The Truth about the Big D...........

[BlueStreak]

"Scorched Earth";

Whatever a tyrant can't control, he destroys.

Not just Flint, but Detroit and the rest of the Rust Belt was deliberately abandoned to show the American people who's boss and that the bosses HATE Democracy. Democracy, to my mind, is the very heart of freedom itself. Just as some may argue that the unions went too far, I would argue that those who dogmatically oppose them can also go too far. And, in fact history proves that they have and most likely will again. The long view presents a much different picture than the short-sighted one painted by those who oppose empowered labor, my friend.............

In advance to some of you who will hate the point of this thread;

Up Yours......;)

Dave

[ebacon]

While labor unions serve a vital purpose, there is no denying that Detroit auto workers misbehaved to a level that turned public opinion against them. To regain public trust, IMO, they will have to go beyond economic bargaining and enter the realm of earnest craftsmanship and mentoring. As far as I know the skilled trades always did that. It was the line workers that gave the unions a black eye. At least that is my perception.

[merrylander]

People have short memories Walter Reuther, head of the UAW was a brilliant man and a good citizen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Reuther


And to demonstrate the hysteria infecting the witch hunt at GM we were just issued recalls for the ignition switches on our fourteen year old Impala LSs. You know if you don't hang everything but the kitchen sink on the key chain you won't have problems.

[BlueStreak]

I can agree with both of the above posts.

Dave

[Dondilion]

In advance to some of you who will hate the point of this thread;

Up Yours......;)

Dave

A sign that your argument is weak.

[piece-itpete]

Detroit was INTENTIONALLY destroyed?

Pete

[Dondilion]

Detroit was INTENTIONALLY destroyed?

Pete

Please Pete use his exact word "DELIBERATELY".

And not only Detroit but the rust belt.

[piece-itpete]

Ah so kemosabe. 'DELIBERATELY'.

Sorry but isn't that a little tin-foil-hattish?

Pete

[Rajoo]

When one enters into a contract with a paymaster, the primary responsibility of the payee is to ensure that the paymaster remains solvent. Otherwise in the end, the contract however lucrative is useless.

[merrylander]

When Detroit was building gas guzzling land yachts it was not the union that designed them.

[BlueStreak]

Tin Foil hat? Not at all. Remember, many in my family worked in the automotive industry as I was growing up, both in management as well as hourly. I worked for 12 years at Federal-Mogul.

I'm not saying that auto executives just had a twisted determination to screw the city of Detroit, that's ridiculous. But, it's a fact that the industry had/has a hard-on for the UAW. Always has. I'm saying Detroit just happened to be where the U.S. auto industry was centered as the industry declined, the latter dragging down the former. Trust me, it's not just Detroit, many communities across the country have been adversely affected.

Some years ago, I'm thinking late 1980s-1990s my brother John, an engineer who at the time worked at General Motors/ Packard Electric Division, told me: "Something's wrong. Now, when we go into contract negotiations with the unions, upper management pretty much just gives them whatever they want. You don't do that unless you don't care anymore................"

I think he was onto something. In fact, it didn't take much at all to see that as they gave away the farm, they shipped more work out of the country. 'Sure, we can do that! Whatever you want, Bud!!'-------Because in a few years you won't be working for us anymore, anyways.

Timing is everything.

Get it?

Think outside of the box, Fellas. I'm thinking that's where the truth lies.

Dave

[piece-itpete]

If they were allowed to outsource they sure weren't giving the union whatever they wanted Dave :/

Areas have an economic life cycle regardless of how bad or good their leaders are, not saying the leaders have no control at all. Probably easier to screw things up worse though.

Pete

[Dondilion]

Think outside of the box, Fellas. I'm thinking that's where the truth lies.

Dave

The truth is simple...American consumers had more choices.

[BlueStreak]

Pete, Pete, Pete..............

Why would they so easily agree to things as ridiculous as the "Jobs Bank", unless they knew it didn't matter? So long as a given plant exists they have to pay temporarily laid off workers 90% of their pay for up to two years? That sounds like something a sarcastic bastard would do just before he shuts the plant down........... Really.

Trust me, the industry has a venomous hatred for the UAW. One of my uncles had some sort of kiss ass middle management job at the Lordstown plant until he retired. Those guys despise the union.

It would be a revelation to you to realize that large corporations plan and execute long term strategies?

Dave

[BlueStreak]

The truth is simple...American consumers had more choices.

So what? That doesn't have a fucking thing to do with it. As Rob pointed out, assembly line people don't design cars.

