Political Forums - Guaranteed Income as Quantitative Easing

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Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 347341)

...and watch those jobs go somewhere else where there is no tax on automation? It might get harder to tax somethibg when it disappears over time.

Tax that $hit too! If a company outsources make them pay for the workers they used then tossed away.

Barney

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPots (Post 347358)

Uncontrolled and irresponsible breeding are the cause of the labor surplus. The United states has doubled it's population in the past 65 years.

We need to strictly control breeding. Having babies is NOT a right guaranteed by the constitution.

That's a whole other subject but I agree with you.

Both the planet and the US are already overpopulated.

We are well over 300 million right here in the US. I don't know what our max should be for a sustainable existence, but I would guess maybe half that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPots (Post 347359)

I agree.

I like the Game of Thrones style Stake burnings myself.

But the tree huggers would probably get all over my ass about the number of stakes I was using. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 347347)

You are assuming some things here. One is that the guaranteed wage has to be paid for with taxes. But my proposal is to pay for it with created money, as is done with quantitative easing.

Well, we at least agree that QE was an exercise in printing money, but it was always meant to be short term. You guys are proposing turning it into an economic fixture and a lifestyle choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 347347)

Second, you assume that if people don't mostly all work, we won't have enough stuff. That is exactly the economic earthquake now shaking under your very feet--the change away from an economy of scarcity, brought to you by robotics and AI. Mass consumption will not be funded by wages that no one intends to pay because the workers are NOT NEEDED for production. We either maintain the ability to consume by other means, or just let a bunch of people pick garbage at the dumps.

Yes if people don't work, we wont have enough stuff, even the basics like clothing food and water. Since the marketplace of folks who can afford non-essentials shrinks, all of the Type A folks would be likely be required to work in jobs that support the manufacturing and delivery of essentilals. The economy shrinks, the money supply shrinks as the economy shrinks, and you'd be forced to turn to taxation to support paying folks not to work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oerets (Post 347360)

Tax that $hit too! If a company outsources make them pay for the workers they used then tossed away.

Barney

Fine. Then the company moves its operations to a country where the tax structure is less onerous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 347348)

Fortunately, the .01%'s determination to horde maximum profits means we won't have to contend with hyper-inflation when we do this.

We could do with a little hyperinflation. It would help out all these people that are upside down on their mortgages. The banks would hate it. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oerets (Post 347360)

Tax that $hit too! If a company outsources make them pay for the workers they used then tossed away.

Barney

I'm of a mind of a special business tax assessed on businesses who pay their employees so little that those employees need food stamps and other safety net services. Those costs along with an administration penalty should be assessed on those businesses. I'd wager they start paying a living wage pretty damned fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 347368)

Fine. Then the company moves its operations to a country where the tax structure is less onerous.

That's where the guillotines, or my stake burning comes in. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 347367)

Well, we at least agree that QE was an exercise in printing money, but it was always meant to be short term. You guys are proposing turning it into an economic fixture and a lifestyle choice.

Yes if people don't work, we wont have enough stuff, even the basics like clothing food and water. Since the marketplace of folks who can afford non-essentials shrinks, all of the Type A folks would be likely be required to work in jobs that support the manufacturing and delivery of essentilals. The economy shrinks, the money supply shrinks as the economy shrinks, and you'd be forced to turn to taxation to support paying folks not to work.

You've got the whole economics thing backwards. The economy doesn't shrink, it expands because more consumers are spending more money. You're assuming everyone who's now making 40 or 60K a year is going to quit for maybe 20K? Keep in mind this guarantee doesn't do anything to change the economy and people's costs structure. If they have a mortgage, they still have a mortgage. I expect the 20K* guarantee will mostly go to top up people whose unemployment has run out and can't get that much at the part time gigs they are stuck with, or who are stuck on minimun social security, or such like.

*20 K just a notional guess at how much. Maybe less, maybe more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPots (Post 347358)

Oh no! The anti children noise.