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catswiththum
05-11-2015, 12:28 PM
Good for us. We recently landed a new Daimler plant, Boeing here, BMW here - we will be coming to steal your factories soon! ;)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volvo-car-corp-to-build-plant-in-berkeley-county-sc-1431340237

Boreas
05-11-2015, 12:39 PM
Good for us. We recently landed a new Daimler plant, Boeing here, BMW here - we will be coming to steal your factories soon! ;)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volvo-car-corp-to-build-plant-in-berkeley-county-sc-1431340237

Let's hope it works out better for them than their old Nova Scotia plant did.

By the way, Volvo's Chinese now so I think this is the first instance of a major Chinese manufacturer opening a plant here. I guess "Right To Work" South Carolina has even cheaper labor than China these days.

Tom Joad
05-11-2015, 12:40 PM
http://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/politics-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article20628765.html

South Carolina offered about $150 million in incentives to land Volvo, including about $120 million in economic-development bonds that will need final state approval, Hitt said. The state also offered grants for site improvements and tax credits for jobs created.

The company did not have details on pay or skills needed to work at the plant.

$150 million in bribes for 2,000 jobs.

That's $75,000 per job.

And that doesn't include "grants for site improvements and tax credits for jobs created."

And these are are going to pay uh well "we'll have to get back to you on that":rolleyes:

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 12:42 PM
You are so predictable - reminds me of a line from the movie Changing Lanes:

"You know, booze isn't really your drug of choice anyway. You're addicted to chaos. For some of us, it's coke. For some of us, it's bourbon. But you? You got hooked on disaster."

Boreas
05-11-2015, 12:47 PM
You are so predictable - reminds of a line from the movie Changing Lanes:

"You know, booze isn't really your drug of choice anyway. You're addicted to chaos. For some of us, it's coke. For some of us, it's bourbon. But you? You got hooked on disaster."

And for others it's certainty.

Since you didn't reference a particular reply, I don't know which of us you're addressing. That being said, I have no idea how the above applies to either of us or to either of our replies.

Tom Joad
05-11-2015, 01:37 PM
You are so predictable - reminds me of a line from the movie Changing Lanes:

"You know, booze isn't really your drug of choice anyway. You're addicted to chaos. For some of us, it's coke. For some of us, it's bourbon. But you? You got hooked on disaster."

Well Cats why don't you tell us how much Volvo is planning to pay the rank and file workers at this plant and then provide us with a cost benefit analysis that shows us what a great deal it is for South Carolina?

Or do ya'll down there just buy a pig in a poke and consider yourself lucky?

Shit Dude, I get junk mail just about every day offering me great deals that I can't afford to pass up.

But silly me, I just chuck em.

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 01:43 PM
Well Cats why don't you tell us how much Volvo is planning to pay the rank and file workers at this plant and then provide us with a cost benefit analysis that shows us what a great deal it is for South Carolina?

Or do ya'll down there just buy a pig in a poke and consider yourself lucky?

Well, that is a very valid inquiry - I'm not qualified to do it, but I will dig around and see if some reputable outfit (WSJ, Economist, Bloomberg, etc) has done one.

It is a good point - I am also interested to see the net gains for the people/State from Boeing, BMW, Daimler.

If they are bad, I won't fudge them - if they are good, I will try not to crow.

Boreas
05-11-2015, 01:52 PM
Well, that is a very valid inquiry - I'm not qualified to do it, but I will dig around and see if some reputable outfit (WSJ, Economist, Bloomberg, etc) has done one.

It is a good point - I am also interested to see the net gains for the people/State from Boeing, BMW, Daimler.

If they are bad, I won't fudge them - if they are good, I will try not to crow.

BMW has been in Spartanburg for a long enough time to have established a track record. I don't know how long Boeing and Daimler have been there.

Tom Joad
05-11-2015, 01:57 PM
There was a time when auto-workers did really well.

