Volkswagen - What's got into you???
 

Dear Americans!


Buy American!

Yours sincerely,



Rudolf Diesel

"Corporate ethics" is an oxymoron.

Quite a surprise from VW. Their TDI engines do indeed get fantastic performance and mileage (I rented an Audi A4 TDI on my recent visit to Germany). Now, the reason behind it becomes clear. Hopefully, BMW and Daimler didn't do the same thing.

The number I've seen thrown around was for a fine of $13 billion. :eek:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...921-story.html

"Volkswagen shares tumbled almost 20% Monday, a day after the company's chief executive apologized for having “broken the trust” of its customers for evading U.S. emissions regulations." LATimes

I have seen fines quoted as high as $18 Billion in Europe but that's only a guestimate at this time. Potential financial damage to the company from lawsuits will add to this number; one class action lawsuit is already in the works.

Seems like VW has already admitted to their guilt informally and have suspended the sales of their TDI models in the US. Mind boggling that a company of VW's stature worldwide has to cheat with their emission controls which eventually would have come to light anyway. What were they thinking? this is like cheating on taxes that would not stand up to an audit.

My last two VW's were 1971 & 1975 so I have no recent experience with VW cars.

All I can say is that this story is painfully embarrassing. Volkswagen does not need to do such a CRIMINAL OFFENCE - actually it is nothing else but this. Mr. Winterkorn - clear up your company!

Why the hell would they risk it??
I'd assume someone in upper management somehow made a killing off it before retiring. Then it was someone else's problem.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Ha, Ha, Ha..........!

Follow the money trail, it will lead directly to the guilty parties. Let me guess; It's rich corporate executives. Not "big government" or "liberals" or "unions" or "environmentalists" or garden gnomes or the devil...........

It's just greedy business people f**king up, once again. Surprise, surprise!

(Walks away shaking his head.)

This kind of situation exposes the difficulty of regulating technological advancement.

I have experience in gasoline engine controls (as opposed to diesel, which is what VW is dealing with.)

There are several layers to "regulations". First, there is the law. Second, there are regulations that implement the law. Third, there are procedures that implement the regulations.

Information gets smeared as the knife of progress cuts through that regulatory cake. In the gasoline world I recall government employees getting admonished for relaxing requirements on engine controls. The fact was that the government employees at the ground level were just as smart as we were. In our minds we were merging with the law as fast as we could, and in good faith. Unfortunately our cops got in trouble for working with us.

Did they do wrong? I don't think so. But then again they only got their wrists slapped for dancing with us. No one wants to punish dancers for trying.

IMO a big question in the VW case was whether the US diesel employees had enough time to learn to dance with US diesel regulators. US diesel has always been an under-funded bastard child. IMO, @ $18B, VW is being charged an unconscionable rate for learning to dance in the US.

At the same time we need to recognize that US automakers stayed out of US diesel because the rules were too hard. We were honest.

I think VW needs to understand that writing cheater software will not be tolerated, but at the same time our regulators need to make VW feel comfortable enough to admit difficulties and work with them at phasing in solutions.

None of us want to make a mess of the planet. We all live here.

US paid out $51,000,000.00 in fees for these cars.
http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...922-story.html

They've really screwed the pooch this time!

Sad, really that such a respected and innovative company would stoop to this sort of thing.

This was a deliberate trickery and not some simple fudging.

Michael Horn, Boss of Volkswagen America: "Wir haben es total verbockt!" which means precisely: "We totally fucked up!"

I bet the S.O.B. wouldn't have given a crap if they hadn't been caught! We shouldn't allow one more Hitler Mobile into this country. :mad:
If nothing else, they should be treated like the Confederate flag.

Sorry - I was wrong. He did not say: "We totally fucked up!", he said: "We've totally screwed up!", which is pretty much the same.

But what the hell is a Hitler Mobile? Do you mean the beetle which has been deeply loved by zillions of Amercians for many decades?

Well since they have a poor reliability record VW probably wanted to spare their customers trips to the dealer to deal with emission problems since they have to go there all the time for engine repairs. I thought about a TDI when I saw some on sale here on base but I went with a Honda instead.

I believe that the original reliability issues began with cars assembled in Mexico. I too thought about a TDI wagon but was discouraged (though great mileage) and instead bought an AWD Honda Element for my wife.

I keep hearing about how expensive German designed cars are to maintain.
True or not I do not want to take chances. I think I paid about $3000 for various repairs to my CRV between 2006-2015, and some of those were at the dealer and some where more expensive because I needed it done THAT day.

I would be afraid to think what one trip to a BMW dealer would be.

Sadly there is no such thing as american anymore...

Just payed 527 euros today for the 2 years interval service of my 2004 Golf.

By the way, I own a Toyota and a couple of Chevy's. Also had a Zuki bike. I just buy what I like as long as its a quality vehicle.

I brought an Audi back from Germany when I moved back in 1986. Not only was it expensive to maintain, but electrical problems were frequent.

Moreover, Porsche/Audi/Mercedes/BMW dealers here try to impress upon you how special you are for owning a German car and expect you to reach deeply into your pockets with a privileged smile on your face.

I'd never own anything but a German car in Germany, but I'd never again own one here. In my experience, German cars are nowhere near as reliable as their Japanese counterparts.