Love,
Dave

[piece-itpete]

I never said they loved each other....

Why do they make anything at all here then?

Pete

[BlueStreak]

I never said they loved each other....

Why do they make anything at all here then?

Pete

Beats me. Maybe because it keeps the bailout billions flowing?

Dave

[BlueStreak]

I never said they loved each other....

Why do they make anything at all here then?

Pete

Besides, I thought the reason manufacturing jobs were leaving was because of the federal corporate tax? If that were true, then it would be nationwide and not just certain parts of the country, now wouldn't it?

I smell a grudge f**k. I'm thinking somebody got mad because the little people got too "uppity".

Dave

[Dondilion]

So what? That doesn't have a fucking thing to do with it. As Rob pointed out, assembly line people don't design cars.

Love,
Dave

Design of cars was just a part of the package, once the Japanese had access to the American market it became a new game.

[BlueStreak]

Design of cars was just a part of the package, once the Japanese had access to the American market it became a new game.

Okay. Everyone is to blame but management. They are always the hapless victim of fate. Got it.:rolleyes:

Dave

[Dondilion]

Okay. Everyone is to blame but management. They are always the hapless victim of fate. Got it.:rolleyes:

Dave

That is not the thrust of your post.

The thrust is: Big Boss deliberately abandon Detroit and the Rust Belt to
show the rest of us who is boss.

My argument is: Detroit and the Rust belt occurred essentially because there
was a new kid on the block...the Japanese.

One can bitch that Big Boss was not sufficiently adroit in its response to the new environment. However your original charge is pure foam.

[finnbow]

That is not the thrust of your post.

The thrust is: Big Boss deliberately abandon Detroit and the Rust Belt to
show the rest of us who is boss.

My argument is: Detroit and the Rust belt occurred essentially because there
was a new kid on the block...the Japanese.

One can bitch that Big Boss was not sufficiently adroit in its response to the new environment. However your original charge is pure foam.

My sentiments exactly.

[djv8ga]

Datsun rolling out the 240Z caught the US mfgrs flat - footed.

[donquixote99]

Their feet were bolted down. They stayed flat-footed for 15-20 years there.

[BlueStreak]

Their feet were bolted down. They stayed flat-footed for 15-20 years there.

I remember hearing, "We got nothin' to worry about, we make the best damn cars in the world." Long after everyone outside the GM bubble knew better.

Dave

[Rajoo]

Their feet were bolted down. They stayed flat-footed for 15-20 years there.

Ford Pinto, Chevy Vega and Chrysler Omni/Horizon. ;)

[merrylander]

The thing is the Japanese government helped the likes of Toyota Nissan (Datsun) etc and slapped a big fat tarriff on any cars entering Japan while theirs came in here damn near free.

Sure the big three did put out some lousy cars but the playing field was anything but level.

[Pukka Sahib]

If you knew the amount of claims trading going on with the Detroit Chapter 9 bankruptcy case, you'd be more sanguine about the future of the city.

[piece-itpete]

Okay. Everyone is to blame but management. They are always the hapless victim of fate. Got it.:rolleyes:

Dave

No kidding. Their arrogance was breathtaking.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

If you knew the amount of claims trading going on with the Detroit Chapter 9 bankruptcy case, you'd be more sanguine about the future of the city.

I'm sanguine about it despite my ignorance of the details and specifics. I'm sanguine because it's a case where the assumption of failure has become self perpetuating. Very few businesses will even consider Detroit and people will only move TO Detroit if they absolutely HAVE to, based on negative reputation alone.

That sort of thing is extremely difficult to overcome.

Dave

[VanishingPoi]

"Scorched Earth";

Whatever a tyrant can't control, he destroys.

Not just Flint, but Detroit and the rest of the Rust Belt was deliberately abandoned to show the American people who's boss and that the bosses HATE Democracy. Democracy, to my mind, is the very heart of freedom itself. Just as some may argue that the unions went too far, I would argue that those who dogmatically oppose them can also go too far. And, in fact history proves that they have and most likely will again. The long view presents a much different picture than the short-sighted one painted by those who oppose empowered labor, my friend.............

In advance to some of you who will hate the point of this thread;

Up Yours......;)

Dave
If Detroit was a white neighborhood, they would have been bailed out along with the banks.

