Quran vs Bible

[finnbow]

An interesting and entertaining video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEnWw_lH4tQ

This is probably enough to make a Biblethumper's head explode.

[Boreas]

An interesting and entertaining video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEnWw_lH4tQ

This is probably enough to make a Biblethumper's head explode.

The Dutch are so less enlightened than we.

[finnbow]

The Dutch are so less enlightened than we.

Having been to the Netherlands dozens of times over the past 40 years, I've grown very fond of the Dutch people. Friendly, gracious, tolerant and humorous. Good folk.

[bobabode]

Too funny. Someone should do the same in our Bible Belt.

[merrylander]

Having been to the Netherlands dozens of times over the past 40 years, I've grown very fond of the Dutch people. Friendly, gracious, tolerant and humorous. Good folk.

Indeed they treated Florence and me very well, we enjoyed the times we were there.

The film did point out the error of following the Old Testament as most of it was based on tribal laws much the same as Sharia Law is, or Wahhabi is. None of the three has any place in today's society.

[Dondilion]

Indeed they treated Florence and me very well, we enjoyed the times we were there.

The film did point out the error of following the Old Testament as most of it was based on tribal laws much the same as Sharia Law is, or Wahhabi is. None of the three has any place in today's society.

Does the Quran have any revisionist scripture, such as the New Testament scriptures especially the life of Christ with its "turn the cheek" mantra?

[merrylander]

Does the Quran have any revisionist scripture, such as the New Testament scriptures especially the life of Christ with its "turn the cheek" mantra?

Not to my knowledge and it still thinks women are second class people. I don't believe that twelve should be the age of consent.

As to the New Testament look in the first book of John, Chapter 4, verse 8. It was more than 'turn the other cheek'.

[Boreas]

Not to my knowledge and it still thinks women are second class people. I don't believe that twelve should be the age of consent.

What do you mean by "it"? Can an "it" "believe"? Perhaps you mean that doctrine prescribing the subjugation of women can be found in the Quran and that some Muslims practice it. That's very true.

As it happens, the same sorts of things can be found in the Bible and both ultra-conservative Jews and fundamental Christians believe and practice all that too.

Of course, it's also true that there many Jews, Christians and Muslims who firmly reject those teachings but it's not much fun to acknowledge that fact.

[merrylander]

What do you mean by "it"? Can an "it" "believe"? Perhaps you mean that doctrine prescribing the subjugation of women can be found in the Quran and that some Muslims practice it. That's very true.

As it happens, the same sorts of things can be found in the Bible and both ultra-conservative Jews and fundamental Christians believe and practice all that too.

Of course, it's also true that there many Jews, Christians and Muslims who firmly reject those teachings but it's not much fun to acknowledge that fact.

Where in the New Testament? I reject the Old Testament totally.

[Boreas]

Where in the New Testament? I reject the Old Testament totally.

I never said anything about the New Testament. Also, not all Christians reject the OT as you do.

[merrylander]

I never said anything about the New Testament. Also, not all Christians reject the OT as you do.

What other people do is not my problem. I live as I believe that I should and treat others as I would be treated. Rabbi Hillel put it rather succinctly 'That which is distasteful to you do not do unto others - that is the whole law the rest is mere commentary'.

You see John I have studied several beliefs and I think I have learned from them. If others cannot learn there is very little that I can do to help them.

I do know that what I did learn enabled me to give a good woman the happiest years of her life so perhaps that amounts to something.

[donquixote99]

I understand why Hillel said it that way: to most people, evil is distasteful, and repellent, and ugly. But if the guide is only "what is distasteful to you" then people with funny tastes are free to carve on others. I think the guide to right and wrong is internal, born into us, but some people are not on the right track for some reason. We should think about "what other people do," seeing what's regular and what's divergent, as a crosscheck against our own notions.

(This is a more general comment, no bearing on what one should think of the OT. I view the OT as a cultural artifact only.)

[Dondilion]

But if the guide is only "what is distasteful to you" then people with funny tastes are free to carve on others.

Don Q, you are one of the reasons I come to this site; you have that special third eye.

[Boreas]

What other people do is not my problem.

Apparently, you do have a problem with what some other people believe. For instance, it matters to you that some Muslims treat women abominably but, when some Christians and some Jews behave in a similar fashion, it doesn't concern you.

We're talking about injustice here. Injustice is injustice, no matter who perpetrates it or what inspires it.

I live as I believe that I should and treat others as I would be treated.