But those days are gone for the most part.

At least here in the US.

The new hires today make about the same money as new hires did back in the 70's.

And that's not adjusted for inflation. :(

Of course in places like South Carolina, where working the register at the Piggly Wiggly for $8.25 an hour is considered a good job, well then it looks pretty good.

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 02:12 PM
Still looking for an independent cost/benefit analysis - this a pretty honest 2 year old "state of the economic State" white paper from Wells Fargo (hate Wells Fargo), but not the company focused analysis I'm looking for.

https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/downloads/pdf/com/insights/economics/regional-reports/South_Carolina_09252013.pdf

Tom Joad
05-11-2015, 02:31 PM
Still looking for an independent cost/benefit analysis - this a pretty honest 2 year old "state of the economic State" white paper from Wells Fargo (hate Wells Fargo), but not the company focused analysis I'm looking for.

https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/downloads/pdf/com/insights/economics/regional-reports/South_Carolina_09252013.pdf

Well, like I said, if the $8.25 an hour checkout girl at the Piggly Wiggly can get on with Volvo at $12.00 an hour it will be a net gain.

But she still won't be able to afford to go to the Dentist.


http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz359/Dog_of_the_Earth/article-2550890-1B2B76E100000578-690_306x423.jpg (http://s843.photobucket.com/user/Dog_of_the_Earth/media/article-2550890-1B2B76E100000578-690_306x423.jpg.html)

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 03:37 PM
Hahahaha - you live on the ragged edge of stereotypes, old boy.

I will have you know your favorite - huffpo - as well as Time, CNN, and Travel and Leisure voted Charleston #1 for beautiful people.

Detroit came in last.

Pretty sure they just wrote Alabama off.

icenine
05-11-2015, 04:33 PM
I was stationed in Charleston from 1988-1991.

The area around the Naval Hospital is pretty rough but did not seem violently dangerous.

I bought a Mustang at Palmetto Ford....it was a 2.3l 4-banger since I could not afford the insurance for a 5.0. It was good on gas but no low end at all had to go up hills like a semi does: in the right lane.

icenine
05-11-2015, 04:34 PM
The bad thing about European cars are the astronomical repair bills.

Rajoo
05-11-2015, 04:55 PM
If this is any indication, for BMW's plant in Greer, SC.

But they’re all in the factory now making $15 an hour — about half of what the typical German autoworker makes.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/bmw-finds-skilled-workers-for-less-at-sc-plant/

So at $75,000+ per job that South Carolina is buying from Volvo, they are footing the first 2+ years of their payroll. And then there is the tax credits, construction handouts etc. Gloat away South Carolinian's. Saab may be next if they are still around.

Edit: $14 - $15/hour seems to be the starting wages at US based auto plants.

Tom Joad
05-11-2015, 05:40 PM
Hahahaha - you live on the ragged edge of stereotypes, old boy.

I will have you know your favorite - huffpo - as well as Time, CNN, and Travel and Leisure voted Charleston #1 for beautiful people.



Oh I'm sure you're right.:rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v_Ih9W0Z3k

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 05:48 PM
Oh I'm sure you're right.:rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v_Ih9W0Z3k

That useless, useless, show - but I guess we were ripe for being exploited for the soap opera crowd.

Thomas Ravenel - "T-Rav," as they call him, the most sorry lump of humanity I have ever met.

State treasurer, busted for coke, stars in low brow idiot parade, and had the gall to run for office again.

It's not like we needed any more caricatures of the brain dead southern male.

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 05:50 PM
I was stationed in Charleston from 1988-1991.

The area around the Naval Hospital is pretty rough but did not seem violently dangerous.

I bought a Mustang at Palmetto Ford....it was a 2.3l 4-banger since I could not afford the insurance for a 5.0. It was good on gas but no low end at all had to go up hills like a semi does: in the right lane.