[Twodogs]

Who's been running the D. I've been saying for years "Why do they keep voting those fucking dems in"? Of course we know that's because they are all goose stepping union jack offs. I'm union, will retire in one year two months, and have never voted dem. Not that I would
n't have if they had ran a candidate I trusted and agreed with. My lawn, 2 acres across from the golf course, is lined with Republican signs. That after many threats from the union. Do you know we still have a goon squad. Maybe it's my policy of a loaded high caliber in every room of the house, or the 3 my wife packs everyday, but I think because of my "guns" and shoot first rep., nobody fucks with my signs. Run Ben Run!





"Scorched Earth";

Whatever a tyrant can't control, he destroys.

Not just Flint, but Detroit and the rest of the Rust Belt was deliberately abandoned to show the American people who's boss and that the bosses HATE Democracy. Democracy, to my mind, is the very heart of freedom itself. Just as some may argue that the unions went too far, I would argue that those who dogmatically oppose them can also go too far. And, in fact history proves that they have and most likely will again. The long view presents a much different picture than the short-sighted one painted by those who oppose empowered labor, my friend.............

In advance to some of you who will hate the point of this thread;

Up Yours......;)

Dave

[Twodogs]

Hey let me say I have always been a champion of Detroit. I give them credit for us being victorious in WWII. I also thinks is one of the saddest things happening right now in our country. You know it's fucking priorities, CA is doing fine all the sudden. Wasn't it just a couple years ago that they were toast? I'd feel jubilant if they took every tax dollar I ever paid in and used it to "fix" Detroit. Don't blame it on the gangs and blacks either. Until you've been shoved out of a womb into that situation, you don't need to comment. I feel Detroit will come back, and if takes WWIII, bring it.

[merrylander]

Well if we would level the damn playing field and tariff Asian imports the way they do our exports it would be a different story. All I ever see is people bad mouthing American cars yet Florence and I are still driving a pair of year 2000 Chev Impala LSs. The people at the garage were we have them serviced say they want first dibs if we ever decide to sell.

I see the commercials for Toyota, Mazda and Honda on TV and I have never seem such butt ugly cars in my life. And Nissan is not a hell of a lot better.

Oh and please don't tell me they are made here, assembled here in 'right to starve' states is more accurate.

[Twodogs]

Well if we would level the damn playing field and tariff Asian imports the way they do our exports it would be a different story. All I ever see is people bad mouthing American cars yet Florence and I are still driving a pair of year 2000 Chev Impala LSs. The people at the garage were we have them serviced say they want first dibs if we ever decide to sell.

I see the commercials for Toyota, Mazda and Honda on TV and I have never seem such butt ugly cars in my life. And Nissan is not a hell of a lot better.

Oh and please don't tell me they are made here, assembled here in 'right to starve' states is more accurate.

Couldn't agree more. My wife's last three were various forms of the Envoy and 200k was getting good an d broke in. I think we got that Jap cars are better rap, in late 70s early 80 when we had to start building fuel efficient tiny cars to compete, and the Japs had been doing it for years and years, There as a curve, but we've definitely caught and passed them. I believe it was Honda who thought an interference engine with a timing "belt" was a good deal. That has to be in the top ten worst engineering feats. Unless they wanted to sell you a new motor every 100k, because that's about how long the belt lasted. Seemed they always give it up at highway speed too, which would insure at least bent valves.:D

[donquixote99]

Hey let me say I have always been a champion of Detroit. I give them credit for us being victorious in WWII. I also thinks is one of the saddest things happening right now in our country. You know it's fucking priorities, CA is doing fine all the sudden. Wasn't it just a couple years ago that they were toast? I'd feel jubilant if they took every tax dollar I ever paid in and used it to "fix" Detroit. Don't blame it on the gangs and blacks either. Until you've been shoved out of a womb into that situation, you don't need to comment. I feel Detroit will come back, and if takes WWIII, bring it.

WWIII would likely take Detroit and other urban centers to radioactive rubble, with untold millions broiled, blasted to dust--or done in about 1/3 by such effects and left to die a slow death.

I don't think it's a good economic recovery plan.

[bobabode]

Still drivin' a Fix Or Repair Daily, though I downsized to six banger Ranger from the F250 5.8L Super Duty Gasshole. It's nice not having two tanks to fill up every damn week.

[mpholland]

In the last 3 decades I have owned mostly domestic rigs. My 89 Camaro died at 140K. My 93 Grand Prix lasted to about 140K. My 99 Grand Am got a new tranny at 130K. My 04 Dakota was just about finished with its second tranny at 130K. My first import, a 93 Protege that I bought at 140K went to 240K with no issues. My wifes 09 Corolla went 100K with no issues bu a water pump. I now have a '15 Tacoma, and a '15 Corolla and won't apologize to Detroit. Hell, the '13 Road Glide probably has more oriental parts on it than domestic.

