TPP: An act of duplicity
 

The article below concludes: That allowing American capital to flow unconditionally abroad can continue to be sold as protecting American workers is more than an act of duplicity;

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinion...ot-people.html

Call your representatives and tell the m to vote "No" on Fast Track.

And vote for Bernie Sanders.

I'm with Obama on this one. The consequences of a TPP are better than the consequences without, IMO.

With China set to become the worlds number one economy by 2030. Our century was the last one this is China's turn.

I see little more the US can do other then try and negotiate. The ship has sailed on protecting the jobs here. But in this agreement for me is another bending of the knee to our bankers. For there is little protection on intellectual rights or patients I've seen so far.


Barney

I wonder if that's another nod to China. In China, there is no equivalent concept of "what I create or possess is mine". If you've ever traveled to China, particularly on business, you may have had the unsettling experience of having your hotel room visited, your personal effects examined, and if you leave any electronics in the room, they will be opened, turned on, examined, and likely scanned or copied.

China is not a part of the deal, though they may be part of the cause. The participating countries are the United States, Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam.

After the last two days at work, I can't see how manufacturing could survive in this country. Seriously. Even the college educated folks in charge don't seem to have any idea what in the hell they are doing, or even care enough to spend time on the factory floor watching what goes on. It's sad but true....... It's a total mess.

Dave

So we are going to make workers more vulnerable to protect banksters from
the new kid on the block...China. :mad:

I guess that was my point. In the next 50 years, the one commodity that I suspect will be taking it on the chin is intellectual property rights, and property rights in general. Sadly, with the rise of China, I suspect is will be easier to move their way on that issue rather than China moving toward protections for property and intellectual property rights.

Well, there's popular sovereignty.

Oh shit!

Fast track was invented to give that short shrift. :D

That Taiwan is not among the participants might just be a clear indication as to who/what this alliance is meant to address.

China tho not a signatory is a major producer and soon to be the number one market. So by being the destination of outsourced jobs and pirated technologies with little redress, any deal made seems to me pointless.

Is it the simple fact China would refuse to comply even if a agreement was reached with them? Or industry in the other countries trying to squeeze the last bit of profit before China's rise to the top?

Barney

On the decline here, and non-existent in China.

That would be...... ummm...... my point.

Hell, it's even an assault on national sovereignty.

TPP accelerates the rate of that loss, by a transfer of sovereignty to transnational corporations, at a time when we should be striving for the restoration of popular sovereignty.

Get real, popular sovereignty is essentially a lie due to how readily the masses can be manipulated.

I'm as real as death.

I don't think anyone would argue that popular sovereignty in the US is strong and intact but the very fact that the masses need to be manipulated is an indication that there's still some vestiges of it left, if only as a concept or as something to be paid lip service.

The point is that TPP would further erode both popular and national sovereignty in favor of corporate sovereignty.

From day one sovereignty in the US has resided in Congress and the President, not the people. The partnering of political/national sovereignty and corporate interests is what American Fascism is all about. I don't think corporations are interested in ruling, i.e. exercising sovereignty. They want to do what they want to do no matter what in order to satiate their insatiable greed. Being able to buy the politicians meets their requirements.

Leadership manipulates followers. When a group finally has enough of being manipulated to their detriment they rebel/protest. The sovereign government uses force and/or appeasement to maintain it's power. If it fails, in the case of revolution, an new boss will arise. "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss."

The president and the legislators are nominally the representatives of the people, our servants by constitutional mandate. We are not theirs. You can argue the functional reality of this 'til the cows come home but popular sovereignty is at the root of our system of government.

And when a corporation has the right to sue a government because laws passed by that government interfere with the corporation's ability to make money in that country, that is a transfer of sovereignty from a nation and its people to that corporation. The compelling interests of a state and its people will then become subservient to the corporate bottom line.

The TPP must be destroyed.

I think this goes in the sig.

See http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=5411 for the basics on how the TPP makes an unaccountable foreign 'tribunal' superior to US law. Corporations are given the ability to claim unlimited compensation from US taxpayers if government policy impacts their 'expected'* profits. This stick will give the corporations more leverage than ever to dictate regulatory policy in areas of corporate finance, labor law, environmental protections, job safety, and anything else.


*that is, estimated profits. And an 'estimate' can be anything. There is nothing more plastic than an estimate. The fix is built-in to these extra-constitutional 'tribunals.'

Thanks for the link Don Q.

After NAFTA Greenville lost the fridge maker Electrolux, even when huge incentives were offered.

The article below view TPP through Greenville's eyes...the pros and cons.

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...tor-plant.html

I would say play around with the data avaible on this site http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=183, if it was not as serious and eye opening.

http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=4300 / http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=4323
http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=3402
http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=3407


http://www.citizen.org/trade-myths

Barney

from the link Don posted...

Most of the text of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which impacts policy areas ranging from intellectual property rights to environmental protections to how corporations settle disputes with government, remains hidden from public view as negotiators work out the final details. President Obama insists that this time will be different.

“You need to tell me what's wrong with this trade agreement, not one that was passed 25 years ago,” he said in a recent speech. “We can't just oppose trade on reflex alone.“

I'm having a hard time reconciling those two statements.:confused:

Your HS civics lesson is indeed one of the key pillars supporting our nation's mythology.

So..... nothing, right?

Trying to do two things at the same time just doesn't work. :o

Had hand written my reply and when transferring to the web left out two key words, mythology became philosophy and didn't proof before posting.

I can see where that might be a problem, seeing as how doing one thing "at the same time" seems to give you a tough time. :)

Doing one thing at the same time would be a remarkable accomplishment for anyone. :D I've little doubt you do it with aplomb. :)

A past master's what I am.

And, as to mythology, a cynic such yourself might argue that mythology is all that holds up any nation state. This being the case, when the mythology is destroyed, so too is the state.

Cynics just find the complications of life irritating, so they try to dismiss everything with four words.

'This too is bullshit.'

Cynicism is the hard shell we grow to protect the romantic within.

If you reread our conversation, you may notice we are basically in ageement. :cool:

Bullshit.

Disappointing!...Seems like we were nursing intellectual notions.

Harry Reid:

Transportation and FISA before TPP.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7208076.html

I'm liking ol' Dirty Harry more and more these days. ;)

I've always liked him. He's a tough cookie and he knows how to play the game.

Plus, the wing nuts hate him! That makes him aces in my book.

Warren: Fast Track could gut Dodd-Frank..

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/05/ob...-warren-cuckoo

I am aghast that Obama is using his 'fuck you I'm a lame duck' moment for this.

I believe that the TPP will be a net plus for the USA, though it will definitely cause some displacement - creative destruction, as it were.