Thousands of Ukrainian troops trapped in Donbas.

[Dondilion]

According to RT thousands of Ukrainian troops are trapped in the Donbas,
Eastern Ukraine.

Does anyone have an independent/less bias source re this situation.

http://rt.com/news/227899-ukraine-troops-debaltsevo-trap/

[finnbow]

According to RT thousands of Ukrainian troops are trapped in the Donbas,
Eastern Ukraine.

Does anyone have an independent/less bias source re this situation.

http://rt.com/news/227899-ukraine-troops-debaltsevo-trap/

Nope. But you couldn't find a more biased source if you tried.;)

[Boreas]

http://uatoday.tv/news/conflict-in-east-ukraine-live-blog-404340.html

[Dondilion]

Nope. But you couldn't find a more biased source if you tried.;)

On Ukraine just as biased as the BBC.

[finnbow]

On Ukraine just as biased as the BBC.

How about USA Today?;)

WASHINGTON — A study from a Pentagon think tank theorizes that Russian President Vladimir Putin has Asperger's syndrome, "an autistic disorder which affects all of his decisions," according to the 2008 report obtained by USA TODAY.

Putin's "neurological development was significantly interrupted in infancy," wrote Brenda Connors, an expert in movement pattern analysis at the U.S. Naval War College in Newport, R.I. Studies of his movement, Connors wrote, reveal "that the Russian President carries a neurological abnormality."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/02/04/putin-aspergers-syndrome-study-pentagon/22855927/

On the serious side, an AP story a few days more recent indicates that Ukrainian troops are fighting to avoid being surrounded.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/5-ukrainian-soldiers-die-in-east-ukraine-fighting/2015/02/02/9bc1e5fe-aab9-11e4-8876-460b1144cbc1_story.html

[Boreas]

On the serious side, an AP story a few days more recent indicates that Ukrainian troops are fighting to avoid being surrounded.

Yes, there have been quite a few reports this week along those lines. The report from RT would seem to be the culmination of the Donbas separatists' efforts to pull the purse strings closed.

Putin has asked that the separatists to open a Humanitarian corridor, presumably leading to Russia. ;)

John

[Dondilion]

Kiev was trying to depopulate the area by use of heavy weaponry. However
many ground troops are still needed and those with the commitment are usually infected with hard right sentiments.

The use of such troops create serious backlash.

The average Ukrainian solders have no desire to fight in the East.

[whell]

I think its just great that we've finally decided that we're at least thinking about honoring our treaty with Ukraine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/world/us-taking-a-fresh-look-at-arming-kiev-forces.html?_r=0

I guess we finally figured out that Poroshenko might have had a point when he observed that he couldn't win a war against Russia with the blankets we've been sending them.

[nailer]

According to RT thousands of Ukrainian troops are trapped in the Donbas,
Eastern Ukraine.

Does anyone have an independent/less bias source re this situation.

http://rt.com/news/227899-ukraine-troops-debaltsevo-trap/

Pinching off a salient that will further consolidate the rebel's position and improve their lines of communication. If a success, I wonder what sanctions the Germans/West will fire back with.

Our MIC1 (Military Industrial Complex) oligarchy would appreciate a new market to explode.

[Dondilion]

I think its just great that we've finally decided that we're at least thinking about honoring our treaty with Ukraine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/world/us-taking-a-fresh-look-at-arming-kiev-forces.html?_r=0

I guess we finally figured out that Poroshenko might have had a point when he observed that he couldn't win a war against Russia with the blankets we've been sending them.

What the Ukraine needs is men willing to fight in the East.

Kiev has surrendered tons of equipment in the East without firing a shot.

Be careful that US military hardware will not be used against Poroshenko.
He is not beloved by the hard right which is the brunt of his strike force.

[finnbow]

I think its just great that we've finally decided that we're at least thinking about honoring our treaty with Ukraine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/world/us-taking-a-fresh-look-at-arming-kiev-forces.html?_r=0

I guess we finally figured out that Poroshenko might have had a point when he observed that he couldn't win a war against Russia with the blankets we've been sending them.

This ain't an easy decision. Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Policy/2015/0205/How-Russia-could-escape-rising-American-pressure-on-Ukraine

[piece-itpete]

I've said before, not backing our promises to Ukraine sure gives rogue states a boost.

Let alone China. It isn't a vacuum.

The whole Aspergers thing, you conspiracy minded folks should note, it's blatant PSYOPs.

In the face of a real fight Russia would flatten Ukraine and both sides know it. The Ukraine's only real hope is the west, and good luck with that. Unless all those lefties listen to one of their bosses:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnJOsOzpz4k

Pete

[Dondilion]

I guess we want to test Russia resolve.

[finnbow]

I've said before, not backing our promises to Ukraine sure gives rogue states a boost.

What promises? We have no treaty obligations with Ukraine.

[piece-itpete]

Don I kinda see why Putins doing it, and I really do think he cares for Russias greatness in his fashion, but why couldn't he have stopped with the Crimea? Is it domestic?

Finn way too convenient. Though I suppose it shows other actors that we can't be trusted, to 'get it in writing'.

Pete

[piece-itpete]

Jeez I miss talking with you guys. Don't worry though Finn, no hugs lol!

Pete

[bobabode]

Jeez I miss talking with you guys. Don't worry though Finn, no hugs lol!

Pete

Not up for a group grope? ;)

[finnbow]

Finn way too convenient. Though I suppose it shows other actors that we can't be trusted, to 'get it in writing'.

Pete

Them not being in NATO is pretty much the whole point.

[Boreas]

What promises? We have no treaty obligations with Ukraine.

They treaty that whell negotiated.

Actually, there is a treaty of sorts, the Butapest Memorandum, but it doesn't cover the current situation or provide for military assistance.

John

[piece-itpete]

We are very good salesmen occasionally :o

Not up for a group grope? ;)

Jenner! https://antifilmschoolsite.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/invasion-of-the-body-snatchers-78-crop-2.jpg

:D

How's it hangin' old dog?

Pete

[Dondilion]

Don I kinda see why Putins doing it, and I really do think he cares for Russias greatness in his fashion, but why couldn't he have stopped with the Crimea? Is it domestic?

Finn way too convenient. Though I suppose it shows other actors that we can't be trusted, to 'get it in writing'.

Pete

They were other players in the East... Loud mouth Russian speaking nationalists, Oligarchs who feel threatened, people who just want to
go to Europe visa free and right wingers who want to prove that they
are the new boss.

Maidan provided an example for the Russian nationalists. Some believe
Putin has total control over this group, I doubt it.

They are a mix bag. Putin whether he wants to or not has to support them
or face domestic scorn.

[finnbow]

...Putin whether he wants to or not has to support them or face domestic scorn.

He richly deserves it, though it often means the end for an autocrat/kleptocrat.

[Dondilion]

He richly deserves it, though it often means the end for an autocrat/kleptocrat.

True, especially for not attempting to diversify the Russian economy.

Medvedev I believed tried to project the idea.

[nailer]

If need be, isn't Medvedev waiting in the wings to clean up Putin's mess?

[Dondilion]

Medvedev Modernization Program

Energy efficency
Nuclear
Space
Information
Medical and Pharma

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medvedev_modernisation_programme

[finnbow]

Medvedev Modernization Program

Energy efficency
Nuclear
Space
Information
Medical and Pharma

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medvedev_modernisation_programme

Their economy is so structurally fucked up that it's doubtful they could become competitive in world markets in anything other than the extractive industries and weapons exports, at least for a generation.

[icenine]

If need be, isn't Medvedev waiting in the wings to clean up Putin's mess?

Someone has to remove Putin first. Like his boy in Syria he is not going down without a massive struggle to save his regime. He is a sociopath in my opinion because he does not care about all of the deaths he has caused in Ukraine. He cares more about being a big fish in his struggling post- Cold War Eastern European pond than about joining the community of nations.


I think Putin would have neutralized Medvedev by now if he was concerned about him taking over.

[Dondilion]

He is a sociopath in my opinion because he does not care about all of the deaths he has caused in Ukraine.

And the cheer leaders at Maidan care about their share of the deaths?

[icenine]

He has been in power since 1999....I do not know why you like defending him.
The community of nations by laying down sanctions have obviously come to the conclusion he is in large part responsible for what is happening in Ukraine.

[Dondilion]

Of all the leaders who have been in power in modern/recent times, Putin is least in "cause of death ratings".

[Boreas]

He has been in power since 1999....I do not know why you like defending him.
The community of nations by laying down sanctions have obviously come to the conclusion he is in large part responsible for what is happening in Ukraine.

Since 1999, the US and their allies are responsible for death and destruction orders of magnitude greater than is Russia. Also, Russia has acted only in areas within their "natural" sphere of influence, while the West has projected military force globally in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Iran and probably a few more countries I can't recall.

The United States represents the pre-eminent threat to global peace and stability in the history of the planet. America is feared and hated throughout much of the world. Frothing at the mouth over Putin is misplaced and misguided.

Finally, the "community of nations" seems a little less communal just now. As I write Kerry is meddling in Kiev and Merkel and Hollande are meeting with Putin. The optics here are clearly designed to show that the two principle European powers are breaking with the US and Britain on Ukraine.

John