[finnbow]

Couldn't agree more. My wife's last three were various forms of the Envoy and 200k was getting good an d broke in. I think we got that Jap cars are better rap, in late 70s early 80 when we had to start building fuel efficient tiny cars to compete, and the Japs had been doing it for years and years, There as a curve, but we've definitely caught and passed them. I believe it was Honda who thought an interference engine with a timing "belt" was a good deal. That has to be in the top ten worst engineering feats. Unless they wanted to sell you a new motor every 100k, because that's about how long the belt lasted. Seemed they always give it up at highway speed too, which would insure at least bent valves.:D

Just about every manufacturer has some interference designs. I suppose it's the price you pay to maximize the compression ratio for highest efficiency/performance.

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/List_Of_Interference_Engines

[Boreas]

That has to be in the top ten worst engineering feats. Unless they wanted to sell you a new motor every 100k, because that's about how long the belt lasted.

That's why they recommend changing the belt every 60,000 miles.

[Tom Joad]

That's why they recommend changing the belt every 60,000 miles.

Yeah, and that's going to cost you what?

$800 bucks at the dealer?

Or maybe a cool $1000?

I dunno, but that's one of the main reasons I got a 4 cylinder Honda Accord instead of a 6. The 4 has a chain.

[merrylander]

^^^Not at the garage we go to.

[Tom Joad]

^^^Not at the garage we go to.

If you have one you can trust, stick with them.

They are not that easy to find.

I've found a few like that in my time, but I've found more that are either scamers, or they are run by Larry, Darrel, and Darrel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN6UAzYY8qg

[Boreas]

I dunno, but that's one of the main reasons I got a 4 cylinder Honda Accord instead of a 6. The 4 has a chain.

The '92 Accord EX I used to have didn't. :mad:

The 2.3L Ford Rangers I've had were "non-interference" engines. I lost a belt in one of them and it didn't damage the engine at all. I replaced the belt myself in a couple of hours.

Those are really bulletproof engines. Ford uses it as their workhorse small pickup engine and in the past it has been made in turbo and diesel versions, all were tough to kill.

John

[Tom Joad]

The '92 Accord EX I used to have didn't. :mad:

The 2.3L Ford Rangers I've had were "non-interference" engines. I lost a belt in one of them and it didn't damage the engine at all. I replaced the belt myself in a couple of hours.

Those are really bulletproof engines. Ford uses it as their workhorse small pickup engine and in the past it has been made in turbo and diesel versions, all were tough to kill.

John

I won't own anything other than a Toyota or a Honda.

I drove American cars from 1963-1990, then I switched to Japanese.

The change was dramatic.

I'll never go back.

I'm too old to deal with an unreliable piece of shit.

[Boreas]

I won't own anything other than a Toyota or a Honda.

I drove American cars from 1963-1990, then I switched to Japanese.

The change was dramatic.

I'll never go back.

I'm too old to deal with an unreliable piece of shit.

There really isn't any difference any more, especially since most of the Japanese cars we buy are made right here.

American car companies do a very decent job these days.

John

[merrylander]

There really isn't any difference any more, especially since most of the Japanese cars we buy are made right here.

American car companies do a very decent job these days.

John

There are two 15 year old Chev Impala LSs in the garage that say they have been doing a damn good job for quite some time. After her time teaching in Japan if I was silly enough to bring home a rice burner Florence would set fire to it in the driveway.:)

[piece-itpete]

Can you send her on a tour of the country? :)

Interesting segue in a thread about the death of Detroit. What do you think Dave?

Pete

[donquixote99]

Can you send her on a tour of the country? :)

Pete

HA!

Of course she wouldn't have to burn Detroit products from the bad decades. They'd self-destruct long before she could get to very many of them.

[piece-itpete]

Lol I think they already did. Seen a 1980 Imperial lately? :p

I tell jap car owners I'll be happy to give them a ride home from the junkyard in my 03 Grand Marquis a few years hence ;)

Pete

[Pio1980]

Lol I think they already did. Seen a 1980 Imperial lately? :p

I tell jap car owners I'll be happy to give them a ride home from the junkyard in my 03 Grand Marquis a few years hence ;)

Pete

Is it the de Sade edition?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[donquixote99]

Lol I think they already did. Seen a 1980 Imperial lately? :p

Pete

Ha. You'd have had to hunt to find a 1980 Imperial in 1980.