Palmetto Ford still there, the area around the old Naval Hospital still grim, but improving. North Charleston really had no plan when the Naval Base closed, but it is coming along.

donquixote99
05-11-2015, 06:04 PM
Still looking for an independent cost/benefit analysis - this a pretty honest 2 year old "state of the economic State" white paper from Wells Fargo (hate Wells Fargo), but not the company focused analysis I'm looking for.

https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/downloads/pdf/com/insights/economics/regional-reports/South_Carolina_09252013.pdf

I don't think you'll find one. If the state even did such an analysis, they won't make it public, claiming it has 'competition sensitive and/or Volvo-proprietary' data in it.

And 'independent,' you say? What independent entity do you imagine could and would do such an analysis?

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 06:14 PM
I don't think you'll find one. If the state even did such an analysis, they won't make it public, claiming it has 'competition sensitive and/or Volvo-proprietary' data in it.

And 'independent,' you say? What independent entity do you imagine could and would do such an analysis?

Banks, investment firms, possibly the GAO (depending on if Fed. money was involved at start-up), commercial credit rating agencies - I am sure the work has been done, I'll find it sooner or later.

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 06:21 PM
JStor is my friend.;)

nailer
05-11-2015, 06:42 PM
My first time TDY to Charleston I stayed in the original Citadel.

Is the C-17 base still operating?

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 06:58 PM
My first time TDY to Charleston I stayed in the original Citadel.

Is the C-17 base still operating?

The Embassy Suites! I can't believe they turned the old Citadel into a hotel.
Yes, the C-17s still flying.

I was Air Force before DOD - I haven't seen "TDY" for awhile. :)

Tom Joad
05-11-2015, 07:00 PM
That useless, useless, show - but I guess we were ripe for being exploited for the soap opera crowd.

Thomas Ravenel - "T-Rav," as they call him, the most sorry lump of humanity I have ever met.

State treasurer, busted for coke, stars in low brow idiot parade, and had the gall to run for office again.

It's not like we needed any more caricatures of the brain dead southern male.

I never heard of the show myself, until just a little while ago when I did a quick search on the net looking for some smart assed comeback to throw back at you and found it.

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 07:04 PM
I never heard of the show myself, until just a little while ago when I did a quick search on the net looking for some smart assed comeback to throw back at you and found it.

It is the worse thing since reconstruction.

donquixote99
05-11-2015, 07:18 PM
JStor is my friend.;)

I remain dubious. But I salute your determination and resourcefulness. If anyone can do it, you can!

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 07:21 PM
I remain dubious. But I salute your determination and resourcefulness. If anyone can do it, you can!

There has to be the accounting out there somewhere - as you say, an independent analysis may be difficult to get, especially if it has not been published in an accessible source.

I could very well be barking at nothing, but I would like to see the #s if they can be had.

nailer
05-11-2015, 07:22 PM
It is the worse thing since reconstruction.

Many found the Lost Cause South that emerged after Reconstruction worse.

icenine
05-11-2015, 07:28 PM
Palmetto Ford still there, the area around the old Naval Hospital still grim, but improving. North Charleston really had no plan when the Naval Base closed, but it is coming along.

I used to eat at Shoney's and Captain D's ( I have this friend who once lamented to me he was fired from Captain D's for not being "Captain D" material lol). I used to hit all the strip clubs too...there was one named Three Fat Guys.

Me and my buddy would drive over the bridge out to Isle Of Palms on our motorcycles. I was there for Hugo, and actually saw Warrant at the Flying Dutchman (by mistake of course).

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 07:36 PM
Many found the Lost Cause South that emerged after Reconstruction worse.

Slowly emerging.

The coast of South Carolina is relatively civilized, as is the Greenville area all the way to the north in the foothills.

In between there are pockets of livability, but still many little hamlets rife with inbreeding, white hoods, and the stars and bars.

catswiththum
05-11-2015, 07:38 PM
I used to eat at Shoney's and Captain D's ( I have this friend who once lamented to me he was fired from Captain D's for not being "Captain D" material lol). I used to hit all the strip clubs too...there was one named Three Fat Guys.