I own a 2004 S-500 which I used to drive very infrequently till about four years back since I hated to see it parked in the garage. So within the first year of full time service with less than 30K miles on it, I stop by for coffee on my way to work and as I am driving out of the parking lot I realize that the transmission is staying on first gear. Stuck in first period. So I parked it and drove it in the evening back home very slowly.

Repair cost? $7K+ with a private mechanic since the car was ou of warranty by then. Dealer would have been over $12K. I still love that car though. My other ride is a 2002 Vette with about the same miles but only needed oil changes but tires last less than 30K miles and are very pricey. A very reliable car.

Having worked in a Porsche-Audi dealership and managed a BMW dealership, I can more or less confirm the above. But it's a bit overstated.

Beyond these issues, most German cars are outfitted with all imaginable bells and whistles for the US market to help drive the notion that high cost equals luxury. In Germany, you can buy BMW's with cloth seats, no AC, etc., if you are so inclined. Not so here.

Can you get an M in Germany w/o all the doodads?

What you want is a Schnitzer.

http://www.ac-schnitzer.de/en/bmw-ca...dels/m-models/

I doubt it. But you can (or could in the past, anyway) get a 3 or 5 series BMW or a lower model Benz with a smaller engine and without bells and whistles for a price far cheaper than a gussied up American version would cost.

:(Not purely American, no. We assemble a few things from foreign made parts with a few simple American made parts thrown in to satisfy "parts content" regulation.........But, that's about it.........at best.

I checked the parts content of my '09 Challenger. Geez.:(

Assembled in Canada of parts that come from Mexico, France, Japan, South America, China, Germany............

The engine castings are American made, but sent to Mexico for machining, assembly and testing. Then shipped to Ontario for installation. The door latches have "Made in USA" stamped on them. The body panels were still stamped in Twinsburg, Ohio (Where my father retired from.) until that plant was shut down and dismantled in 2010. I have no idea where they come from now.

And as we all know, Chrysler is owned by Fiat, an Italian company.

So, door latches, raw castings and the Italian owned Dodge logo are what constitutes an "American brand" these days.....:rolleyes:

I remember my Dad telling me sometime in the 1980s; "Well, we have to outsource some parts to keep profits up. That helps protect the remaining American jobs."

Love the guy and still think he was damn sharp........
But, that didn't mean he ALWAYS saw what was really going on.

From the info I have gleaned so far this is out and out fraud by VW. A company I have always thought was one of the good guys. My first car was a 63 Beetle at 16 and still own a 70 Ghia. Close to forty years now.

Hard for me imagine this is an isolated occurrence, just by VW and we will see. No excuse and my only hope the company (VW) one who was close to being the number one manufacturer in the world will see the error and make this right.

Can jail time be next?

Hope so!

Barney

The VW case is getting to be even more interesting since the same technique seems to have been used by US diesel engine manufacturers fifteen years ago to fool the EPA. This is from Daniel Carder an engineer at West Virginia University.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/23/us-usa-volkswagen-researchers-idUSKCN0RM2D720150923"]http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0RM2D720150923[/URL]

Above link is no longer active. Found a new one.

http://www.fullhn.com.s3-website-eu-...node_id=663504

Yeah I think Toyota, Mazda and Honda are hard to beat for the money.
Once I pay off the house I am thinking about an F-150 though a big red one lol.

Let me ask, is a mustache required for all the guys that work in finance?

lol

Just something I remembered from buying my first new car.

In Germany is the price for a no-frills BMW comparable to say buying a Honda Accord or some other mid-price car here?

The environmentally politically incorrect part of me does kind of like the idea of always passing the California smog test. If I had a VW that was running well I would not be in a rush for the recall.

For comparison sake, you can get a BMW 218i in Germany for 27.650,00 € or a Honda Civic with a 1.8L engine (a lesser car, IMO) for 23.390,00 € (including a 19% value added tax that isn't charged on exports or for American service members in Germany). Without VAT, that would be 22,396 € for the 218i (~$25K at current exchange rates).

In the USA, the 2 series smallest engine is a 2.8L and that model starts at $34,850 (plus local sales tax and excise taxes), or about $37K with a 6% tax.

Are Hondas and other non-EU cars subject to tariffs? If so, have Japanese car makers begun making cars in the EU and does that exempt them from tariffs?

I seem to recall that Hondas were made in the UK at one point in a joint venture with the old Leyland. Also Renault and Nissan are intertwined somehow.

So there a BMW is much more competitive and seems to be a wash (as far as price) with the Honda Civic. In other words marketing the Beemer as a marvel of German engineering in the USA is a factor behind the price increase here.

My departed CRV was assembled in the UK at the Swindon plant.
Honda has assembly plants all over the world.

In the US, pretty much all BMW's are considered luxury class cars due to only larger engine choices and all the bells and whistles forcing luxury car pricing. In Germany, they tend to distinguish between a BMW with smaller engine, cloth seats and limited do-dads with those with bigger engines and performance options.

We went to BMW-Welt in Munich last week and saw some pretty extraordinary stuff. Most impressive to me were the new i8 and the M6 Coupe. The M6 Gran Coupé on display was quite something with nearly 30,000 Euros of extras piled upon its base ~130,000 Euro base price.

FWIW, Audi has made a big turnaround in Germany in recent years in terms of prestige, quality and performance. I rented an S-line A4 Avant (station wagon) turbo-diesel and that thing just flew on the Autobahn. It's sweet spot for Autobahn cruising was 160-170 kph (95-100 mph) while getting staggeringly good mileage. Very nice.