[Tom Joad]

Lol I think they already did. Seen a 1980 Imperial lately? :p

I tell jap car owners I'll be happy to give them a ride home from the junkyard in my 03 Grand Marquis a few years hence ;)

Pete

That Grand Marquis is fine if you want a big hole in your garage where you can throw money.

[Tom Joad]

There are two 15 year old Chev Impala LSs in the garage that say they have been doing a damn good job for quite some time. After her time teaching in Japan if I was silly enough to bring home a rice burner Florence would set fire to it in the driveway.:)

Yeah but you're one of those older than dirt old dudes that keeps it in the garage except for once a week when you make a three mile round trip to get groceries. Of course is lasts forever. A car owned by a senior citizen is the next best thing to keeping it in a time capsule.

[bobabode]

is it the de sade edition?

Sent from my sm-n900v using tapatalk



bam!!!!

[hillbilly]

Couldn't agree more. My wife's last three were various forms of the Envoy and 200k was getting good an d broke in. I think we got that Jap cars are better rap, in late 70s early 80 when we had to start building fuel efficient tiny cars to compete, and the Japs had been doing it for years and years, There as a curve, but we've definitely caught and passed them. I believe it was Honda who thought an interference engine with a timing "belt" was a good deal. That has to be in the top ten worst engineering feats. Unless they wanted to sell you a new motor every 100k, because that's about how long the belt lasted. Seemed they always give it up at highway speed too, which would insure at least bent valves.:D\

You don't want to see what happens when a GM 2.2 or a Ford 4.6/5.4 jumps time. The GM 2.2 isn't hard to replace a head on.. 200.00 for a reman head with warranty, another 300 for gaskets, timing set and labor.. total 500 is what I get for them when that happens. I can't do the OHC/DOHC GM's for that though, just the cam in block engine.

But if a Ford F150 ( or any model Ford ) OHC 4.6/5.4 timing set lets go? Holy shit most folks say after a quote.. and I even charge 1200.00 less than the dealer, and the garage in town will not even tackle them peroid. It's a serious pain in the ass doing that job between the fenders, but I don't have a 2 post lift so I have no way to remove the cab to gain room to get tools to the rear part of the engine. I do it without raising the cab off frame though, just takes me longer doing it the hard way.

Those engines are chain driven and I've seen several let go with less miles than a belt driven with original belt.

[icenine]

Can you send her on a tour of the country? :)

Interesting segue in a thread about the death of Detroit. What do you think Dave?

Pete

You still with us? I thought you must have went ice fishing on Lake Erie and stayed out there too long lol;)


My Honda CRV is at 299,433 this AM here at work...Maybe by Saturday or Monday I hit the big 300,000. One thing is that this CRV does not have a timing belt and I do not seem to have the water pump issues I did with my old 94 Civic.

On base there is a Honda 2004 standard Civic with 125,000 mile on it...
they want $5900...too much? Maybe it could go 300,000 too.


Well I just checked the listing online it is gone someone got it.

[icenine]

Lol I think they already did. Seen a 1980 Imperial lately? :p

I tell jap car owners I'll be happy to give them a ride home from the junkyard in my 03 Grand Marquis a few years hence ;)

Pete

I bet my CRV could make it back to Ohio tomorrow if I had to....I drive 450 miles back and forth to work each week.

[BlueStreak]

Lol I think they already did. Seen a 1980 Imperial lately? :p
I tell jap car owners I'll be happy to give them a ride home from the junkyard in my 03 Grand Marquis a few years hence ;)

Pete

Actually, yes, I did. About six months ago at the grocery store in pristine condition. Beautiful car.

Same color and wheels as this one;

2495

[BlueStreak]

I bet my CRV could make it back to Ohio tomorrow if I had to....I drive 450 miles back and forth to work each week.

Good for you.

My '97 Dakota sits at 225,000 miles presently, I drive it ~70 miles a day commuting to work.

So what is your point?

Dave

[BlueStreak]

There really isn't any difference any more, especially since most of the Japanese cars we buy are made right here.

American car companies do a very decent job these days.

John

Yep. However, John, you are talking to people who will cite a Pinto they had in high school 40 years ago as proof that every Ford, GM or Chrysler product ever built is a piece of shit. Completely ignoring all of the 40+ year old American branded vehicles still in use.

It's called "narrowmindedness".

Dave

[icenine]

When it hits 300,000 let me know.