Me and my buddy would drive over the bridge out to Isle Of Palms on our motorcycles. I was there for Hugo, and actually saw Warrant at the Flying Dutchmen (by mistake of course).

The Flying Dutchman long gone - I actually flew home before Hugo because my Mom refused to leave her house :rolleyes:

I ended up staying with her - every old oak in the yard uprooted - not one hit the house. :)

icenine
05-11-2015, 09:09 PM
The Taco Bell on Rivers Ave(the street with the Winn Dixie and K-Mart on the opposite side of the Hospital) got completely destroyed.

I was on the 4th floor of the hospital when the eye came through...the building actually swayed back and fourth...it was sort of scary.

Tom Joad
06-21-2015, 08:04 AM
Good for us. We recently landed a new Daimler plant, Boeing here, BMW here - we will be coming to steal your factories soon! ;)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volvo-car-corp-to-build-plant-in-berkeley-county-sc-1431340237

These businesses should rethink locating in South Carolina until that fucking Flag comes down. :mad:

catswiththum
06-21-2015, 08:13 AM
These businesses should rethink locating in South Carolina until that fucking Flag comes down. :mad:

If one of them had the balls to make the credible threat of relocation, it would be gone the next day.

If anything positive comes out of this recent mass murder, it would be to remove that flag and accelerate the movement of the rest of SC out of the dark ages - although in all likelihood kicking and screaming.

I think it is inevitable now - and sooner than later. The combination of recent international business, mass coastal tourism, and this recent abomination exposing for the world the remaining latent bile will force change - the threat of capital flight will force change faster than any appeal for common sense - every time.

nailer
06-21-2015, 08:32 AM
^^^
That bile you're referencing is not all that latent, and it exists nationwide and class wide.

catswiththum
06-21-2015, 09:01 AM
^^^
That bile you're referencing is not all that latent, and it exists nationwide and class wide.

Perhaps "kept from the public eye more than 40 years ago" would have communicated my thoughts more effectively.

There are no longer public lynchings, State sanctioned segregation, or blatant attempts at voter suppression - those violations still occur, but the perpetrators attempt to cloak the "bile" either in tongue twisted attempts at moral and civic justification or simply keeping the offences from public view.

Pio1980
06-21-2015, 09:09 AM
^^^
That bile you're referencing is not all that latent, and it exists nationwide and class wide.

Sadly true 'nuff.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

BlueStreak
06-21-2015, 09:10 AM
Good for us. We recently landed a new Daimler plant, Boeing here, BMW here - we will be coming to steal your factories soon! ;)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volvo-car-corp-to-build-plant-in-berkeley-county-sc-1431340237

One question;

Do Southern States create their own major manufacturing jobs, or do they just take them from someone else?

I can think of a few..........but not many.

Here, in Virginia, they seem to come and go with the exception of Stihl which has been here since 1983, ( I think.).

We lost the Ford plant when it went back to Michigan.

We also lost Federal-Mogul, Huntsman Chemicals and Siemens to Canada and Mexico.

All of those companies were based somewhere else.

We have the shipyards here, but most of that is owned by out of state companies as well (and dependent on federal spending);

BAE Systems, Northrup Grumman, Huntington-Ingalls..........

BlueStreak
06-21-2015, 09:14 AM
If one of them had the balls to make the credible threat of relocation, it would be gone the next day.

If anything positive comes out of this recent mass murder, it would be to remove that flag and accelerate the movement of the rest of SC out of the dark ages - although in all likelihood kicking and screaming.

I think it is inevitable now - and sooner than later. The combination of recent international business, mass coastal tourism, and this recent abomination exposing for the world the remaining latent bile will force change - the threat of capital flight will force change faster than any appeal for common sense - every time.