The treatment of others encompasses how you speak of them. Somehow, I doubt you would wish to be spoken of in the same way that, at every opportunity, you speak of Muslims. If you're going to claim the moral high ground, it's best if you actually occupy it.

[donquixote99]

Don Q, you are one of the reasons I come to this site; you have that special third eye.

Me and Nick Danger, eh? :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B4LqXItX6w

[Boreas]

Me and Nick Danger, eh? :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B4LqXItX6w

Redding? You can't get there from here.

[merrylander]

Apparently, you do have a problem with what some other people believe. For instance, it matters to you that some Muslims treat women abominable but, when some Christians and some Jews behave in a similar fashion, it doesn't concern you.


Because the Muslims in question accosted my wife, otherwise I am indifferent to their conduct. No Christian or Jew ever acted that way toward her.

[Boreas]

Because the Muslims in question accosted my wife, otherwise I am indifferent to their conduct. No Christian or Jew ever acted that way toward her.

And no Christian or Jew ever would? And every other Muslim would?

Rob, you have to look outside your own experience and refuse to draw universal conclusions based on one incident or one individual.

I don't expect to convince you. We're both too old and too set in our ways to change. It's just that our ways differ greatly in some ways that I think are very important.

[merrylander]

John you are reading into my words just what you want to see and not what is on the screen. On five separate occasions Muslim men went out of their way to annoy and even threaten my late wife.

These were to only ones to do so, no Christians, no Jews. I was not speculating on the future, and in any case no one can bother her any more.

I did not draw conclusions as to the future, that all seems to exist in your fertile imagination. Must I like every Muslim, Christian or Jew? Rather unrealistic wouldn't you say?

So perhaps you and DQ can find someone else to nag - though y'all seem to have perfected the art form.

[donquixote99]

Hey, John's post was critical, but I deny nagging altogether. I feel I indeed showed you respect by engaging with your ideas in a substantial and civil way.

[Boreas]

Rob, you have to look outside your own experience and refuse to draw universal conclusions based on one incident or one individual

John you are reading into my words just what you want to see and not what is on the screen. On five separate occasions Muslim men went out of their way to annoy and even threaten my late wife.

Rob, my point is in the bold text above. It doesn't matter whether it's one or five, both vanishingly small numbers whether you compare it to the world population of Muslims or even the number of Muslims you and Florence have interacted with.

These were to only ones to do so, no Christians, no Jews.

That proves nothing. It's like flipping a coin. How it came up the last time, or even the last five times, doesn't affect or predict how it'll come up the next time.

Must I like every Muslim, Christian or Jew? Rather unrealistic wouldn't you say?

No, quite the opposite in fact. There will be some individuals you'll like and some you won't if you treat them as individuals. That's the way it's supposed to work. Of course, if you form an opinion of all members of a group based on negative experience with five individuals, that's just as misguided (and a lot more damaging to all concerned) as liking them all.

[merrylander]

Rob, my point is in the bold text above. It doesn't matter whether it's one or five, both vanishingly small numbers whether you compare it to the world population of Muslims or even the number of Muslims you and Florence have interacted with.

John you have formed an opinion (with little basis in fact) concerning how I will interact with Muslims.

That proves nothing. It's like flipping a coin. How it came up the last time, or even the last five times, doesn't affect or predict how it'll come up the next time.

As there is unlikely to be a "next time" it really is irrelevant. At my age and health I am pretty much of a recluse.

No, quite the opposite in fact. There will be some individuals you'll like and some you won't if you treat them as individuals. That's the way it's supposed to work. Of course, if you form an opinion of all members of a group based on negative experience with five individuals, that's just as misguided (and a lot more damaging to all concerned) as liking them all.

There you go again, how do you know how I treat people? During Florence's recent illness and passing I had occasion to interact with individuals of most every persuasion. Judging by their surnames they were from all over the world. The general opinions (as they were expressed to me personally) was that I am a hopeless romantic and please never change. The last thing on my mind was what religion, if any, to which they subscribed. Prayers were offered for her recovery but for all that was said they could have been praying to the Goddess. But I guess that I will never change votre idee fixe, so I am going back to my novel where my time can be spent more productively, A Dios.

Hmm strange during the time I was typing this I was logged out yet still allowed to enter text.

[bobabode]

Don't go Rob. Please. :(

[merrylander]

Don't go Rob. Please. :(

Oh I am not going from PC just these circular arguments with John as we seem to be talking past each other.:rolleyes:

[bobabode]

Oh I am not going from PC just these circular arguments with John as we seem to be talking past each other.:rolleyes:

As that ol' AK curmudgeon, Sandy, would say, "Kewl!" ;)