[BlueStreak]

When it hits 300,000 let me know.

Okay, I will.

[BlueStreak]

When it hits 300,000 let me know.

Know anyone who collects antique or vintage Datsuns? I'm sure they're out there.....somewhere............... Just as lame and boring as they where way back when.

[icenine]

Know anyone who collects antique or vintage Datsuns? I'm sure they're out there.....somewhere............... As lame and boring as they where way back when.

No...
my point was that Pete was saying he will give rides to people who drop off there Japanese cars the junk yard lol.

I think you should make double trips to work so you can hit 300,000 like I will ;)

[icenine]

no affiliation

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/cto/4953543601.html

[Boreas]

When it hits 300,000 let me know.

Robbin, 300k is way beyond the norm for any car (except maybe those old Merc diesels). On the other hand, 100k, which used to be a big deal, is nothing to get excited about any more.

John

[BlueStreak]

No...
my point was that Pete was saying he will give rides to people who drop off there Japanese cars the junk yard lol.



Yeah, so? Do you really believe Japanese cars never breakdown? That's funny, I have passed quite a few, sitting by the side of the road, over the years.

Are you trying to make the "Everybody knows......" argument or the "Some people say........." argument? :p

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Robbin, 300k is way beyond the norm for any car (except maybe those old Merc diesels). On the other hand, 100k, which used to be a big deal, is nothing to get excited about any more.

John

Yep.

Dave

[Boreas]

Know anyone who collects antique or vintage Datsuns? I'm sure they're out there.....somewhere............... Just as lame and boring as they where way back when.

I had a 1977 Accord, bought new. When it got to 150k the engine was still fine and I was still on the original clutch!

But one day it basically broke in half. The chassis had rusted through at the firewall.

Like American cars, Japanese cars have always had their strengths and weaknesses.

John

[Tom Joad]

There really isn't any difference any more, especially since most of the Japanese cars we buy are made right here.

American car companies do a very decent job these days.

John

I don't care. I gave American Cars more than a fair chance. I gave them second, third, and fourth chances. They blew it. I'm done with them and I'm never going back.

[BlueStreak]

I don't care. I gave American Cars more than a fair chance. I gave them second, third, and fourth chances. They blew it. I'm done with them and I'm never going back.

^^^My point made in three sentences.^^^

Dave

[Tom Joad]

^^^My point made in three sentences.^^^

Dave

You're Goddamned right!

I wouldn't go back to my Ex-Wife either. :mad:

[Dondilion]

I don't care. I gave American Cars more than a fair chance. I gave them second, third, and fourth chances. They blew it. I'm done with them and I'm never going back.

Went for a walk around the park and was struck by the preponderance of Japanese company cars. It seems like NY consumers are of the same opinion...they are not going back.

[hillbilly]

Yeah, so? Do you really believe Japanese cars never breakdown? That's funny, I have passed quite a few, sitting by the side of the road, over the years.

Are you trying to make the "Everybody knows......" argument or the "Some people say........." argument? :p

Dave

Yes, they all break down at some point, I had a Nissan Altima come in with 77,000 miles that a local woman bought brand new. She lost oil pressure, the oil light wouldn't go out. I screwed a test gauge in place of the oil pressure switch and sure enough, it had ''some'' pressure cold but as soon as it warmed up a bit it was dead on zero. So I pulled the timing cover ( the oil pump gears are built in the cover and crankshaft runs through the center of the gear ). What I found was GOBS of shavings and glitter that had ran through the gears and chewed the gears up. But it was clear where they came from as when I pulled the two piece oil pan off ( timing cover on these cannot be removed with pan in place ) I found both the cam chain tensioner arm and guide both ground up in the oil pan in pieces. 77,000 miles, and we are talking about an engine that was always serviced and never had the gas pedal mashed to the floor in it's life. Anew timing set, and oil pump/timing cover assembly & good cleaning out and she ran with perfect oil pressure.