If the state is offering them sweet deals to locate there and I'm pretty sure they are, they aren't going to say anything.

It's all about the money.

catswiththum
06-21-2015, 09:20 AM
In Charleston, we have several local companies that are international and "home grown."

Blackbaud (fund raising software systems giant) began and remains here. Force Protection (manufactures the MRAP armored vehicle) local. We are becoming an information/tech hub more than a manufacturing center in Charleston. Several local tech/info systems companies support SPAWAR (the Naval Special Weapons Research Lab) here as well as the Naval Nuclear Power School. Many HR/Heath Care/Software firms choosing Charleston for headquarters because of the quality of life/beauty of the city.

The big boys are, however, from "off" - Boeing, Volvo, Mercedes here in the Charleston area and BMW in Greenville at the far north border.

nailer
06-21-2015, 10:56 AM
Perhaps "kept from the public eye more than 40 years ago" would have communicated my thoughts more effectively.

There are no longer public lynchings, State sanctioned segregation, or blatant attempts at voter suppression - those violations still occur, but the perpetrators attempt to cloak the "bile" either in tongue twisted attempts at moral and civic justification or simply keeping the offences from public view.

This type of dissembling is often used by our modern day racists and it is just as often bought off on by people who are not racists in their own eyes. We here in the good old USofA are truly unique in one way in that we enslaved our fellow citizens and most of our founders knew this was wrong. SC was the source of the sedition that gave us the Civil War. I don't think I'm a racist, but there's no way growing up white in America did not impact my perceptions of African Americans. If I were an African American there's no way I'd trust white folk, at least not until I got to know them really well. This is not reverse racism, just good sense.

Pio1980
06-21-2015, 11:19 AM
This type of dissembling is often used by our modern day racists and it is just as often bought off on by people who are not racists in their own eyes. We here in the good old USofA are truly unique in one way in that we enslaved our fellow citizens and most of our founders knew this was wrong. SC was the source of the sedition that gave us the Civil War. I don't think I'm a racist, but there's no way growing up white in America did not impact my perceptions of African Americans. If I were an African American there's no way I'd trust white folk, at least not until I got to know them really well. This is not reverse racism, just good sense.

Quite so.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

catswiththum
06-21-2015, 11:32 AM
Dissembling? By me? How so?

donquixote99
06-21-2015, 11:37 AM
Dissembling? By me? How so?

Don't think he meant you, I think he meant the 'perpetrators' you described.

catswiththum
06-21-2015, 11:38 AM
Don't think he meant you, I think he meant the 'perpetrators' you described.

Ah - I AM getting up in years. :(

nailer
06-21-2015, 11:59 AM
Ah - I AM getting up in years. :(

I don't care what anyone else says, getting old sucks. :)

My take on this flag thing: They celebrate the Battle Flag under which their misled ancestors, most of whom were fooled/coerced/forced into fighting, killed their fellow Americans.

It's no wonder the capitalists' were able to snow most of the working class and just about all of the middle class.

catswiththum
06-21-2015, 12:03 PM
I believe the flag will be on it's way to a museum very soon - they did it in Florida 15 years ago, needs to get done here.

BlueStreak
06-21-2015, 12:12 PM
This type of dissembling is often used by our modern day racists and it is just as often bought off on by people who are not racists in their own eyes. We here in the good old USofA are truly unique in one way in that we enslaved our fellow citizens and most of our founders knew this was wrong. SC was the source of the sedition that gave us the Civil War. I don't think I'm a racist, but there's no way growing up white in America did not impact my perceptions of African Americans. If I were an African American there's no way I'd trust white folk, at least not until I got to know them really well. This is not reverse racism, just good sense.

+1. Excellent sense.

BlueStreak
06-21-2015, 12:13 PM
I believe the flag will be on it's way to a museum very soon - they did it in Florida 15 years ago, needs to get done here.

