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View Full Version : Vatican considers to bury homophobia!


HarmanKardon
10-13-2014, 02:27 PM
According to the latest news of "Zeit online" the Vatican is going to revolutionize their attitude towards homosexuality. They say, homosexuals are a treasure and may enrich the Christian community. A corresponding statement will be published next weekend.

Hey that is something. Conservative Pope Benedict used to call homosexual people "abnormals".

Tom Joad
10-13-2014, 04:08 PM
I like this new head mackerel snapper.

I wouldn't mind having a brewski with him.

ebacon
10-14-2014, 07:59 AM
IMO this is a positive development. It reminds me of the bit that the Vatican astronomer wrote about faith, that faith is what you rely on when you do not have all the answers. The Vatican observatory brings science into the church so that it can better focus on areas that need to rely on faith and put settled areas behind it. In other words the Vatican observatory is an acknowledgement that the church's positions change over time.

There is an article on the Detroit News web site about the church reconsidering its position on gay marriage. In the article a conservative is quoted as asking what their children should now be told.

How about, "We learned something."

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/religion/2014/10/13/vatican-family/17180813/

ebacon
10-14-2014, 08:01 AM
I like this new head mackerel snapper.

I wouldn't mind having a brewski with him.

"Mackerel snapper" :confused:

I can't keep up. :p

HarmanKardon
10-14-2014, 08:23 AM
Thanks for the link ebacon. If we consider how much the Catholic Church lived in the stoneage still some time ago, this is very remarkable. I am convinced that this development could never have happened with a Pope Woytila or a Pope Ratzinger, the last two popes were extremely living in the past. Francis - compared to those two Dinosaurs - is a damned cool dude!!!

JJIII
10-14-2014, 08:41 AM
"Mackerel snapper" :confused:

I can't keep up. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackerel_snapper

bobabode
10-14-2014, 01:47 PM
Thanks for the link ebacon. If we consider how much the Catholic Church lived in the stoneage still some time ago, this is very remarkable. I am convinced that this development could never have happened with a Pope Woytila or a Pope Ratzinger, the last two popes were extremely living in the past. Francis - compared to those two Dinosaurs - is a damned cool dude!!!

The first Jesuit pope is bound and determined to drag the church into the 21st century. Good for him.

Pio1980
10-14-2014, 08:49 PM
"Mackerel snapper" :confused:

I can't keep up. :p

I come from long line of cricket stompers on both sides.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

nailer
10-14-2014, 09:42 PM
Miracle of Seagulls

Dondilion
10-15-2014, 11:11 AM
According to the latest news of "Zeit online" the Vatican is going to revolutionize their attitude towards homosexuality. They say, homosexuals are a treasure and may enrich the Christian community. A corresponding statement will be published next weekend.



Homosexuals have for a long time captured the priesthood.

HarmanKardon
10-15-2014, 01:32 PM
Homosexuals have for a long time captured the priesthood.

Do you suppose this or do you know this?

Pity that I do not understand your comments nailer and Tom Joad.

nailer
10-15-2014, 01:56 PM
Mine's religious and a riff on Steve's cricket post.

HarmanKardon
10-16-2014, 02:21 AM
Sometimes you guys make me feel like an outcast, at least a linguistic one. :(

I started the thread because I am interested in the topic. I am no American, I am no American English native speaker. If you express yourself in "my" thread using enigmatic terms or using comments refering to enigmatic connections it is very, VERY frustrating.

donquixote99
10-16-2014, 10:17 AM
Now now--you aren't going to learn if we dial-back from natural, idiomatic, 'creative' native-speaker prose. Ask if something is unclear--you will get a polite answer. (Or I will clean the clock of anyone who engages in chain-pulling!)

Hmmm..I may need to do some auto-clock-cleaning now....

merrylander
10-16-2014, 10:36 AM
Do you suppose this or do you know this?

Pity that I do not understand your comments nailer and Tom Joad.

That's OK Chris because Don is somewhat confused and unable to distinguish between a homosexual and a pedophile. :)

MrPots
10-16-2014, 10:52 AM
"Mackerel snapper" :confused:

I can't keep up. :p

I had to look it up...

"Mackerel snapper" was once a sectarian slur for Roman Catholics, originating in the United States in the 1850s. It referred to the Catholic discipline of Friday abstinence from red meat and poultry, for which fish was substituted."

People have such a mean and uncalled for way of mocking things that they do not understand or people that are different from them.

I suppose it's simply making up for their own self perceived deficiencies...as if it makes the name caller feel better about him/herself.

I think it's an assholeish practice myself.....

nailer
10-16-2014, 11:04 AM
Sometimes you guys make me feel like an outcast, at least a linguistic one. :(

I started the thread because I am interested in the topic. I am no American, I am no American English native speaker. If you express yourself in "my" thread using enigmatic terms or using comments refering to enigmatic connections it is very, VERY frustrating.