With that said, I see some of about all makes and models with 200k or more still running great with no major repairs and some have even been badly dogged. I see much more good luck than I do bad when under the hoods. I just sent a Ford F150 out of here the other day that had 256k and the 4.6 ran super.. used for pulling a horse trailer, hauling hay, travel to work, etc and isn't but a half ton. Only reason it was here was fix the number 1 and 2 missfires ( which they were told was a blown head gasket being he was having to add coolent every few days and nobody else wanted to tackle pulling a head or heads off it ). Upon my inspection the missfires were simply from a coolent leak which I found to be the plastic intake had cracked behind the right front corner and the coolent ran down in the plug holes shorting out #1&2 coil packs. He was quoted over 2k to repair it and I fixed him up for under 500. The new Dorman intake was 168.00 and a complete set of 8 new coil packs were 49.00... and a set of plugs which wasn't much. The new intake is re-designed and has O-ring seals that came with it. Took hardly any time to fix that one, it was gravy. Dealers will break it off in ya.. gotta watch'em boys. They just assumed the thing had a blown head gasket without honestly making sure it didn't, and in this case the guy was darn glad a friend sent him to me. I don't ask for anything that comes here, once a mechanic.. it follows you even when your getting old and don't really want to fool with the stuff anymore. Hard to say no if you know someone is fixing to get the shaft though. I really don't ask a penny from some, I just do it for them if I think they are in a pinch. I've my hardships and haven't forgot the folks who were there for me and I pay it fwd the only way I know how.

[Dondilion]

Hello HillyBilly I would like to read your post but it is difficult to do so.

Could you insert some paragraphs. It would make it easier on the old eyes.

Thanks a lot.

[icenine]

Well I am saying that I think most Hondas go into the 250s fairly regularly.

My Civic went to 289,000 and some dude gave me $500 bucks for it even though it was not running.

When I get may house paid off I was thinking about a new F150 with the aluminium body so I load them up with old consoles before I gut them for the tubes lol.

I think buying a used Honda or Toyota with 50k or less is a no brainer.

[icenine]

Robbin, 300k is way beyond the norm for any car (except maybe those old Merc diesels). On the other hand, 100k, which used to be a big deal, is nothing to get excited about any more.

John

I know but I feel like I had something to do with it!;)

[hillbilly]

Hello HillyBilly I would like to read your post but it is difficult to do so.

Could you insert some paragraphs. It would make it easier on the old eyes.

Thanks a lot.

Sorry about that. I do the best I can. I've learned to spell better but still learning the rest.

[BlueStreak]

Yes, they all break down at some point, I had a Nissan Altima come in with 77,000 miles that a local woman bought brand new. She lost oil pressure, the oil light wouldn't go out. I screwed a test gauge in place of the oil pressure switch and sure enough, it had ''some'' pressure cold but as soon as it warmed up a bit it was dead on zero. So I pulled the timing cover ( the oil pump gears are built in the cover and crankshaft runs through the center of the gear ). What I found was GOBS of shavings and glitter that had ran through the gears and chewed the gears up. But it was clear where they came from as when I pulled the two piece oil pan off ( timing cover on these cannot be removed with pan in place ) I found both the cam chain tensioner arm and guide both ground up in the oil pan in pieces. 77,000 miles, and we are talking about an engine that was always serviced and never had the gas pedal mashed to the floor in it's life. Anew timing set, and oil pump/timing cover assembly & good cleaning out and she ran with perfect oil pressure.

With that said, I see some of about all makes and models with 200k or more still running great with no major repairs and some have even been badly dogged. I see much more good luck than I do bad when under the hoods. I just sent a Ford F150 out of here the other day that had 256k and the 4.6 ran super.. used for pulling a horse trailer, hauling hay, travel to work, etc and isn't but a half ton. Only reason it was here was fix the number 1 and 2 missfires ( which they were told was a blown head gasket being he was having to add coolent every few days and nobody else wanted to tackle pulling a head or heads off it ). Upon my inspection the missfires were simply from a coolent leak which I found to be the plastic intake had cracked behind the right front corner and the coolent ran down in the plug holes shorting out #1&2 coil packs. He was quoted over 2k to repair it and I fixed him up for under 500. The new Dorman intake was 168.00 and a complete set of 8 new coil packs were 49.00... and a set of plugs which wasn't much. The new intake is re-designed and has O-ring seals that came with it. Took hardly any time to fix that one, it was gravy. Dealers will break it off in ya.. gotta watch'em boys. They just assumed the thing had a blown head gasket without honestly making sure it didn't, and in this case the guy was darn glad a friend sent him to me. I don't ask for anything that comes here, once a mechanic.. it follows you even when your getting old and don't really want to fool with the stuff anymore. Hard to say no if you know someone is fixing to get the shaft though. I really don't ask a penny from some, I just do it for them if I think they are in a pinch. I've my hardships and haven't forgot the folks who were there for me and I pay it fwd the only way I know how.