In some states that flag was retired long ago.........and dragged back out by nostalgic fools. Remember the whole "Heritage not Hate" meme?

merrylander
06-21-2015, 02:00 PM
I don't care what anyone else says, getting old sucks. :)



Tell me about it.:)

Tom Joad
06-21-2015, 02:05 PM
Tell me about it.:)

I'm 68, and I ache all over.

And that's on a good day.

Pio1980
06-21-2015, 02:24 PM
I'm 68, and I ache all over.

And that's on a good day.

U & me, bro'.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

noonereal
06-21-2015, 06:20 PM
Good for us. We recently landed a new Daimler plant, Boeing here, BMW here - we will be coming to steal your factories soon! ;)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volvo-car-corp-to-build-plant-in-berkeley-county-sc-1431340237

Good for you because these employers are paying you crap? Well then enjoy.

Will they fly the confederate flag too?

catswiththum
06-21-2015, 07:29 PM
Good for you because these employers are paying you crap? Well then enjoy.

Will they fly the confederate flag too?

I don't work for any of the above mentioned companies.

I doubt they will fly the Confederate flag.

The wages they will pay are an improvement over the current prevailing wage, and will lift the standard of living for many. Living expenses are also lower in this region than the Northeast or West.

One step at a time.

merrylander
06-22-2015, 07:20 AM
I'm 68, and I ache all over.

And that's on a good day.

Well Tom I'm 84 and when I get up from a chair the first three steps must look funny as hell to anyone watching but after that I'm good to go. Just as well because the driveway is 150 feet long and rises about 3 feet. Makes getting the paper and the mail a bit of a challenge.:)

Pio1980
06-22-2015, 09:45 AM
Well Tom I'm 84 and when I get up from a chair the first three steps must look funny as hell to anyone watching but after that I'm good to go. Just as well because the driveway is 150 feet long and rises about 3 feet. Makes getting the paper and the mail a bit of a challenge.:)

Sometimes I have similar problems getting moving due to arthritis and the usual ravages, tho' once well under way I'm a rolling farce of nature.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Dondilion
06-22-2015, 06:51 PM
Well Tom I'm 84 and when I get up from a chair the first three steps must look funny as hell to anyone watching but after that I'm good to go. Just as well because the driveway is 150 feet long and rises about 3 feet. Makes getting the paper and the mail a bit of a challenge.:)

The wife is 73 and it was extremely depressing to watch how fast she became feeble.

I believe her sudden deteriorated was caused by the number of drugs she
takes for her ailments.

The docs now just throw drugs at seniors until the lawyers alert the public.

Thanks to the lawyers we caught ACTOS early before it became a regimen.

VanishingPoi
06-28-2015, 11:13 AM
I wonder how long they will stay in SC? A few years from now, they will up and move to Mexico and take all that taxpayer funded incentive with em....

catswiththum
06-28-2015, 11:17 AM
I wonder how long they will stay in SC? A few years from now, they will up and move to Mexico and take all that taxpayer funded incentive with em....

Quite possible, even probable, as a variety of factors were a catalyst for the move here - a variety of factors may initiate a move elsewhere at some point.

Nothing is permanent.

VanishingPoi
06-28-2015, 01:36 PM
Quite possible, even probable, as a variety of factors were a catalyst for the move here - a variety of factors may initiate a move elsewhere at some point.

Nothing is permanent.

Yup, deys will up and move right after they screw the people and pollute the surrounding environment dat them folks live in, den dey will go screw somebody else.

VanishingPoi
06-28-2015, 01:38 PM
The wife is 73 and it was extremely depressing to watch how fast she became feeble.

I believe her sudden deteriorated was caused by the number of drugs she
takes for her ailments.

The docs now just throw drugs at seniors until the lawyers alert the public.

Thanks to the lawyers we caught ACTOS early before it became a regimen.

Big Pharma wines and dines the docs to feed that crap to seniors.