I just Googled "Miracle of Gulls" and got a page of explanations.

Rajoo
10-16-2014, 11:17 AM
Google any word or slang and the answer is just seconds away. Part of the fun in being a part of this forum is trying to decipher what some wordsmiths are really trying to say, but may not have the balls to come out and say it. :)

HarmanKardon
10-16-2014, 01:15 PM
Google any word or slang and the answer is just seconds away. Part of the fun in being a part of this forum is trying to decipher what some wordsmiths are really trying to say, but may not have the balls to come out and say it. :)

It was not my intention to stir the pot that much - anyway, I like your comment BeamOn, thanks.

Topic closed. (I mean the off-topic.)

merrylander
10-16-2014, 03:02 PM
To make my posts clearer I do use two words emanating from my north of England fore bearers; summat = something and nowt = nothing. I am lazy and both have fewer characters. ;)

Tom Joad
10-16-2014, 04:38 PM
It was not my intention to stir the pot that much - anyway, I like your comment BeamOn, thanks.

Topic closed. (I mean the off-topic.)

Sure, and feel free to use any Kraut slang you want too.

I'm always ready to learn new things. :)

bobabode
10-16-2014, 04:46 PM
Ich bin eine rotz bauer. :rolleyes:

Tom Joad
10-16-2014, 04:53 PM
Ich bin eine rotz bauer. :rolleyes:

Are you in any way related To Hank Bauer?

bobabode
10-16-2014, 06:14 PM
Are you in any way related To Hank Bauer?

This dude? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Bauer

I prefer Branch Rickey. ;)

Tom Joad
10-16-2014, 06:51 PM
This dude? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Bauer

I prefer Branch Rickey. ;)

I'm more of a Dodger fan too.

As long as it's the Brooklyn Dodgers.

bobabode
10-16-2014, 07:13 PM
Back on topic, it looks like the Vatican is pulling back a little bit on the verbiage. Sad.

The church needs to modernize itself if it wants to stay relevant.

HarmanKardon
10-17-2014, 02:32 AM
Mrs. Amanpour had an interview this week with a cardinal in Rome, who is from Washington, I forgot his name. Merciless Christiane nailed him on the cross asking for FACTS concerning homosexuality and divorce etc. The cardinal squirmed with embarrassment and refered to the Synod 2015. At least he said that the catholic church starts to realize "the facts of life".

I think the process is at the very beginning. But if we consider how many reactionary hardliners still "stay at the helm" (Oxford dictionary term, I hope I use it correctly) and how extremely slow generally the Vatican responds on any development it is anyway a positive thing.

merrylander
10-17-2014, 08:12 AM
You all need to realize that once men form an organization they tend to regard that organization as the important "thing" and forget the original purpose for which it was formed. This is equally true of most Protestant Churches, Unions, Corporations as well as the Vatican.

In the case of most religions they forget John 4:8

HarmanKardon
10-17-2014, 09:42 AM
I had to look up the verse - that's beautiful. I am no Christ but we can find great stuff in the bible, no doubt about that.

nailer
10-17-2014, 10:44 AM
You all need to realize that once men form an organization they tend to regard that organization as the important "thing" and forget the original purpose for which it was formed. This is equally true of most Protestant Churches, Unions, Corporations as well as the Vatican.

In the case of most religions they forget John 4:8

What was the original purpose of the Roman Catholic Church?

Rajoo
10-17-2014, 10:48 AM
What was the original purpose of the Roman Catholic Church?

To collect art? ;)

donquixote99
10-17-2014, 10:53 AM
What was the original purpose of the Roman Catholic Church?

To practice and advance a religion.
To survive under persecution, and bring an end to it.
To secure and enjoy imperial patronage.

And all that implies.

merrylander
10-17-2014, 11:55 AM
What was the original purpose of the Roman Catholic Church?

I may be mistaken but I thought it was to spread the teachings of Jesus.

HarmanKardon
10-17-2014, 01:20 PM
To collect art? ;)

The original purpose was to gain (political) power, I think.

HarmanKardon
10-17-2014, 01:22 PM
I may be mistaken but I thought it was to spread the teachings of Jesus.

True in the very beginning, but this "organisation" had been corrupted pretty soon by secular interests like money and power.

piece-itpete
10-17-2014, 01:23 PM
As it always does.

Pete

Dondilion
10-17-2014, 04:51 PM
I may be mistaken but I thought it was to spread the teachings of Jesus.

You are not mistaken. And by spreading Christianity protection from evil and
misfortune would follow.

Tom Joad
10-17-2014, 04:55 PM
The original purpose was to gain (political) power, I think.

Nowadays it's to guilt trip you into giving them 10% of your money.

Dondilion
10-17-2014, 04:58 PM
True in the very beginning, but this "organisation" had been corrupted pretty soon by secular interests like money and power.

In the very beginning it was done to preserve power. Constantine was the first
Emperor who envision the useful co-option of Christianity.

Putin in Russia is also a student.

bobabode
10-17-2014, 05:04 PM
To collect art? ;)

The Vatican museum is awesome. ;) I thought the National Cathedral in DC was huge until I walked around St. Peter's.

Rajoo
10-17-2014, 07:30 PM
The Vatican museum is awesome. ;) I thought the National Cathedral in DC was huge until I walked around St. Peter's.

It was a backhanded complement (and a wise ass comment) to the Catholic Church on their art collection. :)

finnbow
10-17-2014, 07:37 PM
The Vatican museum is awesome. ;) I thought the National Cathedral in DC was huge until I walked around St. Peter's.

Indeed it is. The only collection I've seen to compete is the Topkapi Palace in Istanbul.

HarmanKardon
10-18-2014, 02:33 AM
In the very beginning it was done to preserve power. Constantine was the first
Emperor who envision the useful co-option of Christianity.

Putin in Russia is also a student.

No, no, in the VERY beginning the purpose was to spread the teachings of Jesus, I am sure that Rob is thinking of the 10 commandments and the Sermon of the Mount, and Rob is right.

By the way those teachings are amongst the best spirituality has to offer, in my opinion. (I say: spirituality, it became a corrupted misinterpreting religion in the era after Jesus' death.)

merrylander
10-18-2014, 11:47 AM
No, no, in the VERY beginning the purpose was to spread the teachings of Jesus, I am sure that Rob is thinking of the 10 commandments and the Sermon of the Mount, and Rob is right.

By the way those teachings are amongst the best spirituality has to offer, in my opinion. (I say: spirituality, it became a corrupted misinterpreting religion in the era after Jesus' death.)

When a Pharisee attempted to trip up Jesus he asked "Teacher which is the greatest commandment?" He replied You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind. And the second is like unto it, you shall love your neighbour as yourself.

Now if you think about it He just condensed all ten down to two.

Why do we call them commandments, there is no way to enforce them.:)

HarmanKardon
10-18-2014, 01:41 PM
While the Holy Scriptures say: "Thou shalt not.." (sounding like a marching order) Lao-tzu says that is better to do this and not to do that (stressing on "Wu Wei", non-doing) - in a sense of recommendation.

bobabode
10-18-2014, 08:02 PM
Conservative bishops win out.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/bishops-revise-document-on-gays-expect-approval/2014/10/18/ba1c59a4-56c6-11e4-b86d-184ac281388d_story.html?hpid=z1

Tom Joad
10-18-2014, 08:05 PM
I had to look it up...

"Mackerel snapper" was once a sectarian slur for Roman Catholics, originating in the United States in the 1850s. It referred to the Catholic discipline of Friday abstinence from red meat and poultry, for which fish was substituted."

People have such a mean and uncalled for way of mocking things that they do not understand or people that are different from them.

I suppose it's simply making up for their own self perceived deficiencies...as if it makes the name caller feel better about him/herself.

I think it's an assholeish practice myself.....

I have a different theory about ethnic and racial slurs. I think the more they get used, the less powerful they become. My idea is let em rip until they become nothing more than a joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgsyR9kyUy0

Tom Joad
10-18-2014, 08:11 PM
Conservative bishops win out.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/bishops-revise-document-on-gays-expect-approval/2014/10/18/ba1c59a4-56c6-11e4-b86d-184ac281388d_story.html?hpid=z1

I thought the Pope was the Big Kahuna whose word was law. :confused:

bobabode
10-18-2014, 08:46 PM
I thought the Pope was the Big Kahuna whose word was law. :confused:

Nope..

HarmanKardon
10-19-2014, 04:19 AM
A half step forward, one step back.

Hey Vatican, this issue was a lousy sales promotion. Time for you to hibernate again - Good Night!

merrylander
10-19-2014, 09:25 AM
Conservative bishops win out.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/bishops-revise-document-on-gays-expect-approval/2014/10/18/ba1c59a4-56c6-11e4-b86d-184ac281388d_story.html?hpid=z1

The Bishop here in Baltimore is extremely conservative. Slight progress they moved from the 18th century to the 19th.

nailer
10-19-2014, 11:50 AM
They made it to the 18th century? Could've fooled me.

Guess I missed this Enlightenment. :)

donquixote99
10-19-2014, 12:37 PM
Now now. The Jesuits have been in the 19th century for over a hundred years.

sheltiedave
10-19-2014, 04:53 PM
Actually, on average, the Jesuits are usually four or five centuries ahead of the Vatican administration. Usually there are five to ten Jesuits getting excommunicated every decade. The late 1700s were a bad century - the entire order was excommunicated/abolished/suppressed in the 17th century, IIRC. In being the most conservative, their free thinkers also are the most "out there" of all. I have never met a Jebbie without three or four degrees, and a library of over a thousand books.

It is fascinating that Pope Francis wants a church of mercy and love, while the administration wants a church of dogma and moral correctness. The schism is now completely in the open.

Tom Joad
10-19-2014, 04:59 PM
It is fascinating that Pope Francis wants a church of mercy and love, while the administration wants a church of dogma and moral correctness. The schism is now completely in the open.

It's like Obama and the Republicans.

bobabode
10-19-2014, 06:27 PM
Actually, on average, the Jesuits are usually four or five centuries ahead of the Vatican administration. Usually there are five to ten Jesuits getting excommunicated every decade. The late 1700s were a bad century - the entire order was excommunicated/abolished/suppressed in the 17th century, IIRC. In being the most conservative, their free thinkers also are the most "out there" of all. I have never met a Jebbie without three or four degrees, and a library of over a thousand books.

It is fascinating that Pope Francis wants a church of mercy and love, while the administration wants a church of dogma and moral correctness. The schism is now completely in the open.

Sounds right to me.

Rajoo
10-19-2014, 10:54 PM
Power and control trumps being of service to the people.

HarmanKardon
10-20-2014, 02:52 AM
"Fresh (new) ideas"

BlueStreak
10-20-2014, 09:22 AM
The Vatican is never going to "bury" homophobia.

First of all;

How do you "bury" a psychological reaction to anything?

Secondly;

The Vatican is full of self loathing homosexuals who use the anti-gay aspect of their religion to suppress their own dirty little desires. Unfortunately, as the entire world (and the unfortunate choir boys) have seen, it doesn't always work.

Have a Blessed Day!

Dave

merrylander
10-20-2014, 09:43 AM
I thinkyou will find that very few homosexuals are pedophiles, there really is quite a difference.

BlueStreak
10-20-2014, 09:48 AM
I thinkyou will find that very few homosexuals are pedophiles, there really is quite a difference.

Not even pedophiles who seem to target young boys?

Think about that.

Dave

merrylander
10-20-2014, 10:02 AM
It is fascinating that Pope Francis wants a church of mercy and love, while the administration wants a church of dogma and moral correctness. The schism is now completely in the open.

So did Jesus, read the first book of John chapter 4 verse 8.

Also read Paul's letter to the people in Corinth as recorded in first Corinthians chapter 13, all of it with the proper translation of the Greek word Agape. Latin speakers translated it as charitable love hence the "faith, hope and charity" in the King James Bible, but it really should be 'faith, hope and love'.

The proper translation of Agape is a self effacing or unconditional love. The Greeks were smart, they had four words for love;

Phileo - brotherly love

Storge - affectionate love as between a parent and child

Eros - physical love, and of course Agape

C.S. Lewis describes parental love as Need Love because children certainly do need it. Where I grew up two young girls who found no expressed love in their home looked for it elsewhere. It was false love they found and the two cowards deserted them when they got pregnant. What really got me angry at the time was that the parents shipped them off somewhere just at the time when they really needed parental love. Probably just to save embarrassment, one of the girls was a classmate.

barbara
10-20-2014, 10:11 AM
Not even pedophiles who seem to target young boys?



Think about that.



Dave


Pedophiles targeting young boys really doesn't have much to do with homosexuality any more than rape has to do with heterosexuality.

In both cases the act of sex is used as a tool to control and have power over the victim.

HarmanKardon
10-20-2014, 11:09 AM
Pedophiles targeting young boys really doesn't have much to do with homosexuality any more than rape has to do with heterosexuality.

In both cases the act of sex is used as a tool to control and have power over the victim.

Both cases are criminal acts triggerd by inacceptable sexual desires or/and violence delusions.

nailer
10-20-2014, 11:43 AM
Pedophiles targeting young boys really doesn't have much to do with homosexuality any more than rape has to do with heterosexuality.

In both cases the act of sex is used as a tool to control and have power over the victim.

Well said.

BlueStreak
10-20-2014, 04:48 PM
Pedophiles targeting young boys really doesn't have much to do with homosexuality any more than rape has to do with heterosexuality.

In both cases the act of sex is used as a tool to control and have power over the victim.

Well said.

The male victim.

If a man has access to male and female children, but only rapes the male children...................:rolleyes:

No, I'm not saying all homosexuals are pedophiles, that would be absurd. As absurd as it would be to say that no pedophile is gay.

Dave

merrylander
10-21-2014, 12:47 PM
http://faculty.uml.edu/sgallagher/womenallegeabuse.htm

Unfortunately there were both girls and boys subjected to abuse it would seem.