Yeah, I do all my own maintenance on the truck. Oil change every 3,000 miles, etc., etc....... So far the most major work I've done is the heater core and the timing chain. A friend of mine who owns a repair garage wanted $800 to do the heater core. Did it myself for.........$40. Sometimes it's awesome, being a wrench monkey aint it, Dave?:D

It also recently had misfire issues on #2 and #5. Luckily all it turned out to be was a loose rotor cap. Total bill for that; $0.:)

She looks kind of rough, rust on the roof, a few dents and scratches, headliner drooping...........But she runs strong as a team of Clydesdales.

But, it does go through ball joints. I think I've done the whole set three times. I've gotten good at it, it only takes me about 15 minutes per.

Dave

[Tom Joad]

Yeah, I do all my own maintenance on the truck. Oil change every 3,000 miles, etc., etc.......

I used to do some work on them back when I was young and broke and could only afford to buy beaters to drive. But now I prefer to pay to have it done. Plus the newer vehicles have got no room under the hood to work on stuff and you have to be a rocket scientist plus have thousands of dollars of special tools to work on them.

My son's buddy was just bitching about how he was trying to do a simple job on his boat motor, but one of the screws he had to undo was situated in such a way that there was no way to get to it unless you had this special tool that costs $150. I know they design shit like that on purpose.

Up until fairly recently I was still doing my own oil changes, but when I got my Accord I quit that too. It's so low I can't get under it without jacking it up and I do not go under jacked up cars. I don't care how many heavy duty jack stands they have holding them up.

Back when I was 17 I had a 56 Oldsmobile almost fall on me. I was working under it and I saw my bumper jack (yeah, I know, no jack stands, Darwin award material) start to slip and I rolled out from under it just in time. But it scared the shit out of me and I have a phobia about getting under vehicles ever since.

[merrylander]

Have not been under a car for years and don't plan on doing it ever again.

[Dondilion]

Plus the newer vehicles have got no room under the hood to work on stuff and you have to be a rocket scientist.



I hate that!

[BlueStreak]

I used to do some work on them back when I was young and broke and could only afford to buy beaters to drive. But now I prefer to pay to have it done. Plus the newer vehicles have got no room under the hood to work on stuff and you have to be a rocket scientist plus have thousands of dollars of special tools to work on them.

My son's buddy was just bitching about how he was trying to do a simple job on his boat motor, but one of the screws he had to undo was situated in such a way that there was no way to get to it unless you had this special tool that costs $150. I know they design shit like that on purpose.

Up until fairly recently I was still doing my own oil changes, but when I got my Accord I quit that too. It's so low I can't get under it without jacking it up and I do not go under jacked up cars. I don't care how many heavy duty jack stands they have holding them up.

Back when I was 17 I had a 56 Oldsmobile almost fall on me. I was working under it and I saw my bumper jack (yeah, I know, no jack stands, Darwin award material) start to slip and I rolled out from under it just in time. But it scared the shit out of me and I have a phobia about getting under vehicles ever since.

I have owned the Challenger for going on six years, now. Every last bit of the maintenance is done at the Dodge dealership, oil changes....everything. I don't even wash it myself. I take it to a detailer over in Virginia Beach.

But, it's not because I can't.

Dave

[hillbilly]

Yeah, I do all my own maintenance on the truck. Oil change every 3,000 miles, etc., etc....... So far the most major work I've done is the heater core and the timing chain. A friend of mine who owns a repair garage wanted $800 to do the heater core. Did it myself for.........$40. Sometimes it's awesome, being a wrench monkey aint it, Dave?:D

It also recently had misfire issues on #2 and #5. Luckily all it turned out to be was a loose rotor cap. Total bill for that; $0.:)

She looks kind of rough, rust on the roof, a few dents and scratches, headliner drooping...........But she runs strong as a team of Clydesdales.

But, it does go through ball joints. I think I've done the whole set three times. I've gotten good at it, it only takes me about 15 minutes per.

Dave

Last year a lady brought me a 3/4 Ton Dodge Van that needed ball joints. The lowers were easy.. simple press fit to control arms. But the uppers were threaded in the control arms and rusty. Had to order a 3/4'' drive 2-9/64'' special ball joint socket. They were so darn hard to get out I had to actually dig a 2 foot deep hole with post hole diggers, stood a piece of 4x4 up in it and used it to place my feet against because I had been digging up the ground with my boots and slipping trying to pull the 4 foot cheater pipe with all I had in me. I got them out one tiny squeak & pop at a time. I hardly ever sweat.. but that time I was soaking wet. :eek: