/18/rebel-leader-gives-bizarre-account-of-plane-crash

Very classy guy.:eek::o

[finnbow]

Where's the OP? We need to hear how it's all Obie's fault :rolleyes:.

C'mon Mike, you know you want to say it.:rolleyes:

It seems the GOP is more than willing to oblige.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/republicans-respond-to-the-ukraine-crash-by-blaming-president-obama/

[donquixote99]

Well it is, isn't it? Let me think on this. Nope, it's George the Lessors fault. Wait, it's really Clinton's responsibility. Thinking some more - Bush the Elder? Come to think of it, it's the seductive Ronald Regan's fault. Fuck it all, let's blame Truman.

Aren't there some Ukes and Ruskies involved?

[donquixote99]

MOSCOW (AP) — A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2014/07/18/rebel-leader-gives-bizarre-account-of-plane-crash

Very classy guy.:eek::o

He's trying for 'big lie technique.' Doesn't get that there is such a thing as 'too big.'

[nailer]

Aren't there some Ukes and Ruskies involved?

They are the primary actors, but I wanted to be the first to blame Obama (in jest). There's always more than enough blame to go around.

[bobabode]

It seems the GOP is more than willing to oblige.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/republicans-respond-to-the-ukraine-crash-by-blaming-president-obama/

We came back from taking out an old friend and Korean war vet out for his birthday and turned on the boob tube. Lo and behold, there was McCain blathering on about how it was all the Obama administration's fault. No surprise there.
The only useful purpose that idiot serves is when he's shitting on the teabagger caucus in his own party. I wish he would do it more often.

[finnbow]

We came back from taking out an old friend and Korean war vet out for his birthday and turned on the boob tube. Lo and behold, there was McCain blathering on about how it was all the Obama administration's fault. No surprise there.
The only useful purpose that idiot serves is when he's shitting on the teabagger caucus in his own party. I wish he would do it more often.

Yeh, but he only shouts at the 'Baggers for being reluctant to follow his tired ass to war. They deserve each other after he picked Palin for VP.

[bobabode]

I'd love for the warmongering dinosaurs to STFU.

Here's an idea, for shitz and giggles... Let's have Liz Warren duke it out with that congenital idiot Rand Paul for the WH in '16. Oughta be a hoot.

edit - It'd be like beating a rented mule for Liz.

[icenine]

All Reagan did was go on TV and give a speech about how civilized countries do not shoot down airliners. Not that I am being critical about Reagan's speech but today's GOP will not give Obama the same respect as we did Reagan.


That dirtbag Limbaugh says it is a conspiracy to deflect attention away from the immigration crisis

WTF over

[icenine]

The rebels who control the area are letting the bodies just sit in the sun. I guess Putin can give them SAM missiles but cannot at least get some people in there to collect the bodies and put them in a refrigerated storage so the families of the victims can have some dignity for their loved ones.


This more than anything else shows you what Putin really is.

[donquixote99]

Anyone picking up bodies might pick up a piece of a missile or something. They have to 'sanitize' the site first.

[nailer]

Even I know that a crime scene is off limits until CSI has processed the site.

[finnbow]

The Russians and the separatists are going to do whatever they can (remove the missiles back to Russia, scrub the accident site, delete Internet postings made about the shoot-down, etc.) to create a certain level of plausible deniability (while accusing the Ukrainians) such that Russians and their trading partners in Europe can cling to a shred of doubt, thereby allowing their trade relations to stay intact.

[bobabode]

Poor Vlad. It's looking like the EU isn't going to stand for much more this. When you lose the Dutch peoples good will, you're screwed.

Even Frau Merkel is scolding the former KGB colonel.

[Dondilion]

Vlad will ride out this.
Ron Paul blames Soros...or rather Soros and his clique.

[donquixote99]

Vlad will ride out this.
Ron Paul blames Soros...or rather Soros and his clique.

If life actually was an Ayn Rand novel, Ron Paul might be right.... :rolleyes:

[bobabode]

Vlad will ride out this.
Ron Paul blames Soros...or rather Soros and his clique.

If Ron 'Fountainhead' Paul is such a leading member of what passes for intellect in the 'publican party? They're in worse shape than previously thought. :rolleyes:

[finnbow]

Vlad will ride out this.
Ron Paul blames Soros...or rather Soros and his clique.

You know that everybody is waiting with bated breath on a Ron Paul foreign policy utterance.:rolleyes: